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Lakbay
15-11-2005, 06:53
We were at first skeptical, but once gaile confirmed it, we rejoiced :cool:

Might as well tell the other forums the solid news, discuss. :)

FireballX
15-11-2005, 06:56
OK, let the random speculation begin as to what the class will do or accomplish!

I'm thinking a warrior wearing ranger armor and using an odd mishmash of skills that are derived from both.

kai
15-11-2005, 07:21
Maybe the coolest sword in this game (that disappeared in the beta, and was announced it would come back in an expansion), the shadow blade, will be the assassin's weapon of choice ;)

I like the idea of this class...It surely would bring some interesting class combos...BUT... I still want to see an improved character generation process which lets u choose ur body size and whether ure fat,buff,skinny,or whatever...male chars in this game are completely a minority for a reason: they all look bad :/

Cantos
15-11-2005, 07:23
I will laugh pretty hard if a second profession is confirmed for the expansion called the Druid.

FireballX
15-11-2005, 07:40
If this 'assassin' can go stealth and hide itself from sight I will ram my head into a wall.

the true gangster
15-11-2005, 07:45
Assassin profession, instantly made me think of diablo 2s assassin, and what i liked about it, the katars and claws, please i love these weapons, that is the ONLY think i really want to see in the new profession, because i love those weapons, and i think GW needs more and to hand professions, warrior isnt enough. Also it would make sence for sealth skills, and instant damage, skills purely for finishing kills (ie instant kill if target has <100health, if not you recieve 50 damage and are knocked down)

kai
15-11-2005, 07:49
I'd bet stealth can only be implemented in one of 4 ways in gw:

1) A very short lasting skill
2) As a reduction in the aggro circle
3) An elite skill,gotten in the end of the game, akin to hundred blades, obsidian flesh,and so on...skills that are pretty much useless for the casual player because by the time he got em the game ended.
4) Something some other class can counter with some other skill..most likely rangers will be able to detect it somehow..Why rangers? cus that'd make them lil more welcome into parties in pve lolz. Plus it fits with the whole ranger idea.

Reason I say this is because the game has that unfortunate pvp aspect, which castrates how well they can implement something like stealth.

nightrunner
15-11-2005, 07:50
Hmm... seems like it would be a lot of work to make it work into the teamplay.

MR Psycho Guy
15-11-2005, 07:51
i'd actully like it if they added in the druid (it'd be amazing if you could get some kind of capture form signet which changes into "transform into **blah** " much like the captire signet) and maybe even the paladin from diablo 2, sort of like having a weaker warrior but has a range of shouts or enchantments that affect the whole party in a certain radius, that would make people work more as a party and even to a degree make parties more varied
it would also work by giving the paladin the same base armor and regen as the rangers but giving it other bonuses instead of + armor against elemental

BLAHHH
15-11-2005, 08:09
I'm guessing it'll be a melee version of the current ranger with condition spam and a few final thrust style melee attacks (slow-recharge, high-cost, high-damage). I'm foreseeing lots of A/R or R/A builds dominating the arenas with DoT.

LordShadowblight
15-11-2005, 08:31
In D2 the Assasin class allso had traps, but in GW that is a ranger's skill. If the Assasin will be a hand to hand char what will be the other skill sets? I don't realy want it to be a total rip off of the D2 assasin

Lord Seph
15-11-2005, 09:00
Here is a scan.

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/6964/assassin13yycopy2vl.th.jpg (http://img456.imageshack.us/my.php?image=assassin13yycopy2vl.jpg)

http://img456.imageshack.us/img456/2853/assassin13yycopy9ah.th.jpg (http://img456.imageshack.us/my.php?image=assassin13yycopy9ah.jpg)

Two different links, incase bandwith dies or something.

Madam Lashe
15-11-2005, 09:19
i'd actully like it if they added in the druid (it'd be amazing if you could get some kind of capture form signet which changes into "transform into **blah** " much like the captire signet) and maybe even the paladin from diablo 2, sort of like having a weaker warrior but has a range of shouts or enchantments that affect the whole party in a certain radius, that would make people work more as a party and even to a degree make parties more varied
it would also work by giving the paladin the same base armor and regen as the rangers but giving it other bonuses instead of + armor against elemental



Let's just make it Diablo 3 then, shall we? :P

KaNdeeKiD
15-11-2005, 09:23
Lets not :)

~KaNdeeKiD~

terakhan
15-11-2005, 09:26
Well, I was thwarted in my shouts to keep GW separate from other RPGs. They are going to add an assassin class. My question is, why? Unlike other classes, assassins are a niche class, not a general class.

Think about it. What is an assassin? A killer who targets important people for their own reasons, be they money or some perceived injustice. Who do we have that is important? Three royal families, with like one member left each. Kryta, Ascalon, and Deldrimor.

I won't go on, because the D2/Ragnarok Online/FFXI fanboys/fangirls will just start shouting me down.

But for the sake of all things imaginative, NO KATARS, OR AT LEAST DO THEM CORRECTLY!

Its been a long time since I played D2, but I know that Ragnarok Online did them wrong. http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Katar describes what a katar is. Yet I see many games using them in a wide swinging motion. Its like using a hammer as a stabbing weapon.

I won't stop playing GW because of it, but I am disappointed that they couldnt try a bit harder to keep themselves unique regarding classes. Even the cliches they have now are good.

Dammerung
15-11-2005, 09:33
Assassin is generic but GW needs a melee damage class, warriors are more like a tank than anything else. Either that or give the game a REAL tank, but that'll be pretty crazy since warriors are pretty durable already.

Azura Twilight
15-11-2005, 09:51
I can tell you what I'll be doing the first day of the new chapter.

Azura Twilight: Need a monk for hire? HERE I AM!

You won't be able to do anything the first few weeks with ANY new classes available.

You got my IGN, so I'll start taking reservations now! :lol:

Precha NBK
15-11-2005, 10:01
Thats one of the characters I thought they should make in a thread poll about the next two professions they should create. But you wouldn't call it an assassin, you'd call it like a Ninja or Martial Artist.

This character could speciallize in stealth spells and speed buffs. That would be neat too, to see a spell that shrunk your character or target allies aggro circle, allowing you to sneak past baddies more easily. Or even have a cloaking spell to scout other teams in PvP. They would also specialize in martial arts spells (hand to hand combat) while whelding Katanas, Tantos, or Bow staffs. Kudos to A.Net.

New weapons for this character would be neat as heck, like throwing weapons too. Daggers, throwing stars, ect.

Azura Twilight
15-11-2005, 10:10
I followed the electronic trail to TGH and the reported "confirmed by Gaile" forum post. All I can see is shady evidence in an adult gaming magizine (wtf?) and nothing from Gaile herself. I would take this forum thread with a grain of salt, its highly unlikely that Gaile and A-net would post such major news in a nude gaming girlie magazine.

Like all things, don't always believe what you read. :rolleyes:

Link Boy Hero
15-11-2005, 10:22
Some how i think it will be a huge letdown, for an assassin to actually work he would have to have the ability to sneak up on an person, with the aggro buble and radar this is not a possibilty, and if you were to have the abilty to remove yourself from the radar it would be overpowerful. If she wasn't just trying to throw you a bone, its going to be a watered down class at best.

DeadInside.DOA
15-11-2005, 10:22
I do have to agree that GW's needs another melee damage dealing class. We currently have 6 playable classes 4 of which are casters and a Ranger is for long range and Warrior is the main tank. If its legit it sounds pretty fun even if I've already played this class from other games.

Tiyuri
15-11-2005, 10:24
How original :/
They also have duel weilding by the sounds of it, why not just add bullet time and make all console kiddies happy.

Mawgleah
15-11-2005, 10:34
I followed the electronic trail to TGH and the reported "confirmed by Gaile" forum post. All I can see is shady evidence in an adult gaming magizine (wtf?) and nothing from Gaile herself. I would take this forum thread with a grain of salt, its highly unlikely that Gaile and A-net would post such major news in a nude gaming girlie magazine.

Like all things, don't always believe what you read. :rolleyes:


I checked out the thread and it appears that Gaile herself does confirm the article (unless someone has created a spoof account on that site). She states that the picture is concept art, so it doesn't mean the character will actually look like that upon release. The lore provided seems very interesting.

Xethrion
15-11-2005, 10:54
I checked out the thread and it appears that Gaile herself does confirm the article (unless someone has created a spoof account on that site). She states that the picture is concept art, so it doesn't mean the character will actually look like that upon release. The lore provided seems very interesting.

Yep. I would've provided the link straight to the thread in question in my previous post, but this forum does not allow linking to a competitive site. The initials of the site are TGH. I'm sure you know which site that is. Go see for yourself, Azura, if you're still skeptical :)

This announcement makes me all happy and warm inside! :D
And unfortunately Azura, I believe you're right in your description of what classes will be flooding the game world in the first few days of chapter 2's release. Cos I know I'll be one of them :lol:

Archedgar
15-11-2005, 10:55
Some how i think it will be a huge letdown, for an assassin to actually work he would have to have the ability to sneak up on an person, with the aggro buble and radar this is not a possibilty, and if you were to have the abilty to remove yourself from the radar it would be overpowerful. If she wasn't just trying to throw you a bone, its going to be a watered down class at best.

This seems to be right on the money.

Stealth in general doesn't seem like it would suit guild wars, there isn't much that could be added in PvP by a new class that isn't already done by all the other classes already.

There are just 'so' many DPS classes that you can bring in, that a new one won't be all that spectacular, and for hinderance, it would be broken for the character to be 'better' than mesmers and necromancers, thus, it is necesary for it to be weaker.

In the end, I don't think this will change much, new class combos are always welcome, but, like diablo 2, I don't think the addition of a few new tricks will not change the grand scheme of things. D2x had Druids and Assasins added, they did little to upset PvP, in fact, they were significantly weaker than the existing classes in all cases since they(assasin, druid) didn't particularly excell at anything...

Evil Death
15-11-2005, 11:20
D2x had Druids and Assasins added, they did little to upset PvP, in fact, they were significantly weaker than the existing classes in all cases since they(assasin, druid) didn't particularly excell at anything...

Wrong. Druids are the best tanks in the game because of Oak Sage and the health boost of their wereform. And Trapper Assassins are even more lethal than their GW Ranger counterparts, fearing only creatures with lightning immunity.

Thul Rasha
15-11-2005, 11:35
Judging from the images of the assasin, she will most probably use a new weapon type: throwing knives. And will most probably have skills associated with that.

Speculation of course. Older concept art had dual wielding, and we all know that currently is not in GW ;)

Thul Rasha
15-11-2005, 11:42
I do have to agree that GW's needs another melee damage dealing class. We currently have 6 playable classes 4 of which are casters and a Ranger is for long range and Warrior is the main tank. If its legit it sounds pretty fun even if I've already played this class from other games.

What makes you (and a few others in this thread) think that the assassin will be a melee damage dealing class?

Or are you hoping it will be a martial arts character? Speculating on the route ANet took with the monk, I would find it cheap if they suddenly went back to what everyone would expect of an assassin and make it a bruce lee type of character ;) I think they will go for the sneaky aproach.

Archedgar
15-11-2005, 11:48
Wrong. Druids are the best tanks in the game because of Oak Sage and the health boost of their wereform. And Trapper Assassins are even more lethal than their GW Ranger counterparts, fearing only creatures with lightning immunity.

Druids had nothing on Barbarians who had "Battle Orders" which... combined with their 4 HP base per point in vitality allowed them to reach upwards of 10k HP with self buffers alone.

This is on top of the fact that they had higher innate elemental resistances over the other characters, coupled with higher defense than any character(except MAYBE paladin).

Druids seriously lacked 'defense' and suffered in resists, oak sage was nice, but it wasn't anything new, Battle Orders did the same, and it did it 'better'. Barbs were clearly the best close combat fighters for many reasons, it wasn't even close really....

Of course, people could argue that "Call to Arms" made Barbarian's Battle Orders obscelete, but by that logic one could argue that Wisp Projectors and Heart of the Oak made Oak Sage just as 'obscelete'.


Trap assasins did fairly good damage in large areas, but it was nothing that Nova/Lightning Storm/Lightning Sorc's couldn't do, in fact, sorc could do it much better since they had easy access to teleport which assasins could get with a specialty item only.



The point is, taking D2x as an example, the Barbarian was still the best close quarters fighter and the Sorceress was still the best ranged elemental attacker. Nothing changed.

I suspect this is what will happen with the new profession, probably some new things added to the table, but it will likely be a rather minor(if any kind of) change.

Gangrel
15-11-2005, 12:03
A new class!! I just hope it wont be the kind of "you can't f***ing touch me!" type of stealth. And I sure hope it won't be the only added class (SHAPESHIfTERS FTW!!! :happy34: ).

About 80% of characters in chapter 2 will be the combination of the new classes so yeah monks will be really wanted. But keep in mind they can also implement a totaly new type of healing class since every party in 8vs8 pvp needs at least 2 healers (yeah i know IWAY has no monks, but seriously, IWAYs dont win hoh :happy53: ), and since i did almost every mission in the game with henchies.. I think i'll save my money :)

PS.. I WANT SHAPESHIFTERS!!! :love57:

michaeldt
15-11-2005, 12:17
i wouldn't be surprised to get some other type of protector role which can replace the second monk in any team. adding only damage classes and keeping monks the only protectors and healers would make things very thinly spread on the support side.

as for this assassin, i'm guessing the sneaky but will be a smaller aggro cirlce to allow them to sneak past mobs. how that filters in to PvP i don't know. perhaps it wont :)

i also think the assassin will be high damage but low defence. if so, expect assassin spikers!

Alex Weekes
15-11-2005, 12:44
Hi everyone ... having fun speculating? ;)

Yes, this is legitimate. The Assassin is the first new profession to be announced. Play Magazine have given Guild Wars some great coverage in the past, and we chose them to present the first look at the Assassin.

You'll want to keep your eyes open over the next few months to stay on top of information about the Assassin and more.

Iorek Valr
15-11-2005, 12:44
Money on the other new class is 'Pirate' :D

Then the age old:

Ninja Vs. Pirate

Can be fought out in PvP :lol:

Mawgleah
15-11-2005, 12:47
Thanks for the verification, Alex.

BTW, here's the excerpt from the magazine:

"Introducing Nika, your world-exclusive first look at Guild Wars' next major character profession: the Assassin. With Guild Wars surging past one million registered users in later '05, NCsoft and ArenaNet have a certified smash online hit. Set to debut in the game's massive 2006 expansion, the Assassin profession will add thrilling stealth and combat techniques to Guild Wars' dynamic online gameplay. Nika will represent the assassin in the games popular ongoing storyline and we have another exclusive for Guild Wars fans: the first official guild wars lore for Nika the Assassin, plucked from the pages of the next chapter.

The smell of burning incense wafted through the darkened room, adding a closeness to the already confined quarters...

'Have you sworn your daily fealty to the Conclave?'

Nike knelt on the woven mat covering the hard wood floor and lowered her head in a deep bow. 'Yes Master.'

She took in a long, slow breath, as she had been taught, calming her mind and centering herself for the task ahead.

'Very well. Then remove your mask.'

'Yes, Master,' she replied, lifting herself to a sitting position and pull away the thick silk covering her face.

The Conclave was a very secretive order. Outside of this private, magically warded chamber, she kept her face covered to protect her identity. Even those inside the organization did not reveal the details of their lives to their fellow acolytes. Anonymity was a highly prized asset among those who studied the art of delivering death.

But here, Nika wasnt allow this luxury.

Only those who gave the orders were permitted to see their students' faces. It was a sign of respect-a pledge that the student will not use the skills she learns against her master. Trust was something very few in the Conclave could afford.

A figure darted from one corner of the space to the other, somehow avoiding the light given off by the burning censer. This did not alarm Nika. She had been studying with the Conclave for many years now, and always it was the same. Never did she see the face of the one she called Master. Never could she identify the person who gave her orders.

In the time it took the figure's shadow to shift across the room, a parchment scroll had appeared on the floor. Nika unrolled the paper and examined the antiquated runes scrawled across its surface. Very few people wrote exclusively in the ancient script of this land. It was a dying language, giving way to a blending of the words and customs of all the world's nations.

Nika's home was a land of tremendous trade. It was not uncommon for travelers and merchants from far-off exotic locales to find their way to its bustling, cosmopolitan shores.

But many of those who did never got the chance to leave.

'Are the terms of the proclamation in order?'

Nika's gaze slid over the last few inscriptions, ending on the stamped wax seal of the Conclave and a name-the name of her target.

Nika nodded. 'How am I to find this man?'

'His ship will arrive from Lion's Arch in the morning.'

'Will he be guarded?'

The shadow shifted again, and her master appeared beside the censer. The ornate metalwork on a belt of throwing daggers reflected the censer's dull glow, but the teachers face remained obscured in shadow.

'This man is the leader of a very powerful guild. You can expect him to have many well-trained warriors and spellcasters at his side,' replied her master.

Nika bowed. 'And I am to take only the leader.'

'That is correct. The proclamation is for only the one man.'

'Is there anything else, Master?'

The figure beside the censer disappeared, and a pair of gleaming swords, one long, one short, appeared before Nika.

'Just these.' The master's voice came from behind her.

Nika knew well what this meant. Receiving the weapons she was to use for the task ahead signaled the end of their meeting.

Lifting the blades, one in each hand, she rolled back onto the balls of her feet and came to stand once again.

'Return here when the proclamation has been completed.'

'Yes, Master.' Nika fastened the silk across her face, and with a wisp of smoke, she disappeared, Shadow Stepping from the chamber."

Azura Twilight
15-11-2005, 13:04
Thank you Alex, I have to admit I like hearing things firsthand. Now, I'm excited!! :happy65:

Gaendaal
15-11-2005, 13:20
I remain unconvinced, to be honest. For an "assassin" character to work then it has to be, for want of a better word, "uber". There's never been a satisfactory working of stealth, for instance, in any game that I've played. If it's clicking a button and then becoming invisble for x seconds then it will be rubbish.

How will this work in PvP? By rights, an assassin should be able to creep through the shadows, possibly even climbing walls and using hand/foot claws to travel on the ceiling, drop down behind the target and take them out in one hit no matter the target's health. Anything else isn't an assassin. If this isn't a majorly overpowered character then I don't know what is.

How will it work in PvE? How can you creep up on an enemy leader with henchies following after you and aggroing everything?

I dunno. I hope it works, I doubt it will.

Carnajo
15-11-2005, 13:25
My personal guess is a melee character. Why? Well we alredy have a few ranged classes, (i.e. ranger and elementalist), but only one toe-to-toe character.

I expect the Assasin to be kinda like a melee ranger, i.e. with preperations and the like for melee attacks (poison, cripple, etc.) Probably have quite lower armour level than warrior, but higher "evasion". She'll probably be more susceptible to elemental damage though.

Might have some ranged "weapons" as well, though most likely in the form of skills. I can imagine blinding and poison from smoke or gas bombs.

Cantos
15-11-2005, 13:57
Well I am expecting at least one skill along the lines of Dragon Flight from Diablo 2. Teleport to your targets location and attack them for +45 damage. Something like that. Maybe something you have to charge up first for maximum damage too :lol:

Evil Death
15-11-2005, 13:58
Druids had nothing on Barbarians who had "Battle Orders" which... combined with their 4 HP base per point in vitality allowed them to reach upwards of 10k HP with self buffers alone.

True. On the other foot, Druids would usually be getting around 50% base life leech from Feral Rage and dealing 500% base damage with Fury. With a fast-striking elite weapon, they could frequently regain half their total health in less than 2 seconds without the need for a potion.

michaeldt
15-11-2005, 14:00
Well I am expecting at least one skill along the lines of Dragon Flight from Diablo 2. Teleport to your targets location and attack them for +45 damage. Something like that. Maybe something you have to charge up first for maximum damage too :lol:

Hmm....if that was physical damage, you could stack it with orders and other buffs, curse the target and do a spike of 7 Assassins!! :)

MixedVariety
15-11-2005, 14:12
Well, I was thwarted in my shouts to keep GW separate from other RPGs. They are going to add an assassin class. My question is, why? Unlike other classes, assassins are a niche class, not a general class.

Think about it. What is an assassin? A killer who targets important people for their own reasons, be they money or some perceived injustice. Who do we have that is important? Three royal families, with like one member left each. Kryta, Ascalon, and Deldrimor.

I won't go on, because the D2/Ragnarok Online/FFXI fanboys/fangirls will just start shouting me down.

But for the sake of all things imaginative, NO KATARS, OR AT LEAST DO THEM CORRECTLY!

Its been a long time since I played D2, but I know that Ragnarok Online did them wrong. http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Katar describes what a katar is. Yet I see many games using them in a wide swinging motion. Its like using a hammer as a stabbing weapon.

I won't stop playing GW because of it, but I am disappointed that they couldnt try a bit harder to keep themselves unique regarding classes. Even the cliches they have now are good.

Well, as far as realism is concerned, we have no idea how the assassin will be implemented, nor what weapons it will use (or how) when the actual release comes. Right now it's all speculation. I had to snicker a bit at your worrying about the proper motions used for a katar, when there is so much about this game that transcends logic and science already. Naked monsters dropping items and gold? Characters levitating in the air while casting spells? (Or casting spells at all, for that matter?) Carrying around what must amount to 100-200 kilograms worth of stuff without breaking a sweat?

At any rate, I eagerly look forward to the expansion and the possibilities for new characters. At 75 skills per profession, I'm already amazed at the ingenuity of the developers for their imagination and balancing capabilities. I try to put myself in their place and I doubt I could come up with a dozen or so skills, let alone making them work in concert with other professions in both PvE and PvP fighting.

kung food
15-11-2005, 14:20
The little blurb from the magazine gave a few other suttle hints. Did anyone catch that Nika was from a different nation; described as a bustling port of trade? Sounds a lot like Cathan to me. If this is true then characters in chapter 2 will have a different starting location, and we will have a whole different nation to explore!

slimreb
15-11-2005, 14:44
This very interesting indeed for a new class. I do believe that there is little that they can do for the stealth aspect that would not throw PvP off balance. I mean if someone can totally disappear from your radar (even if there are skills to counter it) if you do not have the expansion how is it going to stay balanced? We have to keep in mind that ANet had stated that people who do not get the Expansion would still be competitive with people who do.

I also believe that this will be in some was a melee character. I say this because inside the short story into the Assassian it says she is handed two swords. So that would imply melee and dual-wielding. I would play this character to be sure just to do something new then test out ideals for some class combos.

On a side note if this is not a melee character I would love to see a Beserker. Barbarians have been done too many times in other games, so give us something like the Beserker. That would be cool, with shouts to increase their attacks and shouts to give other non-Beserker characters in melee a small boost in damage or attack speed.

