We don't want to do mission, we need runner!!! [Archive]

dkar

28-12-2005, 14:16

Just want to share my frustration about something I experienced yesterday.

I was leveling with my alt in Elona's reach and was looking for a group. Well, chat window was spammed by messages "Need runner for mission", "Warrior runs through mission, 1K - SUCCESS guaranteed", "Running quickly, all you need is wait".

Well, I never seen so many noobs in on place!
Because getting the descent group was impossible I decided to join one of those "runners" and pay them whatever they want to see how they can manage it. Well, the results were:

- All of them (I tried 5 different) failed, even the guy who claimed he did it 7 times already.
- One W shouted after split-point where ghost hero was left "You go left, I go north to get the shard!" Well, as the group was not balanced at all (3R,2N no monks) of course we were wiped by forgotten Monk Boss.

At the end I desperately joined a group and I though we not gonna make it, as we didn't have monk (only one N/Mo) and the only hope was ele who (god thanks) had meteor storm with him. Well, we did it in 20 minutes! (30 min timer) and noone was dead even once. The mission itself is like the basic lesson which will be contributing later to how to deal with mobs in SF,FoW,UW.

I totally don't understand why noobs are looking for runner in mission and why noob warriors (lvl 20, but no exp or whatsever) are offering this kind of services??? May be I am missing something??? Why spending 20 minutes for some is worth hours of spamming, shouting,failing, and money?

FragJunky

28-12-2005, 14:38

Why someone wants to be run everywhere and have their Momma hold their hand is beyond me. It completely defeats the idea of playing the game. If all you want to do is shoot ducks, then go get an Atari Game, you just wasted your money on GW.

The concept is to follow the story line, and enjoy playing the game. If you get a runner into Draknors so you can have the best armor to fight lower level enemy, then where is the challenge and fun.

IMO, running a mission and or area is an exploit and cheat.

Lytha

28-12-2005, 15:11

GreenHeron

28-12-2005, 15:42

The amazing thing that I've seen recently was back in pre-sear. I just started a new character and went about my business as usual. I tend to play solo or use henchies, so I didn't team up with anyone except for rez sig quest.
Well.. there were people both advertising for running and looking for runners!
In pre-sear! I think the abundance of runners has made players think that the game cannot be played normally, and must be run.

Two things about this struck me as being funny. One: There are no, to my knowledge anyway, running skills in pre-sear. Two: The vast majority of Mobs can be waltzed past and nothing will happen.

*Disclaimer: I tried many times to go through Elona's Reach with henchies, got fed up and paid a runner. Well, actually I tried to pay about 4 runners. Only the last one finished it and got his/her gold. I've since gone back with guildies and played through it normally.
:xmas16:

The Harlequin

28-12-2005, 15:47

It didn't used to be like this--people gaming the PvE areas so they can farm and get phat lewt for PvP. Maybe Anet needs seperate districts for people who still wish to enjoy the PvE game?

necroshmancer

28-12-2005, 15:58

Maybe you all need to just stop worrying about how other people play the game and do whatever you want with it, just a thought.

Running is an easy way to make money for people who can't farm, it's helpful to people who have gone through the game a half dozen times already, it doesn't actually cause any harm except the one in a thousand person who gets run through the game without learning how to play their character (usually the same person who bought their account or buys gold online so the loserdom is contained within one group of people).

It's even helpful for newer players; the first time I went through the game I had no idea that Maguuma Stade existed and when I found out I couldn't find it. Some person was advertising a test run, I joined and got there and now I can unlock it with all my characters easily since I know where it is.

Disgruntled Architect

28-12-2005, 17:06

It may be frustrating, but to each their own, I guess. Frankly, I did the opposite thing as Necromansher; when I heard about Maguuma Stade, I wandered around until I found it. Exploration is one of the most entertaining parts of the game, but unfortunately, it only happens once; if you're diligent about scouring the map with one character, it loses most of the appeal for following ones.

It does seem to me that there's been a serious increase in the whole running industry, and I'd imagine there are several (unfornate) side effects; aside from just lack of experience and general poor playing, even high level areas are flooded with people who have absolutely no idea where anything is, how much things cost, what items do, etc., and it makes navigating the general chat channel next to impossible at times. I actually thought last night, "wouldn't it be nice if you could earn gold by sitting in Drok's and answering all these questions?" I do my best to answer questions, but I'm online to play, not to explain that doing missions will move you to new areas to someone at Droknar's. I also think panhandling has increased as a result of so many new and relatively poor players obsessively buying their way to Droknar's, and while it's trivial, pandhandling really really irritates me in a way that very few other things ingame do. It's such a warped concept, begging in a game instead of actually playing the game to earn it, that I can't get my head around it at all.

Lastly, I found my last time around with a new character, certain missions were essentially impossible to NOT be run on, paying or not. I couldn't find a team at Sanctum Cay actually willing to fight, and instead ended up slowly fighting through mobs with a couple members while everyone else ran through the mission.

