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Longasc
20-01-2006, 10:09
I just tried to dual wield daggers.

But they always come as a bundle:

Dagger / Sai / Kukri of... whatever and...

all are "both hands"


So you have one item, but it is basically two, one in each hand.


But not two items that you can combine, it is just a two-handed weapon treated as two. And I am not even sure about this:

The attacks are around sword/axe speed, seems as if the damage comes from the criticals and styles/conditions as the overall speed is not higher and the max damage much lower than sword.


EDIT: The other dual wield thread is dated and started out with speculations - this is about the "real thing".

rainchaser
20-01-2006, 13:13
I would think the reason they did it this way is so you couldn't have dual weapon mods on a character at once otherwise we would end up with the whole "echantments last 40% longer" problem again.

CÚrilia
20-01-2006, 14:06
I would think the reason they did it this way is so you couldn't have dual weapon mods on a character at once otherwise we would end up with the whole "echantments last 40% longer" problem again.
Simple enough to avoid this problem: weapons that are designed for main hand and weapons for off hand with each their weapon mods... (the same way you can't equip an artefact as a weapon and so have two artefacts)

So I think the reason for their choice is other than that.

Longasc
20-01-2006, 14:16
I agree that avoiding the stacking of things like faster recharge / casting speed / enchantments must have been the reason behind this.

While main- and offhand weapons are a viable solution, too, the implementation of a "two weapon set" item is simple and efficient.


People are still figuring out when the second weapon strikes - maybe triggered by a critical strike or whatever.

Sometimes Assassins do terrible high damage, sometimes they strike for 5 damage...

Tanamoril
20-01-2006, 15:11
They certainly do NOT attack at the same speed as warrior. Zealous daggers give MASSIVE energy regen. Try it.

damkel
20-01-2006, 17:16
They certainly do NOT attack at the same speed as warrior. Zealous daggers give MASSIVE energy regen. Try it.

u sure thats not ur critical hits giving u all that energy? :wink:

Alen
20-01-2006, 17:35
I also have to say that the assassin seems to attack at a higher rate than a sword wielding warrior.

From what I understand until now when wielding the daggers normal damage is done. BUT the assassin has 2 atributtes that can increase its damage.
1. Dagger Mastery: As we already know a higher rank in this atributte will contribute to a higher chance of a critical strike. Additionally "There is a 2% chance per rank of Dagger Mastery that attacks from your daggers will doublestrike", my current guess is that this also counts for attack skills.
2. Critical Strikes: "...you gain an additional 1% chance to critical hit" per rank. And "You gain +2 Energy whenever you score a critical hit this way" hence the zealous weaponry of the assassin is even more enhanced.
I'm not quite sure if the doublestrike and the critical hit work together or not, I guess I'll be forced to just play more :rolleyes:

These 2 attributes were probably more the reason for a single dual-hand weapon in stead of 2 individual ones. Otherwise you could face the assassin to become overpowered when the damage would be split onto 2 daggers

EvilSage
20-01-2006, 17:42
it wasn't the dual weild i was expecting, but I think it works out quite well in the aspect that everyone has mention that the assasin could become too over powered

WingspanTT
20-01-2006, 17:42
Yeah, you will notice sometimes when attacking or using a skill that your character will hit 2x more than normal. I guess that's the double strike.

GrimShade
20-01-2006, 17:48
Agree'ed not the duel wielding I had expected, but I think they did a better way of doing it. I am wondering if the different daggers have different speeds associated with them. I can see an argument for the Sai being faster than the machete style weapons, but that should also effect their bonuses.

I must try a W/A with the machete style weapons later!

Alen
20-01-2006, 17:56
Would be hard to see if the Sai is faster than the others. What I did just notice is that the 3 diffrent types of daggers don't have the exact same bonuses. But I doubt this will stay in the upcoming chapter as there is (as far as I know) also no difference in the different swords, axes, hammers.

Purifier
20-01-2006, 18:03
as for the double hit question, it happens when using a Dual Strike SKill, you can hit twice and yes both hits can crit hit. A lucky string of crits can put all but a warrior through the floor its really nice.

and weapon speed is as much faster than swords as swords are to axes. so they are a good deal faster than swords but hit not as hard. And yeah zeaous hilt gives some crazy regen especially when paired with crit strikes skill. Im working on making a combo build to ephasize damage over conditions yes there are skills to do it but Its getting them with faction thats taking time.

Alen
20-01-2006, 18:12
I'm curently using my interrupter ranger to get my faction simply because my assassin just hasn't gathered enough skills and strength

Patccmoi
20-01-2006, 19:48
Swords and Axes have the exact same attack speed, 1.33 sec. And i'm pretty sure daggers have the exact same too from what i saw.

My guess is that maybe the different daggers have different bonuses similar to bows.

For example, maybe one has more chances to dual strike. Maybe one has an innate 10% Armor Penetration (Sais?). Dunno for the last one.

I doubt they'd put 3 models if the 3 are the same. Swords have different models, but they're all called swords. These are have a different name, similar to bows, so imo they must have some specific properties.

Longasc
20-01-2006, 20:23
The thing is, between bows there are differences, while swords are as fast as axes, and all sword and axes are the same.


DAGGERS... well, they really look like they are attacking faster than a sword!

But remember some hammer moves - the damage is done, and then the warrior swings the weapon. Also the Brutal Mauling attack of the bear pet - they all have the same speed, but the animation looks slower/faster.


I am not yet sure how fast daggers really are, but I still have the feeling its the usual 1.33 seconds.


Good observations on the dual strike!

Kyso No Oni
21-01-2006, 02:20
what I like is the fact that sais are blunt and supposed to be used for parrying so do they deal blunt damage slashing or piercing ?

bet anet never condsidered that

Bel Ebih
21-01-2006, 05:06
Swords and Axes have the exact same attack speed, 1.33 sec. And i'm pretty sure daggers have the exact same too from what i saw.



The thing is that swords and axes are consistant in their attack rate, while daggers do double or triple attacks after every few regular attacks. Go to the training area and attack a barrel without using anyskills. You'll notice that every few hits, the assassin will strike 2-3 times in fast succesion and then go back to the regular attack speed. It's the same sort of speed increse you see when you do a full combo but with just regular attacks.

And no, it's not that the animation makes it seem that way like with sword attack animations. Pay attention to the actual numbers.

manveruppd
21-01-2006, 10:48
People, I do believe that the "set"of daggers is just a temporary measure for this weekend, and when Factionscomes out you'll be able to find and equip your daggers individually for each hand. It's easy to solve the upgrades problem in other ways.
I believe this is the case because when I was in the new Tombs, one of the Darknesses dropped a green dagger or ogreslaying, and that's a single item used in one hand.