Tiarhys
15-11-2005, 14:44
This is all very exciting. I cant wait for C2 to come out =D new (cool) professons, new explorable places and new weapons ^_^

guild wars always keeps getting better and better

PS - I liked the infamous 10th update ;o)

Sniperworm
15-11-2005, 15:08
aww nuts, now i'm going to have to delete my ranger/nerco for an Assasin/Ranger. i wonder what their dance will be like :happy65:

Eladain Windshear
15-11-2005, 15:14
Sounds like a lot of fun :) And going by the lore included, its possible anet may implement dual wielding... *cough*tonsofartemisentrericlones*cough* ... I wonder what "shadow step" will turn out to be. Maybe a skill that negates your aggro bubble for a short period of time? I also wonder how this is all gonna work out with PvP. I don't PvP much except GvG's everynow and then, but the thought of an assassin sneaking up to your guild lord while you're busy twatting away at the other team sounds a) scary as hell :P and b) awesome because it'll require some new strategies in PvPing.

Findariel
15-11-2005, 15:23
I agree, GW needed another melee class. I wonder though if the assassin can replace a warrior in the traditional team build.

I also guess that assassin would be an excellent secondary for warriors, making W/A a very dangerous double wielding class.

Perhaps it would make a Me/A IW build a very nice combination too ;)

SilentMoon
15-11-2005, 15:38
If that look is anything to go by, I am SO making a female assassin upon release. Who cares about her skills? :drool:

Mawgleah
15-11-2005, 15:43
If that look is anything to go by, I am SO making a female assassin upon release. Who cares about her skills? :drool:

Here's a hankie :hanky: to sop up the drool, Silent. :lol:

Oren The Destroyer
15-11-2005, 15:48
ok, with the dual wielding thing, it'd prolly be the att for assassin only
like strenght or expertis

my 2 bits

oren

Enosh
15-11-2005, 15:51
I'd bet stealth can only be implemented in one of 4 ways in gw:

1) A very short lasting skill
2) As a reduction in the aggro circle
3) An elite skill,gotten in the end of the game, akin to hundred blades, obsidian flesh,and so on...skills that are pretty much useless for the casual player because by the time he got em the game ended.
4) Something some other class can counter with some other skill..most likely rangers will be able to detect it somehow..Why rangers? cus that'd make them lil more welcome into parties in pve lolz. Plus it fits with the whole ranger idea.

Reason I say this is because the game has that unfortunate pvp aspect, which castrates how well they can implement something like stealth.


I think stealth will be something like this:

for 5-20 (i think) you are invisible. stealth ends if you use a skil
recharge 60s

i think of this skil more like a run away skil not so usefull in pvp but good in pve to run away and rez you party members then. maybealso good to find a target in pvp anduse that finishing skil mentioned on the first page :D

FarbrorVattenmelon
15-11-2005, 16:00
probobly a stance aswell

Finnmac Cool
15-11-2005, 16:02
Why should any "Stealth" attribute turn out to be radically different from current anti-attack skills or evasion stances? Distortion, Dryder's Defences, Throw Dirt, Dodge (etc. etc.) already have potent stealth-like effects and there are already counter-measures to them.

I can't see the designers making the hypothetical "stealth" attribute mean a player is flat-out untargetable. There are plenty of other ways to emulate an assassin's sneakiness.

My final 2p: Shadow Step could just be a variant of Necrotic Traversal that's a bit more useful...

Alex Weekes
15-11-2005, 16:13
If that look is anything to go by, I am SO making a female assassin upon release. Who cares about her skills? :drool:
Oh trust me, she's got plenty of great skills... ;)

And she looks really good in-game, another piece of excellent work from the artists on the dev team.

Der Dokter
15-11-2005, 16:13
This could spell trouble for all the W/Mo runners. :lol:

Sniperworm
15-11-2005, 16:20
This does spell trouble for anyone that likes pixels :lol: They will never get anything done now.

Bearan Stormstrider
15-11-2005, 16:26
Dual wield HAS to be the primary attribute.

I think a nice way to make the assassin useful is to have a melee class using ranger evasion-style stances. It is true that rangers are pretty good at evasion already, with their stances and blind abilities, but Rangers are range damage dealers and the assassins can simply be melee damage instead.

Another cool thing is if they could make assassins a one-hit-kill calss, where the assassin's job is to take out a single target, and be fairly weak besides that. He/she can go in using evasion skills, take the opponent out quickly, and get out without sustaining too much damage. And after that kill they wouldn't be very helpful to the rest of the group until their skills recharge. This means that you're virtually playing a 7 person group with the ability to take out one enemy almost instantly whenever the assassin's skills recharge.

But if that is the case then something would need to be done about a pvp group with 8 assassins who just all do their quick-kill stuff and wipe the other team.

jadenyuki
15-11-2005, 16:43
I agree with most of you. They shouldn't be going into the d2 expasion for different types of characters let alone ones that would be dominating as they are already trying to make the nukers usless. If they do make the assasins too powerfull all that will happen with future updates is that they will make them harder and harder to use so they shouldn't even make them at all. Ive played the original diablo and d2 and enjoyed them both but got way to powerful with all of the groups on there even with the patches that blizzard came out with. If gw wants to come out with a new character they should try to come out with an original one and not copy other rpg games that are already in existance.

Kumaiti
15-11-2005, 17:24
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!
ASSASSINS!! My favorite class from D2... I will love it !!

Sun is in us
15-11-2005, 17:27
This will be very interesting to follow. ANET has done a fantastic job so far designing and "counter" designing the skills.....I will watch in fascination as now "stealth" is rolled out to PVP.

Makes me desire even more an open PVP common area....no faction, no rank, no purpose, but just for the slaughter.....

kinkster
15-11-2005, 17:37
personaly think assasin if done well is a great addition which will bring to the game some skills not in there

- dual wield is a must but probably daggers or faster lower damage melee weapons

- stealth, not invisiblity but smaller agro range

- use of poisons not just typical damage poisons but crippling and slowing type poisons (only 1 at a time)

- need to have armour similar to a ranger or somewhere in middle of warrier and ranger its a hand to hand char must have soem defence but keep in kin to the fact they are sneaky therefore no metal armours.

- different range weapon maybe 1 handed crossbow

so many things can be done to this class without dissrupting the feel or mechanics of the game

Carnajo
15-11-2005, 17:51
My gosh, 1 concept image already people have decided this class is overpowered/underpowered etc.

Also, as for originality, hmm, Warrior, Elementalist, Ranger, Necromancer, Elementalist hmm, it's not like Guild Wars was the most innovative game to start with (I'm not saying it's bad, it's an awesome game). Mesmer is new in name, but not exactly new in concept.

So no, I wouldn't be suprised to see a Druid or Sorceror or some such announced next. A shapeshifter of sorts would be something I wouldn't mind seeing. As would an Echanter of sorts, think someone who uses spells to increase damage, armour, evasion, spell power, attack speed etc. I know, similar to what some of the other classes do, but think about it, no class can improve the armour level of another character directly (other than wards, or am I mistaken?) and while Necro's do have Order spells, thats limited to physical damage, enchanter could have some nice "add + x to y fire/ice/chaos damage" spells and things that boost spells of others (or self) like next spell also causes 66% movement reduction etc.

Hebug
15-11-2005, 17:51
Great. Because of all the PvE whining asking for dual wielding stealth backstab your face characters, now we'll have to deal with them in PvP. Everybody and their mother will play assassins in the ****ty arenas and with the possibility that they can cloak, nobody will ever kill each other. In tombs, they'll invisibly stand on the altar and no hero will ever be able to cap.

I guess they'd make good flag runners in GvG. :D

Gangrel
15-11-2005, 17:53
Oh come on, all you know about the new calss is its name.. You dont know the skills, you dont know the eapons, the style of playing the char, nothing... And you say its a rip of diablo... So they had assasin... Who cares... How many games had a warior clas?? Or a ranger/hunter/bow shooting clas?? Or a MAGE?? Or a healing clas?? Or a necromancer??? I think Anet made a good job at making their classes different then the standards. You can make 4 types of eles from 1 clas, and you can add a second profesion to make it toaly different. You can make a palladyn, a tank or a fast swinging axe slaughter machine out of your warior. And how about a minion master, sac necro or a battery necro? Do you really think they will just make the assasin a ripof from WoW or D2??

Fae Winter
15-11-2005, 17:59
Speculation, aka how I would implement this class:

Stealth: Reduced aggro radius for PvE combined with "active camo" for PvP. While using stealth, the assassin's garb "fills" with the color of the background. Light / shadow effects are then applied normally. This allows you to actually see the assassin, but also to miss them if you're not paying attention. Also has the side-benefit of being most effective in shadows, where there are less light-effects drawn on characters.

Ambush Skills: These will be slightly more powerful than an equivalent attack, but with high skill recharge. The Warrior has no attack skills with 30s+ recharge, but this character could. Possibly inflicting conditions "until healed", or at least with very long duration.

Poison Skills: Some sort of condition with an "end condition" that would make a good covering condition. Something like "festering wound" (reduce max hp by 10%, when festering wound ends, target is diseased for the remaining duration). Some sort of anti-healing condition as well: "system shock" (when healed, target takes X damage, similar to Scourge Healing but on the victim).

Backstab Skills: If Backstab hits from the rear arc, it results in an automatic crit +X damage.

Death Touch: This is a simple repeating DOT hex that follows the target, and hits once per X seconds, similar to a Balthazar's Aura in reverse.

Shadow Evades: Stance. If the Assassin is standing in shadows / darkness, they have a 75% chance to evade.

Shadow Teleports: Assassin teleports (as Consume Corpse) to the nearest shadow.

Distraction: Shrink the Aggro circle of the hexed creature (slightly), to ease pulling smaller groups. This hex is not detected as an attack.

Deadly Silence: Counter for shouts, removes shout effects.

Throat Strike: Disables shout skills for X seconds.

Intrusion: Can open doors, as the Guild Thief. Can "bypass" or climb over walls.

Spot Traps: Gives a visible indicator of ranger traps. Possibly also spirit radius and other fixed AoEs as well.

Demoralize: If Assassin captures the opposing flag, the other team receives an immediate -2% Morale Penalty.

Thrown Weapons: Low damage but very fast. Same range as the ranger's Point-Blank Shot.

Disorient: Preparation. Attack with thrown weapon to apply the Dazed condition. Each time an attack hits, duration is extended (similar to Kinetic Armor).


Just in case I'm wrong on any of these, and A.Net would like to use these ideas, I hereby release all rights and claims of compensation to Arena.Net, blah, blah.

Tactically, in PvP team play, you use the Assassin to get inside the guild base, and open the door from the inside (easier), or in place of a Guild Thief (probably expensive). Capture the flag, either by infiltrating the base and grabbing it when it reappears, or killing the flag runner.

damkel
15-11-2005, 18:13
Dual wield :surprise: stealth :surprise: assassin :surprise:

who cares about the recent update, chapter is a must have now!!

Dragon Lady
15-11-2005, 18:14
Based on the picture, it seems the assassins will be throwing knifes/daggers. Maybe a quick-firing short-range ranger of sorts. Stealth is a must and needs not be overpowered, because stealth will be removed once the assassin starts attacking.

ikra
15-11-2005, 18:18
is this gonna be introduced in the expansion???

Swanky
15-11-2005, 18:20
haha. diablo 2 expansion characters anyone? I think anet said to those blizz employees that they got "just do what you did last time, it seemed to work out" . ;)

Swanky
15-11-2005, 18:22
Speculation, aka how I would implement this class:

* Stealth: Reduced aggro radius for PvE combined with "active camo" for PvP. While using stealth, the assassin's garb "fills" with the color of the background. Light / shadow effects are then applied normally. This allows you to actually see the assassin, but also to miss them if you're not paying attention. Also has the side-benefit of being most effective in shadows, where there are less light-effects drawn on characters.

...etc

heh, those skills sounds strikingly similar to rogue for wow.

Fae Winter
15-11-2005, 18:29
heh, those skills sounds strikingly similar to rogue for wow.

Really? Odd... I played WoW for 2 days with a paladin on a free trial. :) And I thought the rogue's stealth there was true "invisibility", and you had to use a skill (i.e. Perception for humans) to detect them.

Gorani
15-11-2005, 18:32
I´ll take the following guesses:

* Stealth as exclusive Attribute: Like some OP said would be sth like making the aggro circle smaller or makes zu vanish from sight for a short time.

* Dual wield: for fighting with two short weapons (kama, sticks etc) with skills agains special classes (like a counter to warrior, mesmer etc.)

* Thowing weapons: short range high speed knives and darts which will copy some of the ranger skills (poison, cripple etc.)

* Shadow Arts: Includes some sort of "dimension door" skills & combo skills to make dual wield and throwing more effective

To counter the Assassins abilities, every existing class would get some skills to detect the "stealth" mode of the assassin or could counter their special attacks (st. like Tactics shout "I can see you" or "Watchful Eye" Wilderness Survival stance)

I don´t like the "bikini babe" look, sorry folks! Give the Assassin some clothes!

On the other new professions?

I think a Summoner and a Shapeshifter would fit in the "Oriental/Cathan" setting.

Banes Son
15-11-2005, 18:33
Here's a hankie :hanky: to sop up the drool, Silent. :lol:

Ha! Trolling now are we? Don't make me report ya to a Mod! :lol:

actionjack
15-11-2005, 18:36
Can I post a link to my old Assassin concept class?
Wonder if any part of it would come true...

http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=346522&highlight=concept+class+assasin

On stealth... won't it be cool to have a stealth skill that would make you go poof in a smoke, much like those black spirit monster thing ? (forgot the name of those) And you would go into a zone where it is all dark and black, and blury like you are drunk. (this would add in the balance as well, making it a bit harder to orient your movement while in the stealth mode). And you Poof back to normal in another smoke puff.

jedi mad hatter
15-11-2005, 18:43
I suspect stealth might in the following ways:

* stance: where they enter stealth, and enemies have a chance to miss them

* primary attribute: where every point in Stealth grants 1-2% miss when they're attacked

* similar to Mist Form: where they use stealth as a way of exiting and entering combat, can't take damage and can't deal it for a certain time period, so it allows them to set themselves up for a backstab or something.

Also, I'd be interested to see if they use adrenaline-based skills. Lose all adrenaline to perform Final Thrust-like attacks, and the like.

S u o m i
15-11-2005, 18:44
my thoughts: throwing knives interrupt, can maybe make your foes crippled if theyre running away from you. About stances if they have, maybe sumthing like u move 5% faster, attack like 10% faster and do about 25% more damage in melee... ambush skills, makes enemy knocked down ect. for 2-5 seconds.. sumthing like that. I hope we'll hear from the professions soon and mroe about the assasin (maybe ingame pictures, pls ANet? :D )

Fownkaymownkay
15-11-2005, 18:45
i have a feeling... this will dissapoint.


and i hope they take it back and put in some other class. i just dont want this turning out like DII. i swear to god. if we have druids. i will kill somebody.
itll be such a rip from DII...ARGH. or maybe they can hold it back like the necro 15k tormentors and put in some better class.


FM

Chislev
15-11-2005, 18:47
Just a question.... What use could this class have for PVE?

For all i have read, everything points to a pwning PvP class but useless for PVE.

elona scissorhands
15-11-2005, 18:53
I think an assasin idea would be really cool. It would be awesome if they made it have a skill where its map blip would disapear and you couldnt find it by pressing the alt key.that would allow for awesome ambushes, and of course for my very loser-ish self a chance to play hide and seek without the aid of a map. I will definately first start an assasin when i get the ezpansion. I bet there will be a druid too because the classes and skill's have pretty much followed diablo 2 perfectly. Although they seem to have incorporated a amazon and a druid into the ranger. I think they should keep thge other class a secret. Then again, it would be exciting but it probably wouldnt be the greatest because they wouldnt have had any use feed back on the character.

Moots Mcboots
15-11-2005, 18:53
Kinda a let down really, I was hoping they'd come out with a more original class.

Well theres always the other new classes to look forward to. Just better not be a ninja. And it better be a pirate. :happy53:

Fae Winter
15-11-2005, 18:54
Just a question.... What use could this class have for PVE?

Assuming they have a reduced aggro circle and the "Distraction" ability I mentioned, they would be helpful both for pulling (distract the other, non-pulled monsters, to keep them from coming along with the pulled critter) and for setting traps between the monsters and the party. The Ranger would still have a role, since the Assassin's short range makes it harder for them to pull solo.

Plus being a damage dealer, of course.

Mawgleah
15-11-2005, 18:56
Just a question.... What use could this class have for PVE?

For all i have read, everything points to a pwning PvP class but useless for PVE.

I have no foreknowledge, but based on what ArenaNet has done in the past, I do not think the Assassin class will be any more "uber" than the current ones and will be as useful in PvE as it will be in PvP.

The reality of this characters skills may not be anything like most of the speculation in this thread. Everything thus far is pretty much speculation, even with the subtle hints given in the lore. No one should be getting their expectations set on anything, as we'll just have to wait and see what ArenaNet has in store for us.

Icy Spicy
15-11-2005, 19:10
well i dont think its ganna be super special, if its too good then everyone will use it, if its usless then no one will, i think its ganna be more like a Warrior/Ranger type thing, we only have 1 melee class, but 5 ranged classes... but from the picture it looks kinda ranged too

and i dont think it should have the ability to change the arrgo stuff and be invisible, its useless in PvP anyway, and invisible is just too much... probably fast attack, like mesmer fast casting

Icarus Tyler
15-11-2005, 19:17
Woo-hoo, this will be cool! Think of all the possible new classes, all the combinations!

The balancing must surely have been complicated, but I guess it is worth it.

Tralus
15-11-2005, 19:22
I´ll take the following guesses:

* Stealth as exclusive Attribute: Like some OP said would be sth like making the aggro circle smaller or makes zu vanish from sight for a short time.

* Dual wield: for fighting with two short weapons (kama, sticks etc) with skills agains special classes (like a counter to warrior, mesmer etc.)

* Thowing weapons: short range high speed knives and darts which will copy some of the ranger skills (poison, cripple etc.)

* Shadow Arts: Includes some sort of "dimension door" skills & combo skills to make dual wield and throwing more effective

To counter the Assassins abilities, every existing class would get some skills to detect the "stealth" mode of the assassin or could counter their special attacks (st. like Tactics shout "I can see you" or "Watchful Eye" Wilderness Survival stance)

I don´t like the "bikini babe" look, sorry folks! Give the Assassin some clothes!

On the other new professions?

I think a Summoner and a Shapeshifter would fit in the "Oriental/Cathan" setting.

Yes, so now every class will have to bring a counter onto the field in PVP to SPECIFICALLY counter assassins, gg. What a wonderful idea, so balanced =p.

Things like this is exactly why I dread Anet implementing the Assassin class.
You have half a million screaming ninja fanboys who want some overpowered p.o.s in addition to the fact that this class is notorious in other games for being hard to balance correctly. This is especially devastating since PvP plays such a major role in this game. We already have a high dps/spike melee class, the warrior, we don't need another clone or worse something that will make another class obselete.

kai
15-11-2005, 19:29
Oh trust me, she's got plenty of great skills... ;)

And she looks really good in-game, another piece of excellent work from the artists on the dev team.

Oh I dont doubt SHE looks good in game... But what about MALE assassins? Is chapter 2 continuing the GW traditions of awesome looking animation,armor and looks for females and terrible animation, armor and looks for males? We got a fat balding monk in need of a lyposuction, a warrior that needs a completele facial reconstruction and went too heavy on the steroids, an ele that spent one too many nights drunk at a rave party, a necro that looks like he sleeps inside a body bag indeed, and male rangers that look like redneck bums. I wont even mention the mesmer. Can you PLEASE tell me if males have a better design this time around,and not everyone will pick female chars this time? Cus like, some of us like to roleplay as our char, and hence would like the option of picking a male char. Thanks.

Kenagalaz
15-11-2005, 19:29
I strongly doubt stealth will be an attribute (how do you pve and pvp balance it). I know this is a very bad example, but bare with me. did D2 assassins have stealth type skill. I actually don't remember

Zamyle
15-11-2005, 19:47
I just had an epiphany :idea: Assuming the Assasin will have some kind of ability to disappear from the radar. They could make a new kind of PvP match where you don't fight you just play hide and seek using the assassin. No faction of course, just a fun distraction from the day to day slaughter of mahaim of PvP.

Flamers, ready set go!!!

Kumaiti
15-11-2005, 19:50
I strongly doubt stealth will be an attribute (how do you pve and pvp balance it). I know this is a very bad example, but bare with me. did D2 assassins have stealth type skill. I actually don't remember

agreed.

But just for the records, assassins had Cloak of Shadows

KhaineDarkhart
15-11-2005, 19:50
If they want to go to a far away land of trading to go get assasin .... well i can sure think of another class that would HAVE to be around that same area ....

you dont have a land with tons of trading and ships without

PIRATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ostriig
15-11-2005, 19:53
I strongly doubt stealth will be an attribute (how do you pve and pvp balance it). I know this is a very bad example, but bare with me. did D2 assassins have stealth type skill. I actually don't remember

The words "Shadow Stepping", as they are written in the last line of the text, look like a skill to me. And it sounds like something related to stealth. Just a guess.

Flascene
15-11-2005, 19:57
Ok guys......think about this...with all of what we know about GW now....where on earth would an assasin fit in the world of tyria? Thats like pouring oil in water...they jus dont go together. This class will probably be an odd ball class that will get nerfed hard, and become an outcast.

I may be the only one who thinks this but i dont see this class fitting into GW. Arenanet has just took a left turn down cliche lane with this class.

Can anyone actually see "assasin" fitting anywhere in tyria? even with the new areas comming i think it will be kinda odd building a story around them, like the other chars have. In just about almost every other fighting game/rpg theres some form of an assassin weather it be ninja or whatever. I think ArenaNet could have been a lot more original than this......ALOT MORE.

CKaz
15-11-2005, 19:59
The little blurb from the magazine gave a few other suttle hints. Did anyone catch that Nika was from a different nation; described as a bustling port of trade? Sounds a lot like Cathan to me. If this is true then characters in chapter 2 will have a different starting location, and we will have a whole different nation to explore!

I hope to gawd it means I won't have to take another character through burnt out Ascalon. They need another start spot to kick PvE in the pants, this might be 'route2'. Question is can any/all chars go 'route2' too?

And of course whatever the other class is (if there is one) probably goes here too.. this continents local healer flavor. Has to be a shaman, druid, something like that probably - end the monk dominance.

But I agree the naming choice is a bit goofy.
Martial artist or something to the like would have been better (tho they made a monk look a lot like one so maybe that's the issue)

I had a friend playing the game wish for thief/assassin.
I argued (and still think) you can make one with the two class choices and your skill mix.

I guess the expansion will have to add all that stealth/perception stuff and throw the other classes some kind of bone to also detect or maybe sneak around a little bit as well. Eh.. seems odd as other mentioned henchies and stuff too.. guess we might have the ultimate new runner on the way :uhhuh:

A/W or A/Mo the better runner? You decide.

So what will its 'special line' be?
Stealth which innately lowers the aggro circle?
A dodge which decrease any striking (melee, bow, wand) or even targetted (lightning orb) chance hits?
Points to up adrenalines effect or some kind of powering up/look out strike?

Maybe a class to use adrenaline and preparations.. another trapper too?

hmm.. not sure if I'm overjoyed we're adding stealth to the mix, I hope we won't be forced to have A/ or /A to have any detect/stealth capabilities at all

guess we'll see.. and yeah it's smacking of D2 aint it?
bring out my werebear druid.. rawwr!

