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Rizzy
22-01-2006, 17:52
Simple...

Diversion on their Lead attack, if not their offhand attack and they're pretty much screwed.

Spiteful Spirit Apparently this seemingly useless curse is super deadly for the assassins seeing as how they attack much faster than Swords.

And last but not least... Gank.
Same principle that assassins use when taking out a monk.

Just like how AOE is finally coming into play in Arenas when it comes with ritualists.
They depend on their spirits and normally stay near and cluster their spirits.
You drop an AOE (Meteor Shower or Traps) GG ritualists, otherwise someone is going to have to kill their spirits.

With that said, assassins are not overpowered.
Monks can still stay alive if they know what they're doing.
It's just easier to kill a monk now with assassins :)

edit: Fallen - Do not post that pic again, Rizzy

tarutaru
22-01-2006, 18:09
seriously, mods please close this thread, or take away the picture.

and, as for the text of his commentary, omg did you just say Spiteful Spirit was *useless*? BWAHAHAHAHAHA do I even have to argue this? no, I don't think so, just let me tell you that killing assassins is by NO means whatsoever the only use of that awesome skill.

and yes, many assassins are not that good right now, but hey, neither were we when we first stepped into pvp our first day or two. when ppl learn to go beyond the premade builds (god awful, if I might add, someone tell anet to think of some better build, anything) they will see that assassins are Very powerful indeed. Especially when two gank any spellcaster.

as for the ritualist, yes aoe spells take them out quite easily, as they do to minion masters. But, you still see necros with a bunch of minions, dont you? Ritualists will adapt and learn, just as the necros did.

and, in case i havnt stressed this point enough, Mods for the love of all that is sane TAKE DOWN THAT PICTURE. thank you.

The Experimentor
22-01-2006, 18:20
Simple...

Diversion on their Lead attack, if not their offhand attack and they're pretty much screwed.

Spiteful Spirit Apparently this seemingly useless curse is super deadly for the assassins seeing as how they attack much faster than Swords.

And last but not least... Gank.
Same principle that assassins use when taking out a monk.

Just like how AOE is finally coming into play in Arenas when it comes with ritualists.
They depend on their spirits and normally stay near and cluster their spirits.
You drop an AOE (Meteor Shower or Traps) GG ritualists, otherwise someone is going to have to kill their spirits.

YES.

Which is why before you master chaining your attack skills or moving about with Shadow Arts, to play the Assassin, you must first learn...

... The Gentle Art Of Biding Your Time & Sneaking Up From Behind. :wink:

Seriously. :grin:

What I mean is, try to go for the kill while your targets themselves are busy, focused on someone else, out of Energy, looking the other way, etc. While they're not attacking us or weakened. That gives us all the safety and opening we need to spike damage him into a body bag.

I'm speaking from experience. The best targets for an Assassin is either a Warrior who thinks brute force can take anything down (I've racked up way too many Warrior kills), or a character who's not looking. When that happens, it only takes a split second to finish the mark.

An Assassin, as a melee character, is a surgical tool. While a Warrior can just bludgeon away at a target's defenses in hopes of overwhelming him, an Assassin must keep his eyes opening for that single shot he needs to make it count and finish the game. And you know that's really all he needs.

Don't just play the Assassin. Think like him. :cool:

thejasonpham
22-01-2006, 18:33
..........

Too Hot Fo You
22-01-2006, 18:39
No he said that SS is seemingly useless but kills off assassins pretty well ;)

Gangrel
22-01-2006, 19:05
Throw dirt and forget.. Thats what I do...

Suppemand
22-01-2006, 19:29
YES.

Which is why before you master chaining your attack skills or moving about with Shadow Arts, to play the Assassin, you must first learn...

... The Gentle Art Of Biding Your Time & Sneaking Up From Behind. :wink:

Seriously. :grin:

What I mean is, try to go for the kill while your targets themselves are busy, focused on someone else, out of Energy, looking the other way, etc. While they're not attacking us or weakened. That gives us all the safety and opening we need to spike damage him into a body bag.

I'm speaking from experience. The best targets for an Assassin is either a Warrior who thinks brute force can take anything down (I've racked up way too many Warrior kills), or a character who's not looking. When that happens, it only takes a split second to finish the mark.

An Assassin, as a melee character, is a surgical tool. While a Warrior can just bludgeon away at a target's defenses in hopes of overwhelming him, an Assassin must keep his eyes opening for that single shot he needs to make it count and finish the game. And you know that's really all he needs.

