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The Experimentor
27-01-2006, 14:52
Here's a funny build I thought up: :wink:

Attributes:
13-15 Critical Strikes (12 + 1-3 (Rune))
16 Dagger Mastery (12 + 1 (Helm) + 3 (Superior Rune))
3 ? Anything else that fits. In fact, this is can be a pure Assassin build.

Notes:
13-15 Critical Strikes has you doing criticals at 13-15% of the time, roughly every 7 or 8 strikes.
16 Dagger Mastery means you double attack 32% of the time, roughly every 3 or 4 strikes.

Skills:
Critical Defenses
Locust's Fury
Frenzy (yes, the Warrior skill)

Result:
1. Frenzy has you attack 33% faster. Roughly, in the span of time you do 3 attacks, you do an extra 4th.
2. Locust's Fury raises your double attack rate to 52%, roughly half the time. With Frenzy, in the span of time you do 4 attacks, you do an extra 2, for a total of 6.
3. Frenzy has the downside of double damage, which is where Critical Defenses comes in. With max Critical Strikes, you have 45%+ chance to block, roughly 9 out of 20 or higher with runes. Given 6 attacks in the span of time you normally would do 4, you might have good enough chances to land that Critical Strike that refreshes it and extends it long enough to cover your onslaught.

Questions:
1. What exactly is the attack rate for daggers? This must be factored in.
2. Will it work? And not just "work", but "Is it effective?"

Weaknesses:
1. Frenzy. Assassins, even in the best armor, are nowhere near as tough as Warriors. The double-damage can kill the Assassin quite easily.
2. Attack-based. Pacifism, Empathy, etc., will stop or kill the build.
3. Chance-based defenses. The build's reliance on Critical Defenses straddles the fine line between it refreshing or ending- life or death for the build.

Strengths:
1. Frenzy. It's simple and low-costed, and is easily acquired in PvE.
2. FUN. A Hundred Blades, my (censor: behind or donkey)!!! :laugh:

"No battle plan ever survived contact with the enemy." - Dwight Eisenhower

What do you guys think? I just wish Factions would come out sooner so I could try it!!! :grin:

CHIPS
27-01-2006, 19:10
This will work well with some Necro curses and some ranger spirits, that is for sure. Just have to cancel the Frenzy when needed.

roguebanshee
27-01-2006, 23:46
Just have to cancel the Frenzy when needed.
Dash, Sprint or Viper's Defense would all be good for that purpose. With one of those and a Res Sig you still have 3 slots for Dagger Attacks (a Lead, Off & Dual combo) available.

SirBlack
28-01-2006, 00:44
Interesting idea, but I think Critical Defenses only blocks melee or bow attacks. You'd still be vulnerable to spells and taking double damage from them because of Frenzy.

meatloafman
28-01-2006, 01:37
if ur only gonna use frenzy from the warrior skill tree then u mays well use tigers fury from the ranger line...

Ragnarok-
28-01-2006, 02:12
IAS is capped at 33% IIRC.

Edit: Woot forum level xD

The Experimentor
28-01-2006, 04:03
IAS is capped at 33% IIRC.

Edit: Woot forum level xD

Correct, but Frenzy + Dagger Mastery double attacks gets around this.

Dagger Mastery does not raise the attack speed of a character, but provides a chance that a character performs an attack twice instead of once.

Samuel Barjan
28-01-2006, 05:58
Critical Eye puts up to a 8%[or so: can't remember] chance extra for you to hit criticals - you may want to consider it.
I actually made a build just like this during PvP Factions weekend. It works pretty well.

The Experimentor
28-01-2006, 15:46
Listed is 1-6%, probably 8% for Attribute above 12. You can also add it, but that's 4 skills for a single combo, so I worry if it's too much already. That means only 4 slots left for a chain plus a Resurrection Signet. That also means the build is going to be very dependent on Critical Defenses to protect the Assassin. :undecided:

GormWolfblade
28-01-2006, 16:53
Notes:
13-15 Critical Strikes has you doing criticals at 13-15% of the time, roughly every 7 or 8 strikes.


doesn't everyon have a chance to crit though? I thought that would mean it would be 13-15% + whatever the normal amount is. Which would be even better of course :laugh:

Kjentei
29-01-2006, 13:58
Are you sure those would be allowed to stack?