Is the general quality of the high-level area PVE population decreasing? Possibly. But it makes finding a good guild to play with all the more rewarding, and just imagine if your gameworld was not privately instanced, and you had to deal with all those inexperienced players running around in the wilderness with you. It could be a lot worse . . .

necroshmancer

28-12-2005, 18:14

First of all, there is a marked decrease in runners lately. People haven't made as much money as they used to through runs for about a month now so the runner community is filled with people who don't know what they are doing because all of the professional runners have gone on to better things.

Second, I haven't noticed any lack of competant players in the late-game. I measure people by how good at the game I was at that point with my first character. I was just as oblivious to most of the popular builds and didn't know how to complete missions because I had not done them. What I have noticed is a huge surge of players in the game who have absolutely no patience with people who haven't done anything before. Any PuG can be great if you spend the time on it, you have to teach people who don't know what they are doing not make fun of them and ignore them. Most of the bad groups I've ever been got better as missions progressed because I patiently showed them what had to be done.

Gangrel

28-12-2005, 18:31

They want to be run for the following reasons:

- they are newbies who have the usual problems with Elona Reach (the time ticking can cause quite the hysteria.)
- they just want to ascend so that they can farm UW and FoW
- they have a problem with hyperactivity and an attention deficit but just want to finish the game one single time NOW!!!one!
- they are just plain bad players who are incapable of playing the game normally

I still don't know which ticks me off more: Droknar runees with some elite in the Ascalon Arena <-> Noobs in starter armor (ideally with W secondary) who run around in any mission after the Northern Wall and think they're a tank.

Or its your 7th character and you are sick and tired of some of the missions. You have a storage full of shards/ectos/greens/gold/whatever and instead of trying again and again and again to do it with a bad pug you hire a runner. But since the noob runners are everywhere it s still the same thing.

Disgruntled Architect

28-12-2005, 18:32

I didnt say a marked increase in competent runners, but in runners. Maybe not from Beacon's to Droknars, but I hear many many more offers/requests for runs to every single point in the Southern Shiverpeaks from every other point, many for extremely illogical routes. I'm assuming its become harder to run to Droknar's, but I never have a reason to actually go back to Beacon's, so I wouldn't know.

It's possible that the 'newer' runners are simply more vocal, but I was never bombarded by offers to be run everywhere in Kryta and the Maguuma with my past 3 characters, and I've been bringing them through the game, one at a time, on a very regular basis, nor did I find myself ever unable to find a PUG for a mission because everyone in the district was there to run, or be run. You're entitled to say with absolute certainty that there are fewer runners, but everything I've seen points to the contrary.

I definitely agree that high-level PUGs have become more authoritarian, with people ordering the group around, regardless of them founding it or not.

Teufel Eldritch

28-12-2005, 19:12

I find it kinda funny & kinda sad too that ppl will spend more time looking for a runner, ppl will fail the mission more often with a runner, than if they actually played the mission. Elona isnt hard. All you need is common sense & some teamwork.

Disgruntled Architect

28-12-2005, 21:57

Common sense and teamwork, easier said than done. :S

For some reason, Elona seems to turn everyone's brains to mush--every time I've done it, with guildies, with a PUG, there's always at least one or two massive misjudgements made during the course of the mission; I get the feeling it has to do with the ticking clock. People try to run through a crowd of forgotten while carrying the crystal instead of fighting, decide to charge over the narrow, rickety, chokepoint-y bridge instead of going around, etc.

For the ultimate irony in spending more time and energy to run rather than fight, I think Iron Mines of Moladune takes the cake; I've been in so many groups where one or more of the members decide to run to the infusion point, only to get cut down by the azures at the mouth of the cave after everyone else has died whilst strung out across the map.

Frostfire

29-12-2005, 01:30

This is more of a matter of personal opinion/taste. I'm a runner, I run Forge/Elona so I can make money to finance my fissure armor. On the matter of Elona, I believe its simply because many PUGs become impatient and decide to run into a few groups on Forgotten.

On the matter of RUNNING Elona, you have to learn/watch a runner do it. The only way to do the run is to take advantage of some design flaws in the map. I was lucky enough to have a guildie teach me, he on the other hand had to pay 50k to learn. That's why so many wannabe runners fail, they think Elona is easy and good practice toward Forge running.

dkar

29-12-2005, 11:19

Well, regarding Elona, but also in genral the MOST common reason ppl fail on mission:

1. Unbalanced group composition (no monk, three R etc.)

2. Players dont adjust their skills (two players taking same skills instead of diversifying it depending on other players). I must say if group leave without asking if everyone is ready after the last member joined - I leave it instantly!
I won't be upset about it as it is 100% noob group (or at least noob leader).

3. Interrupts and energy denial.

4.Targeting and following the targets

5.Pulling and aggroing

Well, if for some reasons you are in Elona and don't fullfil on one of these condtitions you will probably fail. Is that the reason to ask for a runner?
Instead or looking backwards and thinking - what was wrong?
Ok, get stuck with with healer boss - so more interrupts will be needed .

