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Kyrion Hellcat
09-01-2006, 17:14
Mmmm... Do I have the Honor of writing the very first opening post on this forum?

Anyway...

Seems that the Asassin's primary ability allows him to recover energy with each successful critical strike.

That leads me to the conclusion that many of his abilities are expensive, in terms of energy.

Probably it has a 25 energy pool base and 3 pips or regeneration, much like the Ranger, and maybe he doesn't use adrenal skills to compensate for the heavy cost of his abilities, depending exclusively on his "critical energy gain".

That leads me as well to think that ranger's Expertise will be a more than viable option to compensate the lack of "Critical Strikes", (except for spell abilities)... and probably Assasin will be a good secondary for rangers...

Toughts?

Ubermancer
09-01-2006, 18:03
Wild Blow.


Lose all Adrenaline. If it hits, this attack will be a critical hit. If Wild Blow hits, any "Stance" being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be "Blocked" or "Evaded"

Kyrion Hellcat
09-01-2006, 18:58
I already thought about WB...

But probably, there'll be some tweaks to several existing skills in the game to accomodate/make room for the new classes.

And a skill that cannot be blocked or evaded, able to provide extra energy (for the assassin) each 5 seconds, able to kill any defensive mesmer/warrior/ranger stance, and all that without needing to invest any attribute points to make it fully effective... surely won't pass unnoticed for the 'tweak squad'.

It would be like giving an explosive to a terrorist...

Erasculio
09-01-2006, 22:09
And a skill that cannot be blocked or evaded, able to provide extra energy (for the assassin) each 5 seconds, able to kill any defensive mesmer/warrior/ranger stance, and all that without needing to invest any attribute points to make it fully effective... surely won't pass unnoticed for the 'tweak squad'.

Haven't you just described the skill as it is today, though? The only difference is that the Assassin maybe would be able to gain energy through it, but other than that, everything there already applies to Wild Blow.

I agree with the Op's speculation about the Assassin's energy. The magazine comments about how the Assassin is a mix of a killer and a caster makes me believe she will have the in-between stats of the Ranger.

Erasculio

CKaz
09-01-2006, 22:20
I had a friend wishing for thief/assassin in chapter one and I suggested R/W

Quite frankly the A is looking pretty close to that/will leverage with those well, I think a A/W (as whats being hinted at here and with a rumored stance) might even reach silly-good.

Once again looking like A/W >> W/A just like R/W >> W/R (arguably)

Be nice if Warrior's primary attribute got a shot in the arm, his armor and runes remain his solace it'd appear. Well and there are some good strength skills.

Dabbo
09-01-2006, 22:49
And chances are there are gonna be some skills in that primary attribute that increase the probability of getting a critical hit...which means assassins' attacks will be weak and fast (which you could probably have already inferred).

How frequent are critical hits nowadays, anyways? I've never really paid any attention.

It's gonna be fun to see the new possibilities with this, eh? I can't wait ^^

zweistein
09-01-2006, 22:53
How frequent are critical hits nowadays, anyways? I've never really paid any attention.

It might be nice to see if my hit was critical or not on damage numbers.

Also, IIRC, when foe is running, every hit to him is critical

Ubermancer
09-01-2006, 23:59
Critical hits are interesting in how they operate in the game.

Firstly critical hits always deal the exact same damage - no exceptions. Because critical hits always deal the same damage it means the game is using a single value from the weapon for the base damage, and the value it uses is the max damage listed on a weapon.

A critical hit grants approximately a 41.42% damage increase (otherwise identical to the square root of 2). What isn't fully obvious is that this is the equivalent of removing 20AL from the target. So in order to emulate a critical hit in our equation, we simply add -20 to the General Shift Modifier in our calculations.

The exact chance of getting a critical hit is still unknown as it is based both on your weapon attribute and the level difference between you and your target. I have determined an equation that gives you a small indication on how often you will cause a critical hit. It is by no means 100% accurate and should only be used as a rough guide:

Critical hit chance = (1+[1.25*Attribute])*2^( [CLVL - TLVL]/5)

Where, Attribute = your weapon attribute level
CLVL = your character level
TLVL = target's level

Basically you will have approximately a 16% chance to cause a critical hit when you have a level 12 attribute. For every 5 levels above your target your critical hit chance will double, and for every 5 levels below your target your chance will half.

16 weapon mastery vs level 20 target at level 20 = 21% crit chance

Zero
10-01-2006, 00:00
It might be nice to see if my hit was critical or not on damage numbers.

