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Dakkas
19-12-2005, 16:19
I've been using the following build in CA:

Axe 11+2
Str 6+1 (I have a low req shield)
Curses 12

Rez
Sprint
Dismember
Axe Rake
Plague Touch
Spiteful Spirit (E)
Rend Enchantments -or- Rigor Mortis
Parasitic Bond

Yeah, I know, no damaging axe skills. However, huge damage axe attacks aren't much good if your target is running away and/or healing the heck out of themselves, so I find it's better just to Deep Wound/Cripple a squishy and count on the high damage crits while they attempt to run. And against a W or R, I just cast SS and watch them kill themselves (W/R w/ Tiger's Fury are my favorite: I SSed one and he did over 1000 dmg to himself and 2 adjacent teammates).

My question is on the choice of Rend Enchantments vs. Rigor Mortis. Rend strips enchantments nicely, but its cast time is awful and the resulting damage I take is bad since Bond is my only self heal. Rigor Mortis nullifies any block/evade enchantments, but not regen or dmg reduction enchantments. However, it works on W and R stances as well.

I don't have much experience with PvP, but for those of you warriors that do, which tool comes in more handy: stripping enchantments or preventing blocks/evades?

Thanks

Nymon Bodom
19-12-2005, 16:48
How can you count on critical and normal damage with such a small amount of points put in str and axe mastery? :S

Your critical chance is reduced comparing to people that have 16 in axe mastery and so is damage automaticly.
And your damage is also reduced by smaller str 'cos less penetrating your attacks are (not much, but enough reduced to cause you problems since you don't have some wicked axe skills).

I like to keep my str to 9+1. 10% penetration sounds fairly fine to me. ^^

My 2 cents.

Dakkas
19-12-2005, 17:18
Nymon, you didn't answer my question. Besides, don't melee attacks against a fleeing foe have a higher crit chance?

Against anyone but a fleeing opponent, Spiteful Spirit does more damage than any attack skill. There is nothing more annoying than spending 18+ seconds taking 29+ dmg every time you do ANYTHING. One cast of SS on a W/R using Tiger's fury plus a few stances and shouts and you are looking at 650+ dmg to him and all adjacent foes. In that same time period an attack skill like Eviscerate may have done 160 dmg at most.

Tru Reptile
19-12-2005, 20:38
You are forgetting that some players are actually smart enough to stop attacking when they see they have SS on them. Just the other night in TA this Necro cast SS on me, I stop attacking until it's gone then I resume. After he casts it a second time, he sees that I'm not attacking and realizes it's pointless to cast it on me.

SS is only good for dumb warriors and PvE. Smarter players will wait for it to wear off or have it removed.

Tru Reptile
19-12-2005, 21:12
Here would be a better build:

Frenzy
Eviscerate
Executioner's Strike
Axe Rake (to keep those casters or anyone else from running)
Disupting Chop (disrupt skills and disable them for 20 seconds)
Weaken Armor (to help boost your damage)
Plague Touch (you know what this does)
Raise Signet

Axe Mastery: 16
Strength: 10 or 12
Curses: whatever is left over

Or instead of curses you can use Blood Magic for Vampiric Gaze/Touch to heal yourself a bit and do damage.

Preventing blocks/evades is far better for a warrior than stripping enchantments. Having as many of your attacks land as possible is better. If you want enchantments stripped, have someone else do it.

Nymon Bodom
19-12-2005, 22:41
Nymon, you didn't answer my question. Besides, don't melee attacks against a fleeing foe have a higher crit chance?

Against anyone but a fleeing opponent, Spiteful Spirit does more damage than any attack skill. There is nothing more annoying than spending 18+ seconds taking 29+ dmg every time you do ANYTHING. One cast of SS on a W/R using Tiger's fury plus a few stances and shouts and you are looking at 650+ dmg to him and all adjacent foes. In that same time period an attack skill like Eviscerate may have done 160 dmg at most.

You're pretty much answering your own self and the more I look at topic the more I believe you just post it to have replys like "GG nice build m8, awesome" and stuff.

Well no hard feelis but I don't like the build, and if I were you, I wouldn't rely that much on a damage done to fleeing foe.

PS:
I am quite sure you do alotof damage to fleeing foe, but no wonder my warrior would smash that damage pretty easily on same fleeing foe.

I never did W/N myself, but I'd more do some big damage spike like I already have + nasty vampiric gaze + maybe one more skill from necro (SS?) Or whatsoever you like.

Nymon Bodom
19-12-2005, 22:48
I also don't understand why some people use Frenzy when Bersker Stance is so much better.

Frenzy - 5 energy cost, 4 sec recharge time - 33% faster attack speed for 8 seconds and you take DOUBLE DAMAGE (no way m8, try to fire that in front of me or other good damage dealing warrior and you're pencake:)).

However it is true that BS ends if you use a skill, but combined with random conjure skill it gives awesome ammount of damage 'cos your doign base damage + conjure damage (+10 in my case) 33% faster and you fill up your adrenaline 20% faster, in a few hits you damage your enemy pretty much, all you have to do after few hits of BS is start your damage spike and finish off your enemy in few seconds (especially if he is some weaker armor class).