Sun is in us
15-11-2005, 20:04
I have no foreknowledge, but based on what ArenaNet has done in the past, I do not think the Assassin class will be any more "uber" than the current ones and will be as useful in PvE as it will be in PvP.

The reality of this characters skills may not be anything like most of the speculation in this thread. Everything thus far is pretty much speculation, even with the subtle hints given in the lore. No one should be getting their expectations set on anything, as we'll just have to wait and see what ArenaNet has in store for us.

Shadow Stepping off......

Agreed. Shadow Step may not be stealth....but just a percentage to miss, or makes it so they can only be targetted in half the normal radius (like some spells) etc. Personally I hope it is something creative and not just another type of "Blurred Vision" or "Shadow of Fear" percentage chance reduction.

I can't believe that ANET has spent all these years developing the pretty darn good balance set of skills they have now, just to suddenly lose their collective minds and make a character that implodes the game.

Vexed Arcanist
15-11-2005, 20:05
If this 'assassin' can go stealth and hide itself from sight I will ram my head into a wall.

Nothing was cooler in DAoC than the Sneak ability! Forget Hide!

Sneak + Backstab FTW!

sophistry
15-11-2005, 20:06
Im gona assume its gona be the physical damage version of an air spiker as for if its going to be short ranged or melee who knows if it does have melee attacks im gona say you will be seeing alot of riposte like skills and glady defence like stances

Sniperworm
15-11-2005, 20:08
you guys are getting ahead of yourselfs, i would sit back and wait for more news on Assasins before trying to predict everything about them down to their cloths.
Some of your ideas on stealth is extremly over powered, would Anet really make it so would need a certain skill just to see them?

Kenagalaz
15-11-2005, 20:13
The words "Shadow Stepping", as they are written in the last line of the text, look like a skill to me. And it sounds like something related to stealth. Just a guess.

Sounds like modified Tactics to me, but i've got nothing.

Vexed Arcanist
15-11-2005, 20:13
you guys are getting ahead of yourselfs, i would sit back and wait for more news on Assasins before trying to predict everything about them down to their cloths.
Some of your ideas on stealth is extremly over powered, would Anet really make it so would need a certain skill just to see them?

How about Anet would make it so they need a certain skill in order to work other skills? Backstab would only work from Sneak, and Sneak can not occur while in the front of a character's vision.

Mawgleah
15-11-2005, 20:14
I hope to gawd it means I won't have to take another character through burnt out Ascalon. They need another start spot to kick PvE in the pants, this might be 'route2'. Question is can any/all chars go 'route2' too?

If you are speaking about beginning the new classes at pre-searing, I hope not either. I was under the impression that your currently developed characters will be able to continue. I do want to try the new class, and if I HAVE to start it up in pre-searing I guess I will.....but I sure hope I don't have to.

Celosia
15-11-2005, 20:15
Well, I must say, an assassin class looks like a world of fun! Now I just have to hope that Chapter Two brings more character slots -- Third account anyone? :P

But yes, yet another goodie to look forward to in the future of Guild Wars! :thumbsup:

Carnajo
15-11-2005, 20:17
Just a question.... What use could this class have for PVE?

For all i have read, everything points to a pwning PvP class but useless for PVE.

You do know that so far pretty much everything in this threas is just user speculation and can turn out to pure crap?

Everything points to a pwning PvP class? Um, so far all we know is that the next chapter will contain a proffesion called Assasin and we have a concept picture which could mean nothing. Other than that, everything about disappearing or backstabing or shadow's or whatnot is just the fancy of the posters.

Xandlyn
15-11-2005, 20:22
I am excited. I used to play DII and my favorite character was the assassin. I just hope they don't copy the class completely from DII...I'm sure they won't. So yeah if they don't give us extra character slots...then I'll say a nice farewell to my warrior. :happy34:

Vexed Arcanist
15-11-2005, 20:22
If you are speaking about beginning the new classes at pre-searing, I hope not either. I was under the impression that your currently developed characters will be able to continue. I do want to try the new class, and if I HAVE to start it up in pre-searing I guess I will.....but I sure hope I don't have to.

While this is off topic I would speculate that given the fact the expansion is further into the storyline you would start at the point of the new storyline. Now, personally, I wouldn't mind a level 1 and working up vs. a level 20 off the cuff. I would mind working through the same game I have done over 8 times already.

Kenagalaz
15-11-2005, 20:22
How about Anet would make it so they need a certain skill in order to work other skills? Backstab would only work from Sneak, and Sneak can not occur while in the front of a character's vision.

You guys are aware that you already get a damage modifier bonus if you attack a character's back, right? this is why turning your back and running and walking backwards have different speeds.


If you are speaking about beginning the new classes at pre-searing, I hope not either. I was under the impression that your currently developed characters will be able to continue. I do want to try the new class, and if I HAVE to start it up in pre-searing I guess I will.....but I sure hope I don't have to.

I actually had to spam to ask Gaile about this at the very last Mad King event.
From what I understand, the expansion is ment for lvl 1 characters to start anew in. However, your lvl 20 characters will be able to carry over there if you want... I guess that means you'll be lvl 20 in a lvl 1 zone right? i guess they could have a "presear" versions of Cantha. (i just speculate the expansion's takes place in a place called Cantha because there's a ghost NPC in LA who alludes to that)

Vexed Arcanist
15-11-2005, 20:23
I am excited. I used to play DII and my favorite character was the assassin. I just hope they don't copy the class completely from DII...I'm sure they won't. So yeah if they don't give us extra character slots...then I'll say a nice farewell to my warrior. :happy34:

Anet has stated, repeatedly, they will be increasing slots when new professions are added. They stated they would never expect players to have to delete characters in order to access new professions.

Mawgleah
15-11-2005, 20:24
While this is off topic I would speculate that given the fact the expansion is further into the storyline you would start at the point of the new storyline. Now, personally, I wouldn't mind a level 1 and working up vs. a level 20 off the cuff. I would mind working through the same game I have done over 8 times already.


Ooops. I didn't mean to imply that I wanted to start the new class out at a high level, I'd be more than willing to start at 0 or 1....just not through pre-searing again.

ccrazool
15-11-2005, 20:29
Blah. I am not impressed, nor really happy to hear that another game will have a completely misnomered "assassin" that we can play.

Seriously, why on earth will it be called an "assassin" ANet? Will it be able to kill a target, any target, in one hit? No? I doubt that such a horrible imbalancing skill/feature would ever be implemented. So these "assassins" will not actually "assassinate" anybody, they'll just "fight".

Just like every other class in the game. So big whoop. Call it what it is, then. Shadow-magic-using-stealthy-fighter-that-dual-wields-needle-like-throwing-weapons.

Not impressed at all. Bring on the Druids, too, while you're at it... Molten Boulder FTW, right? Oh and while you're at it, I'd like an Amazon and a Sorceress and would it kill you to give us a Barbarian and a Paladin also?

:rolleyes:

Edit: Any wagering on whether or not these "assassins" will have all of their 15k armor art before the necromancer Tormentor's art gets put in?

Henton Delar
15-11-2005, 20:31
These are just my general ideas.
-Main Attribute: % chance to cause Truamatic Bleeding on target while attacking
-Claw mastery: Increase critical and attack when using claw weapons
-Avoidance: Increase % chance to dodge and evade when using Avoidance skills
-Poison: increase damage and duration when using Poison skills
-Thrown Weapons: Increase critcal and attack when using thrown weapons.

Diayas
15-11-2005, 20:31
lets put it thsi way


a druid > a bard

:|

Brustow
15-11-2005, 20:36
in my mind this is class will be more geared toward pvp.

Wraithen Darkbane
15-11-2005, 20:37
Blah. I am not impressed, nor really happy to hear that another game will have a completely misnomered "assassin" that we can play.

Seriously, why on earth will it be called an "assassin" ANet? Will it be able to kill a target, any target, in one hit? No? I doubt that such a horrible imbalancing skill/feature would ever be implemented. So these "assassins" will not actually "assassinate" anybody, they'll just "fight".

Just like every other class in the game. So big whoop. Call it what it is, then. Shadow-magic-using-stealthy-fighter-that-dual-wields-needle-like-throwing-weapons.

Not impressed at all. Bring on the Druids, too, while you're at it... Molten Boulder FTW, right? Oh and while you're at it, I'd like an Amazon and a Sorceress and would it kill you to give us a Barbarian and a Paladin also?

:rolleyes:

Edit: Any wagering on whether or not these "assassins" will have all of their 15k armor art before the necromancer Tormentor's art gets put in?

err plaladins already exist= w/mo, its the same thing in most respects when you look at alot of the possible abilities. Likewise the "druid" is incorporated in the ranger proffesion with ALOT of the same druidic abilities witha r/e the only thing thats druidic that you cant do is shapeshifting. Sorceres=Ele. Also not all assasins in the real world kill instantly some use poisons that are unnoticable and make it look like a natural death when their mission is killed. so your comment about the assasin is completely uninformed altogether because an assasin is simply someone who kills some target in relative secrecy.

awiggin
15-11-2005, 20:37
Blah. I am not impressed, nor really happy to hear that another game will have a completely misnomered "assassin" that we can play.

Seriously, why on earth will it be called an "assassin" ANet? Will it be able to kill a target, any target, in one hit? No? I doubt that such a horrible imbalancing skill/feature would ever be implemented. So these "assassins" will not actually "assassinate" anybody, they'll just "fight".

Just like every other class in the game. So big whoop. Call it what it is, then. Shadow-magic-using-stealthy-fighter-that-dual-wields-needle-like-throwing-weapons.

Not impressed at all. Bring on the Druids, too, while you're at it... Molten Boulder FTW, right? Oh and while you're at it, I'd like an Amazon and a Sorceress and would it kill you to give us a Barbarian and a Paladin also?

:rolleyes:

Edit: Any wagering on whether or not these "assassins" will have all of their 15k armor art before the necromancer Tormentor's art gets put in?


Hmm, here's an idea, rather than moaning about the new classes, (that we have really no hard information on) perhaps stating what you would like to see might be a better way to approach it.
And I really don't understand the venting about a minor piece of cosmetic surgery. It's clearly not at the top of their list, and if that's the only thing that is left for you in this game.....

Ender

kai
15-11-2005, 20:39
in my mind this is class will be more geared toward pvp.

lol, what isnt, unfortunately?

Ostriig
15-11-2005, 20:44
Edit: Any wagering on whether or not these "assassins" will have all of their 15k armor art before the necromancer Tormentor's art gets put in?


Well, at the rate things are going now, it's very probable that, regardless of whether Assassins have all their 15k's at launch or not, they probably WILL have them before Necros have their Tormentor's. :mad: Ok, I'm exagerating... but not too much :happy53: .

Valice
15-11-2005, 20:47
Sigh, while I'm interested into seeing how this new class plays out, I really wanted a 'brawler' class.

A fist fighter, using stances and forms to attack the enemy.

Here's hoping! :happy14:

A Famine
15-11-2005, 20:51
If they want to go to a far away land of trading to go get assasin .... well i can sure think of another class that would HAVE to be around that same area ....

you dont have a land with tons of trading and ships without

PIRATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Best idea of the whole thread. Not sure how well full-fledged pirates would fit into it, but I'm sure they could just call them swashbucklers or something.

And my opionion: Yawn@assassin. If they do have some sort of "stealth" ability, how well would it fit into a party-setting? Imagine trying to use that and play with henchmen. Not going to work too well.

I would have liked to see a berserker type. Less armor, but capable of putting out more damage. Or something not stupid like an assassin.

Tsukasa Kusanagi
15-11-2005, 20:53
Oh I dont doubt SHE looks good in game... But what about MALE assassins? Is chapter 2 continuing the GW traditions of awesome looking animation,armor and looks for females and terrible animation, armor and looks for males? We got a fat balding monk in need of a lyposuction, a warrior that needs a completele facial reconstruction and went too heavy on the steroids, an ele that spent one too many nights drunk at a rave party, a necro that looks like he sleeps inside a body bag indeed, and male rangers that look like redneck bums. I wont even mention the mesmer. Can you PLEASE tell me if males have a better design this time around,and not everyone will pick female chars this time? Cus like, some of us like to roleplay as our char, and hence would like the option of picking a male char. Thanks.
Good lord I hope they make the males look better. On the picture that is going around, can anyone read the text? My moniter is horrible, so I can't, but does it give any clues? Like, who is Nika?

Kenagalaz
15-11-2005, 20:54
Best idea of the whole thread. Not sure how well full-fledged pirates would fit into it, but I'm sure they could just call them swashbucklers or something.

And my opionion: Yawn@assassin. If they do have some sort of "stealth" ability, how well would it fit into a party-setting? Imagine trying to use that and play with henchmen. Not going to work too well.

I would have liked to see a berserker type. Less armor, but capable of putting out more damage. Or something not stupid like an assassin.
yeah, but just imagine how much more /beckon will be used. =D

Kumaiti
15-11-2005, 21:05
let me add another 0.02:

For you people complaining about "cliches" and lack of originality:

Since when warriors, rangers, monks (read: priests/clerics), necros and elementalists are not FANTASY CLICHE?? Except for the Mesmer (which reminds me of blue color from Magic: The Gathering), all the other classes are pure cliche from fantasy games. I see no problem in adding another one.

And I would not be concerned about balancing. Anet has already proven they are REALLY good on that matter.

ccrazool
15-11-2005, 21:06
Hmm, here's an idea, rather than moaning about the new classes, (that we have really no hard information on) perhaps stating what you would like to see might be a better way to approach it.
And I really don't understand the venting about a minor piece of cosmetic surgery. It's clearly not at the top of their list, and if that's the only thing that is left for you in this game.....

Ender

Noted. However, for the record, in the past stating what I'd like to see (guild storage, auction house, linking additional accounts, 15k tormentor's art, making Maw the Mountain Heart spawn randomly through every north or south shiverpeaks zone, unlimited character slots) has proved to have zero bearing on what ANet actually implements.

In a like manner, stating what I'd like the assassin to look like or be like will have no bearing on what ANet will actually implement... it seems as though they've already got her skillsets developed and that we are, according to that ANet individual that posted in this thread, "speculating" here.

To an extent, however, I did state what I'd like to see from an individual who is labeled "an assassin" -- the ability to kill any target with one strike. This, obviously, will not be implemented.

So if our "assassins" cannot "assassinate" people; if they can only "fight" people like every other profession in the game, why call them "assassins" in the first place? It's Especially when Diablo II had "assassins" that could not "assassinate" enemies either. Why not come up with some different, cooler name? "Shadow Warrior" mayhap?

If they cannot outright kill any target with one strike, then to label them "assassins" is trite, tired and wholly incorrect. A misnomer. If they can outright kill any target with one strike, GW will most likely be horribly, horribly unbalanced after their implementation.

But sure, bring 'em on. If ANet gives me a character slot for one, I'll probably make one.

I won't go dragging this topic off topic on the whole "my tormentors armor looks like I bought it at the Henge of Denravi" here... I'll just say that Deldrimor steel ingots are expensive and leave the rest of my thoughts for the appropriate topic, ;-)

Scutilla
15-11-2005, 21:07
Speculation, aka how I would implement this class:

Stealth: Reduced aggro radius for PvE combined with "active camo" for PvP. While using stealth, the assassin's garb "fills" with the color of the background. Light / shadow effects are then applied normally. This allows you to actually see the assassin, but also to miss them if you're not paying attention. Also has the side-benefit of being most effective in shadows, where there are less light-effects drawn on characters.

Ambush Skills: These will be slightly more powerful than an equivalent attack, but with high skill recharge. The Warrior has no attack skills with 30s+ recharge, but this character could. Possibly inflicting conditions "until healed", or at least with very long duration.

Poison Skills: Some sort of condition with an "end condition" that would make a good covering condition. Something like "festering wound" (reduce max hp by 10%, when festering wound ends, target is diseased for the remaining duration). Some sort of anti-healing condition as well: "system shock" (when healed, target takes X damage, similar to Scourge Healing but on the victim).

Backstab Skills: If Backstab hits from the rear arc, it results in an automatic crit +X damage.

Death Touch: This is a simple repeating DOT hex that follows the target, and hits once per X seconds, similar to a Balthazar's Aura in reverse.

Shadow Evades: Stance. If the Assassin is standing in shadows / darkness, they have a 75% chance to evade.

Shadow Teleports: Assassin teleports (as Consume Corpse) to the nearest shadow.

Distraction: Shrink the Aggro circle of the hexed creature (slightly), to ease pulling smaller groups. This hex is not detected as an attack.

Deadly Silence: Counter for shouts, removes shout effects.

Throat Strike: Disables shout skills for X seconds.

Intrusion: Can open doors, as the Guild Thief. Can "bypass" or climb over walls.

Spot Traps: Gives a visible indicator of ranger traps. Possibly also spirit radius and other fixed AoEs as well.

Demoralize: If Assassin captures the opposing flag, the other team receives an immediate -2% Morale Penalty.

Thrown Weapons: Low damage but very fast. Same range as the ranger's Point-Blank Shot.

Disorient: Preparation. Attack with thrown weapon to apply the Dazed condition. Each time an attack hits, duration is extended (similar to Kinetic Armor).

In agreement on all of these, you summed up my thoughts nicely and added a few extra things in besides, Fae. Only things I would add is melee dual-weilding (again, probably as a primary to keep Warriors from going crazy). I like the idea of two types of weapons (melee and ranged), closed we come to that sort of variety right now is sword/axe vs. hammer or staff vs. wand (with us poor rangers being forced to use bows *crosses fingers for new beastmaster weapon*

Also, dunno if this has been mentioned yet... does the assignment given in the story in the article sound like a class quest to anyone else? Imagine doing a quest were you could kill only a boss and none of its minions... stealth skills would have to be really something in order to accomplish that, although it would be great if they did. Perhaps temporarily shrinking your aggro bubble to 0, and removing your dot from the rader to give it a PvP benefit (you could still manually select her, or maybe target her with C). 'Twould definitely give Warrs a run for their money for being runners (pun unintended but left in), although their lesser armor would keep them from being godly, and a W/A wouldn't be able to heal as effectively.

Anyways, I'm happy that they made a rogue-type character, and thrilled that this major piece of Chapter 2 info came out of the blue :clap: Pity everyone's ripping it apart when it hasn't even been general knowledge for a whole day... have faith in those who serve!

And as cool as pirates are... sorry guys, but Ninjas FTW :lol:

Kyrion Hellcat
15-11-2005, 21:12
The primary attribute will probably have to do something with the game core mechanics... like energy, recharge time of skills, armor penetration...

Right now:

Ranger/Ele/Necro: Energy management
Warrior: Armor penetration
Mesmer: Reduced casting time
Monk: Extra healing (Mmmm... energy management?)
Assasin: ??? Energy???? Fast attack??? Improved critical hit chance???

Also, all 'true weapon' skill lines are 'Shareable' between classes:

Marksmanship/Axes/Hammers/Swords

So, expect "Daggers" or "Knifes" or whatever Nika is using to be a non-primary attribute.

Maybe, the primary attribute may have few or no skills associated to it, like Necro's or Mesmer's... Giving only a game-mechanics advantage.

Concluding... We have no idea of what will definitely come out.

I only expect from it NOT BEING SO COOL that it would make me forget about my beloved ranger...

Wicked N
15-11-2005, 21:13
Um how about giving credit to the person that informed you of the information, he posted a link to the forum where it was confirmed, its also there the pictures were posted originally by the members of that forum, and its not like some members were browsing imageshack and found the pictures, they are posted there aswell, please give credit to the people that informed the community and to the people that posted the pictures

jciardha
15-11-2005, 21:22
The whole idea of an assassin class seems completely redundant to me. With the right skillset, a ranger could easily fill that role, except for the whole "stealth" part.

Anyway, I hope Anet does NOT go for the stereotypical ninja look for this new class. Blah. What I hope to see is something that hearkens back to the original root of the word Assassin, or the Hashshashin. Of course, that may be called racist and stereotypical in this day and age, considering the Hashshashin were a heretical Islamic sect (who also got stoned on pot, or "hash," before a job). Nevertheless, some fantasty "Arabian Nights" armor might be a nice touch.

Wraithen Darkbane
15-11-2005, 21:26
ASSASIN= some one who kills some one in some from of secrecy. THAT is the real definition of assasin. In the real world you can hire hit men and other crap and they can kill people ALOT of diffrent ways. The whole "one hit" thing is utter utter BS. A real assasin can kill someone over time with some slow poison so when they die it looks like a natural death. The point is by the simple word "assasin" they can mean ANYTHING. A-Net has been relatively original in some ways/classes such as the mesmer, a relatively original idea, not present in most rpg's. Likewise A-Net and N-C soft may make an orgiinal class that is an assasin as long as it kills people in a certain timespan. anyone complaining, moaning, ranting, flameing, trolling, being negative in general is a FRICKEN MORON. The word assasinate means to kill , it doesnt say how how long or why, just that an assasin will kill. The only major thing that can be assumed is that it wont be a healer class lol. Everyone elese whos been complaining about what happened in other games should either (a) go to the forums for those respective games, (b) stop complaining, or (c) hang themselves for being retarded. The assasin might have a "touch of death" skill where they touch someone, its unditectable and 5 minutes later they drop dead. The point is anyone who becomes upset, elated, complains, etc. about an "assasin" is upset based on the fact that their is going to be a new class that can kill others. Seriously have or a third of the people on this thread were trolling/flameing/etc. That just upset me. Assasin=someone who kills. not something out of d2 with the same name or not something out of wow or everquest or etc. Assasin=kill thats it.

EDIT: just to hammer in an affore mentioned point ASSASINS DONT HAVE TO KILL IN ANY # OF HITS THE WORD ASSASIN MEANS SIMPLY SOMEONE WHO KILLS.

Fae Winter
15-11-2005, 21:28
Yes, so now every class will have to bring a counter onto the field in PVP to SPECIFICALLY counter assassins, gg. What a wonderful idea, so balanced =p.

I'm not sure if I explained my idea well enough (or perhaps you're simply responding to those who really do want invisibility).

I'd like to see stealth implemented as a camoflague ability, so that you CAN see them without any sort of skill, but so that if you are busy spamming heals or attacks, it is easy to overlook them. Basically, to make the player's situational awareness and ability to focus on what's going on around them more important.

Basically, the way I was suggesting, they would not be even a little bit transparent, but rather whatever color was at the "edge" of the character would be matched by the character's clothing. The folds, shadows, and other 3-D effects would still be applied as normal, so you could still see the outline of the person.

Wouldn't this be more accpetable in PvP? No specific counter required.

Koroh
15-11-2005, 21:32
I just had an epiphany :idea: Assuming the Assasin will have some kind of ability to disappear from the radar. They could make a new kind of PvP match where you don't fight you just play hide and seek using the assassin. No faction of course, just a fun distraction from the day to day slaughter of mahaim of PvP.

Flamers, ready set go!!!