Also, IIRC, when foe is running, every hit to him is critical
Well you can see when you reach a criticle hit with a weapon, it'll be a fixed number for each class your hitting and what weapon your using. If you want you could grab wild blow and go test all the melee weapon's. I can't remember what the crit damage is for each weapon off the top of my head...

But yeh, I know you probably meant the number beign a different colour or somethign along those lines :p

Kyrion Hellcat
10-01-2006, 00:22
BTW... Candy weapons are perfect for testing, since they have fixed damage...

I bet that the energy gain from Critical Strikes will be equivalent to 1 point of energy for each attribute point, and perhaps +1% extra chance of getting a critical hit for each attribute point.

laugm
10-01-2006, 02:13
BTW... Candy weapons are perfect for testing, since they have fixed damage...

I bet that the energy gain from Critical Strikes will be equivalent to 1 point of energy for each attribute point, and perhaps +1% extra chance of getting a critical hit for each attribute point.

1 energy for each point? that would be a lot.....10 points=10 energy per critical

That would make soul reaping look even worse.......

GammaRay
10-01-2006, 02:56
That would make soul reaping look even worse.......

What? Soul Reaping is bad? It's my second favorite primary attribute. Practically unlimited energy. ^_^

ronaldsmcdonaldc
10-01-2006, 03:02
ONE HIT KO'S PPL assasin are known for fast swift deadly kills and silently. they should have a non aggro skill which allows them to just fight one person or pull a throat slit. yea thats wat i'm talking about but. there should be if he does pull a throat slit he should lose like 200 life due to one hit ko or something. well that skills not so reasonable anymore lol

Ace Bear
10-01-2006, 04:12
ONE HIT KO'S PPL assasin are known for fast swift deadly kills and silently. they should have a non aggro skill which allows them to just fight one person or pull a throat slit. yea thats wat i'm talking about but. there should be if he does pull a throat slit he should lose like 200 life due to one hit ko or something. well that skills not so reasonable anymore lol
Sorry Amigo, but in PVP that would make the Assassin unstoppable(all Assassin teams ftw?). Think of balance.

Ubermancer
10-01-2006, 05:20
Modern definition of Assassin is someone sent to kill someone else. It has definate undertones of being a highly skilled proffessional, but it is not neccessarily that, or someone who must even kill in one hit, or even unseen... just someone who is hired to kill someone, and is not so lowly as to be called a hitman.

Of course, you could run off of the archaic origin of the word...

But their magical abilities seem to resemble that of the similiarly archaic myths regarding Ninjas more then Assassins.

Either way, they are cool enough for me.

SepticFlesh
10-01-2006, 07:37
Kinda off topic here but since we can expect assasins to be very quick with their attacks (I would be dissapointed and would think it stupid if they were not) using their melee with barbs and mark of pain would be a pretty brutal combo...


Hurry up and give us the assasin already, damn it!.... please.

Longasc
10-01-2006, 09:05
I think we finally found a class that will attract even more jerks than W/Mo and W/R! :)

CÚrilia
10-01-2006, 10:13
A whole forum of speculations! That will be funny...

There is one thing I was wondering if assassins live up to their name (dealing a lot of damage in a single strike) if assassin-spike wouldn't be the next spike type... (of course you could always protect in the same way as against air spikes...)

tarutaru
10-01-2006, 11:44
well, all i have to say is that im going to be laughing my *** off with all the nubs playing assassins (akin to all the nubs right now playing w/mo or w/r).

as I do now, its...
Spiteful Spirit --> Insidious Parasite --> Empathy --> Clumsiness --> FTW!!!

Assassins try and do one hit kill?!?! Signet of Midnight.
Then, finally after all the dumbdumbs stop playing it, I will take a reroll and check it out.

Kyrion Hellcat
10-01-2006, 11:49
With the information we have, "Balanced Stance" is the skill that really screws assasins... Not only it directly counters its primary attribute (negate critical hits) but it also negates the energy gain (since they cannot score critical hits)... But again, BS is a stance, which can be killed by Wild Blow... so Wild Blow is becoming more and more indispensable for assassins. And we know what happens in this game when everyone over-uses one skill...

Also, I don't believe that assassins will make great damage with only one hit. The preview talked about "powerful dagger combos" which lead me to think that the assassin's dagger skills will work 'in secuence' much like 'Sever Artery' and 'Gash' or 'Dismember' and 'Axe Twist'. That is:

Dagger skill 1: Your opponent suffers X.
Dagger skill 2: If your opponent is suffering X from dagger skill 1, Now also suffers from Y.
Dagger skill 3: If your opponent is suffering from Y, You deal LOTS of damage.

