View Full Version : Ritualist in PvE
Deadly Hawkeye
23-01-2006, 13:35
I was playing Rt (healer, and some spirit spamming one) in most of the weekend, I notice for Rt to be efficient they really need to stay close to the spirits. In PvE, most of the time we will be running around, which means it will be hard for Rt to be efficient as the spirits take too long to recharge. I wonder if you guys think of this as a problem? I think it might be more useful if the spirits can follow the Ritualist!
casserole
23-01-2006, 14:25
Rt lays down a group of spirits, then a puller draws the aggro into the spirits' AoE (for lack of a better term).
This seems like it would work just like traps do now, only the puller can see the spirits and does not have to be as precise with the pull. I think this could work very very well as long as the group is patient and works as a team, but that is sometimes asking too much.
Deadly Hawkeye
23-01-2006, 14:38
Rt lays down a group of spirits, then a puller draws the aggro into the spirits' AoE (for lack of a better term).
This seems like it would work just like traps do now, only the puller can see the spirits and does not have to be as precise with the pull. I think this could work very very well as long as the group is patient and works as a team, but that is sometimes asking too much.
Yep, I agree. Most people love rushing, not many will actually like luring. So if the spirits don't move, I think it will be a bit hard for Ritualist to do PvE.
casserole
23-01-2006, 14:58
I often asked teammates in the CA's to stay close to our Rt's spirits and make the other team come to us. I can't understand why someone who knows how the spirits work would just run up to an opposing Rt with several spirits already cast. If someone doesn't understand spirits, then I have to give them a free pass....for now. And people are so impatient that even if the other team is trying to do the same thing, someone *cough* a whammo *coughcough* will eventually rush our group. :wink:
Erasculio
23-01-2006, 15:51
Keep in mind that not all Ritualist builds rely on spirits, and that not all missions require you to run from one place to the next, especially not so fast to don't allow a Ritualist to cast some spirits.
Example: Orozar quest, in Sorrow's Furnace. There's a moment in which you need to protect Orozar - spirits would be perfect for that. But even later, when Orozar is running around and only stops to fight the bigger groups of enemies, it takes so long to kill said big groups that a Ritualist would have more than enough time to summon some spirits. Keep in mind that many spirit summons spells doesn't take more to be casted than Animate Bone Horror, and most take less than Meteor Shower - still both of those are used in the middle of the fight, not only after or before it.
What I do think is that builds such as the Pre Made Rit/Mesmer won't be as common, since it relies too much on spirits.
Erasculio
Deadly Hawkeye
23-01-2006, 16:20
Keep in mind that not all Ritualist builds rely on spirits, and that not all missions require you to run from one place to the next, especially not so fast to don't allow a Ritualist to cast some spirits.
Example: Orozar quest, in Sorrow's Furnace. There's a moment in which you need to protect Orozar - spirits would be perfect for that. But even later, when Orozar is running around and only stops to fight the bigger groups of enemies, it takes so long to kill said big groups that a Ritualist would have more than enough time to summon some spirits. Keep in mind that many spirit summons spells doesn't take more to be casted than Animate Bone Horror, and most take less than Meteor Shower - still both of those are used in the middle of the fight, not only after or before it.
What I do think is that builds such as the Pre Made Rit/Mesmer won't be as common, since it relies too much on spirits.
Erasculio
I have looked at all/most Ritualist skills, most of its spells need to be close to be spirits in order to become effective, even the direction spells (channeling) will only do good dmg if it has spirits near it. The range of near is not really that big (smaller than aggro circle), in PvE, it is rarely that we will stay in one spot for more than 30secs (even monks and casters). Therefore I don't think Ritualist will be able to build spirits to every spots they move. Anyway, why can't they make the spirits follow the Ritualist? I actually really want that to happen (I know it might be a bit overpower)!
Teufel Eldritch
23-01-2006, 21:53
Mebbe among regular players Rit spirits wont be effective but any team that uses strategy, waits for it's casters, doesn't rush rush rush rush can use a summoning Rit. Ppl only zip thru missions because they lack the imagination to play as a team. Instead they go go go never thinking tactically, never thinking about strategy. Rits will rock the FoW. I am of the opinon that teamplayers will have no issue with Rits. Only those with ADD will have problems.
