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View Full Version : Domination Arena build, anti-warrior/ranger mostly



Patccmoi
18-10-2005, 07:40
Here's a build i tried tonight and i had GREAT success with it. I had incredible survivability compared to most of the time i play domination and we won some crazy games like a 3v4 koreans without a monk where i beat an air elementalist by using WW, Crying her Lightning Surge attempt and wand + WW 90some damage finished her when i was at... 3 hp!

Best part of it honestly was killing warriors. I could KILL most warriors 1v1, which they seem to insist on doing with the other team's mesmers all the time, so just kite them away and trash them far from their team ^^

Ok, here's the build:

16 Domination
11 Inspiration
9 FC

Sig of Midnight
Empathy
Energy Burn
Cry of Frustration
WW
Shame
Ether Feast
Rez

The idea ofc is to start by spreading Empathy as much as you can. It's great, very underrated damage. Imo the current metagame SCREAMS for empathy, i see easily 1/2 to 2/3 warriors using Frenzy in 4v4 AND 8v8. After being ignored for so long, they started thinking that the 2xdamage doesn't matter at all in the end. Empathy says otherwise when they take 64 damage more than once per second (after 3 hits nearly every warrior stops hitting until Frenzy is done!)

Sig of Midnight is your obvious defense skill. Ether Feast to heal your damage. Yes, you stay blinded, no Plague Touch or anything, could always replace Shame with touch if you want more blinding but i prefer versatility to over-specialization. I killed single-handedly monks because of Shame.

So what you do vs warriors (or rangers, work just as well except you have to run to them to blind) is Empathy and they'll start taking damage slowly. Energy Burn to lower their energy and health, and blind. Once blinded, start to spam WW and heal with Feast as much as you can. They CAN'T gain adrenaline. Their energy is already really low and recharging slowly. They're already hurt cause they hit through Empathy, and now you start stacking WW damage on top. They use a Heal Sig/Troll Onguent? Cry. If they hit, they take damage, if they don't they take WW over and over, saving maybe 1 once in a while. And if they hit they're blind anyway.

This strategy worked time and time again on warriors. Keep their energy low, let them weaken themselves through Empathy and Energy Burn, then start your WW spam and Ether Feast all you can. They really can't do anything most of the time, and they're shutdowned AND dying. During that time you can ofc use Empathy on other targets.

Shame is used both to gain a little energy, to prevent Healing Breeze/Hands wars from using it, and mostly to stop monks. This build also works decently vs monks. Shame lasts long, and you WW during that time. A little Energy Burn will drop their energy, and if they cast through Shame usually they hit bottom and now it's wand + WW spam + Cry interrupt on key spells. For most monks you can't really kill them alone, but even in CA usually your team knows how to target a monk.

Against enemy casters, you're not so hot, but you got Energy Burn, Cry, and your WW that can be used too. I also got things like Blood Renewal with Shame on a Dark Bomber and that killed him shortly after.

Against Rangers/Warriors, i soloed more than one with great success. Sometimes i can't really solo them, but i can blind them and with Empathy around and a few Energy Burn they take pretty solid damage overall and my team can mop up.

Also had my GREATEST duel of Mesmer vs Warrior yet. A very good W/N using Spinal Shivers, Plague Touch and Warrior's Endurance with a Icy Blade and me dished it out for a whole game alone without help from teammates, me trying to use my spells on him, him hitting through Empathy but wasn't blinded cause of Plague Touch and would interrupt every spell i used with a normal hit. After a 3some minutes duel where i got below 100 hp about 5 times i won when i finally managed to drop his energy to 0 so he can't plague touch and interrupted his Healing Signet with Cry for my WW to hit through when i was at around 75 hp and bleeding.

Tought i'd share the build, up to now it is the only arena domination build i really appreciated, and one of the few ones i didn't end up dead after 30 sec if i didn't have a monk on my team.

Varian Regalei
18-10-2005, 07:54
It looks decent, but it's not a great build with lots of synergy. Energy Burn/WW alone shouldn't be able to kill any decent monk, and if you're playing mesmer then you should have some good shutdowns as it is monks that create infinite battles, not warriors/rangers. If you want a good build that won't die without a monk on your team, always remember this:


Distortion with either 4 or 12 Illusion
Ether Feast
Spirit of Failure at at least 10 Inspiration
Skill of Choice
Skill of Choice
Skill of Choice
Skill of Choice
Resurrection Signet

You can't go wrong with this template - I include it in every arena build I make. You'd be surprised how powerful just four skills can be, and it forces you to make your skills work together well because of the limited slots.

agentblade
18-10-2005, 08:14
shame alone will not stop a monk completely.. neither does energy burn...

this looks like a decent build but only against warriors..

arredondo
18-10-2005, 09:25
Considering anti-Ranger/Warrior builds are often found in the Illusion line, this is actually pretty good.