IF the group for Elona has ele with meteor shower and interrupter
(in my group mesmer was doing damn nothing, only phantasms, so I used spinal shivered myself and was quite happy about the results!) - the group will win, otherwise not or with great efforts.

But no, ppl are screaming "Four W/R needed for run!" or "5 monks looking for runner" - this is what I call insane. And yes, nothing is wrong with the running to get to some areas and acquire skills, but perversing the game flow in such a way is definetely not something I was waiting for.

FragJunky

29-12-2005, 15:44

First I would never pay a runner much less allow a mission to be won by one. I would drop out first. I see no reason to play if someone else wins it by lessoning the game. Justify running all you like for what ever reason, it just does not stand up for me. If people want to screw them selfs in the game, then that is their choice.

I have done Elona several times, and each time with Henchies. It is not really that hard. Just take your time, and setup and recharge each time. Pull groups out of Agro range for other groups before engaging. The clock does not mean a thing, it is just there is all. I agree people see the clock and think they have to run all the time. Also the bridge is a bad chock point, and should be avoided. Just go to the right, and when an enemy comes into range, hit him draw them out of range of the others,then engage them.

Thirsty River on the other hand, I have only beat it once with Henchies, and that was pure luck. This is where I turn to friends and Guild. That is what they are there for, and not one of them is a runner.

unholygod

29-12-2005, 16:19

This is my opinion...well wif 5 chars that have finished the game....i sometimes find that certain missions can bi runned wif 100% sucess( pro runners of course) instead of risking 1 hr of ur time going in wif a PuG(thats after doing the mission countless times on ur various chars) and end up wif a monk who brings balth aura, w/mo who aggros everything,ele wif some kind of aoe except shower....nt to mention people who go afk while carrying a vamp weapon.And no amount of explaining will do when u finally give up and leave( after explaining why of course)...wif cries of *NOOB LEAVER*constantly being whispersed to u ...

After all to some players wats 1 plat to them?in 1 hr one can make 10k minimum at the very least.So thats y running at times > doing mission.And of course theres the usual people who do not skip the damm scenes despite repeated requests to( ur better off watching LoTr then watching lousy voice acting).....most impotantly TIME = MONEY.

PS: my first char(nec) went tru all the missions the normal pve way :) after all drok runs didnt even exist then.

necroshmancer

29-12-2005, 16:45

Why do these threads keep popping up? Honestly, people should stop posting whenever they get grief from or because of a runner or runnee. Just suck it up and deal, running is part of the game and whether you agree with it or not it's not going to change.

I'll say it again, all of you people who are "proud you don't run or get run" and think that everyone who runs or gets runs should be punished, find something more substantial and worth your attention to focus on. I'm fed up with seeing people spamming "OMG, you're getting run, why don't you play the game!" everywhere I go. All you anti-running people are more obnoxious than any runners I've ever seen. Yes, some places are filled with different runners advertising but I very rarely see a runner spam like people who feel the need to say "Why run, you will get there by just playing the game!"

It's great that you love doing everything over and over again but I don't want to do the same things a dozen times, I want to get to game content that matters to me not trudge through Aurora Glade for the 12th time.

allinuff

29-12-2005, 17:41

lol dude relax.

yea runners is, in a way, the cause of incompetence among some end game PVE players. but then it also helps those who've played the game too many times. may i add that, the real fun only begins when you've a quite complete skill set, around the desert area? the areas before that are like tutorial areas, which can be drag. for me, i run friends, who've finished the game before, to forge and the rest is up to them. some will fight their way to war camp, citadel even grotto with henches. myself, i get runs to get max amor and perhaps a skill or 2, so, i can go back and totally smash through the early missions. a lot funner this way after my last 4 characters.

Dawn Stormborn

29-12-2005, 20:43

I have a mixed opinion about runners. What really bothers me are people who go AFK in a mission. Yesterday I entered Gates of Kryta with a secondary character, and before we hit the bridge I noticed we were just 5 green dots instead of 6. One guy just sat at the beginning and let us carry him through the mission and bonus. I hate that. Next time I find an AFK'er early enough in a mission, I'm going to suggest the group quits and reforms without the freeloader(s).

Anyway, I did Ice Caves yesterday, and my group needed a monk. So we advertised... and had a surprising number of 11th and 12th level monks try to join up. I was thinking, how in the !@#$& do you get to Ice Caves of Sorrow at 11th level, people must have been dragging them along for the past dozen missions. Anyway, I mentioned to the rest of the PuG that an 11th level monk wanted to join, and they all started laughing. We wound up finding a properly leveled monk and took another monk hench. Nothing against runners here, but taking somebody along who is that much lower level makes it harder for everybody else.

I guess I'm saying is runners don't really affect me personally, so they can do whatever. This is something ANET can actually control, by adding level requirements to the zone portals - i.e. need to be 15th level (or whatever) to take this portal. I'm sure it would be some work to implement, but if we ask it might happen.

Dawn Stormborn

29-12-2005, 20:53

On the matter of RUNNING Elona, you have to learn/watch a runner do it. The only way to do the run is to take advantage of some design flaws in the map. I was lucky enough to have a guildie teach me, he on the other hand had to pay 50k to learn. That's why so many wannabe runners fail, they think Elona is easy and good practice toward Forge running.