I can already see te following in THK;
"GL 2 Rt for mission"
Mebbe among regular players Rit spirits wont be effective but any team that uses strategy, waits for it's casters, doesn't rush rush rush rush can use a summoning Rit. Ppl only zip thru missions because they lack the imagination to play as a team. Instead they go go go never thinking tactically, never thinking about strategy. Rits will rock the FoW. I am of the opinon that teamplayers will have no issue with Rits. Only those with ADD will have problems.
So true, and why I'm looking forward to recreating my Ritualist in the PvE world. My mesmer Doyle ends up in fewer PUGs than my other chars, but the ones she ends up in are usually better. I expect my ritualist to have a similar experience; I don't mind waiting an few extra minutes for a group since I can usually expect a better outcome. :fortuneteller:
Deadly Hawkeye
24-01-2006, 14:07
It seems that people that like mesmer like ritualist too! Maybe it is a thinking class, you need to know what you are doing to use it properly! I am looking forward to play Ritualist in PvE!
WhiteZombie
24-01-2006, 15:54
theyd make good secondaries as well. one i can think of is a minion master with death nova and signet of creation for some awesome spike damage :P
Deadly Hawkeye
24-01-2006, 18:07
theyd make good secondaries as well. one i can think of is a minion master with death nova and signet of creation for some awesome spike damage :P
Yea, Weapon spells are really nice! They can't be remove at the moment as far as I know!
Erasculio
24-01-2006, 18:52
Yea, Weapon spells are really nice! They can't be remove at the moment as far as I know!
I think you're right, currently there's no way to get rid of them...But I doubt that would happen once Factions is released. The Assassin has one skill related to spirits, I wouldn't be surprised if the other classes get one too.
(I would be particularly happy with the return of the Unnatural Signet, this time a 2 seconds casting time with 60 seconds cooldown signet that killed a single spirit, for example.)
Erasculio
Hmm, i've been wondering, since the recharge time on the ritualist spirit skills are so long, would this make them the least prefereable class in PvE?
I mean, sure they are an awsome help in combat... but having to wait for like, 1-2 minutes before moving on to the next mob might get tiresome after a while.
Just a thought.
Deadly Hawkeye
28-01-2006, 18:41
Hmm, i've been wondering, since the recharge time on the ritualist spirit skills are so long, would this make them the least prefereable class in PvE?
I mean, sure they are an awsome help in combat... but having to wait for like, 1-2 minutes before moving on to the next mob might get tiresome after a while.
Just a thought.
Check out this thread http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=383360
I thought of it as well, but I will still give Ritualist a try in PvE once factions come out!
aeonbahamutzero
28-01-2006, 18:47
there are various skills that can help the recharge rates of spirits. one being ritual lord which shorts it by 63% max. then there's soul twisting which kind of allows you to bring your sprits with you on the go. plus there's the old skill recharge options like serpents quickness and quickening zephyr.
Ace of Spades
29-01-2006, 04:25
theyd make good secondaries as well. one i can think of is a minion master with death nova and signet of creation for some awesome spike damage :P
Thats exactly what i thought =P
http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=383295
Ritualists are pretty good damage dealers, and could be quite destructive and self-reliant with just one spirit by their side, this way, at the start of every battle, a ritualist casts one spirit and therefore has a health reservoir, then when the team moves on, the Ritualist just creates another spirit in the new battlefield.
Here are some non-spirit-related skills:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/Vashekos/AncestorsRage.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/Vashekos/CruelWasDaoshen.jpg
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/Vashekos/SoothingMemories.jpg
Let's say you're a Ritualist with only 1 binding ritual, but your team needs this certain spirit frequently...Here's a good skill to deal damage and yet heal the spirit:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/Vashekos/SpiritBoonStrike.jpg
Like that one, there's lots of skills that benifit the spirits and deal damage and heal allies. My point is that even if a Ritualist camps, they should be able to leave their spirits and start a new camp at a new battle.
and therefore has a health reservoir
By health reservoir (spike-healing), I mean skills like these:
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/Vashekos/FeastOfSouls.jpg
Say you have a Ritualist that has 5 spirits on the field, use this skill and all allies are healed for up to 450 points (depending on attribute level)! *at a sacrifice of the spirits of course, but this would be a worthy sacrifice if it's a mission and you will not be returning or using these specific immobile spirits again, a good way to heal after a battle, I'd say*
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d159/Vashekos/SpiritToFlesh.jpg
This is the same as Feast Of Souls except it'd be best during a battle...