Parker Bsb
10-01-2006, 12:24
... kind of like how assassins in Dii charged with each attack and then dealt major damage with a finishing blow maybe Kyrion?

All in all I'm excited to see new classes coming out, but I think I'll be one of the first to roll a Ritualist over a assassin (and I LOVE ninjas :p )

Zero
10-01-2006, 14:53
... kind of like how assassins in Dii charged with each attack and then dealt major damage with a finishing blow maybe Kyrion?
Heh, the Sin was my char in D2 :D

I think i'll honestly be sticking with my Ranger for the start of the expansion, I'll go explore the whole place, get all the quest's finished, try out some R/A and R/Ri (i'm refusing to call the ranger an Ra....) then make a new character. The reason I forego the initial making is because 1) Presear and Ascalon slaughter my mentality...and 2) There's going to be a huge surge of Sin's and Ritualists for the few week's. Which is probably why I'll most likely be making a Mo/A :p

Fallen_62
10-01-2006, 16:29
Mo/A O.o Uh... Ok... :p

I will prolly be rolling an Assassin right off the bat. I love the idea of an assassin and I cant wait for it to be released.

Zero
10-01-2006, 16:45
Mo/A O.o Uh... Ok... :p

I will prolly be rolling an Assassin right off the bat. I love the idea of an assassin and I cant wait for it to be released.
yeh, loadsa fun when a Smite monk pulls out its arsenal on the unsuspecting victim :lol: Besides I'm due a monk in pve but won't delete any of my current character's or get rid of my pvp spot :p Maybe I'll go Mo/Ri but its gonna be Mo/something :lol: We'll see in the end I guess ^^

Fallen_62
10-01-2006, 16:48
I love my Mo/Me, but she is going to have to take a side seat to my A/N, even though I prolly wont use the secondary... at first.

Scutilla
10-01-2006, 17:17
Since criticals will actually be important, maybe there will be a little "critical!" message on the hovering damage numbers so we actually know when it happens. I know I almost never pay attention to criticals (except when I'm in Ascalon with my ranger and I do 130 with an attack instead of 80 :p ).

There'll probably be other stuff to counter criticals other than Dolyak Signet and Balanced Stance... I can picture something similar to Mantra of Resolve and Soothing Images, only applying to criticals instead of interruption and adrenaline respectively.

I'll be treading new ground in Chapter 2 with my ranger the day it comes out, but I give myself about a week before I break down and create an A/Ra.

Mo/A: The class abbreviation that will be made fun of more than E/Mo.

Ubermancer
10-01-2006, 17:32
*wishes he could make a monk named simple "Bird"*

Zero
10-01-2006, 17:32
Mo/A: The class abbreviation that will be made fun of more than E/Mo.
Wonder if that gives them permission to give a high-pitched sqawk before attacking :lol:

Fallen_62
10-01-2006, 17:33
Wonder if that gives them permission to give a high-pitched sqawk before attacking :lol:

They would be my first target in PvP if they did that, simply because that would be so annoying :lol:

Zero
10-01-2006, 17:35
They would be my first target in PvP if they did that, simply because that would be so annoying :lol:
I am so making a Mo/A and taking you out with it in GvG squawking now :D

Fallen_62
10-01-2006, 17:37
I am so making a Mo/A and taking you out with it in GvG squawking now :D

Thats OK, my A/N will kick your butt any day :p

Zero
10-01-2006, 17:43
Thats OK, my A/N will kick your butt any day :p
We'll see. Though I'm yet to meet you in pvp you've told me yourself the stories of Dii vs GWO :D :surprise:

Fallen_62
10-01-2006, 17:45
We'll see. Though I'm yet to meet you in pvp you've told me yourself the stories of Dii vs GWO :D :surprise:

I didnt say anything about Dii, just about you :p

Anyway, back on topic...

Ace Bear
10-01-2006, 20:43
(This is assuming each point in the Assassin's primary attribute gives 1 energy per crit hit)

To make sure the Assassin is balanced the only way that the Assassin could have melee skills is if most of them cost 10ish energy or if they cost adrenaline. I think for balance it would have to be the adrenaline skills for the melee and 10-15 energy for the hexes. However I do have one question. Does it actually say anywhere that the assassin is melee? Assassins can be short-long range with Daggers(which would support the Hexes, none of the Hex casters in the game so far are built for melee) so maybe the Assassin doesn't have to be melee. Just a thought though.