Energy Burn works well because it can burn 1/3rd of a Warrior's mana pool. WW is good because it does damage to Wars/Rangers when they can't use a skill under Empathy. Empathy is good because its effects add up over time, or the enemy will stop attacking for a long time - you win both ways. Sig of Midnight adds to WW's success rate, and also allows him to shutdown multiple melee/ranger enemies in a pinch (Empathy on one, SoM on the other and kite). Self heals with EF keeps him from bing a liability on the team since he's in melee range with SoM. Low spell use (except WW) allows him to use CoF instead of settling for the long recharge of Leech Signet.

I agree in that I don't quite see how Monks are slowed significantly (splurge for Backfire instead of Shame and bring Leech of CoF?), but since its mainly for the physical classes, I think its a good build especially considering it's Domination focused.

Patccmoi
18-10-2005, 14:52
As i said, it's anti-ranger/warrior mostly (it really worked just as well vs rangers than warriors, if not better since rangers Troll Onguent has a 10 sec recharge so Cry on it is more significant than on Heal Sig). The fact that it worked vs some monks doesn't make it anti-monk and i'm NOT trying to make it anti-monk either, but it's good SUPPORT vs a monk. Not all mesmers should be designed to shutdown monks, i know monk shutdown builds but it's not what this is.

But don't tell me that Energy Burn + Shame + Feast + WW isn't a good support vs a monk. It destroy their energy. If they're focused, they're forced to cast through Shame which makes them lose MINIMUM 19 energy considering the 14 drain + 5 spell cost. Add Burn and that's 29 energy gone (they likely hit bottom by now anyway) and your energy hardly moved. You can easily fit in 2-3 WW, use Feast to delay their energy a little more. You shut them down for a few second and deal 200some damage, you can also cry their first used skill depending on what it is. No, it won't kill most monks singlehandedly even tough it worked once (the monk was already low on energy at start tough). It's not the point. But you're not alone on your team, and this is pretty solid support vs a monk.

I know about the Distortion/SoF/Ether Feast setup, but i don't find it's what i want all the time. Here i can use 2 defensive skills only, SoM and Ether Feast, instead of 3, which allows me to use more offensive skill and one more point in my main branches since i don't have to put 3 in Illusion (3 is small but it'd still take a point away from another). If i had any defense problem i'd change it, but i really don't, and i much prefer SoM to Distortion/SoF when my build doesn't rely on another elite since it defends your allies too. That would leave me with 4 skills only, and what would i drop? Energy Burn? It's my only 'nearly' unconditional direct damage and one of my only spells decent vs most casters. Empathy? The build revolves around it. Cry? Then how can i prevent rangers/warriors from just healing what i did themselves. WW? It's my main damage source and it actually works pretty well at it, without it they could just hit slowly or wait till i turn my attention on someone else to start hitting and self-heal again without me being able to damage them further. Shame? Then just WHAT do i have left vs monks? Not all builds can afford 3 skills purely on defense/energy management.

The reason why i don't use Backfire is because this would kill my energy. Notice that my only energy heavy skill is Cry and i have NO other energy management skill. Shame acts as a powerful energy drain (or i spam WW on top of it continuously) and 90% of the time i use it it gains me energy instead of costing me. If i use Backfire, i'm at -15E, if i use Shame i'm often at +4, so that's basically a 20E difference on my pool to use the rest, and since i WW a LOT, it's fairly needed. Also needed so i have Cry ready most of the time.

I tought of Leech Signet instead of Cry. It's not a bad idea, but the 45 sec recharge time really sets me back. I also like how Cry adds damage, even if it's only 46 (which is still not that bad) and it has the potential to AOE interrupt.

I might try out your suggestion of Leech/Backfire instead of Shame/Cry and see which i prefer tough currently i'd say i prefer Shame/Cry for the energy drain effect of Shame that can kill a monk's energy pool along with Energy Burn while Backfire only makes them regenerate their energy for 10 seconds. Sure, they don't cast, but they're much more effective when they start casting than after a Shame-Burn-Feast combo. Thx for the suggestion tough, i'll see how it goes.

As for monks creating infinite battles and not warriors/rangers, i don't think that means every mesmer should be anti-monk at all. I still have support vs monks. If you make their warriors/rangers take continuous damage, it forces their monk to either use his energy to heal them (which IS a form of monk-hindrance) or watch them die and then they have absolutely no damage left and the monk will just die eventually.

Smoke and Mist
18-10-2005, 20:26
Empathy is underrated and usually ignored by rangers/warriors. It is the only thing I have found that slows down the quick shooting kindle arrow builds used to kill Mesmers.

This is a good build. When I use a version of this my team usually does well except when I run into the occasional 4 offensive caster teams (very rare) or get targeted by an opposing mesmer.