I know that Elona can be run, and I've been trying to figure out how to do it on my own. I think I know the path from the start to the ghostly hero (i.e. the first crystal, but then this section isn't really the hard part) and most of the path for the southern (second) crystal, but I don't know it 100% and of course not much about getting the western (third) crystal.

Basically I'm just trying to figure this out for fun - one thing I do if I have a little time to kill. There was even the benefit of capturing Marksman's Wager. ;)

I can see that running can be quite a challenge, so in that way it is fun for me to figure out how to do it.

Ahastar Darktalon

29-12-2005, 23:58

"We run or we fight?"
"FIGHT please if I wanted to play a racer I'd play Gran Turismo!"

God I wish I had an ecto for every time I had to say that.

Cortista

30-12-2005, 03:38

alright. About Elona.

I often run this mission for free/tips.

1) ANY RANGER OR WARRIOR. with a monk 2ndary can run this mission. Level 13+ (i did it at level 12, likely fluke, but i consistently did it at level 13 Ranger)
2) ANY group with level 16+ can Fight Elona.
3) most players dont know about the direct bridge for the left crystal. And often have to go around this bridge. (left looking on the field with 2 Cytals from the Ghostly Hero Area.)
4) Most people are morons in this world. Deal with this please. And Deal with it Civilized.
5) Most people don't realize, fighting ONE GROUP AT A TIME. Will make this mission easier. I did every mission, and all the after game quests with my Ele. So im not exsactly a n00b.

dkar

30-12-2005, 11:09

ArKayne

30-12-2005, 11:42

"We run or we fight?"
"FIGHT please if I wanted to play a racer I'd play Gran Turismo!"

God I wish I had an ecto for every time I had to say that.

You've just reminded me of how I got flamed one time for wanting a run from Lions' to Temple of Ages. He was practically spamming my whispers saying that 'You don't need to go there at this time!' and that 'People like me ruin the game!'.

Obviously he hadn't heard of the Villiany of Galrath quest, getting a competent group to fight from LA or Hot springs to Temple of Ages can be excrutiating sometimes, having failed with 3 PUGS prior to that, I decided to go for a runner and got flamed. I also wanted to obtain 'Verata's Sacrifice', and I got flamed because I shouldn't have such 'a powerful skill at this stage of the game.'

On the topic of Elona, I did it with henchies, twice, got Warriors Endurance and Order of the Vampire.

Longasc

30-12-2005, 12:32

So you were unable to fight your way to the Temple with Henchies?

:scratch:

Findariel

30-12-2005, 13:23

Well since running has become a BIG part of the game I think people just should accept it that that's the way it is.

I even expect that if chapter 2 is out, a group of people will finish it as soon as possible and run A LOT of people through part 2 for 25k each. And the runnees will say "because we already played chapter 1 and don't want to go through the "grind" of also playing chapter 2".

I'm also in favour of a "run trainer" in Ascalon that let you finish the game and unlock all outposts for 50k and unlock all skills for an additional 50k for each profession.
At least saves you precious time and tedious searching for runners.

/sarcasm

Stranger The Ranger

30-12-2005, 13:28

Running missions ruins the concept of the game imo....

Frostfire

30-12-2005, 19:21

If its your first time through the game, then yes it ruins its concept. But I find it perfectly justified for those who've completed the game once already to just run right through.

Who wants to slog through the non-existant horrible voice acted story 3-4 times? Who wants to spend hours upon hours completing every mission again when you can skip it all?

:xmas26:

Ahastar Darktalon

30-12-2005, 19:29

You've just reminded me of how I got flamed one time for wanting a run from Lions' to Temple of Ages. He was practically spamming my whispers saying that 'You don't need to go there at this time!' and that 'People like me ruin the game!'.

Obviously he hadn't heard of the Villiany of Galrath quest, getting a competent group to fight from LA or Hot springs to Temple of Ages can be excrutiating sometimes, having failed with 3 PUGS prior to that, I decided to go for a runner and got flamed. I also wanted to obtain 'Verata's Sacrifice', and I got flamed because I shouldn't have such 'a powerful skill at this stage of the game.'

On the topic of Elona, I did it with henchies, twice, got Warriors Endurance and Order of the Vampire.

Nah, if I wanted to flame anyone my post would have sounded waaaay more juicy. If you want to be run from spot A on the map over to spot B because you are simply just still too low leveled / skill equipped / armed, more power to you. I was talking about joing a PUG asking for a healer, me accepting, and then seeing the main tank rush to the ghost in Thirsty instead of friggen FIGHTING. That royally pisses me off because, well, we are here to have fun smashing enemies to bits, no? Where is the fun in running past them?

You learn something new in every battle.
But only if you actually have them.