Don't just play the Assassin. Think like him. :cool:


Whatever he just said.

Yeah, you are able to do a lot of nasty things to an assasin, but when he suddenly pops up and stab you in the throat, then it's to late.

Patccmoi
22-01-2006, 22:59
I'm actually surprised at how well ANet managed to implement assassins in the game that PLAY like assassins.

It's not like WoW or w/e other game where you can stealth, get to a target from behind and kill them.

But still, assassins play the same. It's jump on a unsuspecting target and WAM, kill them before they know what hit them.

Fast KD are good for that. Scorpion Wire, Palm Strike + Ox Horns, etc.

And know how to use the Shadow Step skills. For example, recall on your monk, and Death's Charge an enemy caster, then unload your combo and take out recall.

Currently, most play assassins like warriors, which is understandable cause many just don't have any idea how to play and in Random Arena (where you see a ridiculous amount of them compared to everywhere else) they don't necessarily have the required backup. But they're obviously not meant to be played this way because they're way too easy to counter.

Yet, in a 5 sec combo they can take down a caster instantly, and appear in their face out of nowhere.

Suppemand
22-01-2006, 23:16
I agree with Patccmoi, its impressive how well ANet have made them work like assasins are supposed to be.

I agree that assasins aren't supposed to be played as warriors, when your offensive is this fragile, you can't effort to charge screaming towards the enemy.

My own assasin is kinda in the middle, acts passive and sneakylike before quickly dropping a target. I have yo unlock more skills, so i can work my killing chain a bit shorter, and go fore a more assasin like aprouch

Fallen_62
22-01-2006, 23:37
Rizzy, do not post that picture again. It was deleted the first time, you think it wouldnt have been this time?

Speederländer
23-01-2006, 04:36
What was the picture anyway? Anyone have a caption?

Fallen_62
23-01-2006, 04:52
What was the picture anyway? Anyone have a caption?

It was a rather lewd picture of a male Assassin and a pig... I do not want to see that picture again on these forums.

Zaxares
23-01-2006, 05:42
With my necromancer, I use the same anti-warrior spell combo on Assassins as I do for Warriors:

- Spiteful Spirit
- Insidious Parasite
- Parasitic Bond
- Plague Touch to hand back those nasty conditions

You'd have to be a moron to keep attacking me with SS and IP on you, but amazingly, many do! Deep Wound? Here, have it back. Bleeding? Back. Poison? Back. It all adds up fast.

The Experimentor
23-01-2006, 09:21
Currently, most play assassins like warriors, which is understandable cause many just don't have any idea how to play and in Random Arena (where you see a ridiculous amount of them compared to everywhere else) they don't necessarily have the required backup. But they're obviously not meant to be played this way because they're way too easy to counter.

Yet, in a 5 sec combo they can take down a caster instantly, and appear in their face out of nowhere.

Despite what I said, I too am guilty of this. :wink:

But during the PvP weekend, one of the things I'd do is break off from the main group of my team early in the game and travel away from them, usually in the opposite direction they're going. So while they go straight for the enemy team, I'd be sneaking around the long back door. When I finally get in combat, my team is already taking some hits and committed.

But the other team is also committed and have already chosen their targets. Even if my blip shows up in their radar, they're already doing damage to my teammates and will unlikely re-acquire me as a target when they're focusing on my teammates.

Okay, that sounds irresponsible, treacherous, sorely lacking in team work...

But at that point, I go up to the enemy player farthest from my and nearest to me. A few seconds later, he or she is on the ground, and his or her team is scattering and rushing around. My team is able to recover, resume and re-focus, and we're then able to capitalize on the advantage.

Not once did my team lose all those times I did that and went "solo intruder". Though I knew my teammates preferred I didn't.

Assassins are going to change the way most PUG's are going to play. Rather than sticking together, Assassins are going to be the class that need to go off alone and away to work well for themselves and their team. Assassins allow players to successfully and effectively attack from behind, forcing opponents to fight on two fronts.

Nequitia Oculte
23-01-2006, 12:36
With my necromancer, I use the same anti-warrior spell combo on Assassins as I do for Warriors:

- Spiteful Spirit
- Insidious Parasite
- Parasitic Bond
- Plague Touch to hand back those nasty conditions

You'd have to be a moron to keep attacking me with SS and IP on you, but amazingly, many do! Deep Wound? Here, have it back. Bleeding? Back. Poison? Back. It all adds up fast.