I deal with opposing mesmers by just moving backwards with the opposing ranger/warrior in tow luring the mesmer into the pack where they usually get killed and I am free to deal with my target without being interfered with. :happy05:

Manusje
18-10-2005, 20:55
I have to agree with Smoke and Mist, it's a great build. I just had two 12 in a row wins, most of them Flawless, and this build helped alot in completing that. Great work, Patccmoi! :happy34:

The Catfish
19-10-2005, 02:34
Very nice as usual. One quick suggestion though: Since you're not using any particular secondary, why not go monk and pack vengeance instead of rez sig? It's affected by FC and will probably be faster than rez sig, while giving them both full health and energy. Plus their next death won't give DP. The downside ofc is the death after 30 secs/removal, but neither should be an issue in CA.

edit: Vengeance lasts 30 secs, not 60

Patccmoi
19-10-2005, 02:43
Very nice as usual. One quick suggestion though: Since you're not using any particular secondary, why not go monk and pack vengeance instead of rez sig? It's affected by FC and will probably be faster than rez sig, while giving them both full health and energy. Plus their next death won't give DP. The downside ofc is the death after 60 secs/removal, but neither should be an issue in CA.

I used Vengeance before, it has its upside and downsides, but overall i prefer Rez Sig. Mostly because i don't always have 10E when i need to rez someone, which happened fairly often.

I tried Backfire/Leech and... i was wrong. This is REALLY stronger, the build definitely improved a lot. Backfire is really versatile, which i liked a lot.

Tried this in TA today a couple of fights (with Archedgar in fact whom i met randomly while wandering around on CA's beach! He was using his Illusionist build from another post) and it worked extremely well. I killed tons of stuff through Backfire (the same W/Mo twice in a game, WTF? lol. I shouldn't kill W/Mos with Backfire...) and since my build isn't that heavy on energy overall, i can use it pretty often. Leech recharge, which scared me, isn't that bad in the end, it's often ready when i need it and its free costs means i don't miss my interrupts more often than with Cry in the end (sometimes i lack energy for Cry even if it was ready).

This is definitely going in my 'standard' builds. My favorite arena build since i started messing around with Crippling Mesmer (which it comboes perfectly with apparently since me and Archedgar made great run). Kinda funny since it relies on Backfire and Empathy, the 2 most basic domination skills.

Smoke and Mist
19-10-2005, 22:24
This is definitely going in my 'standard' builds. My favorite arena build since i started messing around with Crippling Mesmer (which it comboes perfectly with apparently since me and Archedgar made great run). Kinda funny since it relies on Backfire and Empathy, the 2 most basic domination skills.

Were you using backfire and leech for the two matches I managed to be there for (before real life intervined)?

Perhaps we had the one necro either backfired or soul leeched most of the time since he just stood around doing nothing for almost the entire match.

Patccmoi
20-10-2005, 15:18
Were you using backfire and leech for the two matches I managed to be there for (before real life intervined)?

Perhaps we had the one necro either backfired or soul leeched most of the time since he just stood around doing nothing for almost the entire match.

Ya hehe, that's what i was running. Soul Leech + Backfire combo is pretty mean if you can alternate them... target is really taking big damage overtime by just doing its job!

Rizzy
20-10-2005, 16:19
You've not perfected it :|

I notice that shame has a 30 second cooldown, thats far too long.
You only gain 15 energy out of that

Your built has like no way of regaining energy.
Against mesmers.. well :|

Patccmoi
20-10-2005, 17:48
You've not perfected it :|

I notice that shame has a 30 second cooldown, thats far too long.
You only gain 15 energy out of that

Your built has like no way of regaining energy.
Against mesmers.. well :|

Actually the current build doesn't use Shame, it's this:

Sig of Midnight
Leech Signet
Empathy
Backfire
Energy Burn
WW
Ether Feast
Rez

As for energy, i never have any problem. Sure, i can be energy drained and i'll be casting a little less for a short while, not that big a deal really. Sig of Midnight takes no energy. Leech Signet takes no energy and can net me more than an energy tap. Empathy doesn't require lots of energy overall since you cast it every 10 seconds or so. Backfire takes a little more, but again i don't need to cast it every single time it's ready, i use it often enough without any problem. Energy Burn isn't that much energy either and with 20 sec cooldown you don't spam it. Ether Feast and WW are 5 energy and it's not really a problem.

With 3/8 skills requiring no energy and my main hex (Empathy for this build) lasting over 20 seconds at 10E, i really don't lack energy that bad.

No, i'm not immune to energy denial mesmer. But all builds have weaknesses somewhere. If for instance i used Mantra of Recall instead of Sig of Midnight for elite, then it's warriors that'd be eating me alive.