I had the same thought. The Assassin stealth ability could be as simple as not showing up on the radar, or to [ctrl] targetting. It would also be very cool if the Assassin was only targettable by direct clicking, not [tab] or [ctrl] while using a stealth skill.

There are two definitions of Assassin:

1. One who murders by surprise attack, especially one who carries out a plot to kill a prominent person.
or
2. A member of a secret order of Muslims who terrorized and killed Christian Crusaders and others.

Since this game tries hard to avoid the subject of real world religions, I think it's fair to assume they're intending the first type of Assassin.

No where does it state that Assassins can kill with a single blow. This is an unfortunate side effect of the romantic view of an Assassin as a perfect killer.

Since this thread is purely speculative, here's my speculation:

Dual Wielding
Stealth (in whatever form)
Positional Attacks
DoT (Exotic Poison) Attacks
Area Blind Effect will probably be a skill (ninja VANISH!)

Assassination missions will probably be exclusively PvE, although I'm certain the Assassin will be effective at killing NPC's (like the Hero) in PvP.

The question was raised about how stealth would work carrying a train of NPC's. My answer is that it won't. The NPC's can't avoid enemies like the Assassin can with stealth, so you'll probably do those missions solo. At best you'll get to drag the Assassin NPC along with you. :happy34:

I also think that the Assassin will be very dependant on position to do high damage. Face to face the Assassin should lose against a Warrior. The idea of high damage/long recharge, positional, spike abilities seems to work for the concept of an Assassin.

While I'm not a big fan of this class since it will draw all the immature players like moths to a flame, the possibile advantage is that they'll be easier to identify while making a group :lol: Give them glowing swords (like the Chaos Axe) and allow them to wear black cloaks and sunglasses and you can be sure every 15 year old with pimples will be playing this class!

Koroh

Precha NBK
15-11-2005, 21:43
We can sit here and whine or praise the new class all we want. Think up who's idea is the best in hopes that an NC soft or A.Net official will see it and say, "OH BOY, lets use their idea." lol.

Fact of the matter is that they've already got guys paying ppl, paying ppl, paying ppl to think up skills, concept art, story lines and this characters beginings (as we've seen a bit in the story provided already.) ect, ect, as we read and post.

Guild Wars has delievered completely in every skill class. You can relate some of them to D2 or other RPG's, but for the most part all of them are unique. I'm completely sure that this "assassin" class will be fine, balanced both in PvE and PvP. They aren't going to release a character that is ubber powerfull or under powered. Besides this is NC Soft and A.Net we talking about. Not some company like Novalogic that releases a game and says, "here it is, like it or don't." and leaves it at that. Even if there are probs with the character when it comes out, I'm sure they'll have a team workin round the clock to fix it.

The first of the year can't come soon enough. The thing I am still waiting on is spectator modes and scrimages for GvG.

Oh and I agree, SHAPSHIFTERS FtW!!! LOL

ZEROCOOLIV
15-11-2005, 21:54
2 cents on stealthing skills... Why couldn't the stealth skill be like a ranger's trap? When a trap is being used they can get interupted by 1 hit. Then the trap only lasts so long. You wouldn't have to give other classes the ability to counter the invisble part, but if there was a prep. time involved than can be interupted that could be the counter.

Dual wielding will be cool.

Whoever said that a skill only to the primamry assassin like stealth that offered a small chance to evade attacks sounded cool. Just like the opposite of strength for wars. The reason why i say this, is for those of you that have tried to take a R/W into melee without evasion skills will get smacked down by physical damage because of the lack of good armor. I would image that an assassins armor would be less than a war and probably better than a caster. Without the inherit evasion skills they are going to get dropped in melee against physical damage. If the class is going to have melee skills then, hey they either 1 need armor or 2 they need to be able to reduce pysical damage greatly.

Again great idea on the primary skill offering 1 or 2% to evade attacks. :clap:

Captain Boxman
15-11-2005, 22:01
Assassin:

Attributes- 1.) Knife- The primary physical damage-dealing attribute of the Assassin
2.) Deception- Akin to the mesmer illusion line as far as offense goes, with degen, conditions, and such, but also holds the speed buffs (larger than ranger) and skills that would decrease your aggro bubble size and remove you from the enemy's radar...This would be the primary attribute and would make the Assassin move 3% faster and DOES stack with speed boosts.
3.) I can't come up with any more attributes, that's ANet's job, and thank the God for that :happy65: , I think if it was up to most of us, we would really screw this game up.


In my idea, that Assassin would be a combination range/melee player. Their ranger attacks would be with items such as throwing stars and their melee attacks would be with some type of short sword (I'm not up on my ninja-ish gear, sorry :mad: ). The default melee attacks would be about the same damage as a sword, but would not have the same effects as sword skills do, such as bleeding and the insane damage of Final Thrust, but would be faster and would cost energy and not adrenaline. The default ranged attacks would be weaker than a Ranger's, but would be faster and the skills would cost less energy AT BASE (not counting any type of Expertise bonus). My idea would include knife skills for melee, some sort of projectile skills for the stars, the Deception skills which would be casts that are both self buffs to increase movement speed, protect from ONE CONDITION PER SKILL, for example, *protects from poison for 100 seconds*, and skills that would decrease your aggro bubble radius and remove you from enemy radar for a VERY short time...maybe even a Claim Resource-type skill for GvG....I think these are pretty good ideas as they maintain the balance between the other classes and make very little overlap. There should be a few interrupts as well, but
ANet has to be careful not to make the Assassin a mix of Ranger, Mesmer, and Warrior...yet I have nothing but the utmost Faith :clap:

{BK}Gileren
15-11-2005, 22:17
I hope to god that this class is not unbalanced due to dualclassing. before GuildWars the Assassins' huge DPS and invisibility were balanced out by lower grades of armor and weak defensive abilities...but seeing as how this can be countered in GW by being Warrior or Ranger primary- i hope to god Anet has figured out a way to keep it balanced. and if Anet fails to do this i will more then likely quit. If Anet succeeds, and the class is completely balanced, then i will beg for a different class (Druid or Bard) :lol:

so in short- Anet, please dont F*** this up....

Brustow
15-11-2005, 22:30
lol, what isnt, unfortunately?

probably more so than say, mes.

there's a limited amount of strategy in pve.

There are already trying to make PVE more like PVP. Anet has even said so themsleves with the latest change on the AOE.

Not that it isn't neccessarily a bad thing.

Fyr Eater
15-11-2005, 22:36
Is this Guildwars or Diablo III? :confused:

Dabbo
15-11-2005, 22:37
Chances are, all the really uber godlike assassin skills that make it so awesome will be available in their primary attribute only. If it goes anything like NWN with rogues and assassins and stuff, I'm guessing the primary attribute will add more damage to attacks from the sides and behind as its direct effect. Then the skills will do stuff like make you move faster, avoid attacks, and maybe increase the chance of critical hits and armor penetration. I can easily imagine a weakling assassin type dude with skills like "Assassin's Knife: This attack has 50% armor penetration and a 25% chance of being a critical hit. You take X damage if this attack misses" or something like that. Maybe like a necro with lots of physical attacks? I dunno. I can easily imagine preparations and stances galore...Ranger sub would be nice, with apply poison.

Frenzy seems like a very assassin-esque skill...but it'd need slight changes. Maybe..."Desparation Stance: For X seconds, your attacks have Y armor penetration and you take 1.5x damage from attacks." Somethin' like that. I can't wait to see this implemented...chapter 2 can't come soon enough, and this is only one of the new professions!

Hmm...this might end up being sort of like a melee-oriented Necromancer. It'll be interesting to see if there are parallels between the two classes.

*EDIT* Also, to address balance issues, maybe every attribute point you put in one of their attributes would lower your health by a set amount? That would counteract the effects of warrior armor if it wasn't a primary attribute...just a thought, and probably not a good one, but it's something ^^; I prefer my idea of "uber assassin potentially unbalanced skills" as a primary attribute, but I can see how this would work, too.

Vandree
15-11-2005, 22:47
Wow I have not spend a cent on any other game since I got GW now Ill be more then happy to open the wallet again fer chapter 2 hee hee!! Assassins Look cool but Plz pretty Plz give me a BARD and more charracter slots with the Chapter 2!!

Have two accounts Max Lvl charracter of each class and an pvp slot on each account Iam hoping that the expanision gives me room to fit in the new charracter professions without deleteing my loved charracters :happy05:

Good Hunting

Xpiher
15-11-2005, 22:47
you people are looking at it all wrong. If they do in fact add an assassin, then it would not require stealth, but instead "fast movement" skills that allow for quick attacks in succession and "back-stab attacks" that allow you to instantly hit the target in the back. It won't include any of this "off-the-radar" stuff, but it will instead be a pint-size tank with powerful, quick attacks with low recharge time. Perhaps it could include throwing kinves, and "knowledge of pressure points" skills, but I think "knowledge of pressure points" would be reserved for an actual martial artist

Zeittotschlager
15-11-2005, 22:51
you people are looking at it all wrong. If they do in fact add an assassin, then it would not require stealth, but instead "fast movement" skills that allow for quick attacks in succession and "back-stab attacks" that allow you to instantly hit the target in the back. It won't include any of this "off-the-radar" stuff, but it will instead be a pint-size tank with powerful, quick attacks with low recharge time. Perhaps it could include throwing kinves, and "knowledge of pressure points" skills, but I think "knowledge of pressure points" would be reserved for an actual martial artist

What is "Shadow Step" then? :happy34:

Sounds like stealth to me. She didn't "Quick Step" out of the room.

Danko Lom
15-11-2005, 22:55
Sup all, been ghosting here for awhile and finally decided to join in. First off, tite website and great forum mods. I've been playing this game since sept. and have pretty much dropped all other games for this one.

To the people who say that Guild Wars is going diablo 2, the inclusion of one character type won't do that, this game although similar is much better because of the class combinations.

Now on to speculations:
I've read somewhere else that people think assasins have duel wield and maybe even one handed cross-bows if this is true then i'm one :surprise: happy player, lol imagine holding two cross bows John Woo style. :happy14: And people are right, this game needs more melee characters

Second, the pirate class would be real cool and original, don't think any other similar game has had that class. But what would be their skills?

Finally, maybe an "inventor" class is possible, this class would use gun-powder and science stuff, the world of Tyria already has science and inventions, look at the dwarves ballistae and stuff. This class could use six shooters.

Hope this post isn't too lame and what not Danko=noobie forum user

JeanDeathwish
15-11-2005, 22:59
Enough of your speculating of overpowered skills that will never be. And of your thoughts of this game as a copy of D2. The Devs at ANet are very original. Although the starting consept might not seem so, the skills and in game role will be. Trust in ANet for this. I HIGHLY DOUBT there will be an ability to just disappear. Its overpowered and unoriginal and won't happen.

The Frog once said that 8 was a magical number. 8 skills, 8 people, 8 classes. One can safely make that assumption. Now looking at the "heros" of the game (ex. Mhenlo, Devona), there is currently one per class (or should be, sorry Mesmers). Nika will be that hero for assassins. Now, also looking at the composition of henchies, ANet sees a balanced team as one of each class.

W
Mo
Me
N
R
E
A(to replace the extra W)
X(to replace the extra Mo)

Since they figured the importance of two monks to be great, I'm sure profession X will be somewhat of a support character to take the burden away from protection monks. So, sadly to say, the next new class won't be a pirate and, even more sadly to say, druids are great at protecting...

But ANet will deal with it in a fun original way. Then when one thinks of adding assassins and druids, one thinks of GWx.

Xpiher
15-11-2005, 23:00
What is "Shadow Step" then? :happy34:

Sounds like stealth to me. She didn't "Quick Step" out of the room.

well i suppose you could have the character fad an then appear behind a person and stab them as a skil. I didn't see shadow steep though, but I was more focused on the assassin being off the radar in the literal sense, which would make the class a little over powered in PvP.

Kenagalaz
15-11-2005, 23:20
well i suppose you could have the character fad an then appear behind a person and stab them as a skil. I didn't see shadow steep though, but I was more focused on the assassin being off the radar in the literal sense, which would make the class a little over powered in PvP.
Now if they could only implement a day/night cycle and make you invisible during the night... oh wait... that's another game.

Sounds like evade, riptose/counter, blind, etc etc maybe some short range teleportation

So what's gonna happen to all the current R/W assassins?

Avon Helvek
15-11-2005, 23:20
If they added stealth, then it should better work for pvp. Remove them from the map radar for ganking? :P

Enosh
15-11-2005, 23:26
well as a second new char i would like to have somthing like this:

copying:

Astrologer

---> Attributes

Luminary Bond (primary only) - The stronger the connection is between the Astrologer and the celestial bodies, the stronger is thei reaction when he calls for their aid. For every 3 seconds of sleep, the Astrologer gains +1 energy per attribute point in Luminary Bond.

Powers of Light - The Astrologer calls for the sun's help in order to harm the opponent. No inherent effect. Some of the Astrologer's Light spells become more effective.

Powers of Darkness - The Astrologer summons shadows to aid him dealing with opponents. No inherent effect. Some of the Astrologer's Darkness spells become more effective.

Astrology - By interpreting the astrological setting, he Astrologer can bring the protection of the stars upon his/her team. No inherent effect. This attribute reduces the casting time of Astrology skills.



this was ideas for the gw we play now and now in the addon something like this would be amazing! A caster that helps the party with the power of the universe, the sun, the moon and the stars. i would change this to something like this: power of the sun, power of the moon and power of the stars. the skils in the sun would be strong bufs to only one party, the moon line wold be you main dmg line (or giving debufs to only one target foe) and the star line would give bufs to ALL party member and debufs to ALL foes.

p.s. this isn't my work youst found on a dead gw fan site.

CHIPS
15-11-2005, 23:28
Here are my guesses.

The assasin will be able to use two of any one-handed weapons. In each hit, their attack deals 60% of the orginal weapon 's damage. That is 120% damage. Each time they attack with two weapons, they gain 2 adrenline, instead of 1.

They have abilities to make themselves, or their allies, invincible for a certain period of time. When under this effect, the ally cannot attack nor cast spells. They also cannot be targetted by anyone, but will still take damage from AoE. Even their own monks cannot heal them when under this effect. Assasins have abilities to end their own invincibiliity earily, but not other classes. The assasin might have an entire line of skills based on their stealth abilities.

Assasin have lots of skills to make themselves attack very fast, move very fast, and make their own attack unblockable and cannot be evaded. These will be skills, not stances, so they can be stacked. They have some skills that boosts their damage on their attack, just like warriors and rangers. But they do not have any skills that can kill an enemy in one hit.

They can cause conditions very easily. Mainly Cripple and Deep Wound.

Assasin 's armor is same as the rangers, at 70. The armor gives them a energy regen of 3. The armor specality is to cut hexs and condition lengths in half.

All guesses. :cool:

Chayrah Darkhaven
15-11-2005, 23:29
OK, let the random speculation begin as to what the class will do or accomplish!

I'm betting it will be some kind of ninja/thief/ranger/monk combo. Stealth, picklocks, poison, traps, self heal with dual wield of long daggers/katanas. That's my 2 cents

Dragon Lady
15-11-2005, 23:32
Why do people keep saying assassins with stealth are overpowered? Stealth is just a temporary bonus, has nothing to do with damage or critical hit. Once she hits someone, the stealth effect is gone. If anything, I expect assassins to be underpowered, at least in the beginning, as her armor class is most likely to be low, her damage output is not high because her weapons are just small blades, and she certainly won't have energy level like a caster does. She has only adrenaline and speed. So what if she gets stealth ability. Just look at ANET's tendency to nerf uber builds, so if anything, assassin will be slightlly underpowered on her debut. :happy34:

SilentMoon
15-11-2005, 23:42
Oh trust me, she's got plenty of great skills... ;)
Oh my. And I didn't even think about it first. Damn you Alex, damn you!

Beqxter
15-11-2005, 23:48
Chapter 2 is not the end of the story - they've stated many times that their business model is to release a new chapter every ~6 months - that we pay for new content, not revision of existing content. Now I'm not sure if that means that every single chapter will have new professions (just thinking about balancing all that gives me a headache), but I doubt they'll stop with just 2 more - future chapters will probably have new professions, too. New races, too - although I don't know that race will mean anything apart from aesthetic appearance.

After Killroy Stonekin, I think Anet may just have enough of a sense of humor to include a 'Swashbuckler' class to complement the Assassin. OMG, I would laugh for soooo long....

Natas Cobra
15-11-2005, 23:51
I'm betting it will be some kind of ninja/thief/ranger/monk combo. Stealth, picklocks, poison, traps, self heal with dual wield of long daggers/katanas. That's my 2 cents


picklocks/stealth .....possibly to fulfill the role of the thief/bodygaurd in gvg ????

Roalin
15-11-2005, 23:55
I think the primary attribute should be something like "Dexterity - Each point in this increases base attack speed by so many %"

I like the idea of pirates, mainly cause i always get this funny image in my head of a guy with 1 leg...

"Why are pirates called pirates?..... Cause they ARRRRRRRRRRRR"

JeanDeathwish
16-11-2005, 00:06
Here's what most of you are proposing:

Stealth:
Stance. You become invisable for x-y seconds. While invisable you cannot be targeted and you cannot deal any damage.

You also speak of many skills like or similar to this.

There is a LESS powerful skill in the water line that is an elite. With Mist Form you can be targeted and therefore take damage from sources like degeneration and life stealing. People can see you and know waht you are doing.

Now, what seems more powerful? The ability to randomly appear and kill someone or Mist Form? Imagine a team of 8 Assassins. The Monks have not yet prepared their enchantments and you are waiting to see your enemies. All of a sudden you see 8 red dots surround your monk, your monk dies then the dots disappear. This then happens again and again. You now know how uber these build are and can be so you go and make one. Soon HoH and GvG is flooded with these. What is going to happen when everyone is in stealth?!

If ANet uses the concept of "stealth" it would be increased movement speed and high evasion rate. Sound like anything else? Escape maybe?

The only possible way for ANet to implement a skill that makes you disappear from the radar is if there is only one elite skill that grants this with many drawbacks.

Stealth:
Stance. Lose all enchantments. You become invisable for y seconds, are slowed by 33% and suffer from 10-7 health degeneration. While invisable you cannot be targeted and you cannot deal any damage. Stealth ends if you attack or use a skill. This is an elite skill.
Recharge: x

y/x should be about 10-15%, meaning one could be invisable 9s out of every min.

The fact that you cannot be seen is a HUGE advantage in GW as this is a very strategic game and if you don't realize your enemies plans, they will surely win.

Kyrion Hellcat
16-11-2005, 00:31
So what's gonna happen to all the current R/W assassins?
You wanna bet?

Hint: They'll switch one of the two letters for an "A"

Kenagalaz
16-11-2005, 00:38
You wanna bet?

Hint: They'll switch one of the two letters for an "A"
bet about what? I didn't think that was a betting question. (BTW, i just created a R/W -though i plan on deleting him for a pvp slot when i get a bit father. I'm actually playign a 5th time around so i can point out all the storyline plot holes =D but that has nothing to do with this thread.)

elona scissorhands
16-11-2005, 00:45
rethinking my earlier post maybe a net will make assasin a big distraction character. Maybe, since the assasin wouldnt want to make nosie it would wear weak cloth armor and use small daggers and such with low damage, to make up for this add a print skill with longer suration or the ability to hop with a rather large mana cost to avoid giving the assassin a large chance to get away. the assassin could in theory attack with small amounts of damage as a run-by kind of attack and maybe using poison or other potions to affect their enemies with conditions such as blind and confusion. then mix that with classic warrior style attacks that can cripple or bleed enemies with a cost of 50% slower movement for 2 seconds after attacking to make sure that the enemies of an assasin arent at a complete disadvantage of not being able to hit them. i think this is a likely bvuild for the new assassin different than many games but using some classic concepts. of course this would be only one build. and we all know how in gw its easy to make more and more complicated builds.

SMoron
16-11-2005, 00:46
I have to agree with everyone stealth would make the class to powerful...imagine everyone going secondary ele or secondary necro. They would run up to you stealthed..then bam...cystal wave...owned....it would be like fast cast mesmer/ eles...The pvp aspect would be unfair all around. And even so if you could be enchanted...slips off with stealth..then show up....Imagine a assassin warrior....or assassin ranger popping up next to you with illusionary weaponry on them. Or strength of honor. Just about any buffing skill. Im not surprised with the decision they chose for this new class. You have to remember they came from blizzard and the Diablo 2 project. Why not have an assassin. They already know how to set one up. More originality would actually stimulate the more hardcore players but hey they made clear with their posts that this is just one of more classes. Maybe they will come up with something I will enjoy or that will be able to counter the assassin. Else there will be alot more trappers and ALOT more traps being placed everywhere and I hope that this isnt the case because traps already bother me.

David Holtzman
16-11-2005, 00:46
An assassin eh? Well, I can't say I'm not dissappointed. I was really hoping this wouldn't just become another D&D clone, but that is seeming less and less likely. If I'd wanted D&D, I'd have stayed with NWN.

As to balance, I don't think there is a way to balance stealth, while still having it be worthwhile and game-enhancing. Same for backstab.

I mean, you take 8 people, stealth them, run up and EQ/AS spike a target like the guild lord. GG. The game already suffers from being (in general) a 7 skill set bar due to the effective requirement to carry a rez sig. Now everyone will need a "see invisible people" skill as well, reducing us to a 6 skill set bar. How will this improve the game?

Or, it's possible that during stealth you can't attack or use skills. But then, what would be the point of it? Stealth would be useless for everything basically, except maybe flag running or relic running, which would quickly devolve into a game of "guess where the assassin is". How does that improve the game?

Or maybe you can attack but not use skills? Cast IW, stealth, run in, gank lord with 8 IW fast attackers. Same problem as the first example.

And what will stealth do? Reduce aggro circle? Useful for PvE I guess, but utterly worthless for PvP. Make you untargetable, but still visible? Fine, a Spellbreaker that works against everything. Make you literally invisible to the other team? Same effect as a spellbreaker/mist form combo. How does making an invulnerable character add to the game?

Unless you want to add all sorts of negatives to it. Like 33% slow or reduced attack speed or whatever. But if that is the case, then Stealth becomes effectively useless again. I mean, a Stealth trapper would work great but not if he's slowed.

And would you be stealthed to all people, or just enemies? If its just enemies then you get the SB/MF combo problem, if it's all people then you can't get healed. We have created the new solo character for PvP. How does that improve the game?

Of course, it's possible that the Assassin won't have stealth (even though it was mentioned in that little story). But then it's sort of hard to see why they are calling it an assassin, no? The whole idea behind the assassin is you turn invisible, run up, and gank someone by yourself. Now, lots of games have had invisibility and worked fine, but none of those was a PvP game. D&D had it, sure, but it also was never meant for PvP. The wizard won every time. A quick True Seeing, followed by a snare and some nasty insta-kills against thieves. Nothing but another mage could take down a smart mage (and if epics were involved game over). Thanks, but I'd rather not turn GW into a total Elem v Elem fest.