QuixotesGhost
29-01-2006, 07:40
Hmm, i've been wondering, since the recharge time on the ritualist spirit skills are so long, would this make them the least prefereable class in PvE?
I mean, sure they are an awsome help in combat... but having to wait for like, 1-2 minutes before moving on to the next mob might get tiresome after a while.
Just a thought.
Meteor Shower has a 60 second recharge and it's the bread and butter of most PvE Elementalists.
Personally I think Ritualists will be PvEs new golden boy considering the mass AoE effect of a lot of thier skills.
Deadly Hawkeye
29-01-2006, 10:42
Meteor Shower has a 60 second recharge and it's the bread and butter of most PvE Elementalists.
Personally I think Ritualists will be PvEs new golden boy considering the mass AoE effect of a lot of thier skills.
However, Elementalist have greater mobility than Ritualist because to get the full bonus from Ritualist skills, they need to stay nearby to its spirit!
but having to wait for like, 1-2 minutes before moving onto the next mob
An exaguration, sorry. Spirits only cost about 5 seconds to make, and they don't need to die before a Ritualist can leave them; they won't hold teams back, it just means that Ritualist need to prepare longer at the start of battles.
Erasculio
29-01-2006, 18:32
However, Elementalist have greater mobility than Ritualist because to get the full bonus from Ritualist skills, they need to stay nearby to its spirit!
The Ritualist has 72 skills, of which only 16 are Binding Rituals (skills that summon spirits), and there's Anguished Was Lingwah. So while they have other 24 skills that are changed by spirits, to say that the Ritualists are going to be useless because they lack mobility is the same thing, IMO, as saying a Warrior can't use any energy skill since they have less energy than everyone else.
Erasculio
Deadly Hawkeye
29-01-2006, 21:02
The Ritualist has 72 skills, of which only 16 are Binding Rituals (skills that summon spirits), and there's Anguished Was Lingwah. So while they have other 24 skills that are changed by spirits, to say that the Ritualists are going to be useless because they lack mobility is the same thing, IMO, as saying a Warrior can't use any energy skill since they have less energy than everyone else.
Erasculio
I am not saying they are useless. I actually think they are powerful. For example Mend Body and Soul, if u are near more spirits, u can get rid of more conditions, this is what I mean by more efficient when you are near spirit.
What spells does a ritualist have besides Spirits?
Some weapon spells and Dao Shen, can someone tell me of some more?
If there is not much more, I sadly must agree to the OP.
aeonbahamutzero
30-01-2006, 00:21
i think they can be excellent nukers combined with some of the spirits. look at the whole channeling attribute line. there are some crazy crazy spells in there. imagine getting 8 Rts together, everyone using cruel was daoshen and dropping it all at the same time.
See my topic about Ritual Lord. Since you can cast Rituals so damn often, you won't have a great handicap.
What spells does a ritualist have besides Spirits?
Ok, Here is the list of all the spells that have no relation to spirits (elites are represented by asterisks):
Ancestor's Rage (Channeling)
Channeled Strike (Channeling)
Cruel Was Daoshen (Channeling)
*Grasping was Kuurong* (Channeling)
Nightmare Weapon (Channeling)
*Spirit Channeling* (Channeling) [Ignore the skill's name, it doesn't involve spirits]
Spirit Rift (Channeling)
Splinter Weapon (Channeling)
Wailing Weapon (Channeling)
Binding Chains (Communing)
Brutal Weapon (Communing)
*Defiant Was Xinrae* (Communing)
Dulled Weapon (Communing)
Guided Weapon (Communing)
Mighty Was Vorizon (Communing)
Vital Weapon (Communing)
*Weapon of Quickening* (Communing)
Blind Was Mingson (Restoration)
Flesh of my Flesh (Restoration)
Generous was Tsungrai (Restoration)
Lively was Naomei (Restoration)
Protective Was Kaolai (Restoration)
Resilient Was Xiko (Restoration)
Resilient Weapon (Restoration)
Soothing Memories (Restoration)
*Tranquil Was Tanasen* (Restoration)
Vengeful Was Khanhei (Restoration)
Vengeful Weapon (Restoration)
Weapon of Shadow (Restoration)
Weapon of Warding (Restoration)
Wielder's Boon (Restoration)
*Attuned Was Songkai* (Spawning)
Surprised? I was, I had no idea that they were so many skills for Ritualists that didn't have anything to do with spirits. It's 32 skills in all...