It also has 30 sec of recharge time, but at the time your Frenzy would recharge you'd probably spend your energy else where. Some other energy cost skill? Vamp. Gaze? Some elemental skill?

OR simply (and most likely that this is gonna happen more often than energy lack) you have lost some of your health yourself in combat and second charge of skill that makes you suffer double damage would probably put you in a grave. :)

Maybe Frenzy would fit your secondary class better, but I am quite sure that for most W/E's out there Berserker Stance is simply awesome.

Tru Reptile
19-12-2005, 23:20
Frenzy isn't bad IF you know how to use it. If you use it while getting pounded on and end up dying, then that's your fault. Rarely do I get attacked by another warrior, probably because they realize they are better suited attacking a softer target like casters and even rangers. Frenzy has a nice duration, only costs 5 energy and has a short cool down. Using Frenzy wisely to build up adrenaline and to finish off of whatever is left of someone is how I use it.

I tried Berseker Stance and still prefer Frenzy.

Nymon Bodom
19-12-2005, 23:41
On casters IMO Berserker Stance works alot better (faster to charge spike).

If noone attacks you Frenzy is good, but you don't want your target to call help over TS and have another dmg dealer on your neck while frenzy is on.

glossu
20-12-2005, 01:04
CA build
Keeps Going, and Going, and Going
W/N
12+1+3 (16) axe
12+1 (13) strength

Skills -
Disrupting Chop
Axe Twist
Frenzy
Warrior's Cunning
Victory is Mine! {E}
Plague touch
Sprint
Res Signet

I've had success with this in the CA. I find that very little can stop me. I can call a target, let's say a Monk, and Sprint to him, unload on him with Frenzy. If he's got something to evade me, I pop on Warrior's Cunning and keep going. This build self-heals pretty well with ViM! and axetwist + plaguetouch.

Some alterations I occassionally run is I swap out Warrior's Cunning for Rend Enchantments and Disrupting Chop for Wild Blow. This pretty much owns the Rangers with Whirling Defenses and all that, plus it kicks the **** out of a protection monk with a thousand and one enchantments.

Try it out and hit me back, just a chat, truly yours, your biggest fan,
-this is Stan

-glossu
Rock 'n Roll :happy34:

Dakkas
20-12-2005, 04:05
You are forgetting that some players are actually smart enough to stop attacking when they see they have SS on them. Just the other night in TA this Necro cast SS on me, I stop attacking until it's gone then I resume. After he casts it a second time, he sees that I'm not attacking and realizes it's pointless to cast it on me.

SS is only good for dumb warriors and PvE. Smarter players will wait for it to wear off or have it removed.

A warrior that spends 18 seconds doing nothing is just as useless to his team as a warrior killing himself with SS, correct?

And I realize my axe damage is at least 30% lower than someone who goes all attack skills and 16 axe. However, I guarantee that Spiteful Spirit more than makes up for that 30%, either in utility or damage. It's not redundant to have a necro primary using SS on your team either, because even with Echo he can't keep it on the entire opposing team all the time.

You pure warriors honestly tell me: which is more annoying to face in PvP, Spiteful Spirit or Eviscerate?

Tru Reptile
20-12-2005, 05:19
A warrior that spends 18 seconds doing nothing is just as useless to his team as a warrior killing himself with SS, correct?

The warrior standing there doing nothing is alive, while the warrior that continued to attack while having SS is dead. I don't see what's so difficult to understand. Also, that's IF you can't remove SS yourself or have a teamate that can.

And I realize my axe damage is at least 30% lower than someone who goes all attack skills and 16 axe. However, I guarantee that Spiteful Spirit more than makes up for that 30%, either in utility or damage. It's not redundant to have a necro primary using SS on your team either, because even with Echo he can't keep it on the entire opposing team all the time.

Again, if the warrior is dumb enough to keep attacking with SS on him then yes, it will do alot of damage. Problem is, you don't always face dumb players. SS won't do jack if the player it's casted on either stops attacking or has it removed.

You pure warriors honestly tell me: which is more annoying to face in PvP, Spiteful Spirit or Eviscerate?

Well let's see... warriors usually go after casters instead of other warriors so Eviscerate isn't a problem. Spiteful Spirit is only annoying if you can't get it removed. Sure the Necro could keep casting it on you, but that Necro most likely will be getting attacked/drained of energy.

SonOfRah
20-12-2005, 05:26
You pure warriors honestly tell me: which is more annoying to face in PvP, Spiteful Spirit or Eviscerate?
Neither.

I'm more afraid of Weaken Armor than both of those, and they aren't elite.

Eviscerate only ever gets me if I'm not paying attention (condition removal after the eviscerate kills the damage chain), and spitefull spirit is simple common sense. SS is just a more potent version of empathy.

Nymon Bodom
20-12-2005, 15:14
A warrior that spends 18 seconds doing nothing is just as useless to his team as a warrior killing himself with SS, correct?