Corporeal Ghost

31-12-2005, 11:53

I'm personally of the opinion that running will be detrimental to one's gaming experience. However, if you want to do that to yourself, go ahead. You can spend that forty bucks on the game, start it up, and then go catch a double-feature movie if you want. More power to ya. But keep your lazy butt away from me. Stop spamming my cities. Stop trying to join my groups. Stop clogging up my low level arenas with armor and skills you should not have. Yes, if I really wanted I could have them too, but that completely and utterly defeats the purpose of the low level arena. It's just like the Lion's Arch arena, but with slightly less hit pointage. Stop trying to join my groups even if you are the proper level. I don't want your inexperience ruining my tight four-man Thunderhead Keep. But you played through the game? Sure, you're the best Warrior ever. That doesn't make you a good Mesmer. Even worse than this (I even enjoy the extra challenge sometimes) are the guys who fail to tell me that they have armor capable of tanking an entire mission at once and two spells that will finish off the enemies. What the hell is that? You don't want to have a hard time playing the early missions. I get it. You got run. I DO want to have a hard time playing the early missions. They are not there as a training period. They are there as a limited resource trial. IE, how many of you does it take to kill enemies using just Firestorm and Flare?

Run all you want. I can't stop it. I would if I could, but I can't. Just keep the heck away from me. Don't even enter the same district as me. Howsabout that? Runners can have their own districts? I can't hold a simple conversation with someone anymore with all the running and trade spam.

"How do you get to Serenity Temple?"
400 4 RUN 2 YAKS 2 SLOT LEFT
LFR PIKEN
MAX SWORD 15^50 22LF
NEED RUN TO GRENDICH
"Well first you go south of Fort Ranik"
RUNNING TO PIKEN 4 TIPZ
WTB MAX HAMMER
LFR!!!!!!!!!!11

Et cetera.

Heck, I even enjoy running, not that I'd ever run anyone else. Ever try running somewhere with a level 12 Mesmer/Necromancer?

--me

FragJunky

03-01-2006, 16:01

Last night, I done the Thunderhead mission. 99.9% of the time, I use Henchies. For the heck of it, I went PuG. I had this Monk beg me to get in, and I figured what the heck, let's go. Turns out he was only level 12. WTF, two guesses how he got to Thunderhead at that level. What the heck, lets go.

It was very obvious he had never run the mission. He kept asking how to do this and how to do that. How long does this stupid mission take. Can I Cap a Monk Boss. Where is the Stupid Monk Boss. How much longer will this take. On and on.

We did beat the mission, and all he did is complain all the way. He even complained when we beat the mission. Started complaining because he did not Cap any Monk skills. I made a comment to him, and not a flame that if he had been playing instead of running, he would not need to Cap, that he would have most all the Skills he needed. For excepting him in at level 12, and answering all his questions, and helping him through the mission, I got a very prompt FU.

I wish people like this would donate their Brain to science so we could study the Stupid Gene.

Doyle

03-01-2006, 21:30

I really don't mind people running if that floats their boat. I generally avoid it, I have to admit that I took a free run for my 5th character to get past the jungle, so Mea Culpa.

However, I had a unique experience happen to me in a mission last night. One member of the group wanted to run the mission. Several of us said we wanted to fight instead. Around about the 3rd combat, the runner starts complaining that he could do this mission in 4 minutes tops. At that point, several people stop fighting and the rest of us die. The runner then proceeds to start running the mission while the ones that wanted to fight it lay there dead.

As a result, I was run through it, like it or not. I didn't think about it at the time, but I guess I could've just mapped out. And if I was a real purist, I would go back and redo the mission even though I have actually completed it, but in any case, it was certainly a strange thing to have a run "forced" on me.

Lady Rhonwyn

04-01-2006, 10:36

Heck, I even enjoy running, not that I'd ever run anyone else. Ever try running somewhere with a level 12 Mesmer/Necromancer?
I took a runner (twice). For my second and third character (started them at the same time).

My W/R wanted a bear and I know they can be found plentiful around Port Sledge. So I took a runner to Droknar. Took some henchies and fought my way to Port. And finally charmed my bear. Then she went to LA and again with some henchies, walked all the way to Sanctum Cay (by way of ToA) and beyond. I found that more fun than the run to Droknar.

My Mo/N also had a runner to Droknar. About two weeks ago (she was level 17). She wanted to finish Grenths winterday quest. She arrived in Droknar, got a pipe and hasn't been there since.

So I'm glad there are runners. Otherwise I would not have been able to finish the Grenth quest with my monk. I would still have no bear for my W/R.

I do agree with you that they shouldn't flood the general chat channel. They are selling something (themselves), so they should put it in the trade channel.

VorianVader

10-04-2006, 12:57

I have a different take on running. I wont even attempt to argue the merits or demerits of this whole issue.........each to his own. However, I suspect that most runners are people who have done the missions etc and think that they can easily solo a mission and make money off it (Since Droks run actually requires some expertise).

I had an interesting experience in Sanctum Cay a couple of weeks ago. I was off sick from work and sitting around the house playing Guild Wars. Felt like doing the bonus in Sanctum Cay, zone in and there is no one interested in that. Saw this guy spamming "Running the mission for 1K each, get to the desert, 100% success rate. 7/8 invite self". I didnt think it was possible since its a bit difficult to hold off the groups at the end unless you are a stance tank (which most runners dont bother with).