So what about backstab? 8 invisible people run up, backstab lord, gg? If backstab really does do an instakill, then it becomes the new smite. Ignores armor, no defense. What are you gonna do, blind them? With what? You cant see them so you hope they walk into a dust trap? Even if they do, Martyr, backstab, GG. Or maybe backstab will just do obscene amounts of dmg. Still seems unbalancing. Maybe it wil be a conditional like "if hit from behind". But that sounds awfully dumb to me in a game that uses the X key like GW does. A quick person with the X key can spin so quickly the backstabber will have to just guess when to attack. How would that add to the game?

Or maybe they wont have backstab. The best option in my opinion, but then how is it an assassin? The idea of an assassin is still the same: one person, who can hide, then run up and kill a target without fail. If he cant "run up and kill the target without fail," then how is he an assassin? Maybe GW has simply appropriated the name? That seems a little implausible.

So once again: I don't think there is a way to balance stealth, while still having it be worthwhile and game-enhancing. Same for backstab. If anyone can think up an option I haven't, I'd love to hear it.

Fae Winter
16-11-2005, 01:01
If anyone can think up an option I haven't, I'd love to hear it.

I thought I already had.

Reduced aggro circle vs computer. Can now avoid the wall guards, but not the bodyguards.

Harder to see, but NOT impossible, for PvP. No skill bar slots needed, just players who pay attention.

Backstab only works like it already does for warriors and rangers... you need to get them to turn their back, either by attacking from multiple directions (team play!), getting them to run away, or sneaking up on them (manually, the same way you do it now).

Natas Cobra
16-11-2005, 01:03
ok all good points but lets not forget that a-net/gaile has said on multiple occasions that there will be lots of new skills introduced...so i would expect some badass counters to a badass assassin, cuz i would really hope that they could see an inbalance comin a mile away.

Zeittotschlager
16-11-2005, 01:03
David Holtzman, those were excelent points! You really broke it down to "If they do this right, it's broken. If they don't do it right, how is it an asassin?" They can't have in mind an asassin in the traditional sense, but if you played D2 you know that their asassin was nothing like the stealthy backstabber you describe. It was more of a martial artist/trapper. Very little stealth and no backstab at all that I recall... it's been a while. I think if they go along those lines they should choose a different name... but they won't. :)

Wraithen Darkbane
16-11-2005, 01:04
Dual Wielding=1 big problem
A/W, two axes............... with +30 health each, vamp or sunder each, +15/50................. throw in evasion and you have a WAY overpowered class not even talking about stealth.... i mean thats when u add it up- +60 health or even worse +10 Al or +14 against physical armor, 12-56 dmg, >>>+30%>50<<<, 20% sunder or sunder and vamp.... anyone else see a problem... i mean if the assasin can duel wield it wont need any skills lol. even if one hand is weakend it will be way overpowered. It will be instant death to casters wihtout skills. and since most people say it will have evasion ...ugg or stealth or both..... no matter if its weak evasion. Throw in a warrior stance and frenzy and uve got an untouchable, healing signet, close range machine gun(not counting any dot from warrior bleeding or assasin skills. For that reason dual wielding in the general sense is NOT happening.

A/Mo with 2 wands... +10 energy Max combined... fastest ranged atack speed, holy dmg from smite wands, protection spells, two 11-22 holy dmg wands, that 22-44 dmg from a distance, each wand almost twice as fast as a bow naturally, plus other bonusses from the wands to healing, smiting , and protection. yet another reason dual wielding in the general sense is NOT happening.

A/Mo with two -50 hp foccus items.... around 5hp..... invinci monk galore.... a 5 hp build in the uw. in skilled hands=ubber farming. and yet another reason dual wielding in the general sense is NOT happening.

the list could go on but the fact is with all the skills suggested/might have/could have, tha assasin will probably not have dual wielding in the general sense for these and alot of other reasons. At most youll have to puny daggers or a dagger and a pointed throwing knife. Do the math and say bye bye to dual wield :howdy: .

EDIT: Note: In the knew lore it said that the assasin had a "silk" mask. IDK bout you guys but silk sounds weaker then caster armor to me... and since the general AL is the same for headgear and chest we can assume that the armor is just as strong as her "silk" mask. IT would make sense for a high powered offense massive damage, but crap armor character, then at least some balance would be kept.

slimreb
16-11-2005, 01:07
Noted. However, for the record, in the past stating what I'd like to see (guild storage, auction house, linking additional accounts, 15k tormentor's art, making Maw the Mountain Heart spawn randomly through every north or south shiverpeaks zone, unlimited character slots) has proved to have zero bearing on what ANet actually implements.

Well as far as Maw the Mountain Heart is concerned he does indeed spawn in more places than Dreadnaught Drift. As a matter of fact I was doing a run last night and saw him in Lornar's Pass. He was found between the troll caves and the zone point between Lornars and Drift.

Well back on subject:
I just read through all these posts and some ideals are good but need to be toned down some. It is almost impossible to say what this characters skills will be but hopefully anet will give us some more little tidbits to go on. All the excitement over the announcement of this class and the expansion still is a ways off. Where I had stated that I would like to see a Beserker profession I have already had visions of how bad this could be with people making W/Be or Be/W. It would depend on the skills of the class it was made but could be a bit overpowering.

Dabbo
16-11-2005, 01:15
I think stealth in general is a bad idea. High ability to dodge stuff, yeah. Faster movement speed, definitely. But I agree that stealth would be way too unbalanced.

And dual wielding...that doesn't seem very assassin-y to me. I think of them more as dudes dressed in black stuff (with optional glowing red eyes) goin' around and KILLING!!! Not ninja pirate swashbuckler savage barbarians of DOOM who wield 2 axes and fly around invisible and pwn everything. But that's just my opinion ^^; I have a much more Fire Emblem-y view of 'em, I guess.

I guess the way I see them is as a really fast-hitting warrior. They don't do much damage with regular attacks, but maybe they could have some nice condition-inducing skills, especially crippling. Then they could also have a ton of stuff that does extra damage if the enemy has conditions on them (a la Gash) or inflicting more conditions on stuff (Like, "If target enemy is suffering from conditions, you randomly give them X of the following conditions: Deep Wound, Bleeding, Weakened...you get the idea. That'd probably be elite, too). Maybe those kinds of things under...ugh, I'm running out of creativeness. "Body Breaking," for lack of a good attribute name.

Then they could have Deadly Arts, which would be their spell-ish skills, along with ranged weapons. I'm thinking they could imbue their...shurikens, crossbows, whatever with certain spells like Rangers can, but it'd be faster 'cause Assassins are cool like that.

Their primary attribute might be something like....bah, I'm out of names. But anyways, it could maybe increase attack speed by X% for each rank sort of like Strength increases armor penetration. This would have all the pwnage skills that do extra damage, and it would bring out the Assassin's true strength: finishing peeps off. C'mon, y'all know how annoying it is when an enemy's just about to die, but they keep healing themselves and REFUSING to let go. These skills would have three main purposes: doing damage depending on your or the enemy's health, removing enchantments (Divine Intervention = TEH HATES!!!), and health degen. The first group would probably be sort of like Final Thrust, but probably with less of a significant increase in damage. Then there'd be an elite skill that's all like, "Deathblow: You do a bajillion extra damage if enemy's health is below 50%. If you don't kill 'em, your remaining health is cut in half." Something like that. Stuff based on your health would be the same, 'cept it'd increase when YOUR health is below 50%. And of course, there'd also be some m4d skillz like stances that make you unblockable or increase the chance of crits and everything.

Finally, there'd be stealth. And it wouldn't make you invisible. Mostly just stuff to make you run faster and dodge attacks. Maybe some conditional damage, or even warping around (like, "Shadow Step: You warp behind the nearest foe. That foe takes X damage"). I think that'd be sweet.

Well, there's my much more detailed ideas...I'd love to see something like this, but I'm sure whatever they do will be awesome. Then nerfed, but still awesome ^^; Go ANet!

David Holtzman
16-11-2005, 01:20
I thought I already had.

Reduced aggro circle vs computer. Can now avoid the wall guards, but not the bodyguards.

Nope, I already covered that. Right here:


And what will stealth do? Reduce aggro circle? Useful for PvE I guess, but utterly worthless for PvP.

Aggro circle is worthless in pvp. All it does is tell you the range of your spells. How would reducing that for you be any good at all?


Harder to see, but NOT impossible, for PvP. No skill bar slots needed, just players who pay attention.

What does that mean, harder to see? Is it the case that your avatar is less easy to see? Great, I hold ctrl, see all players names, and you have a worthless attribute. Or would it get rid of that? In that case how would I see and target you? SB/MF combo again?

Or maybe you dissappear from the radar circle? Ok, I guess. Still easily defeated by holding down ctrl to see players names. I dont see how that would add to the game. Do you?


Backstab only works like it already does for warriors and rangers... you need to get them to turn their back, either by attacking from multiple directions (team play!), getting them to run away, or sneaking up on them (manually, the same way you do it now).

Team play my left foot. 8 people surround a target, they all backstab. At least 4 will attack the back/side. Instagank lord, GG. As for sneaking up on them the way we do now, what are you talking about? There's no sneaking in PvP. What are you going to say, "Oops I didn't see that large, shiny warrior even though he's right next to me, color coded, and on my radar screen?"

David Holtzman
16-11-2005, 01:23
David Holtzman, those were excelent points! You really broke it down to "If they do this right, it's broken. If they don't do it right, how is it an asassin?" They can't have in mind an asassin in the traditional sense, but if you played D2 you know that their asassin was nothing like the stealthy backstabber you describe. It was more of a martial artist/trapper. Very little stealth and no backstab at all that I recall... it's been a while. I think if they go along those lines they should choose a different name... but they won't. :)

Ok, so they make it a Martial Artist instead. Fine, but then how do they explain the story? Disseappearing into the smoke? Shadow Stepping? Not to mention the ethical ramifications of saying "assassin" but meaning "martial artist".

ZaxHavox
16-11-2005, 01:24
I'd bet stealth can only be implemented in one of 4 ways in gw:

1) A very short lasting skill
2) As a reduction in the aggro circle
3) An elite skill,gotten in the end of the game, akin to hundred blades, obsidian flesh,and so on...skills that are pretty much useless for the casual player because by the time he got em the game ended.
4) Something some other class can counter with some other skill..most likely rangers will be able to detect it somehow..Why rangers? cus that'd make them lil more welcome into parties in pve lolz. Plus it fits with the whole ranger idea.

Reason I say this is because the game has that unfortunate pvp aspect, which castrates how well they can implement something like stealth.
Actually, not many people know this, but Guild Did have stealth in the early stages. It was the fifth Ranger attribute. It is where all the dodging skill once lives, and well as many this perfect to let a ranger stalk his or her prey. It was scrapped and most of the skills weny into other pools.
The rangers was being made less poweful before the game was even in beta :lol:

SMoron
16-11-2005, 01:26
David Holtzman, those were excelent points! You really broke it down to "If they do this right, it's broken. If they don't do it right, how is it an asassin?" They can't have in mind an asassin in the traditional sense, but if you played D2 you know that their asassin was nothing like the stealthy backstabber you describe. It was more of a martial artist/trapper. Very little stealth and no backstab at all that I recall... it's been a while. I think if they go along those lines they should choose a different name... but they won't. :)
Ah but if you notice the lore behind the assassin they basically put out a skill right there and use stealth throughout the entire lore to describe the assassin as being stealthy and not being able to be seen. "'Yes, Master.' Nika fastened the silk across her face, and with a wisp of smoke, she disappeared, Shadow Stepping from the chamber" So why wouldnt they have the option to be stealthy. Yes I know assassin implies stealth but going back to Diablo the assassin didnt have much stealth at all. NCSoft Wont want to completely copy Diablo 2. Chances are stealth is a big case here.

Jiggily
16-11-2005, 01:28
So as I write this I see 16 pages of posts. I started Skimming posts after about page 9 because there was nothing new! So Far I see three camps: 1) the 'WOOHOO I can't wait' guys, 2) the 'OMG GuildWars is gonna suck now' whiners, and 3) the 'What about Pirates?' crew (ok and other specialties too)...

First I fall under the first group, mostly because I have enjoyed every new thing ANET has come up with, from Armors to new explorable areas. And everytime the give us a free update, its almost always REALLY sweet!

Now for the second group, all I have to say is Come ON! Do you really think the GuildWars team will just toss in a new class with lots of really cool moves without testing it out first? I'm sure they can't get every last little thing (they didn't with all the current classes) but when one of these classes turned out to be "The Ultimate Class" the fixed it quickly. If you really think its gonna be that terrible, then by all means don't buy chapter two, and the rest of us will probably be all the happier for it.

Third Group? Hmmm, I hope you guys are right and we get some of those cool new classes. I'm sure ANET will pick something cool, and we will all be on them like white on rice, just because they are new and cool.

See ya all in Chap 2.

Jiggily

P.S. Hey ANET, do you need any Alpha/Beta testers for Chapter 2 yet? :innocent0:

David Holtzman
16-11-2005, 01:28
@Dabbo

Increased attack speed? Then how do you balance: Illusionary Weaponry, Order of the Vampire, Order of Pain, Strength of Honor, Winnowing? I can see an ultra fast attacker using Tigers Fury with an Order Necro ripping through a team in seconds. Add in spirits and you are unstoppable. Or maybe take IW instead. Now you can't even blind them and make it effective.

As to a speed/dodge increase for stealth, don't we already have that? I think the skill is called "Dodge" and it has an elite named "Escape". That skill is an elite for a reason, and now we propose to make it a general skill for this class? Or even worse, an attribute?

calderstrake
16-11-2005, 01:29
My personal guess is a melee character. Why? Well we already have a few ranged classes, (i.e. ranger and elementalist), but only one toe-to-toe character.

I expect the Assassin to be kinda like a melee ranger, i.e. with preperations and the like for melee attacks (poison, cripple, etc.) Probably have quite lower armour level than warrior, but higher "evasion". She'll probably be more susceptible to elemental damage though.
I think this is a good speculation. If the base Ranger hase +30 AL Elemental attacks, why not have a class that has base +30 AL Physical? After all, GW is all about balance.

Scutilla
16-11-2005, 01:30
The Frog once said that 8 was a magical number. 8 skills, 8 people, 8 classes. One can safely make that assumption. Now looking at the "heros" of the game (ex. Mhenlo, Devona), there is currently one per class (or should be, sorry Mesmers). Nika will be that hero for assassins. Now, also looking at the composition of henchies, ANet sees a balanced team as one of each class.

W
Mo
Me
N
R
E
A(to replace the extra W)
X(to replace the extra Mo)

Since they figured the importance of two monks to be great, I'm sure profession X will be somewhat of a support character to take the burden away from protection monks. So, sadly to say, the next new class won't be a pirate and, even more sadly to say, druids are great at protecting...

Although I agree with your vision (a party would be the most balanced/powerful when it has one of each class), I'm afraid that this is just optimistic thinking. As it is, I could stand it if what was considered a "good party" was 2 warrs, 2 monks, and 1 of each of the others. However, according to many players the optimal party is 3 warrs, 3 monks, 2 eles, and maybe a ranger, necro, or mez if you can't get all 8 people from the three "good" classes. I myself do not think this way, but unfortunately it's how things work out in GW. I imagine that once chapter 2 comes out people will still be reluctant to change from their warr-ele-monk Holy Trinity cookie-cutter team, and assassin and whatever other new class(es) will go the way of the ranger, necro, and mez. If nothing else, Monk will always be the most desired class by far, even if the new classes prove to be somewhat popular in teams.

I do, however, agree that there will likely only be two new classes. I can't really think of any missing major fantasy archetypes right now other than the agility-based fighter, which Miss Nika takes care of. After all, they need to save some new classes for Chapter 3 :lol:




A/Mo with 2 wands... +10 energy Max combined... fastest ranged atack speed, holy dmg from smite wands, protection spells, two 11-22 holy dmg wands, that 22-44 dmg from a distance, each wand almost twice as fast as a bow naturally, plus other bonusses from the wands to healing, smiting , and protection. yet another reason dual wielding in the general sense is NOT happening.

What if you couldn't dual-wield any old weapon? In D&D you get a penalty if you dual-wield with a good-sized weapon (like a longsword) in your off hand. For GW we could just only allow one weapon class in the shield slot, like short swords or daggers. They're weapons, but they do less damage than main-hand weapons, and you can't upgrade them (like with shields, wands, and focus items). And of course, in your main hand you can equip anything, whether it be an axe, a sword, a wand, or another assassin-based item. Problem solved.

Even if that doesn't happen, I'd be against dual-weilding ranged weapons in any case, since that's just kinda silly (Diablo 2 Barbarians aside).

SMoron
16-11-2005, 01:32
So as I write this I see 16 pages of posts. I started Skimming posts after about page 9 because there was nothing new! So Far I see three camps: 1) the 'WOOHOO I can't wait' guys, 2) the 'OMG GuildWars is gonna suck now' whiners, and 3) the 'What about Pirates?' crew (ok and other specialties too)...

First I fall under the first group, mostly because I have enjoyed every new thing ANET has come up with, from Armors to new explorable areas. And everytime the give us a free update, its almost always REALLY sweet!

Now for the second group, all I have to say is Come ON! Do you really think the GuildWars team will just toss in a new class with lots of really cool moves without testing it out first? I'm sure they can't get every last little thing (they didn't with all the current classes) but when one of these classes turned out to be "The Ultimate Class" the fixed it quickly. If you really think its gonna be that terrible, then by all means don't buy chapter two, and the rest of us will probably be all the happier for it.

Third Group? Hmmm, I hope you guys are right and we get some of those cool new classes. I'm sure ANET will pick something cool, and we will all be on them like white on rice, just because they are new and cool.

See ya all in Chap 2.

Jiggily

P.S. Hey ANET, do you need any Alpha/Beta testers for Chapter 2 yet? :innocent0:

If you think they will nerf the hell out of it you will be dead wrong. Look at ranger spike. Nothing done there. Trappers. Itll basically come down to them now caring that much no matter how much people express its bad. Because the newer people wont want it changed. They will love taking advantage of it. The only option I see if providing anti-build skills. Also to comment on the versatility of a balanced group. Well even though your 3 monk....3 war...2 ele build would be nice, a ranger build seems to be the most versatile in my opinion as well as any build being run by experienced players.

Zvixo
16-11-2005, 01:39
While a warrior has the brute strength and stamina to keep pounding on opponents, an assassin would have to rely more on speed and special techniques.

That's why I think a form of exhaustion only in terms of health, movement speed, and/or accuracy could be fun.

Something like these could be cool:

Dash
For 5 seconds, you run 75% faster. When Dash ends, you are fatigued.
(fatigue: for 10 seconds you run 10% slower than normal, fatigue stacks)

Stab
If it hits, this attack will be a critical hit. For 10 seconds your attacks have an additional 10% chance to miss.


some low cost low recharge stance
You block the next attack against you. The next time you get hit by an attack, it will be a critical hit.



Then, like the elementalist, they could be capable of dropping players really quickly, but will be much more vulnerable afterwards.

winterfever
16-11-2005, 01:43
if there is a stealth skill, this might be how they do it:

The skill itself would have to be an elite probably and will DEFINITELY have to be an attribute to the Assassin's primary. With more points deposited into the attb, lengthier the skill can get. then once you attack you would have to come out of stealth mode. it should definitely cause exhaustion and it should be a skill that comes way at the end like hundred blades. (o and i hope that they'll have more elites for other chars) maybe there will be skills that can only be achieved in stealth mode.

for any of you that have no idea how an assassin can fit, go play the game Rakion. it's actually a really nice pvp game that's well balanced. there is a profession called a ninja(basically an assassin). she throws three projectiles and she's also got a special throw (which the swordsman and the blacksmith dont have). she takes advantage of others since she's very fast, and attacks faster than any other char. it's hard to explain but it's a good balanced character in that game.

David Holtzman
16-11-2005, 01:48
While a warrior has the brute strength and stamina to keep pounding on opponents, an assassin would have to rely more on speed and special techniques.

That's why I think a form of exhaustion only in terms of health, movement speed, and/or accuracy could be fun.

Something like these could be cool:

Dash
For 5 seconds, you run 75% faster. When Dash ends, you are fatigued.
(fatigue: for 10 seconds you run 10% slower than normal, fatigue stacks)


Ok, so will there be a meter for fatigue? If so, great, if not, do we have to guess? And what would be the point of taking this skill? Not to mention how ridiculous a 75% speed bonus is. Cast windborne speed on them and they'll be moving at 208% speed. My god, a war with sprint moving at 125% is fast enough, and you want to DOUBLE it?

But lets say fatigue is in there, how does that stop the ganking problem at all? Fatigue doesn't matter when the enemy is dead. It's a nice idea, I'll give you that, but I don't see how it fixes any of our problems.


Stab
If it hits, this attack will be a critical hit. For 10 seconds your attacks have an additional 10% chance to miss.

Wildblow does the crit for you already, and doesn't have the -miss chance. Doesn't seem like the skill would be worthwhile.


some low cost low recharge stance
You block the next attack against you. The next time you get hit by an attack, it will be a critical hit.

Like Riposte, only much, much worse. Doesn't seem worthwhile.


Then, like the elementalist, they could be capable of dropping players really quickly, but will be much more vulnerable afterwards.

I have no problems with elementalist because the elementalist CAN'T HIDE. If it were possible for the elementalist to hide, run up, and hit you for a bajillion damage then I'd be arguing against the elementalist as well. But elementalists don't have that option. Assassins may.

David Holtzman
16-11-2005, 01:51
for any of you that have no idea how an assassin can fit, go play the game Rakion. it's actually a really nice pvp game that's well balanced. there is a profession called a ninja(basically an assassin). she throws three projectiles and she's also got a special throw (which the swordsman and the blacksmith dont have). she takes advantage of others since she's very fast, and attacks faster than any other char. it's hard to explain but it's a good balanced character in that game.


There's a very key sentence in that. I'll quote it again:


it's hard to explain but it's a good balanced character in that game.

In that game. Does that game have IW? Or orders? Or strength of honor? The assassin can attack as fast as he wants to in the game that doesn't have those. In a game with them, please show me the balance?

Смерть
16-11-2005, 01:54
Just fun speculation to waste time ;)


It would be interesting if Assassin had a set of skills set in "conditions". This would be an area where the Assassin would be able to put the different conditions of the game into their attacks. It would be a little more expansive then what the ranger does now with arrows. A/Me + epidemic could be a plague dealer ;p.

It would be cool if ANET fit in a "thief" division of skills into the assassin also.

Cant wait to try the emotes!! :happy14:

~CMEPTb :winking47

Izaru
16-11-2005, 02:05
This is my suggestion for a martial artist, if people hate sins, it was posted a while back for Nov. Suggestions. Just add duel wielding daggers and booyah a
'sin!



Martial Artist Proffession



Description:

Possibly a new proffesion, that uses his bare fists and knuckle weapons. His main focus on the field of battle is very high DPS, and skills that can link to each other with High damage. The martial artist has iron skin (doesn't really look like iron ) that is immune to blades (also know as it has bonus armor against swords and axes, not hammers or bows) weak against spells of magic though.