CKaz
10-01-2006, 22:10
Well I think it'd be a nice feature in general (little diff color/bolder #) but not necessary, even for assassin. Keep in mind they'll get the purple '1' or whatever it is they're getting on a crit hit.

Wonder how fast these daggers move though, and how IW works with it :love57:

Zxanadu
10-01-2006, 22:56
Now under the assumption the assassin will have some type of increased attack speed - how fast do you think they would attack using berserker stance or hundred blades?

Go speed slasher, Go speed slasher - GOOOOOOO!!!

Maybe, it would help a hammer be a more usable weapon in PvE. Endless Earthshaker.....:clap:

laugm
11-01-2006, 01:38
Now under the assumption the assassin will have some type of increased attack speed - how fast do you think they would attack using berserker stance or hundred blades?

Go speed slasher, Go speed slasher - GOOOOOOO!!!

Maybe, it would help a hammer be a more usable weapon in PvE. Endless Earthshaker.....:clap:

well they might only get increased attack speed with weapons from their profession......otherwise using warrior weapons would be way too overpowering if they get adrenaline much faster than warriors

GammaRay
11-01-2006, 02:13
Well, remember that it's weapon type that sets attack speed. Swords and axes have a set attack speed, regardless of the class that uses them. Just because an Ele uses a bow or a Ranger uses a staff doesn't mean that the attack rate changes.

If daggers are dual-weilded, I'd expect a not-so-fast attack rate, because you'd be striking TWICE per attack. If the daggers are used with only one hand, I'd imagine they'd be fairly fast.

BannedSoWhat
11-01-2006, 12:57
You can still make a A/R and use tigers fury. And yeah each time we score a crit, the purple +1 (i doubt it, you will get more energy per crit..) will pop up. And I think the "teleport to target" skill meens it's a mele class....

Merls The Sneaky
11-01-2006, 13:34
You can still make a A/R and use tigers fury. And yeah each time we score a crit, the purple +1 (i doubt it, you will get more energy per crit..) will pop up. And I think the "teleport to target" skill meens it's a mele class....

actually i read the article and James Phinney states.... "One obvious [new] combination is the assassin/elementalist, who can use teleportation skills to make point-blank area-of-effect skills that much more potent." So It's not necesarily a melee class. Not that im saying it isnt a melee class either.

CKaz
11-01-2006, 16:22
actually i read the article and James Phinney states.... "One obvious [new] combination is the assassin/elementalist, who can use teleportation skills to make point-blank area-of-effect skills that much more potent." So It's not necesarily a melee class. Not that im saying it isnt a melee class either.

That actually highlights one of my concerns too.
So all current classes get a shot in the arm, but a lot of it might well be tailored for use with the two new classes - and more likely than not as secondary. Not a horribly bad thing, but on face value that means current classes showing up a little lackluster compared to the rest of the pack (elementalist, mesmer) could really use some spice for their primary usage within those new skills. Not just more of the same and/or a few parlor tricks.

HiItsMe
11-01-2006, 16:45
actually i read the article and James Phinney states.... "One obvious [new] combination is the assassin/elementalist, who can use teleportation skills to make point-blank area-of-effect skills that much more potent." So It's not necesarily a melee class. Not that im saying it isnt a melee class either.

Sure we can't be 100% sure what the class will be like, but the skills, and the twin dagger look sudgest that it's mele. I'm 95% sure that it will turn out that way.

heavymetal rules
11-01-2006, 18:23
you know i see that just about everyone, myself included is either making an a/(the same classes we have now) or the ritualis /same, but sure that's good and well because some of us are very familiar with the profession that we have for our various toons.

but what i think that just some of us fail to forget is that it's just not the assassin and ritualist that will be available, there's going to be more then just 2 new prof. So it could become very interesting in the different builds that will be showing up. And i must say it's going to be alot of FUN!!!.

Scutilla
11-01-2006, 18:38
@ HiItsMe: I imagine it'll be that way too, but it would be neat if Assassins had a small selection of throwing dagger skills (they'd just use their melee daggers). Just something neat that the Warrior doesn't have, they pretty much have zero ranged skills- although I guess that's why they call it a "melee" class :lol:

@ heavymetal: I'm pretty sure that Assassin and Ritualist are the only two new professions... if there were more they'd probably announce them before the beta event. And judging by the poll in this forum, there will be quite a few A/Ri's out there (some people don't want to have to make two new chars to experience the new classes).