That's not all.. they use Frenzy while hexed with ss :D

Rizzy
23-01-2006, 14:35
With my necromancer, I use the same anti-warrior spell combo on Assassins as I do for Warriors:

- Spiteful Spirit
- Insidious Parasite
- Parasitic Bond
- Plague Touch to hand back those nasty conditions

You'd have to be a moron to keep attacking me with SS and IP on you, but amazingly, many do! Deep Wound? Here, have it back. Bleeding? Back. Poison? Back. It all adds up fast.


One counter for your Plague touch is... Fragility.
If you just transfer them back to the assassin, you're doing exactly what he wants.

And by the time you pass all the condtions back... lets see how this do...

DigressioN!!!

Cripple 30 Damage (plus plague touch, Fragility does +15 damage per condition suffered and recovered from)
Bleeding 30 Damage
Deepwound 30 Damage

thats.... 90 damage in all
Plus the high damage that was already inflicted apon you...

By the time all the conditions come back to me... I would need lets say... one more strike before you're dead.

Of course you're saying I have all these conditions on me right...
Doesnt really matter, Illusion of Weakness normally saves me from death.

Rizzy
23-01-2006, 14:39
That's not all.. they use Frenzy while hexed with ss :D
I love frenzied Assassins.
They go down so fast, I don't see why an assassin needs anymore augmentation to their attack speed, it's already fast enough IMO.

Using flurry would just mess up the damage, and using tiger's fury would just make you waste points, instead of putting it in Wilderness survival or Critical strikes which would allow you greater survivablity.

And holding a pet is out of the question, assassins already need 4 attack slots to do that awesome spike, holding a pet and tiger's fury would only give you enough for 1 more slot to "defend yourself" 2 if you're stupid and don't carry a res signet.

Oh yeah, best of all.... is the IW assassin and Dagger IW mesmers
As assassins we already know how much energy is being deprived from us for holding on to the daggers and having no energy reduction skills like Rangers.

Yet I see so many of them wearing the energy deduction amour running around using their skills... Half the time they're just standing there doing their normal attacks.

Iorek Valr
23-01-2006, 15:07
Signet of Midnight + Empathy + Spirit of Failure = Dead

They hit they take damage, the miss they take damage.

My personal fave Warrior / Assassin killer.

Dalliance Jade
23-01-2006, 15:23
My mesmer used empathy + spirit shackles (since their attacks are all energy based) to take down many an assassin.

My monk just spammed guardian. Missed attack = broken chain combination = basic, easily healed damage

Benkus
23-01-2006, 16:24
Assi's were no threat. No real threat that is... Wards against melee, armor buffs, aegis, SS, Life drains, etc. etc. so much that could be used against them, and messed the Assi up... I did'nt worry if an assi ran up to me. Or 2. 3 was a problem yeah... (i've played a lot of different chars this weekend).

In short: i was not too much impressed by the assassin.

xFallenAngel
23-01-2006, 18:42
If you can't handle getting blinded or targets with block/evasion(wether from Guardian, stances, or wards) you aren't playing your Assasin properly anyway.
My Assasin didn't really have any problems to kill people inside wards, Monks spamming Guardian or Mesmers using Empathy+Spirit Shackles.

Azgalon
23-01-2006, 19:00
If you can't handle getting blinded or targets with block/evasion(wether from Guardian, stances, or wards) you aren't playing your Assasin properly anyway.
My Assasin didn't really have any problems to kill people inside wards, Monks spamming Guardian or Mesmers using Empathy+Spirit Shackles.

What's yer secondary Angel? :)

beemander
23-01-2006, 21:06
What's yer secondary Angel? :)

duh dont u know its that new prof. LUCK!!! its so awesome u dont even need to select it as a prof or put attribute pts into it.

Patccmoi
23-01-2006, 22:00
Actually if you just unlock some of the assassins skills it can be very easy to have a full combo that can't miss.

Assassins have all the skills required to insure their full combo hits.

You got for one Expose Defenses.

Or some combos. A very simple example is this:

Way of the Fox, Palm Strike, Twisted Fangs. This isn't a full combo ofc, but it will insure you strike your Twisted, very fast too.