Story:

The Martial Artist was a branch from the Monk order, they focused on the physical tallents the gods gave them, but they didn't believe in swords or bows, they were more focused on their inner strength as humans.

Attributes:

-Physical Focus*
-a martial artist only attribute, that lowers skills cost. Used for physical demanding skills like buffing damage, or speeding up character. (but lowers damage)
-Fist Mastery
-critical hits with fists and knuckles, alows faster DPS for every point
-Combo Mastery
-martial artist skills can be chained together for added damage if this attribute is 9 or higher. (combos are powerful, but at a heavy price)
-Holy Fist Mastery
-makes your fist have holy damage, but lowers dps. Increases critical hits and raises damage by alot. (works well with combos)

Looks like:

wears a clothing like a monk, but with steel pieces attached like armor, head armor is a head bandana, has hair! and is asian influenced (sorta like solid snake )

Pros:

Anti Warrior, can dish out speedy attacks with cheap costing rapid skills. Or high powered combos.


Cons:

the martial artist is very weak against spell casters, combos cost high for builds, doesn't do alot of damage without combos, dps is more of annoyance.

Example skills:

-Fury Palm: 2 hit strong blows, may stun may be linked to "Fire Palm, Ice Palm, or bleeding Palm". (combo mastery) 7 sec. cooldown cost 8 may be lowered with physical focus
-Thousand fists: for 5 secounds DPS is X times faster may be linked to "Chain knuckle, Knee stomp". (fist mastery, 2 combo mastery to combo) 10 sec. cooldown cost 10 may be lowered with physical focus
-Dash of Light: your character dashes the way he or she is facing forward in high speed, who ever he she dashes through recieves X Physical Damage. Cannot be linked. (Physical focus) 10 sec. cooldown cost 15 may be lowered
*I think this is a clever skill, It my get rigged though?

May be changed in stats but you get the idea right? lol if you have any thoughts on making this a better proffession, meaning so it wouldn't be cheap; leave one!

:happy34:

Mytoehurts
16-11-2005, 02:05
I dont know how they will make this new assassin work but I am pretty sure of a couple things.

First the weapons that the assassin will be using will be low dmg melee attacks.
Second the weapons can be thrown, kinda like a dagger, but with a short range.
I can even see that the assassin will have awesome evade skills not block since they will be weak in armor but the evade skills will be very temporary and take alot of time to recharge. (Good Runner?) I can also see A-Net making the assassins aggro bubble smaller. But remember if we have the class to choose from so does the enemy!!!!!

Since the assassin will have low dmg melee attacks they will have status depending attacks, not to add more statuses (although they might have status inflicting attacks), but to actually make use of the status. For example, if an enemy is bleeding the attack would cause major dmg with the skill made for bleeding enemies.(Kinda like a "Poke the Wound with this very sharp knive and then twist") Like its said before in this thread the major thing about the assassin will be that fact that it will have a super version of Final Thrust. Since we have Final Thrust already and its if the guy has 50% or less HP the attack dmg doubles the assassin might have the opposite. But I do know this, the assassin will not get dmg if he fails to kill the opponent, I could see that there would be a "dazed" moment after each major skill making the asssassin vunerable. In other words, the assassin is an exact copy of the Air Elementalist seen in GW chapter 1, but instead of it being magic its melee and the dmg depends on the status of the enemy. I really believe that this new class will be physical status oriented dmg. But thats just my thoughts. AND I thought I'd add this since I like this emoticon...... :worship:

Android Warslave
16-11-2005, 02:39
I expect the assassin will fill a role similar to a warriors.

So, I'd expect that assassins will be a PITA to kill. I would expect natural evasion, either primary skill or armor based, as well as strong magic resistance.

I would expect that assassins would also have a strong ability to dish out warrior level melee damage for little to no energy.



As for dual weild... All I have to say on that is this: Illusionary weapon.

Zvixo
16-11-2005, 02:41
Ok, so will there be a meter for fatigue? If so, great, if not, do we have to guess? And what would be the point of taking this skill? Not to mention how ridiculous a 75% speed bonus is. Cast windborne speed on them and they'll be moving at 208% speed. My god, a war with sprint moving at 125% is fast enough, and you want to DOUBLE it?

But lets say fatigue is in there, how does that stop the ganking problem at all? Fatigue doesn't matter when the enemy is dead. It's a nice idea, I'll give you that, but I don't see how it fixes any of our problems.

Those were just concepts of mechanics, and balance hasn't yet quite been taken into account, you really should have understood that. If I meant them to be exact, then I would have given cost,casting time, recharge, and even some other extra effects.

If you want to add the balance issue right away though...

Obviously the dash duration should be really short, in that case, even 5 seconds might be too high.
Say...dash is 2 seconds. Fatigue has a much longer duration (if 10 seconds ends up being low, increase it) and stacks.
For 2 seconds, speed is greatly increased. Right when that wears off, the runner runs at a slower rate, causing the next speed boost to be less effective, and that goes on if the runner keeps using a skill that causes fatigue, until the runner eventually can hardly run.

I said something like those skills could be cool, not those exact skills would be cool.


Ganks:
Shouldn't assassins be the best gankers though? For an assassin build to effectively gank, the entire bar should have to be set for ganking wouldn't it?
If the assassins don't use their skills wisely, for instance by using them too soon, they'll just end up being incredibly vulnerable.

Overpowered or underpowered means balancing will take place.



Wildblow does the crit for you already, and doesn't have the -miss chance. Doesn't seem like the skill would be worthwhile.

Wild Blow has a 5 energy cost and 5 second recharge.
You can make this cost 0 energy, and a 4 second recharge for example. (again, numbers just as concept) or additional damage on top of the critical hit.



Like Riposte, only much, much worse. Doesn't seem worthwhile.

Again, additional effects, cost, recharge have not been mentioned.



I have no problems with elementalist because the elementalist CAN'T HIDE. If it were possible for the elementalist to hide, run up, and hit you for a bajillion damage then I'd be arguing against the elementalist as well. But elementalists don't have that option. Assassins may.

Those mechanics can be balanced.
Even the hide thing can be balanced by for example causing a decrease in armor after the skill has been used.
Besides that, hiding will probably some sort of stance won't it? That means it wont stack with the uber fast running thingy.
Also, any enchantments cast when going into hiding might be removed, hiding may be of limited duration when in radar range.(hey, speculation, no?)

So please, instead by simply saying proposed skills aren't worth it, do give some examples of tweaks that might make them balanced after all.

hjrrockies
16-11-2005, 02:48
Here is my view of how the assasin will work.

In terms of high damage and one hit KO's, an assassin's attacks should be highly conditional, like "Target Must be below X% health and bleeding" then you could have a 1 hit KO

For stealth, I think that they will have some skills to raise speed and make the agrro smaller. Other skills would make it so that the assassin is only on the radar if they are in "view" (a pie-piece of the radar) of an enemy, or if they have been sighted and called by another enemy.

They should also be able to teleport (shadow step) and use massive speed boost skills.

EDIT: As mentioned before, the actual mechanics arn't set in stone or worked out.

tarathial
16-11-2005, 02:58
I like this idea a lot. But maybe i don't have this right if it is a combo between Warior and Ranger then could you be an assassin/Elem ( for example) and get 3 classes???

mrankh
16-11-2005, 03:09
I am very excited also about this new class. As has been said, Guild Wars will HAVE to balance it to git in puzzle pices in pvp and pve. There is no imbalance in gw that is incounterable. If there is a second class released, maybe it will be a counter to the assasin? Also seems to me like this might be similar to the assasin in d2, but not the same skills because its a completely different game! From reading the lore, there will definetely be some kinda of dissapering or stealth act, also it will have to be able to be compatiable with the other classes or they wouldnt make it. So C2 FTW I am so excited. Im sure well be updated with more information as C2 is develped.

Dabbo
16-11-2005, 03:39
@Dabbo

Increased attack speed? Then how do you balance: Illusionary Weaponry, Order of the Vampire, Order of Pain, Strength of Honor, Winnowing? I can see an ultra fast attacker using Tigers Fury with an Order Necro ripping through a team in seconds. Add in spirits and you are unstoppable. Or maybe take IW instead. Now you can't even blind them and make it effective.

As to a speed/dodge increase for stealth, don't we already have that? I think the skill is called "Dodge" and it has an elite named "Escape". That skill is an elite for a reason, and now we propose to make it a general skill for this class? Or even worse, an attribute?

As for the attack speed thing, I don't know how it would work in balancing...I think it would be fine, once you factor in the weakness of the weapon and the tiny increments that it'd be increased by. I'm not talking 5% per point; I was thinking more along the lines of something less than 1% faster per attribute point.

And the stealth thing (in my concept) wouldn't have an innate bonus to speed, just skills that focus on that. Sorry if I wasn't specific enough. I'm just saying that the skills in that category would focus more on that sort of think. Y'know, running around, dogding stuff, warping places, backstabbing...assassin stuff!

David Holtzman
16-11-2005, 04:15
If you want to add the balance issue right away though...

Well thats really what I'm on about. I mean, I posted some asides to your skills, but that wasn't really all that relevent to the point I am trying to make. That was more to help you develop the skills you were thinking about.


Ganks:
Shouldn't assassins be the best gankers though?

Not necessarily. But you assume something that I am unwilling to grant here: that ganking should exist at all. When a team of 8 ganks one person, I can see that. It's 8v1 after all. But a 1v1 gank? No thanks. All that means is I need 8 1v1 gankers and your team is gone. That's not balanced, and that's not fun.


For an assassin build to effectively gank, the entire bar should have to be set for ganking wouldn't it?

Not necessarily. A stealthed team of 8 A/E could do an Aftershock spike fairly easily, with 1 person having both EQ and AS. That's nowhere near the whole build. In fact, that's only 9/64 skills for a team. In fact, most gank/spike builds use only one or two skills to gank. See Chain Lightning, Obsidian Flame, Feast of Corruption, Shadow Strike/Dark Pact, etc.


If the assassins don't use their skills wisely, for instance by using them too soon, they'll just end up being incredibly vulnerable.

Sure, but all that proves is that a good build can fail in the hands of a bad player, which is nice but doesn't address the issue when it's in the hand of a good one.


Overpowered or underpowered means balancing will take place.

Sure, and I am arguing that as far as I can see it (and so far no examples of other possible situations have been shown), it is not possible to both have stealth/backstab balanced and to have them worthwhile skills that increase the game.


Those mechanics can be balanced.
Even the hide thing can be balanced by for example causing a decrease in armor after the skill has been used.

Which would do nothing. You stealth, run up, EQ/AS/CW Guild Lord, recieve reduced armor and... nothing. Because the game is now over. Your reduction in armor is irrelevent after the battle is done.


Besides that, hiding will probably some sort of stance won't it? That means it wont stack with the uber fast running thingy.

Who cares? Even at normal speed you can cross the GvG map fairly quickly. You could cast Armor of Mist for a nice 18second speed boost, go stealth, and run that way if you wanted. Or one person could use Charge! to do it and stealth last.


Also, any enchantments cast when going into hiding might be removed, hiding may be of limited duration when in radar range.(hey, speculation, no?)

Ok. Sure. Lets say all enchants are removed when in stealth. Ok, so someone uses charge. That's a shout, so it's not removed. Further, people are still more than capable of the Stealth/EQ/AS/CW spike on the guild lord.

Or being in radar range reduces duration? Fine, in range of who? The enemy? Do NPCs count? What about maps with more than one team, do all of them count or just some? And then, if the duration is reduced, how is stealth a worthwhile skill? The only reason to stealth is within radar range of the enemy, since when you are outside the range they can't see you anyways. Why not just say "it will be a short duration". But if that is the case, then how is it a useful skill? You can turn invulnerable for 6 seconds but not do anything?


So please, instead by simply saying proposed skills aren't worth it, do give some examples of tweaks that might make them balanced after all.

I'm not really trying to degrade your skill ideas, I'm trying to continue to prove my premise about stealth/backstab.

David Holtzman
16-11-2005, 04:21
As for the attack speed thing, I don't know how it would work in balancing...I think it would be fine, once you factor in the weakness of the weapon and the tiny increments that it'd be increased by. I'm not talking 5% per point; I was thinking more along the lines of something less than 1% faster per attribute point.

The weakness of the weapon is irrelevent. Let's say it does 1 dmg. You have one bonder with Strength of Honor. Now you do 1 dmg + 10 dmg. Then you add in Order of Pain + Order of the Vampire. Now you do 1 dmg + 10 dmg + 17 dmg + 17 dmg, and you do it as quickly as you can attack. Use a stance like Tigers Fury or Frenzy or Flurry and up your attack speed even more, and you will have a lightning fast team of attackers doing enormous amounts of damage. Or, let's say you are worried about blind. So, you make 8 A/Me, and take Illusionary Weaponry. At 12 Illusion it does some 32 dmg or so. Use a stance with it, and you will hit EVERY time (you can't miss with IW) as fast as you can attack. And your damage now ignores armor, so you will rip a team to pieces. And THAT is what is unbalanced.


And the stealth thing (in my concept) wouldn't have an innate bonus to speed, just skills that focus on that. Sorry if I wasn't specific enough. I'm just saying that the skills in that category would focus more on that sort of think. Y'know, running around, dogding stuff, warping places, backstabbing...assassin stuff!

Yeah, and I'm saying that any concept that involved a worthwhile backstab/stealth option is unbalanced. I don't care who brings it up, you, Anet, God, whomever, I cannot see a way in which while retaining value as a skill it does not become unbalanced.

RagnarokFF
16-11-2005, 04:21
I really hope this class can have its roles in PvE not just geared towards PvP

I just dont want to see this class rejected by groups in PvE

Precha NBK
16-11-2005, 04:25
If I remember correctly I think I heard the Frog (developer), mention something about 2 new professions. Of course I could have misread that.

And thats why a month or 2 ago they have a poll post about what 2 new professions everyone would like to see. Assassin was prolly the biggest one. Another one that caught my eye is a character called a Mechanist.

This character would deal with techincal devices, steam powered, gears and cogs, ect. With explosions and bomb type devices, not like an ele, but like timed bombs. Heck, you could have a spell called Timebomb.

Timebomb Lay a timebomb at target foes location. For 15 to 5 seconds bomb timer ticks down to detenate and deal 20 to 85 damage to all adjacent, or something like that.

Or you could have something like a Stickybomb (please don't sue Halo, ahem) Which basically works like the other one but attaches to a character and deals less damage

Anyways, I won't get off onto this some ideas LOL. The reason I bring this up is......ok your having a bit of a problem with balancing the Assassin both in PvE and PvP?
* Fine, you bring this character in to counter each other. The Mechanist can have devices that detect assassin's stealth, or at least hint an assassin is near. On the other hand, the mechanist could be good for controlling things. Launching devices that slow and or even stop a character for a short period of time, lets call them cage or nets. The assassin could use their lockpicking skills to disable these traps, for PvP.
* Plus, in PvE these Mechanists could be the new controler to help aid Elementalists. Not to bring them back to full fledged nuking, but enough to help the spells out a bit.
* Finally, this is a new character that, at least to my knowledge, haven't seen before in an rpg. (at least one I've played.) Sorda like GW's messmer. So with the new character, you might could bring in a new fan base to GW. ;)

Zeittotschlager
16-11-2005, 04:29
Hehe... David, I agree with you for the most part. Looks like they'll have stealth in some form, though. We can only speculate and we'll have to trust that it's not going to be broken. I wouldn't have had a problem with trusting them if it weren't for this last patch though... :) Boy was that broken on release...

Had an idea for Backstab though. Granted, the "if you're behind them" thing is kinda broken for the reasons you stated.... x key and mobbing the target. But in my experience the warrior's "fleeing target" skills are pretty difficult to use. Seems to me Backstab could use this same condition. Only fleeing targets. Give it a huge recharge and a 50% chance to miss while not in stealth mode.

Of course by this point it hardly becomes worth using. :) Which brings us back to your initial point. How does this add to the game? Just have to wait and see I'm afraid. :(

Dabbo
16-11-2005, 04:36
Hmm...I see your point with the illusionary weaponry. I think the think with the Orders and Strength of Honor would be unlikely, but you're completely right about IW. Maybe they could just make it another strength-like thing with armor penetration or somethin' like that, or even a SMALL increase in the chances of getting a critical hit. That seems like it'd still be in-character for an assassin.

And with the backstabby stuff, I'm not talking, like, a stance that's like "You do +X damage when hitting an enemy from behind." I'm thinking more along the lines of skills that do stuff like "You warp behind target foe. Target foe takes X damage." It could still be affected by armor (though probably made unblockable/evadable), but it would probably have to have a large recast time (at least 15 seconds), be elite, and not do more than 35 damage, probably in the 5-27 range or something like that. That way, you get a very assassin-y skill, but it's not so overpowered that you can just fly around the battlefield doin' that to people left and right. Also, other skills could be made where you just warp around. They could use adrenaline and not do any damage to enemies, but they'd be pretty useful. Maybe "You warp behind a randomly chosen foe." Like the Necromancer spells, but with enemies, not corpses.

Heh heh, this is sorta fun ^^ I like batting ideas around like this...I hope I'm not bothering anyone.

Southsider
16-11-2005, 04:37
i think that the class specific skill could be duel wield....if this will be a mele charactor. also i would think it would use DoT skills and maybe some kind of throwing wepon. as for stealth.....i dont know

Southsider
16-11-2005, 04:40
maybe for the stealth part its more of a shadow thing...kinda like the d2 shadow warrior...you leave your own body and become a shado for x seconds or something....just and idea though

winterfever
16-11-2005, 04:50
There's a very key sentence in that. I'll quote it again:



In that game. Does that game have IW? Or orders? Or strength of honor? The assassin can attack as fast as he wants to in the game that doesn't have those. In a game with them, please show me the balance?

yea the balance will be that the assassin will have a very low melee dmg, since she is fast. and i dunno how to incorporate this, but she should have combos (like rakion) yet it can be out of control. u might be doing a combo while ur opponent has just dodged it and now u will get ur @$$ rammed with a hammer.
i also think the assassin should have little hp and around the same energy as the warrior and maybe the adrenaline system should be used. all i know is that with monk smite buffs like strength of honor it wont deal as much dmg as u put on a ranger or an axe war since she doesnt even have a lot of melee dmg to stack onto. she shoudl also be fragile with low armor rating. and finally necro skills and mesmer skills that lower attack speed will come into huge use i hope.

CHIPS
16-11-2005, 05:04
I have another idea. Maybe the role of Assassin should be TOTALLY opposite to a warrior. Warrior are "tanks", where Assassins are pure damage.

If stealth are to be implemented onto the Assassin. Here are my suggestions:

-Assassin have a armor class of 30. (yes, their last armor is worst than warrior 's first)

-Assasin can use two one-handed weapons. But with such equipments, they must use skills along the Dual Weapon line, not the weapon 's orginal skill line. They will only get the bonus from the first weapon of the set, not both. And each weapon only deals 60% of their orginal damage. This totals 120%. They gain 2 adrenline, not one, per attack.

-Assasin 's stealth can be wildly used. While in Stealth mode, Assasin suffers a energy degen of 4. (that is, -1 energy degen in stealth mode, since their normal energy regen is 3) This mean an Assasin will need to hide somewhere and rest before making the next kill. After casting stealth, it will take 5 seconds before they actually disappear.

-If an Assasin runs out of energy while in stealth mode, their stealth ends.

-Assasin have a set of skills that can only be used when in stealth mode. They do around 100 damage to a mage, and causes conditions like cripple. After that, they got other moves to finish a target off.

-Any other skills can only be used after an Assasin come out of stealth mode.

-Only a primary class Assasin should use Stealth. Other classes try using it will suffer an energy degen of -11, instead of -4.

David Holtzman
16-11-2005, 05:12
Hehe... David, I agree with you for the most part. Looks like they'll have stealth in some form, though. We can only speculate and we'll have to trust that it's not going to be broken. I wouldn't have had a problem with trusting them if it weren't for this last patch though... :) Boy was that broken on release...

I have a great deal of trust in Anet fixing broken things. I have absolutely no trust in them not putting out broken things. Spirits, Smite, the latest PvE updates, etc. All broken, then fixed. Of course, smite was basically reduced to non viability, but that's sort of my whole point.

David Holtzman
16-11-2005, 05:21
Hmm...I see your point with the illusionary weaponry. I think the think with the Orders and Strength of Honor would be unlikely, but you're completely right about IW. Maybe they could just make it another strength-like thing with armor penetration or somethin' like that, or even a SMALL increase in the chances of getting a critical hit. That seems like it'd still be in-character for an assassin.

They run orders nowadays with IWAY and Ranger spike, why would they not run it with some ultra fast melee build?

As to increased crit hit attribute, sure, seems fine. I don't see why that would be a template any better than the war we have now.


And with the backstabby stuff, I'm not talking, like, a stance that's like "You do +X damage when hitting an enemy from behind." I'm thinking more along the lines of skills that do stuff like "You warp behind target foe. Target foe takes X damage." It could still be affected by armor (though probably made unblockable/evadable), but it would probably have to have a large recast time (at least 15 seconds), be elite, and not do more than 35 damage, probably in the 5-27 range or something like that. That way, you get a very assassin-y skill, but it's not so overpowered that you can just fly around the battlefield doin' that to people left and right.

Sure, that would be balanced. It just wouldn't be useful. 35 damage and a warp? As an elite? Sounds like a weak Necrotic Traversal. Why wouldn't you take something like Eviscerate and do some real damage. With fast attack you'd build up adrenaline fast.


Also, other skills could be made where you just warp around. They could use adrenaline and not do any damage to enemies, but they'd be pretty useful. Maybe "You warp behind a randomly chosen foe." Like the Necromancer spells, but with enemies, not corpses.

Heh heh, this is sorta fun ^^ I like batting ideas around like this...I hope I'm not bothering anyone.

OK, well if you like batting around ideas, take the challenge I brought up in my first post: Is there a way to make stealth balanced but still worthwhile and adding to the game?

David Holtzman
16-11-2005, 05:26
yea the balance will be that the assassin will have a very low melee dmg, since she is fast. and i dunno how to incorporate this, but she should have combos (like rakion) yet it can be out of control. u might be doing a combo while ur opponent has just dodged it and now u will get ur @$$ rammed with a hammer.
i also think the assassin should have little hp and around the same energy as the warrior and maybe the adrenaline system should be used. all i know is that with monk smite buffs like strength of honor it wont deal as much dmg as u put on a ranger or an axe war since she doesnt even have a lot of melee dmg to stack onto. she shoudl also be fragile with low armor rating. and finally necro skills and mesmer skills that lower attack speed will come into huge use i hope.

Great, so an ultra fast attacking melee character. Builds up adrenaline ultra fast, sounds like a massive KD hammer warrior. "For Great Justice" + ultra fast attack = huge adrenaline and massive knockdowns.

And you still haven't addressed my question about Orders or IW.

As to the HP/Mana of the assassin, I don't care. I'm here to talk about stealth/backstab and how they can't be balanced and still be worthwhile.

GADefence
16-11-2005, 05:33
I have another idea. Maybe the role of Assassin should be TOTALLY opposite to a warrior. Warrior are "tanks", where Assassins are pure damage.