Therefore, since they're 72 Ritualist skills (currently);
44.4% of all Ritualist skills do not have anything to do with Spirits, that's almost half!
aeonbahamutzero
30-01-2006, 04:54
spirit to flesh is an excellent way of destroying important spirits in pvp matches as well too (i know this thread is about pve but possibly there will be Rt profession monsters throwing out their own spirits)
ritualists have a whole atribute set addicted to spirits but i dont think that its so usefull to use it in pve:when you casted nearly2 the battle is over and the group moves to the next one,at the other hand it coud be usefull in missions like thirsty river or while you do bonus in duneswhile the spirits guard the ghost.
Maybe a buffer woud be cool.
cant say one of them but like upping the rest of the team like the beta barrager build.
no1 can tell the future of the ritualist....:fortuneteller:
Erasculio
30-01-2006, 12:51
Therefore, since they're 72 Ritualist skills (currently);
44.4% of all Ritualist skills do not have anything to do with Spirits, that's almost half!
I had already done part of this math (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=383818), but it's good to see what are the exact skills that do not use spirits. Do you mind if I add your list to my topic, mentioning you was the one who compiled it (of course)? I'm hoping to make a mini guide about Ritualists, and this would be the beginning of it.
Erasculio
Erasculio
30-01-2006, 12:53
no1 can tell the future of the ritualist....:fortuneteller:
I can tell the future of this topic, at least: it's going to be merged with one (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=384087) or the other (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=383360) topics we have about exactly this same subject.
Erasculio :fortuneteller:
TBMarauder
30-01-2006, 16:35
Damn, you're so perceptive, Erasculio! :P
I can tell the future of this topic, at least: it's going to be merged with one (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=384087) or the other (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=383360) topics we have about exactly this same subject.
Erasculio :fortuneteller:
Wow youre good :fortuneteller:
i started a topic and before ni knew it i was merged :tongue:
One thing that Rt's may be required for is...anti-ritualists! Assuming that new PvE will include enemies with spirits/minions etc., a Rt could prove a useful ally when it comes to smashing up the enemies spirits before they can do anything nasty...
I had already done part of this math (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=383818), but it's good to see what are the exact skills that do not use spirits. Do you mind if I add your list to my topic, mentioning you was the one who compiled it (of course)? I'm hoping to make a mini guide about Ritualists, and this would be the beginning of it.
Erasculio
No problem, you can use it if you credit it to this thread. With my list, finding non-spirit-builds for Ritualists should be easier.
If it helps the actual percentage was 44.4444444...reoccuring. :grin:
Sorry I didnt mean to copy you, my origianl intention was just the list, but I was so surprised at how many skills they were, I had to 'add' on the results.
Damn, you're so perceptive, Erasculio! :P
per·cep·tive
adj.
1. Having the ability to perceive; keen in discernment.
2. Marked by discernment and understanding; sensitive.
:grin: Erasculio the Discernful ! :grin:
*sorry had to do it*
I think Ritualists will definitely have a unique place in the party. The major downside to Ritualists is that they need a bit more time than other professions to set things up (about the same time as a trapper ranger), but once they do, they can be very versatile. However, I think they may some trouble finding a team on timed missions (Thirsty River, anyone?), especially because so many people panic and rushrushrush on seeing a timer.
I think Ritualists will definitely have a unique place in the party. The major downside to Ritualists is that they need a bit more time than other professions to set things up (about the same time as a trapper ranger), but once they do, they can be very versatile. However, I think they may some trouble finding a team on timed missions (Thirsty River, anyone?), especially because so many people panic and rushrushrush on seeing a timer.
Thank you!! C'mon people, this is exactly what I've been trying to say! Ritualist won't hold teams back, they'll just take longer to set up and be of no use in small battles (and this is ONLY if they're based on spirits!).
Hi Kjentei, I know now the PERCENTAGE of skills that are not related to spirits.
But how many of the remaining spells can be used to kill a mob?