You got Unseen Fury that is pretty insane too if you have someone that can blind behind you, like an ele with Blinding Flash. You got a few skills to blind yourself, but it's hard to reapply them while comboing.

kate sullivan
23-01-2006, 22:00
for blindness use skills with condition removal or for stances use skils that cant be blocked or evaded

Zaxares
24-01-2006, 04:09
One counter for your Plague touch is... Fragility.
If you just transfer them back to the assassin, you're doing exactly what he wants.

And by the time you pass all the condtions back... lets see how this do...

DigressioN!!!

Cripple 30 Damage (plus plague touch, Fragility does +15 damage per condition suffered and recovered from)
Bleeding 30 Damage
Deepwound 30 Damage

thats.... 90 damage in all
Plus the high damage that was already inflicted apon you...

By the time all the conditions come back to me... I would need lets say... one more strike before you're dead.

Of course you're saying I have all these conditions on me right...
Doesnt really matter, Illusion of Weakness normally saves me from death.

That's a good tactic. If I mess up, or if you have help from another person hitting me, I'm certainly dead.

However, you're forgetting that Insidious Parasite also heals me everytime you hit me. You're suffering nearly 60 damage everytime you hit me, about 21 of which is health gain back for me. In 4 attacks you've dealt 240 damage to yourself, and I've healed 84 damage. You can bet I'm also using other spells on you or wanding you in the meantime. Enfeeble will seriously cut down on your damage. If the duel lasts longer than 20 seconds, Parasitic Bond also kicks in and heals me back for 126 health.

Illusion of Weakness is nice, but unless you've got good points in Illusion, it may not be enough to save you from death. Particularly as degen does NOT trigger IoW.

Rizzy
24-01-2006, 12:19
That's a good tactic. If I mess up, or if you have help from another person hitting me, I'm certainly dead.

However, you're forgetting that Insidious Parasite also heals me everytime you hit me. You're suffering nearly 60 damage everytime you hit me, about 21 of which is health gain back for me. In 4 attacks you've dealt 240 damage to yourself, and I've healed 84 damage. You can bet I'm also using other spells on you or wanding you in the meantime. Enfeeble will seriously cut down on your damage. If the duel lasts longer than 20 seconds, Parasitic Bond also kicks in and heals me back for 126 health.

Illusion of Weakness is nice, but unless you've got good points in Illusion, it may not be enough to save you from death. Particularly as degen does NOT trigger IoW.
That's true, but I'm one of the assassins that dont run up to a target yelling DANGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! O.o

Anyways, there was a funny duel between me an an energy denial mesmer...

So he was draining me and messing up my combos... i got pissed and started attacking him... so I ran off... and he followed me away from the safety of his monk who is being pounded by 3 guys now.


Once the 2 of us were alone...
He casted spirit shackles on me... it quickly brought my energy down to zero.
And then he started using, Energy Surge, Energy Burn.... but at zero energy those things didnt hurt me at all...

Still with spirit shackles on me and suffering minimal damage from his wand attacks, and he was about to die... he tried to use Ether Feast... the moment I saw that, I laughed my *** off and choked on my spit... >.>

Not only had he managed to drain me dry completely, but he was silly enough to take me on, 1 v 1 and use energy draining skills when I already have no energy.

Needless to say, once he's dead.... I could just run up to the monk rebuild my energy and unleash my fragility combo on him.

xFallenAngel
24-01-2006, 18:40
duh dont u know its that new prof. LUCK!!! its so awesome u dont even need to select it as a prof or put attribute pts into it.

Really funny dude, you should try and get work as a comedian...
Anyway, to answer Azgalon's question I use either Necro(Plague Touch, Rigor Mortis etc.) or Ritualist(Guided Weapon, Brutal Weapon etc. Although Guided weapon was heavily bugged during the weekend) as secondary to make sure I always hit, a Zealous weapon to maintain high energy at all times and Temple Strike to make my primary prey(casters) helpless.
Of course there are still people that kill me(nothing is perfect), but the vast majority of people I fight go down in under 10 seconds.

Azgalon
24-01-2006, 19:18
Anyway, to answer Azgalon's question I use either Necro(Plague Touch, Rigor Mortis etc.) or Ritualist(Guided Weapon, Brutal Weapon etc. Although Guided weapon was heavily bugged during the weekend) as secondary to make sure I always hit, a Zealous weapon to maintain high energy at all times and Temple Strike to make my primary prey(casters) helpless.
Of course there are still people that kill me(nothing is perfect), but the vast majority of people I fight go down in under 10 seconds.