Warrior being a tank purely? You haven't met good warriors, have you.


OK, well if you like batting around ideas, take the challenge I brought up in my first post: Is there a way to make stealth balanced but still worthwhile and adding to the game?

With the way maps work now, no, not really. Overpowered or not worth it is the only two real ways it would turn out. If the maps had places you could actually hide in, then making you "invisible" on the radar map would be a great thing. Apart from that. . . No, not really.

As for backstab. . . I'm more or less thinking the only real way to do that would be the make a small damage bonus, but a good interuption bonus from backward attacks. I still don't know why assasins would be added to GuildWars though. . . The game is really, really not built to have them.

mocax
16-11-2005, 05:58
probably skills on diversion, distraction, evasion
"flash" a bomb, and opponents blinded or dazed for sometime.
"flash" a boob, and opponents transfixed for sometime...

and underhand attacks like eye-poke, crotch kick/grab

and skills that increase critical hit chances or unblockable/unavoidable.

FireballX
16-11-2005, 06:24
My vision of an assassin follows below. Pure speculation but that's what this entire bloody thread is anyhow.

The assassin cannot hold its ground against a warrior in open combat - instead, it prefers to dance in combat, making strikes quickly and harassing enemies without being hit, and doing major damage when opportunities arise. The assassin autocrits on all attacks against active foes (it would not autocrit on foes not doing anything. Crits during a casting, crit during movement, crit during attacking.)

As such, the assassin uses light melee weapons and short range attacks to accomplish its means.

Primary attribute - Agility. For every point in agility skill recharge times are cut down, just like fast casting. ~50percent reduction in recharge times at 16 agility. Skills under this line would be cheap and low damaging skills, along with speed boosts and evasion (not block) stances.

One special skillset under this would be the 'rush attack' types of attacks. Provided your selected enemy is in your aggro circle, when you select the attack you *immediately* warp to range of your enemy and throw an attack.

Attribute - Stealth. No innate effect. Higher points in stealth allow the assassin to perform high damage strikes and to get behind enemy lines. Skills under this line include stealth stances and 'special' strikes.

A further explanation of the above. 'Stealthed' would simply mean that you do not show up on the radar or under a 'ctrl', you blend in somewhat with the environment and gain minor chances of evasion, but most of all you *cannot* be targeted for physical attack, the same way spellbreaker means you cannot have enemy spells casted on you. However, you move much slower while under a 'stealth' stance. Stealth is lost on physical attack.

As for 'special' strikes, these are attacks that cost quite a bit of energy but do absurd amounts of damage PROVIDED a condition is met. For example:

Headshot (elite)- 15 energy, 10 sec recharge, assassin's attack (must equip an 'assassin weapon', see below). Lose all stances. Do +4..16 damage. If target was casting a spell, that spell is interrupted, the caster is dazed for 3...9 seconds, and you do +35...95 damage. Your skillbar is blacked out for 15...5 seconds. This is an elite skill.

A nonelite: Opportunist's strike - 10 energy, 8 second recharge, assassin's attack. If target is attacking, that opponent takes +10...30 damage.

Attribute - Melee Dexterity. No inherent effect, boosts effectiveness of melee 'assassin' weapons - claws, knives. Underpowered version of swordsmanship line with similar skills, but designed to open your skillset to assassin weapons for melee assassin attacks.

Attribute - Ranged Dexterity. No inherent effect, boosts effectiveness of range assassin weapons - throwing knives, darts. Underpowered mix of marksmanship and wilderness survival, and the range of these attacks would be about 75% the range of a shortbow. Opens skillset to ranged assassin attacks.

All of the above is speculation and can be dismissed at any time.

Haradrim
16-11-2005, 06:47
Assasin's dance better damn well be "THE ROBOT."

I can see it now.

WTK
16-11-2005, 06:51
i can see it now...

"preperation xxxx" - For the next xx seconds, if your melee attacks hit, they do shadow damage instead of physical damage.

Fae Winter
16-11-2005, 07:10
Aggro circle is worthless in pvp. All it does is tell you the range of your spells. How would reducing that for you be any good at all?

GvG. Archers and Footmen.


What does that mean, harder to see? Is it the case that your avatar is less easy to see? Great, I hold ctrl, see all players names, and you have a worthless attribute. Or would it get rid of that? In that case how would I see and target you? SB/MF combo again?

Or maybe you dissappear from the radar circle? Ok, I guess. Still easily defeated by holding down ctrl to see players names. I dont see how that would add to the game. Do you?

Yep. You have to make people actually click on the avatar. I don't see this as a major problem. Hardly an SB/MF combo. (BTW, 2 E/Me, Water + Earth, Arcane Mimickry + Obsidian Flesh / Mist Form. Hasn't broken the game so far.)


Team play my left foot. 8 people surround a target, they all backstab. At least 4 will attack the back/side. Instagank lord, GG.

Um? Is that the way it works now when 4 warriors surround the lord? Your conclusion (instagank) does not follow from your premises (8 backstabbers surround the lord).

But yeah, if you let 8 people beat on your lord long enough he'll get ganked. Sort of like what happens now when your foes go around the back route and try to gank your lord. Again, it hasn't broken GvG so far.


As for sneaking up on them the way we do now, what are you talking about? There's no sneaking in PvP. What are you going to say, "Oops I didn't see that large, shiny warrior even though he's right next to me, color coded, and on my radar screen?"

Nobody on your team ever gets pincered? Enveloped? Hit by catapults? Sniped from the walls while defending a melee sortie? Attacked through the back entrance to the guild? Had the flag stand stolen while engaging the main part of the team?

Honestly, I think we just evaluate the magnitude of the problems differently. You see stealth as being impossible to implement because of these problems. I see these as fairly trivial issues to solve, once you're aware that they exist. Don't make backstab so powerful it instaganks the Lord. Don't make stealth impenetrable with the Mark I Eyeball, while still making the stealth user go unnoticed more easily. *shrug* I just don't find these problems unsuperable.

winterfever
16-11-2005, 07:19
maybe their primary attb should be an evasion thing. like with 16 into "stealth" they have a X% of dodging melee and a X% of dodging magic missiles, X% dodging arrows.

snowkissed
16-11-2005, 07:28
I'm going to have to agree with the person who asked:
"Is this Guildwars or Diablo III?"

Then again, when you think about it, I think my boyfriend hit the nail right on the head:
"GW is like the Wal-Mart of MMORPGs. It's cheap, but you get what you pay for."

Now, don't argue as to whether or not this is a MMORPG. Who cares. Otherwise, it's true.

We're getting clichéd fantasy roles in a clichéd game. It's unavoidable. Issues I see with a stealth-driven assassin class have to do mainly with playing with henchies. No doubt you can make the class work with any player group, be it PvE or PvP, but with henchies ANet would essentially have to put in some sort of command system for henchies: "Stay here" "Follow" "Fight". Do note that I said stealth-driven assassin.

Someone else brought up the point that assassin does not mean a person who kills in just so many hits. An assassin is a killer.

One who murders by surprise attack, especially one who carries out a plot to kill a prominent person.
Personally, I think it's safe to say that ANet will not be comforming to this definition. This assassin profession will rather be some sort of glorified warrior that uses the elements of surprise, perhaps speed and/or perhaps some form of stealth. It's nothing more than a misnomer for a goodlooking class with fancy new skills that could otherwise have been attached to Warrior or perhaps even Ranger to invite more melee-Rangers. Or perhaps the assassin also uses ranged attacks? We can obviously only speculate at this point.

In any case, I will have to sadly lay out my disappointment in ANet's choice for a new profession. Something more imaginative would have been appreciated - any of the ideas brought up by community members (Heck, even pirate/swashbuckler). Clichés are unavoidable, but a properly named one would be more appreciated. Though one could argue the correctness of the current professions in the game. Also, ANet's promise for balanced professions and such will no doubt cause problems in the creation, conception and realization of new and, dare I hope for this, innovative professions. (Rather, the snake has firmly caught onto its tail and can do nothing but swallow.)

But alas, let us hope ANet will surprise with another profession, or are we instead expected to be satisfied and enthralled with simply one?

FireballX
16-11-2005, 08:37
I will pre-empt ANet with a brand new, completely original class. Completely original.

The Marketing Executive.

You see, at the Academy he didn't really peter out. Not tough enough to be a warrior, not mentally focused enough to be a spellcaster, and he can't aim for squat with a bow. So, like many others who couldn't find their niche, he went and got himself an MBA instead.

The Marketing Executive manipulates enemies and their way of thought, for example, convincing them that damage taken is actually beneficial, whilst selling defective and poisonous food as 'quaint' and 'delicious in the olde-style sense'. He is better than even mesmers at manipulation, with such skills as 'Subliminal Messages' forcing opponents to randomly cast offensive spells on themselves in the mistaken belief that a lightning bolt 'will rejuvenate the soul'.

He is unsurpassed as a character and should be played by all.

Hun Hawk
16-11-2005, 08:52
my ideas for assassin:
1. no stealth (it would be hard to counter in many cases)
2. equip with melee or throwing weapons (I'd prefer dual)
3. special melee attack and/or preparation with conditions (like poison, deep wound) also could use some traps (different than ranger)
I think there could the following skills:

infuse poison: poisoning adn weaken for 4-14 sec,; ((adr 8))

poison gas: all adjancent foes are poisoned for 4-12 sec, ((en 15, rech 30))

counter poison: remove poison condition; ((en: 5 rech: 10 sec))

throat cut: bleeding and slowed by 33% for 4-18 sec adr: 7

disguise: /stance/ foes cannot attack the assassin for 4-15 sec, attacking enemy would remove this stance, ((en: 5, rech: 45 sec))

charm: /hex/: for 6-16 sec enemy with charm on him doesn't attack, but can be attacked

silence: /skill/: for 4-12 sec move and attack 33% faster ((en 5, rech 45))

Strangle: /skill/: foe cannot cas spell for 4-10 sec ((adr: 8))

4. attributes
main attribute would be dexterity: each point in dex adds 1% chance to hit with critical attack

weapons: katar, dagger, throwing dagger

just some ideas :idea:

paradoxz
16-11-2005, 09:13
I do like the logical thinking as wel as the out-side the box combo busting. Kudo's to the whole EQ/AS mention for 'invisibility' though stealth will likely not work in this manner. More likely it will work like a Necro's Traversal/Consume Corpse spell.

I dont know how many of you played Fable, but there was a skill line there that let you basically jump behind an opponent, and the greater the level of the skill, the further away you could be before activating it. Still 'could' be a problem for the EQ/AS combo, but if the 'teleporting' took a moment, could give you a chance to prepare. But as for something that could hinder this, 3-5 second skill blackout once you come out of invisiblity. Tactically this would allow you to get into place without much hinderance, still give you an edge, but not an insurmountable one. Again, makes bringing certain skills that aren't normally used in pvp/gvg have an actual purpose.

Dual-Wielding is definately an interesting problem. Anet has already capped attack speed, but in this sense when stacking other enhancements like Orders you would double their effects, which 'could' lead to game balance issues. I say 'could' because we dont know the exact implementation of the dual-wielding system as of yet. If it works as it did in say FFXI, then overall attack speed of each weapon was increased by 2.5x its base, and lowered with greater skill in Dual-Wielding....which would work since only at its max level, i.e. 12 attribute would you see base speeds of 1.0 or 'normal' with a runes able to actually decrese this....so in essence a totally speciallized build that would then rely heavily on other skills/professions to buff them, in other words, just as easily counterable as an IWAY team.


But, meh, those are just little things in my mind and no real big deal. Sure, the class might not be what everyone thinks the word Assassin means, but so what? Its just a label. Another melee class is definately needed, and while Warriors have Strength for Armor Penetration, perhaps Assassins will have something similar that will increase Crit % for those really devestating blows, you know, the unpredictable ones. So far I'm loving this little tease from Anet, might actually keep me playing a while longer as I was just about to give it up.

David Holtzman
16-11-2005, 09:14
GvG. Archers and Footmen.

That's GvG. What about comps? Topk? Teams? And its only a small section of GvG at that. The NPCs are nothing more than an annoyance realy. That cripple is mostly irrelevent as you aren't going anywhere, and your reduced aggro circle is worthless if you want to attack. No matter how small your aggro circle, if you want to attack with your melee assassin then you MUST get the enemies into range.


Yep. You have to make people actually click on the avatar. I don't see this as a major problem. Hardly an SB/MF combo. (BTW, 2 E/Me, Water + Earth, Arcane Mimickry + Obsidian Flesh / Mist Form. Hasn't broken the game so far.)

Yep what? You quoted two possibilities, to which do you refer? In either one your atttribute is valueless, so I don't see what you are trying to argue. Are you simply agreeing that the attribute is valueless?

As to SB/MF, it's simply the closest ingame combo. OF doesn't work due to slowdown and +AL. Of course, a truly stealthed target couldn't be interrupted either (something you can do with the SB/MF), since he can't be targeted.


Um? Is that the way it works now when 4 warriors surround the lord? Your conclusion (instagank) does not follow from your premises (8 backstabbers surround the lord).

Do warriors have a skill like backstab? If not, then I don't see why you are bringing them up. Further, I said 8, not 4. One is double the other. In order for backstab to live up to its nature it must do obscene damage when behind the target. If you put 8 people around another person, half will be behind it (effectively, and assuming 2 sections). That's 4 backstabs. Then they switch places and the other 4 do it. 8 obscenely damaging hits done very quickly = GG ghostly. He has extra HP, but not that much.


But yeah, if you let 8 people beat on your lord long enough he'll get ganked. Sort of like what happens now when your foes go around the back route and try to gank your lord. Again, it hasn't broken GvG so far.

I'm sorry, did I miss something? Is the assassin already in the game? Because unless he is, I fail to see how you can tell me that "it hasn't broken GvG so far." It doesn't exist yet, so it seems awfully hard for me to accept that you "know" it won't break GvG when I can create every possible combination and show how they all do (or are worthless).

Another thing, I never said they'd beat on the Lord for a long time. Please read my post again. I said 8 people run in, surround the lord, and backstab spike it. Since they are stealthy you can't do a thing. They don't even necessarily need backstab to do it, an AS spike would do it easily enough. A quick Glyph of Elemental Power gets AS to 14 earth, then a nice spike on the Lord, GG. You could always add in Crystal Wave on top of that for an extra 800dmg that ignores armor. GG.


Nobody on your team ever gets pincered? Enveloped? Hit by catapults? Sniped from the walls while defending a melee sortie? Attacked through the back entrance to the guild? Had the flag stand stolen while engaging the main part of the team?

I'll take this piece by piece:

Pincered? As in two people run in and both attack the target from different sides? The only way a person could think that sneaking is if they didn't know the definition of one or the other. So here is the definition of both:

Pincer:
2. A maneuver in which an enemy force is attacked from two flanks and the front.
(http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pincer)

Sneak:
1. To go or move in a quiet, stealthy way.
(http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sneak)

Now, nothing in the definition of "pincer" has anything to do with sneaking.

Enveloped? As in surrounded by the enemy? How could that be any less sneaky? Why not just say a bullrush is sneaky?

Hit by catapults? What could be less stealthy than a giant rock falling from the sky and exploding on impact?

Attacked through the back entrance? Could be sneaky, if it weren't for the giant red BASE UNDER ATTACK message you get.

Flag stand taken? That's not sneaky either. First off, you get a big red message. Second, it's not sneaky in either case. Even if it didn't tell you, they didn't cap it through stealth or quiet movement, they capped it by being far away. If I shoot artillery at you would you say it was "sneaky" just because I was far away when I shot it? Of course not.


Honestly, I think we just evaluate the magnitude of the problems differently. You see stealth as being impossible to implement because of these problems. I see these as fairly trivial issues to solve, once you're aware that they exist.

See, but you've simply asserted that they do not exist, you have not reasoned for them. All you are showing is that trivial and irrelevent sections of my examples don't work. You have not yet addressed any of the core reasoning.


Don't make backstab so powerful it instaganks the Lord. Don't make stealth impenetrable with the Mark I Eyeball, while still making the stealth user go unnoticed more easily. *shrug* I just don't find these problems unsuperable.

So how powerful should backstab be then? It has to be powerful enough that as a skill it's worthwhile, while not being so powerful it is game breaking. I'll agree that they could make a skill like this and call it "backstab" but it certainly would not be the concept of backstab in any sense.

And if you can see the people, then stealth is worthless. Now your enemy has to hold control to see you? Oh no, not that. A worthless attribute if there ever were one. Instead of calling it stealth, why not call it the "make your enemies hold control key" attribute?

Archenine Paranoia
16-11-2005, 09:18
So much wild speculation, so little substance...

lady breese
16-11-2005, 09:21
my ideas for assassin:
3. special melee attack and/or preparation with conditions (like poison, deep wound) also could use some traps (different than ranger)


I don't think poisn and traps are good idea for assasin as it is already ranger speciality.

BunnyLord
16-11-2005, 09:23
Enough of your speculating of overpowered skills that will never be. And of your thoughts of this game as a copy of D2. The Devs at ANet are very original. Although the starting consept might not seem so, the skills and in game role will be. Trust in ANet for this. I HIGHLY DOUBT there will be an ability to just disappear. Its overpowered and unoriginal and won't happen.

The Frog once said that 8 was a magical number. 8 skills, 8 people, 8 classes. One can safely make that assumption. Now looking at the "heros" of the game (ex. Mhenlo, Devona), there is currently one per class (or should be, sorry Mesmers). Nika will be that hero for assassins. Now, also looking at the composition of henchies, ANet sees a balanced team as one of each class.

W
Mo
Me
N
R
E
A(to replace the extra W)
X(to replace the extra Mo)

Since they figured the importance of two monks to be great, I'm sure profession X will be somewhat of a support character to take the burden away from protection monks. So, sadly to say, the next new class won't be a pirate and, even more sadly to say, druids are great at protecting...

But ANet will deal with it in a fun original way. Then when one thinks of adding assassins and druids, one thinks of GWx.

I would like to see an Alchemist...hehe. I mean Alchemist can be a great support character, helping monks heal and deal damage at the same time. You'll see this phrase if this "GLF 1monk and 1alchemist" :idea:

David Holtzman
16-11-2005, 09:31
So much wild speculation, so little substance...

Not really. I think I've outlined every possible combination of "stealth" thats possible. I've asked others if they could come up with another way, and so far there have been no replies. That leads me to believe that, true to my original belief, I have indeed covered every possibility. Now, if Anet does indeed implement stealth then it must be either A. One of the possibilities or B. Not stealth. If B, then this is no longer of relevence. If A however, as seems likeliest from the story, then they simply must do one of the possibilities. It is an analytic truth that is is impossible for them to do A and not to do any of the options possible for A. Now, since I have covered A, then I have also covered what Anet must do (assuming they do A). That means that if I show that all possible options for A are either unbalanced or worthless, then any implementation of stealth will be either unbalanced or worthless. It's a simple modus ponens.

P1: If A, then unbalanced or worthless.
P2: A.
.: Unbalanced or worthless.

Sonado The Warrior
16-11-2005, 09:34
I'd really like to see this assasin proffesion i would like to use it for my warrior to get a lot of adrenaline really fast since an assasin is fast the person should also get to move faster than regular proffesions. my idea :)

paradoxz
16-11-2005, 10:55
Invis that lasts for say 10sec(and breaks if you preform any action, attack, use a skill/spell, or get hit by an AoE or traps) with a 45-60sec cooldown would work just fine and not create the uber mess you think while still allowing for strategic use of it. This would make bringing AoE's to pvp(all forms) more useful and would still allow a possible sneak kill every minute or so. Only skill I could see making a combo with this really bad would perhaps be oath shot. Oath Shot though tends to make many things paired with it fairly devestating.

As far as backstab is concerned, come on, really.....I love to get an entire team all bunched up together, All 8 around a single target screams a team death on the horizon. And if its to the point where all 8 are around your guild lord that usually means your team is dead anyway and you are saying GG to them, especially if its the good teams whom you seem to think will take most advantage of this. But good teams that I know of dont all bunch up, in case of Smiting or other AoEs, so your 8 assassins all around a single target is kinda dead in the water there. Basically, your points while they sound logical are actually run counter to rational thought and common sense. Mainly because there is no real chance that anything will be doing dmg of the same calibur as certain Elementalist spells and a well co-ordinated spike team would dominate over what you are thinking anyway. You honestly have to consider the cooldown factor, which makes a skill useful, but not overpowered because you cannot spam it constantly.

I would welcome more comments though on how Stealth 'could' work. Personally, as I've said before I could see it working sort of like a Necromancers Traversal/Consume Corpse spell, but instead of targeting a corpse you would target an opponent and appear behind them. Thus putting you into position for other skills that do more dmg, ect...from behind.

EgadzGadzooks
16-11-2005, 12:23
Aw heck with it. Make it an assassin like a mafia hitman. Machine gun, zoot suit and a fedora. They don't have THAT in any other fantasy RPG game.

:winking47

Augustus Del Szay
16-11-2005, 13:14
Assassin... reminds me a hell lot of Diablo 2...

Guild Wars/Area Net = Copycats?!? :confused:

Xpiher
16-11-2005, 13:35
I would welcome more comments though on how Stealth 'could' work. Personally, as I've said before I could see it working sort of like a Necromancers Traversal/Consume Corpse spell, but instead of targeting a corpse you would target an opponent and appear behind them. Thus putting you into position for other skills that do more dmg, ect...from behind.

Yup, thats prob the most balanced way, unless they made it a knock down move as well *sweep* :P Also, they could make "back stab" a skill set that allows you to do differnt things when you appear behind the person such as a crippling blow. Being behind someone and attacking in GW already does more dmg, this would just be an enhanced feature. As for a counter aginst it, no one said that you wouldn't be able to move.

Wiggi
16-11-2005, 13:40
Maybe theyll introduce proper shadowing on walls and give areas dark spots that you can hide in and preform stealth attacks on passers by

daftman
16-11-2005, 13:50
Not really. I think I've outlined every possible combination of "stealth" thats possible. I've asked others if they could come up with another way, and so far there have been no replies. That leads me to believe that, true to my original belief, I have indeed covered every possibility. Now, if Anet does indeed implement stealth then it must be either A. One of the possibilities or B. Not stealth. If B, then this is no longer of relevence. If A however, as seems likeliest from the story, then they simply must do one of the possibilities. It is an analytic truth that is is impossible for them to do A and not to do any of the options possible for A. Now, since I have covered A, then I have also covered what Anet must do (assuming they do A). That means that if I show that all possible options for A are either unbalanced or worthless, then any implementation of stealth will be either unbalanced or worthless. It's a simple modus ponens.

P1: If A, then unbalanced or worthless.
P2: A.
.: Unbalanced or worthless.
In a simple discussion such as discussing games character, ones do not need to show one's knowledge of the world to convince the reader of one's statement.

There are fallacie in your statements.
First of all you believe in what you say and thus over-rule any possibilities that you could be wrong.
"Nothing in this world is absolute beside this statement" - Einstein
What you covered might not be all the possibilities. This is a fantasy game after all and thus there is no law in fantasy.