And I realize my axe damage is at least 30% lower than someone who goes all attack skills and 16 axe. However, I guarantee that Spiteful Spirit more than makes up for that 30%, either in utility or damage. It's not redundant to have a necro primary using SS on your team either, because even with Echo he can't keep it on the entire opposing team all the time.

You pure warriors honestly tell me: which is more annoying to face in PvP, Spiteful Spirit or Eviscerate?

Evisicrate, 'cos your m8 Monk can't help you when I deal ~100 damage to your caster and deep wound (which monk CAN remove, but damage itself is oh-baby-yes applied. :P)

BTW from my own experience I saw monks more focus on removing hexes than conditions, at least in a big fuzz.

Go figure. =)

Dakkas
20-12-2005, 16:46
Evisicrate, 'cos your m8 Monk can't help you when I deal ~100 damage to your caster and deep wound (which monk CAN remove, but damage itself is oh-baby-yes applied. :P)

BTW from my own experience I saw monks more focus on removing hexes than conditions, at least in a big fuzz.

Go figure. =)

I might try a compromise build with Eviscerate, lower Curses (10 or so) and replace Spiteful Spirit with either Weaken Armor, Barbs, or Rend Enchantments.

Really, the most frustrating part of being a warrior in PvP is when you can't do anything. The common things that shut a warrior down are:

1. Blind
2. Being kited
3. Attacking a target that evades/blocks everything
4. Attacking a target that has so many enchantments that your attacks don't do anything
5. Empathy/other nasty hexes

Take the following skills as a W/N:
Rez
Sprint
Eviscerate
Axe Twist
Penetrating Blow or other attack skill
Plague Touch
Rend Enchantments
Rigor Mortis

And you can't be shut down with methods 1-4. I don't think there is any way for a W/N to deal with hexes, other than relying on your Monk to remove them for you. You still have great offensive capability, although the lack of a self heal will kill you in a hurry without a decent healer in your group. In my experience in CA, a healer is a rare thing, so I would probably at least bring Parasitic Bond instead of Penetrating Blow for a little damage+self heal.

Thoughts?

Nymon Bodom
20-12-2005, 20:08
Look, you gotta understand every build has moments when he can't do anything. Which means he is countered. If target blocks me I use Swift chop, which is nice damage addition to my spike. 5 energy cost and small recharge time.

About blind and stuff, it's all about the teamplay there m8.

HF with exploring.

PS: I am not degrading your previos build aswell, maybe spitefull spirit suited you fine, it was _ALL_ just my personal opinion.

Tru Reptile
20-12-2005, 20:54
Nymon is right. If you try to counter everything then you won't be good at anything, which is why builds focus on themes such as energy denial, interrupt, killing casters, etc. Sure, it sucks being shut down as a warrior, but rest assured it sucks when any profession gets shut down. Aside from playing warrior, I also play ranger and necro. I find that when I get shutdown as a warrior I still have my naturally high armor to help save me, but getting shutdown as a spellcaster, well... spellcasters don't have that good of armor.

This is why it's good to have a balanced team. If every one on the team runs a build that tries to counter everything, then you will find yourself losing more than winning. The only thing you can really do is try your best to get a monk on your team, or if you are in a guild, see if you have members that can play monk to help.

Evalescore
21-12-2005, 03:24
heyheyhey, what about hammer builds here? i only used necro for condidtion removal, it kills chain attack that rely on condiditon and get rid of the two biggest problems for warriors- weaken and blind. Plague touch is the king of the necro spells for warriors. Why waste atribute points on things like curses and such when all u need is a pure warrior build(hammer is my favorite) to knock em down, tacitcs for health, and plague touch to cover conditions. What is wrong here? I dont know about you all but I dont like spreading my attribute points out for spells that cost energy which unless you ppl ahvent notices, warriors are lacking in, concentrate on what skill warriors were made to use and stop becoming bootleg necros with axes and zero energy.

Tru Reptile
21-12-2005, 05:27
"I dont know about you all but I dont like spreading my attribute points out for spells that cost energy which unless you ppl ahvent notices, warriors are lacking in, concentrate on what skill warriors were made to use and stop becoming bootleg necros with axes and zero energy."

Your ignorance is blinding me. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a warrior using some spells (keyword: SOME). Some spells you don't even have to dump alot of points in for it to be effective either. Using Plague Touch is nice, so is throwing Weaken Armor on a target you're about to pound. -20 armor on a caster (even a warrior) is very, very deadly. And there's quite a few ways warriors can maintain and deal with energy.

Nymon Bodom
21-12-2005, 08:51
"I dont know about you all but I dont like spreading my attribute points out for spells that cost energy which unless you ppl ahvent notices, warriors are lacking in, concentrate on what skill warriors were made to use and stop becoming bootleg necros with axes and zero energy."

Your ignorance is blinding me. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a warrior using some spells (keyword: SOME). Some spells you don't even have to dump alot of points in for it to be effective either. Using Plague Touch is nice, so is throwing Weaken Armor on a target you're about to pound. -20 armor on a caster (even a warrior) is very, very deadly. And there's quite a few ways warriors can maintain and deal with energy.

Axes > swords > hammer.

End of discussion. \o/