So I join the group and sure enough, all of the people in the group are level 8-9's with a max of level 12. The runner was a typical 20 W/Mo. I told the guy that I wasnt paying since I have done the mission but would help him if needed. Since pickings were small, he agreed and off we went.

Things went ok with him running ahead using charge, sprint etc. I was trotting behind him (didnt have sprint) and all of our group is obviously dead. So we get to the docks, the vizier starts casting his spell and the white mantle attacks. The runner rushes forward to engage them and promptly dies. So I am standing there, holding off the white mantle until the vizier finishes his spell. Got on the boat and end up in the desert.

The guy was graceful enough to whisper me and say thank you. I told him that it wasnt a problem and I didnt want any of his money but if he advertises something like that, then he better be able to deliver.

Crazy Moo

10-04-2006, 13:11

I actually had a w/mo run me on sanctum cay last night, only because i was sick of getting dc'ed during the mission or getting a stupid party where everyone leaves. I saw someone running for 1k, but there were a group of like 5 people constantly calling a scammer. Apparently the W/Mo got pretty angry so he decided to run everyone for free to show them he wasnt a scammer. I took him up on his offer, and he made it to the boat without a scratch (At one point i thought he was gonna die but he used healing hands to save himself). Even though it was free, i felt a little bad people kept calling him scammer, and I decided to give him 1k anyway.

And i agree that it does get a little sad when you cant even find a party anymore because all people want to do is run through the mission.

GrimShade

10-04-2006, 20:16

I really have no issue with runners, and I could care less that they are around. I still play my chars through the game and let them find their own stuff. Just the way I like to play. What bothers me is that I have run into quite few people that force runs on parties. Runners that need to fill space, or need the ‘distractions’ will fill their ranks with people who want to play and then do the runs anyways. I had it happen in 3 different quests on my last char that was questing through the game. We would get to a point in the game and the guy would dash off to complete the run regardless if that was the agreed on objective. Generally they fail at the run and the mission turns into a waste of time.

If more runners were ‘professional’ and didn’t do those types of things, I would have no issues at all. I would also like to see different districts used for the runners, even if it is an unwritten thing we as players decide on. All people looking for a run should go to district 2, Sellers in district 1 and players filling up the rest of the districts. At least we would get to find the people who have the same goals as us.

omgaretherenonamesleft

10-04-2006, 20:43

It's part of every game, deal with it. After your 7th character, you don't really want to play through the entire story line again.

I usually play through most of the missions after getting ran to get skills/armor just to level up anyway.

I do aggre on districts being set up for different things. Dist 1 for trade, 2 for runs, 3 for general LFG would be so great. Wouldn't have to keep my all chat off all the time.

Jandau

10-04-2006, 21:17

Hi, I'm a Newb! :smiley:

I have owned the game for a bit under a month. I'm currently on my second char (I got bored with my first in Maguma). I just got my arse to Droknar's Forge and got my armor. I got there on my own after doing the Glint mission.

I have almost NO problems with cash. After buying my Droks armor (with a few extra pices I tried on for the looks) I still had 7k left over.

I've beat almost all bonuses. I've been lazy on Elona, Dragons is kinda hard and I was henching through Dunes so I didn't bother with the bonus.

I ran MYSELF around the desert, and I did it with a bit of an unconventional build (W/E, while most runners I've seen are W/R or W/Mo) and with no trouble.

I would never pay for a run. If I find myself bored with the same old content I will just stop playing.

I'm a bossy prick. I admit it. But I only boss people when I know what I'm doing. I got a party through Sanctum Cay despite a person quitting mid-mission and a warrior who was constantly scared we had no chance of finishing the bonus. I did the Aurora Glade bonus with only 3 other people (one of wich was lvl 14). I kept ordering people around, but they thanked me afterwards.

What's my point? Well:

1. I'm glad I did all of this. It was tons of fun. I've also skipped a lot (wilderness outside of Denravi, Zaishen Challenge, etc.), and there is tons to do in this game.

2. If I ever get bored I'll either stop playing, or stop playing PvE

3. I will NEVER pay someone to "run" me. I'll either run myself or play the game.

In conclusion, I'd like to say that running is offering a lot of players a method of not working for their progress. If there was no running more people would play the game and grouping would be easier...

But as I said in the first line, I'm just a Newb :grin:

Khorrax

10-04-2006, 22:08

Honestly,I get run quite often with the new chars I make.The reasons are:
1)I've already finished the game once and let's face it-the storyline is predictable and boring so I'm really not too keen on doing all missions again
2)I find it too boring to get at the desired destination by fighting my way with henchies.In fact I hate using henchies,the exception being skill capping
3)sometimes I am forced by circumstances to get a run.I have the choice to either wait up to an hour to get a group for a mission or get a runner right away.And when this keeps on happening I just get that run though I really like certain missions and I don't wanna get run
I must agree that runners are a major problem mostly because they help complete noobs to get to end-game areas where they just ruin the parties they join.But waht pisses me mostly are people who tell me to ****ing play the game(I quote them).I got flamed by a person once and when I tried to explain that I've already completed game and I just wanted to get to a specific area he began swearing at me and then put me on the ignore list.That's even more lame than getting run when you first play the game.