Very nice!

Frizzy
24-01-2006, 20:02
Sorry but spiteful is useless in PvP. It does what like 25 AOE damage per action, whoopdie do, for 15 energy might i add. Assassins are as easily countered as IWAY, blind or anything anti melee will work. No rits are not "GGed" by AOE damage. Ritualists have alot more useful skills then just ones related around spirits. Those channeling magic skills do insane damage, plus weapons are a great addition to any team. I won't consider an assassin deadly until i see one based around it's hexes and other spells, not the melee aspect. As far as i can see A/W is the new W/Mo.

Suppemand
24-01-2006, 22:22
As far as i can see A/W is the new W/Mo.

That would actually be nice, it would make our targets less aware of the danger, and thats when the assasin is so wonderful.

Spiteful is actually pretty powerful. Does 37 damage per action at 16 curses. But you are right that it ain't that fantastic in the arena.

Zero RoGuE
25-01-2006, 00:53
That would actually be nice, it would make our targets less aware of the danger, and thats when the assasin is so wonderful.

Spiteful is actually pretty powerful. Does 37 damage per action at 16 curses. But you are right that it ain't that fantastic in the arena.
actualy, no....Ive been working with the assasin for a few days now(you know what days i mean) and ive found that it will probaly be A/Mo. Why? three words Mark of Protection. basicaly cast it then tele into a heck load of enemies, do your thing then tele out just as the mark begins to fade. Ive been working on an A/Mo that is becomeing really annoying... in fact in most random matches hes the last to die..

Lefaras
25-01-2006, 03:15
Sorry but spiteful is useless in PvP. It does what like 25 AOE damage per action, whoopdie do, for 15 energy might i add. Assassins are as easily countered as IWAY, blind or anything anti melee will work. No rits are not "GGed" by AOE damage. Ritualists have alot more useful skills then just ones related around spirits. Those channeling magic skills do insane damage, plus weapons are a great addition to any team. I won't consider an assassin deadly until i see one based around it's hexes and other spells, not the melee aspect. As far as i can see A/W is the new W/Mo.

Well, at least A/w looks better than a W/mo :p

However, unlike a w/mo, a a/w is extremely weak if played wrongly. Hence, most prob we will see a lot of A/w running ard and quickly died down as time go by.:fortuneteller:

Urda
25-01-2006, 14:06
I didnt play Assasin this weekend. I played Ritualist and was pissed how fast Templestrike often killed me. I was was in need of an anti-melee-skill : "Vengeful Was Khanei" was great. 4/5 Assasins killed themselves in seconds. Seems they arent smarter than frenzy-spitefullspirit-W/mos...

Suppemand
25-01-2006, 17:34
actualy, no....

You don't think people underestimating assasins is a good thing? IMHO it is

CHIPS
25-01-2006, 20:40
Well, out of the prebuild characters, the assasin/warrior was the worst character. I can hardly win 40% of the matches with him. There are 10 thousand ways to counter melee, and he is too stright toward.

I have a lot more luck with the elementalist/assasin. After changing the skills around a bit, I play it the way it was meant to be played: Hit and Run. I teleport in, do my "melee" nukes, and then teleport out. I win a lot more with him.

However, the best of all was the ranger/assasin. With her high expertise, she can use assasin attack skills almost non-stop. And she can cause conditions like no tomorrow. With her, I do not kill my target. I leave once I finish my combo on the target, by which time the target will have bleeding, poison, and deep wound all together. It does not benefit me to keep hitting this target anymore, since now the target is lossing massive health over time. So I would switch to another target, and apply the same combo. The enemies usually dies one by one.

There is no class that is invincible. Hence, assasins are not invincible. However, they are not easy to kill neither. Remember, assasins cannot tank as well as warriors do. But as a benifit, assasins armor have 70 armor, 4 energy regen, with no defects. With so much energy, assasins do not need to rely on adrenline skills. They can use, pretty much, all mage class skills to fit their play style.

The key is, do not be stright forward with assasins. Be creative, abuse your energy regen and higher than mage armor. :cool:

Bickety Bam
25-01-2006, 23:30
I agree with the above. R/A is very powerful. I went conditions as well - used apply poison and then jagged strike/cripple and then the dual attack to cause the deep wound and more bleeding. Then either leave and attack another target or if a monk take them down as fast as possible before they can remove the conditions.