Zero
11-01-2006, 19:17
@ heavymetal: I'm pretty sure that Assassin and Ritualist are the only two new professions... if there were more they'd probably announce them before the beta event. And judging by the poll in this forum, there will be quite a few A/Ri's out there (some people don't want to have to make two new chars to experience the new classes).
Metal's talking about new skills for the current proffesions ;)

Parker Bsb
11-01-2006, 19:26
completly off topic, but Zero if you start making the MoA noises during a GvG I'll petetion to have you muted :lol:

From what I can tell if you gain energy from anything you get the purple +X over your head so Ican't see why they would take that away from the assisin.

On a second note, any class swings a sword at the same speed, so I think the only way for a assassin to hit faster than a warrior swinging a dagger is for dual weilding on primary assassins only. (Did I ever mention that I never could spell the word assassin correctly... I look at the forum name every time :rolleyes: ).

Pure speculation on my part but just keeping in line with the game mechanics

Patccmoi
11-01-2006, 21:27
Still, if Assassins TRULY hit faster than warriors can (even with daggers only), they're gonna be crazy Fear Me! spammers.

Turn on For Greater Justice!, use an IAS stance and it's 15 seconds where you're decimating your target and they never even reach 5E because you Fear Me! every 1-1.5 seconds (with warriors you can already do it every 2 seconds)... This sounds like fun ^^

But really i'm not one to go worrying over and say 'OMG did ANet tought of that?'. I'm pretty sure they play the game enough and know how the skills work enough to adjust everything as needed. Will likely take a few FotMs before nearly everything gets balanced, but i doubt they'll release a truly broken version and that they won't think of relatively obvious skill combos when balancing out the game. They've done an impressive job up to now.

iamArc
12-01-2006, 00:24
I think they may have slightly less damage than your average war, but their attacks could alternate between dagger hands making them attack a bit faster to make up for the decreased damage. I also hope they add a few Whirlwind-esque fire spells cuz im naming my assasin arkya burnstormer and I'm looking forward to porting to someone and shouting BURNTSORMER and using a spell then porting away. :lol:

CKaz
12-01-2006, 01:11
I've seen the port IN but not so much port OUT.
Unless I'm mistaken we've seen mention of two 'ports' -

Assassin - has one - get up close and personal, possibly more health to boot
Elementalist - Air line (see as regular skill but Mag suggested Elite? meh)
Another one that is a Welcome Wagon spell

Necro - various skills you port to a corpse (the ones out there now/Chp1)

But if you're on the inside you may know of more for Assassin/other classes. I know the Ele (at least for some builds) wouldn't mind a way out anyways :rolleyes:

Erasculio
12-01-2006, 01:49
The article also mentions that, since the Assassin dual wields, it will have different kinds of attack - an off hand attack is different from a direct attack, and the attack skills make a difference between them (for example, one of the skills listed was specifically said to be an off hand attack).

I wonder if both hands would count as attacks for Warrior skills.

Erasculio

superiorrunes
12-01-2006, 03:32
The article also mentions that, since the Assassin dual wields, it will have different kinds of attack - an off hand attack is different from a direct attack, and the attack skills make a difference between them (for example, one of the skills listed was specifically said to be an off hand attack).

I wonder if both hands would count as attacks for Warrior skills.

Erasculio

good point. and ive got a feeling that offhand and dagger attacks will be weapon-specific attacks, like sword, hammer, and axe attacks. the point of them will be that with dual wielding, you can make combos with your main dagger attacks followed by offhand attacks. Thats my theory anyways. that way there wont be so much worry as far as ppl using dual wielding with axes skills or swords skills or such nonsense.

Necromas
12-01-2006, 05:14
(This is assuming each point in the Assassin's primary attribute gives 1 energy per crit hit)

To make sure the Assassin is balanced the only way that the Assassin could have melee skills is if most of them cost 10ish energy or if they cost adrenaline. I think for balance it would have to be the adrenaline skills for the melee and 10-15 energy for the hexes. However I do have one question. Does it actually say anywhere that the assassin is melee? Assassins can be short-long range with Daggers(which would support the Hexes, none of the Hex casters in the game so far are built for melee) so maybe the Assassin doesn't have to be melee. Just a thought though.

If they do have a ranged attack, it will only be with certain daggers, like most daggers would be melee but they could also have throwing daggers which deal less damage and you cant use melee dagger skills with them.