Alexia of Durham

11-04-2006, 01:38

What's really annoying me ( this I witnessed in pre-sear couple of weeks ago) is people charging for the "adventures with ally " - quest and also running places in pre-sear. I think that's really crossing a line .

Another thing : the people trying to scam newcomers out of their newly found dyes.When I see anyone spamming local chat with "WTB: all your dyes, 20g /piece " , I immediately start spamming local chat myself warning folks not to sell or buy any dye in pre-sear.

Ora

11-04-2006, 01:53

Even more annoying: scammers offering runs from Droks to Port Sledge or Ice Caves for 500 gp...
Little Thom and Co offer the same service for free...:wink:

Tiarhys

11-04-2006, 11:09

I used to run ppl, not for money, but for fun. I enjoyed it. Never made a buck out of it. I stopped doing it, since I stopped enjoying it. Thing is, I can now see why every1 has a problem with this. And all because of this new guildie I have.

Hes a funny guy, and we all like him, but he got ran with his first character to Droknar's. He doesnt (or didnt, until recently) had the Magumma Jungle explored, didnt even knew it existed, didnt had the Crystal Desert, nothing.

Now, we try to teach him things, and the way everything works. But his main problem is his constant begging for gold or items. We have many farming guides in our website, and we try to make him come with us to places, but its like he wants everything handed out to him, and refuses to earn things. That is the main problem with running ppl from place to place. they do not want to EARN the things they want.

aukofhasdf

11-04-2006, 13:00

You might as well just kick the guy. People like that will leave as soon as something better comes along, they wont saty loyal.

Holger

11-04-2006, 13:56

i used to love running people just for the hell of it, it was fun for me...
then people started *****ing and whining on free runs. i mean its FREE, be happy. im getting bored of running all these spoilt brats now so im helping guildies cap skills etc nowadays and do the occasional match in the TA

RangerRob

11-04-2006, 14:03

It's part of every game, deal with it. After your 7th character, you don't really want to play through the entire story line again.
Ok then that begs the question, if you don't want to do the entire story again why are you doing it?? It can't be to unlock since you can get UAS with 1 toon if you really hate the missions that much and if you actually are UASing why would you bypass the Jungle missions??

If you are worried about the XP grind for skill points then you can easily UAS with 3 toons, or you can UAS with 6 with virtually no gold and no XP faming at all (you have more than enough skill points by L20 to UAS a single toon). Surely the only reason you can be running a 7th toon is because you want to play them... in which case why run??

Btw, I'm not saying "you" I just mean "the global you" as in everybody using runners in this way. Also this isn't a flame or whatever, I just really want to know what the point is in the scenario you refer to (7th toon).

nkuvu

11-04-2006, 15:37

We have many farming guides in our website, and we try to make him come with us to places, but its like he wants everything handed out to him, and refuses to earn things. That is the main problem with running ppl from place to place. they do not want to EARN the things they want.
Your cause and effect is backwards.

He wants things handed to him. That's why he got runs and doesn't know about Maguuma (et cetera).

Running did not make him want things handed to him. If running had never been in the game, this person would probably still be begging for things.

And there will always be people like this in game.

maina

11-04-2006, 15:56

Ok then that begs the question, if you don't want to do the entire story again why are you doing it?? It can't be to unlock since you can get UAS with 1 toon if you really hate the missions that much and if you actually are UASing why would you bypass the Jungle missions??

If you are worried about the XP grind for skill points then you can easily UAS with 3 toons, or you can UAS with 6 with virtually no gold and no XP faming at all (you have more than enough skill points by L20 to UAS a single toon). Surely the only reason you can be running a 7th toon is because you want to play them... in which case why run??

Btw, I'm not saying "you" I just mean "the global you" as in everybody using runners in this way. Also this isn't a flame or whatever, I just really want to know what the point is in the scenario you refer to (7th toon).

Hiya!,

Since it's a "global you", I'll give my second account as a example. Of the four characters on my second account, 2 are PVP and 2 are PVE, all serve as mules to my first account. The 2 PVE characters are being run everywhere. I have no desire to play the game again with these characters.

The two characters being run are named, "Maina Kittys valet" and "Maina Kittys closet". The whole point of their existence is to show up anywhere Maina Kitty is and "deliver the goods". In a way it's Roleplay, Maina Kitty has servants.

One point of playing through the game several times. I do it all the time. Maina helps guildies and anyone else for that matter, she's always playing through parts of the story over and over again.

The problem with running, is simply the bad players. Lots of people have reasons to run through the game. Like real life it's the people that abuse something thats generally harmless, that cause the problems posted above. I admire some of the runners and the skill they have shown. I also like that players have made new "jobs" and/or businesses inside this world.