Secondly, there cannot be an assumption that no replies equate to the your statement being entirely agreed upon. One conclusion that could be derived is that no one bothered to spent time replying unlike I am.

Finally, you cannot prove the your words with logic IF your logic was not agreed by many to be true in the first place. You should know that if the hypothesis is has a likelyhood to be false, no matter what the method of proof, the conclusion is also highly false.
Your uncontested hypothesis does not allow you to define your conclusion is correct.

Be humble my good friend.

BTW: Have you considered Stealth to be a Passive characteristic like Energy Storage?
I have read through your discussion in this thread and so far you mention stealth more as an offensive characteristic.
In a Passive Skill, Stealth can allow an assassin to negate damage since he/she might have low armor than a Mesmer.
Therefore, does this mean that you HAVE NOT covered every possibility?

daftman
16-11-2005, 13:56
Assassin... reminds me a hell lot of Diablo 2...

Guild Wars/Area Net = Copycats?!? :confused:

Guild war team originated from Blizzard North

They are the same team that made Diablo 2 but left Blizzard before the take over from Vivendi.

I do not blame them if they use Assassin.

Archenine Paranoia
16-11-2005, 14:00
In a simple discussion such as discussing games character, ones do not need to show one's knowledge of the world to convince the reader of one's statement.

There are fallacie in your statements.
First of all you believe in what you say and thus over-rule any possibilities that you could be wrong.
"Nothing in this world is absolute beside this statement" - Einstein
What you covered might not be all the possibilities. This is a fantasy game after all and thus there is no law in fantasy.

Secondly, there cannot be an assumption that no replies equate to the your statement being entirely agreed upon. One conclusion that could be derived is that no one bothered to spent time replying unlike I am.

Finally, you cannot prove the your words with logic IF your logic was not agreed by many to be true in the first place. You should know that if the hypothesis is has a likelyhood to be false, no matter what the method of proof, the conclusion is also highly false.
Your uncontested hypothesis does not allow you to define your conclusion is correct.

Be humble my good friend.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts too. Too bluntly claim anything but your logic to be infallible is to commit the greatest folly.

Carnajo
16-11-2005, 14:14
Not really. I think I've outlined every possible combination of "stealth" thats possible. I've asked others if they could come up with another way, and so far there have been no replies. That leads me to believe that, true to my original belief, I have indeed covered every possibility.

Eh?

So because people on the forum here haven't come up with something, you automatically assume that in your omnipotence, you've covered every posssible way? (and every possible implementation thereof?)

Discussing balance issues of any UNRELEASED class of which we know extremely little about is rather silly.

There are many ways ANet might implement stealth, not all of which are necessarily unbalancing in any way. Perhaps they will have some form of jump or teleport skill, similar to the Necros with their corpse teleports.

Taskryr
16-11-2005, 14:20
All i can say is "shoo-dang"

Don't even really know what that means, but the pic of the assasin looks amazing. Can't wait to play it. Will this be the dual wielding prof?

Alex Weekes
16-11-2005, 16:39
Guild war team originated from Blizzard North

They are the same team that made Diablo 2 but left Blizzard before the take over from Vivendi.

I do not blame them if they use Assassin.
Actually, the three founders came from Blizzard South and were more closely associated with the 'Craft titles. You can read about them on the ArenaNet website (http://www.arena.net/about/team.html). The staff list makes for some very interesting reading, actually, as there's some very talented people listed.

lordday
16-11-2005, 17:00
I can see it now ....

"Assassin LFG"

"A/W lfg mish + bonus"

"A/MO lfg"

"A/R9 looking for group"

"level 12 Assassin lfg"

"Group looking for two more NON-ASSASSINS"

zweistein
16-11-2005, 17:02
My several cents:

I really hope that Anet will use same approach with which they created other classes ...

IHMO most ideas here are pretty much feasible with current classes.

Want poisoning short-range bloodykiller? W/R apply poison-sprint-sever artery ...
Want ninjua style teleporting stealth master? W/N necrotic traversal-hundred blades-whatever. gets points for poisoning everyone around :)
etc ...

What i would like to see on ninja:
(btw: each class has its thingie that no ther class has: Eles: glyphs, Warrirors: Adrenalin, Rangers: Spirits, Necronaces: Sacrificing, Monks: maintained echants, Messmers: manipulation with already equiped skills ingame)

so, what i would like to see.

aehm.

Seriously, there is nothing i can think off that assassin should have thats not already in game, and whats not in game would seriusly unbalance it (stealth, etc) or be worthless in either pvp or pve.

So, i hope that devs will do great job and wont just combine W/R/N skillset to one profession.

furiousandflamable
16-11-2005, 17:14
omg im gonna lol when it appears 2 be something like lordday says, but, it's really cool a new profession is comin, cus with only 6, it was gettin a little boring :P


My several cents:

I really hope that Anet will use same approach with which they created other classes ...

IHMO most ideas here are pretty much feasible with current classes.

Want poisoning short-range bloodykiller? W/R apply poison-sprint-sever artery ...
Want ninjua style teleporting stealth master? W/N necrotic traversal-hundred blades-whatever. gets points for poisoning everyone around :)
etc ...

What i would like to see on ninja:
(btw: each class has its thingie that no ther class has: Eles: glyphs, Warrirors: Adrenalin, Rangers: Spirits, Necronaces: Sacrificing, Monks: maintained echants, Messmers: manipulation with already equiped skills ingame)

so, what i would like to see.

aehm.

Seriously, there is nothing i can think off that assassin should have thats not already in game, and whats not in game would seriusly unbalance it (stealth, etc) or be worthless in either pvp or pve.

So, i hope that devs will do great job and wont just combine W/R/N skillset to one profession.

I agree with u, I think it would be more fun if the new character would have an unique ability 2 and not something copied from others

Gadgie
16-11-2005, 17:20
hmm i played knight online for a shrt while and in rouge u could pick asasin go invisable and what not they allso would need somthing against them for each class to memsers would have somthing like sight moves but there will b flaws liek toy cant see people tahts arnt invisable so a assasin could still have a advantage
Monk : Divine Sight
Ranger : Natures vision
Mesmer :shatter stealth
warrior :??
ele: ??
Necro: probly somthing to do with sacrafice
just rand quessesid like teh idea of class for weapons ad short swords,daggers and other items in kight online nce you attack stealth is turned off so thats a dissadvantage also a asasin would be a good runner strealth speed tbh a assasin would be better suited to balanced stance rather than warrior
il be making a assasin

BrknPheonix
16-11-2005, 17:43
aww nuts, now i'm going to have to delete my ranger/nerco for an Assasin/Ranger. i wonder what their dance will be like :happy65:
In theory, the new chapter adds more character slots, so no deletion needed! :happy14:

jadenyuki
16-11-2005, 17:47
:( I dont care if this game was created by the same people as the ones that created diablo and d2. Assasins were way too powerfull in that game and if they follow the same format as they did in their previous games there going to make them way to powerful in this game as well causing more and more updates to make them weaker.

all one has to do is combine the ranger and (depending on how they make the assasin) the assasin and you have the assasin from the d2 lod game.

i wish that they wouldnt create one that would be like that but oh well to each his own. . . .

Fae Winter
16-11-2005, 17:47
That's GvG. What about comps? Topk? Teams? And its only a small section of GvG at that.

Which is why reduced aggro circle could be only a small section of the abilities brought to the table by stealth. The options are not mutually exclusive.


Yep what? You quoted two possibilities, to which do you refer?

Actually, "Yep" was acknowledging your points... that without removing the ability to see the opponent through mean other than the avatar, the skill would not be effective. The two possibilities you mention (removal from both the radar and the CTRL name display) solve the very problem you introduced.


Of course, a truly stealthed target couldn't be interrupted either (something you can do with the SB/MF), since he can't be targeted.

Not really relevant since in context I'm clearly not talking about what you are referring to as "truly stealthed."


Do warriors have a skill like backstab?

Yes, they do. Warriors attacking from the rear have higher damage. http://www.gwonline.net/page.php?p=158#DamageEnhancement


In order for backstab to live up to its nature it must do obscene damage when behind the target.

This is your assumption, not mine. I disagree.


Another thing, I never said they'd beat on the Lord for a long time. [...] I said 8 people run in, surround the lord, and backstab spike it.

So why doesn't this happen now? Why don't spike teams just run into your base and spike the lord to death without giving you a chance to respond?

There are several reasons, but here's one:

"The Guild Lord has 1920 Health and 5 arrows of Health regeneration.
[...]
At the start of the game, the Guild Lord can take no more than 50 damage points per second. Over the first approximately 15 minutes of the game, the damage limit gradually increases up to 250 damage points per second."

http://www.guildwars.com/community/fansite-friday62.html


I'll take this piece by piece

*shrug* I wish you hadn't. Makes it seem like you're deliberately missing the point. Let me restate it, then: It is currently possible to gain a tactical advantage by using surprise and the opponent's limited knowledge of your teams position. I would characterize tactical use of the fact that people don't realize where you are as sneaking up on someone.


You have not yet addressed any of the core reasoning.

I disagree, but I would suggest that if you don't see the core reasoning being addressed, it sounds like you "win" and should keep your opinion as-is. :)


So how powerful should backstab be then? It has to be powerful enough that as a skill it's worthwhile, while not being so powerful it is game breaking. I'll agree that they could make a skill like this and call it "backstab" but it certainly would not be the concept of backstab in any sense.

Your definition of backstab and mine apparently differ. Backstab: an attack whose effect is enhanced by positioning relative to the target, especially by attacking the rear. There is nothing in the definition I'm using about how much the effect has to be enhanced.

I look forward to your reply, but please don't be disappointed if I don't reply further along this line of argument. I feel that I've expressed my position as clearly as I'm going to be able, given the amount effort I'm willing to expend.

Koroh
16-11-2005, 17:48
I won't add to the Holtzman pyre.

However, DH,
I think you're bashing a lot of creative thought because it doesn't fit the way you think the Assassin should work. This thread isn't here to design the Assassin, it's here so people can let their creative juices flow and write down a wish-list of how they hope it will work.

1. Dual wielding and IW can work. You've all assumed that using two weapons will allow the Assassin to attack twice as fast as a normal character. What if they attacked 20% faster, or only used the second weapon for special skills? Problem solved. The second weapon probably won't be an upgradeable one, but might instead be a skill line in itself. Personally I'm betting we'll see Dual Wield in the expansion. Any takers?

2. Something as simple as a 50% dodge ability can be called stealth. Many have suggested a form of invincibility, but I think it might take the form of simply disappearing on radar with no [ctrl] targetting. Only a fool would assume ANet won't add stealth because you don't like the ideas in this thread.

3. Once again, Assassin means someone who kills using surprise. Many on this thread seem to define Assassin as "Someone who uses invincible stealth to go wherever they want and who can kill anyone in one shot". Unlike single player games where you're "The One", this game is about balance. I think ANet can easily capture the essence of an Assassin without making it overpowered or unfair. You'll kill using surprise attacks. You'll see.

4. GW = Diablo 3? I'm okay with that. DII kicked *** and so does GW. If you haven't seen a lot of Diablo in Guild Wars already, you haven't been paying much attention.

Koroh

Zero RoGuE
16-11-2005, 17:52
I bet this is the finished version of the Ninja that Arenanet was roumored to be produceing as a new profession...if it is the same it will have this...

Main Atribute Agility(For every point you have on it you get 2% chance to evade all attacks)

Ninjitsu
Mostly Speed Boosters and Evasion, (plus a little blind dealers)

Katana mastery
special attacks of the ninja.

Assassin mastery
Basicaly Health Degen and other Long range damage +traps

Atributes name may have been changed cuz its no longer call the ninja...

Domino
16-11-2005, 17:56
First of all, I would like to thank A-net for NOT calling this profession "Ninja".

Now that we have that out of the way, I'm almost certainly buying Chapter 2 now.

the Assassin should dual-wield as well, with short blades, knives, and the like. (Possibly throwing weapons)

I'd also bet money that the assassin's combat system will involve combo attacks of some sort.... much like the Rogues from WoW.

Cérilia
16-11-2005, 18:03
Yes, they do. Warriors attacking from the rear have higher damage. http://www.gwonline.net/page.php?p=158#DamageEnhancement


To call that a backstab is right in the sense that it's a stab in the back but let's face it backstab has a meaning in the RPG world. After almost 30 years of fantasy RPG a backstab is an attack done in the back which does an insane amount of damage. In DD I think you could go up to max dmg x 8!!!

Fae Winter
16-11-2005, 18:07
Moving away from the subject of stealth, I had a couple thoughts about the originality of an "assassin" class as well.

It seem to me that "originality" in the sense of "never seen before" is not really part of the intention of Guild Wars. Instead, they seem to be using the strong fantasy archetypes that are touchstones of the genre.

Dragons are immensely powerful, have wings, and breathe fire. Dwarves are honor-bound and stoic. Necromancers conduct foul experiments. The heroes face beings of incredible power, who must be overcome by obtaining the McGuffin that no-one else has (infusion).

Archetypes are not a bad thing. They make the game easy to recognize and understand. They make picking up the game and knowing what to expect easier, and allow you to dive right in to playing without having to figure out unfamiliar designs or social structures. (For comparison, see Saga of Ryzom,... incredibly original, and very cool, but much less accessible to a casual gamer.)

Dang. I mentioned casual gamers. Ah, well.

Zero RoGuE
16-11-2005, 18:08
First of all, I would like to thank A-net for NOT calling this profession "Ninja".

Now that we have that out of the way, I'm almost certainly buying Chapter 2 now.

the Assassin should dual-wield as well, with short blades, knives, and the like. (Possibly throwing weapons)

I'd also bet money that the assassin's combat system will involve combo attacks of some sort.... much like the Rogues from WoW.
did i say they where calling it a Ninja? cuz i said there was a roumor that they where building a ninja profession...Im just saying this is probly the final result..(that includes a name change)

next time please read posts more carefuly before replying to them..

Domino
16-11-2005, 18:09
Dang. I mentioned casual gamers. Ah, well.

Casual gamers? What is this concept of which you speak? :confused:

zweistein
16-11-2005, 18:16
Monk : Divine Sight
Ranger : Natures vision
Mesmer :shatter stealth
warrior :??
ele: ??
Necro: probly somthing to do with sacrafice


Ele: Ward against intruders (10e/5cast/30rech) (Water)
For 10 .. 30 secconds, foes entering ward will loose speed enhancing and stealth stances.

Necro: Well of truth (15e/0.45 cast/30rech) (soul reaping cause there are no soul reaping skills)
Sacrifice 10% health to exploit nearest copse for 30 seconds. Stealthed foe will suffer -5 .. -15 (yes) health and -1 energy degeneration.

Warrior: I'll find you! (or Come out and fight me! or I Seek You!). (1 adren (its hard to get adresn when onone is aoround.) )
Shout, if foe in area is stealthed, he will loose all enchatements and stealth causing skills.

Monk: Vision (10m -1m regen, 2s , 5 r) (no attr)
While maintaining this ectatement, target ally will see stealthed foes in area.

Messmer: There are no shaddows! (Cry, 5en, 60 recharge) (no attr)
all Foes in area will loose stealth.

Ranger: Spirit of Being (5en/5cas/60 recharge)
Create L 10 spirit, for 30..45 seconds, stealth does not work in area.

Assasin: Reversed Strike (4 adren) (attack)
Attack all nearby foes. For each stealthed being in area, you do +40 shaddow damage

Reverend Loki
16-11-2005, 18:27
Actually, I just got some pretty solid confidential info from this guy I talk to online who knows someone who works for Anet, that there is going to be TWO new classes coming soon. In addition to the Assassin class, there is going to be another: the Swashbuckler class. Design to work and balance well with the Assassins (and not fight at all with them or cause endless debate on the InnerWeb about which is better). I'm sure Assassins and Swashbucklers are going to be the bestest of friends...




Pirates > Ninjas, cause they got all the booty

Zero RoGuE
16-11-2005, 18:28
Ele: Ward against intruders (10e/5cast/30rech) (Water)
For 10 .. 30 secconds, foes entering ward will loose speed enhancing and stealth stances.

Necro: Well of truth (15e/0.45 cast/30rech) (soul reaping cause there are no soul reaping skills)
Sacrifice 10% health to exploit nearest copse for 30 seconds. Stealthed foe will suffer -5 .. -15 (yes) health and -1 energy degeneration.

Warrior: I'll find you! (or Come out and fight me! or I Seek You!). (1 adren (its hard to get adresn when onone is aoround.) )
Shout, if foe in area is stealthed, he will loose all enchatements and stealth causing skills.

Monk: Vision (10m -1m regen, 2s , 5 r) (no attr)
While maintaining this ectatement, target ally will see stealthed foes in area.

Messmer: There are no shaddows! (Cry, 5en, 60 recharge) (no attr)
all Foes in area will loose stealth.

Ranger: Spirit of Being (5en/5cas/60 recharge)
Create L 10 spirit, for 30..45 seconds, stealth does not work in area.

Assasin: Reversed Strike (4 adren) (attack)
Attack all nearby foes. For each stealthed being in area, you do +40 shaddow damage

your almost nerfing the stealth build before its even out...its way too mutch...a more easier way of doing it is stealth ends if they deal damage or take damage....also makeing MAoE's Way more useful.

Zero RoGuE
16-11-2005, 18:31
Actually, I just got some pretty solid confidential info from this guy I talk to online who knows someone who works for Anet, that there is going to be TWO new classes coming soon. In addition to the Assassin class, there is going to be another: the Swashbuckler class. Design to work and balance well with the Assassins (and not fight at all with them or cause endless debate on the InnerWeb about which is better). I'm sure Assassins and Swashbucklers are going to be the bestest of friends...
Pirates > Ninjas, cause they got all the booty
Swashbuckler? sounds like they are doing my idea of sea battles :D

zweistein
16-11-2005, 18:51
your almost nerfing the stealth build before its even out...its way too mutch...a more easier way of doing it is stealth ends if they deal damage or take damage....also makeing MAoE's Way more useful.

Well, its one skill per class. Id say it pretty fair to give em some chace to protect themselves...

But, how many poeple will really use these skills in PvE or PvP (Except having couple mosters in running zones use em...)? Its not like you will be paranoind enought to use em in team/random arenas.

For stealth, i can just see this abuse: You gwg/tomb, and you meet 4 X/Mo or Mo/X Characters in stead of 8.

suddenly, your monk starts to take Insane amount of Balth Aura damage (4 assasins surrounded him prior to rest of team arrival, them paired visible chars casted balth aura on em.), monks start signet of jugment/holy strike spiking.

By now, you lost one person.

Assasins will move on to ext target while still stealthed, surroound him and then
N/Mo of oposing them will use orders, assasing will use all their high energy demanding attacks to spike your seccond monk.
They reenter stealth mode.

Now, invisible, they surroud next char, batlh aura comes wile hes unable to escape, again smite spike.

next char, *** spike
smite spike
*** spike (i just wat to say ****e spike here :)
smite spike (i just wat to say ****e spike here :)

you are dead.

Build:

4x A/R (all stealth causing skills, tigers furry, highest damage skills, optional apply poison on one of em.)
1x Ne/Mo (orders and smiting)
1x Ne/Mo (curses and smiting)
2x Mo/Me (healing, curses, shatter enchant)

Prevention? one ward against intruders would have done the job, same as well of truth or whatever.

Scenario 2. Team arenas.

That damn assasin is kiting. ****, hes stealthed. ("winning team" just quits, nothing else to do.)

Prevention? damn nature ritual.

milan Olsivi
16-11-2005, 18:59
You guys have seen the picture and the source right? That's not an assassin class.

Anet proudly presents the new profession: Lapdancer

No Burdens
16-11-2005, 19:02
It’s all speculation A GANKER WHAT? You all have the entire class spelled out and you don’t know a darn thing. Look at the BASICS people, Assassin, martial artist, Sneaky Bastarad.

Look for combination attacks, short low mana minimum additional damaged building up a Ki Power (like adrenalin) once charged Bingo Bongo Bam, Big damage!

I agree the aggro circle being smaller would be cool, but there are other ways around it, like a skill that makes the attacker miss with their first attack, or your first attack being a critical hit when you hit from behind.

Might as well start your druid thread now, I can't wait for the morph to animal skills ;)

ccrazool
16-11-2005, 20:07
zweistein,

For warrior, a better name for the shout would be: "Show yourself!" =)

I'm still just kind of lol'ing over the whole Guild Wars:LOD thing that they're creating. Can't wait to see how they implement Lightning Sentry and Shadow Master. I wonder if the assassin's melee attacks will be charge-discharge too. At least the archetype assassin in the article isn't named "Natalya" -- just "Nika" which isn't similar at all. Um... hmm. Nevermind.

But hey, here's hope that one day they'll get around to adding Iron Maiden, Blood Golem and Revive for us necromancers. We've missed 'em. Then, I can get an Enigma, a Hoto and some Trangs and really have some fun!

Skywarp
16-11-2005, 20:51
You guys have seen the picture and the source right? That's not an assassin class.

Anet proudly presents the new profession: Lapdancer

How much for couch and bed "dances"? Will there be peepshows?

It'll be interesting to see the sneak-up-behind-and-stab mechanics work out in a faster-paced game like GW. I play a lot of stealth classes and usually, it's a bit more drawn out and slower. Then there's the inevitable "ZOMG I GOT PWND0RZ BY T3H NINJAS NERF STEALTH!!1!!1!!11!!" nonsense that ruined WoW's rogues. I'm suprized it hasn't ruined CoV's Stalkers yet.

At any rate, I hope they leave us sneaky bastiges out stealth and high damage. It's all we have and all we need.

Dabbo
16-11-2005, 22:22
OK, well if you like batting around ideas, take the challenge I brought up in my first post: Is there a way to make stealth balanced but still worthwhile and adding to the game?

Okay, how about this: "Sneak: Lose all enchantments. For X seconds, you become invisible and cannot be the target of attacks or spells. If you use a skill or attack, Sneak ends. When Sneak ends, all of your skills are disabled for Y seconds." That'll let you sneak around, it'll let you attack things, and it'll even let you use ONE skill before wearing off. I hardly think that's any less balanced than anything else...the worst abuse of it I can see is someone using Phoenix, and if it wears off right as you start casting the spell, it'll give plenty of time for people to kill you. I think paradoxz said something along the same lines of this earlier, probably while I was asleep or at school ^^;

And about your gank theory, David, I think Fae Winter summed up why it - or ANY type of ganking, for that matter - won't work.


So why doesn't this happen now? Why don't spike teams just run into your base and spike the lord to death without giving you a chance to respond?

There are several reasons, but here's one:

"The Guild Lord has 1920 Health and 5 arrows of Health regeneration.
[...]
At the start of the game, the Guild Lord can take no more than 50 damage points per second. Over the first approximately 15 minutes of the game, the damage limit gradually increases up to 250 damage points per second."

http://www.guildwars.com/community/fansite-friday62.html

And now for dual wielding...meh, I had a brilliant plan, but chances are someone else already said it. And I forgot it anyways, so the point is pretty much moot ^^;;