There is the res spell flesh of my flesh, there are weapon buffs, and then there is DAO SHEN - the only damage spells I know so far. All others are buffs and healing AFAIK.
Necros have some vampiric gazes and stuff, but I wonder how many means of dealing damage the Ritualist will have? How limited are they in this regard?
Would the ritualist in a fast moving PvE party not be more like a supporter? How would this work out with a NPC group?
Can someone tell me of some spells that actually can be used to kill a monster?
Generous was Tsungrai (Restoration)
Lively was Naomei (Restoration)
Protective Was Kaolai (Restoration)
Resilient Was Xiko (Restoration)
---> I have no clue what they do. They sound like monk spells.
Is the ritualist a mix of Spirit-Fighter and Healer then?
aeonbahamutzero
31-01-2006, 08:14
Can someone tell me of some spells that actually can be used to kill a monster?
you're kidding me right? here's a few nice channeling spells:
Ancestor's Rage
All foes adjacent to target ally are struck for 10-82 lightning damage.
Channeled Strike
Target foe is struck for 5-77 lightning damage. That foe takes an additional 5-29 lightning damage if you are holding an item.
Cruel was Daoshen
Hold Daoshen's ashes for up to 15-51 seconds. When you drop his ashes, all nearby foes are struck for 40-112 lightning damage.
Spirit Boon Strike
Target foe is struck for 10-82 lightning damage, and all spirits near you gain 10-82 Health.
Spirit Burn
Target foe is struck for 5-41 lightning damage. If any spirits are in the area around you, spirit Burn deals +5-27 damage.
Spirit Rift
Open a spirit Rift at target foe's location. After 3 seconds, all adjacent foes are struck for 10-94 lightning damage.
Here's another amazing spike spell from the spawning power attribute:
Rupture Soul
Target allied spirit is destroyed. All nearby enemies are struck for 50-122 lightning damage and become blinded for 3-10 seconds..
i think Rt's have the amazing ability to become the next spiking class. granted it's all lighting damage but if you use a few of these spells in addition to spirits... someones going to get hurt real bad. imagine using ancestors rage on your about to expire destruction spirit then casting spirit rift on your foe and as your destruction spirit is about to expire cast rupture soul. that's a few hundred damage right there.
per·cep·tive
adj.
1. Having the ability to perceive; keen in discernment.
2. Marked by discernment and understanding; sensitive.
:grin: Erasculio the Discernful ! :grin:
*sorry had to do it*
I think that's a Mursaat boss somewhere in Ring of Fire -- spawns very rarely...
:wink:
Erasculio
31-01-2006, 20:59
:grin: Erasculio the Discernful ! :grin:
*sorry had to do it*
Elite Skill: Major Blushing :embarassed:
Thanks, I'll add your list to the previous topic, and to any guide I make in the future :smiley:
Erasculio
Would the ritualist in a fast moving PvE party not be more like a supporter? How would this work out with a NPC group?
Can someone tell me of some spells that actually can be used to kill a monster?
Generous was Tsungrai (Restoration)
Lively was Naomei (Restoration)
Protective Was Kaolai (Restoration)
Resilient Was Xiko (Restoration)
Ahhh, good question.
You are actually right in saying the Ritualist is a good support character, as they're healing is over multiple allies, but it less.
Generous was Tsungrai is basically a skill that can be used to give yourself more health (making yourself harder to kill) or it could be used as a quicker heal (if dropped straight away/as soon as possible). This skill is rather efficient because the caster can choose when to drop the ashes (therefore stop being about 25% harder to kill), and recieve a heal.
Lively was Naomei is the equilivent of a PvE Resurrection Orb. (there is no such thing, it's a representation)
Protective was Kaolai is similar to Divine Intervention.
Resilient was Xiko is similar to Melandru's Resilience*.
These specific skills aren't great for dealing damage, but lots of the Channeling Magic (another attribute) and some Spawning Power and Communing skills are good at dealing damage as well. These specific skills (and the other ones with names like "*oriental name* was *adjective*") means the caster has to hold ashes (carriable object, meaning you cannot melee attack and carry it) for as long as they strategically want until the maximum time they can hold it ends, these skills do not currently have a type of skill type, but I think that should be edited and they should have their own skill type (to prevent confusion, as they are currently just called spells).
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