Thanks,

Maina

RangerRob

11-04-2006, 16:10

Since it's a "global you", I'll give my second account as a example. Of the four characters on my second account, 2 are PVP and 2 are PVE, all serve as mules to my first account. The 2 PVE characters are being run everywhere. I have no desire to play the game again with these characters.
Hi Maina,

Many thanks for the kind explaination. I have to admit I honestly had not thought about people ever using more than one account for PvP. I always assumed the would UAS one account and then simply do all their PvPing from that account, even those with 2nd accounts I would assume they used that for storage and PvE whilst keeping PvP on their main account. I guess that explains the "7th toon" scenario.

Thanks! :smiley:

maina

11-04-2006, 16:30

Hi Maina,

Many thanks for the kind explaination. I have to admit I honestly had not thought about people ever using more than one account for PvP. I always assumed the would UAS one account and then simply do all their PvPing from that account, even those with 2nd accounts I would assume they used that for storage and PvE whilst keeping PvP on their main account. I guess that explains the "7th toon" scenario.

Thanks! :smiley:

Hiya!,

Well actually....I don't PVP with the second account. I have a PVP slot for that on my main account. The two PVP characters on the second account, were created as "quick and dirty" storage and donated to my Guild for everyones extras.

Like the two PVE accounts, the two PVP characters can meet any guildie in the temple or guildhall to exchage goods without haveing to log Maina off. That works great if I'm in the middle of a mission and a guildie needs something. I only need to pause a moment to do the trade and don't have to leave a instance to get stuff to my guildies.

I will add though, being in a town and having "Maina Kittys Valet" show up to trade is also a vainity thing, and gets laughs and comments sometimes. I was once asked if that character was play'd by my real life "slave"..:laughing:

Though that did give ideas of what to name one of the characters I'll get from Factions..........(Not really though, Maina Kittys against slavery in the general sense. Between consenting adults? thats a whole other "game"..:shocked: )

Thanks,

maina

Nekretaal

11-04-2006, 16:30

my 2 cents:

(1) A lot of the running is paid for by people who dont want to do the main story again but do want to try out a different profession in the elite dungeons... or get a slightly better character than the ones you can create off the bat in pvp... but this creates a problem when newer players realize that they can run to droks (or wherever) for the armor and leveling and then miss out on half of the game. Also these newer players dont have the money for the runs or the armor and feel pissy and/or get annoying because they dont have the money. It is a real game-design problem.

(2) Another game design problem is the balance of warriors generally. They are too strong compared to the power level of the other types of characters, and it shows for most of the game. However, the dungeons in the postgame reflect a tilt in the balance. PuGs in Tombs prefer pets to warriors, PuGs in Sorrows Furnace or FoW want the warrior to hold a book or a gear and not even attack, Monsters in UW will destroy the warrior... and so-on and so forth. Instead of wanting three warriors for every quest or mission, groups only take one or zero. The whole game the warrior owns everything, and it is kind of a shock when he suddenly isnt needed any more. At this point the warrior can either quit, move to PvP (where warriors are similarly unbalanced until the most elite levels), or try to get gold by selling services.

Shana Kenoi

11-04-2006, 19:43

Scutilla

11-04-2006, 20:50

I would be much happier if there was no running services in the game. Three reasons:

1) First-time players should under NO circumstances use a runner. Far too often I hear stories of people who just got out of Pre-Searing who took a run to Lion's Arch and now has no clue what to do, the least of which not even knowing what a mission is. On top of basic game knowledge, being run prevents people from learning the combat skills they need to be successful in high-level areas.

2) Poor PUG quality is no excuse for taking a runner. Every area, mission, and bonus other than Dragon's Lair bonus, THK bonus, and Tombs (and of course UW and FoW) can be done with a full team of henchmen. Granted, not everyone is at the skill level to do that yet, but if that's true, how is getting run going to make you better? :wink:

3) If you've played through the game already and don't want to do it again, instead of paying for a runner save your money and do it yourself! Either have the character just run himself (if he's of a class that makes for a good runner), or have a friend or guildmate help you out (if you've been playing enough to have beaten the game several times, you probably have plenty of in-game friends to call upon).

It aggrivates me to no end to enter Sanctum Cay or Elona (or even places like Ascalon or Lion's Arch) and see nothing but spams for or by runners. Then I just sigh sadly and turn my attention to what henchmen I want to bring with me :tongue:

(As a side note, judging by the FPE it looks like many areas will be unrunnable in Factions- there are some towns such as Eternal Grove where you need to do a storyline quest before they will let you in.)

Zaxares

12-04-2006, 12:46

2) Poor PUG quality is no excuse for taking a runner. Every area, mission, and bonus other than Dragon's Lair bonus, THK bonus, and Tombs (and of course UW and FoW) can be done with a full team of henchmen. Granted, not everyone is at the skill level to do that yet, but if that's true, how is getting run going to make you better? :wink:

Sorry, Scutilla, but I have to say that it IS possible to do Dragon's Lair bonus and THK bonus with only henchies. I know, because I did it. :wink: I've heard that some people have managed to complete Tombs with all henchies too.