Ekrin
30-01-2006, 00:32
doesn't everyon have a chance to crit though? I thought that would mean it would be 13-15% + whatever the normal amount is. Which would be even better of course :laugh:
Something similar goes for the assassin as it has X as a base for double strike so it is X+32+20=X+52% wow thats a crap load of double strikes....and throw in a few crits aaaaand...wow.....

The Experimentor
30-01-2006, 07:13
Are you sure those would be allowed to stack?

Both Critical Eye and Locusts' Fury says "additional", so yes.

Or, if you're wondering about the increased attack speed, as I said, double-attacks is not inceased attack speed but simply an attack that strikes twice in one shot, so yes.

Or, you're referring to putting it all together. Why not? It would seem speed, multiple attacks and critical hits is what the Assassin is all about, at the great cost of fragility and reduced staying power. Unless ANet deliberately nerfs the Assassin, yes. And given that the PvP weekend showed good gameplay balance for the Assassin profession, I'm pretty certain that they would all be allowed to stack anyway, so yes. :smiley:


Hmmm... At this point, let's flesh things out:

Skills:
Critical Defenses
Critical Eye
Locusts' Fury
Frenzy
Resurrection Signet
3 slots left

Chance to Critical Hit:
13-15% (Critical Strikes) + 6-8% (Critical Eye, at CS 12+) + X (base) = 18%-23%+
Given X, that's roughly around 1 out of 5 strikes.

Chance to Double Attack:
32% (16 Dagger Mastery x 2%) + 20% (Locusts' Fury) + X (base) = 52%+
Given X, roughly a little more than 1 out of 2 strikes.

Assuming swords and dagger pairs have the same attack speed...

As said, in the span of time a sword or dagger fighter does 3 strikes, a Frenzied one does 4 strikes. But an Assassin with this build does at least 2 more strikes.

For comparison purposes, let's use the mean value of sword's (15-22) and daggers' (7-17) damage. Sword: 15+22/2= 18.5; Daggers: 7+17/2=12. We don't have to factor in Strength for the Warrior, as we're only comparing basic attacks, but to be fair we give the Warrior Frenzy as well.

Frenzied Warrior does 4 strikes. 4 x 18.5 = at least 74 damage

Frenzied Assassin does 6 strikes, at least 1 is a critical hit. (5 x 12) + (1 x 12 x 1.41 (for critical hit)) = at least 76.92 damage

Only a slight difference, I'm afraid. :undecided: Will it be worth it? Will it actually be better to focus on chain attacks instead?

And if we do pursue this, what do we fill the 3 remaining skill slots with? If a 3-step chain attack, what particular skills?

The Experimentor
30-01-2006, 09:18
I made a mistake. The build may work and may be able to deal lots of damage very fast. :rolleyes: :smiley:


Frenzied Assassin does 6 strikes, at least 1 is a critical hit. (5 x 12) + (1 x 12 x 1.41 (for critical hit)) = at least 76.92 damage

Only a slight difference, I'm afraid. :undecided: Will it be worth it? Will it actually be better to focus on chain attacks instead?

And if we do pursue this, what do we fill the 3 remaining skill slots with? If a 3-step chain attack, what particular skills?

The computation for the Assassin should be:
(5 x 12) + (1 x 17 x 1.41 (for critical hit)) = at least 83.97 damage

This is because critical hits do max damage + 41% (according to SonOfRah's computations).

Furthermore, we must contend with all the other attacks of the Assassin possibly doubling and/or critical hitting, whereas the Warrior can only do criticals and with a lesser chance to do so.

This leads us to the question of what chain attack to give this build, in addition to other tweaks. :cool:

Mashus Altorus
06-02-2006, 10:04
*Gasps at nerdyness of these people* i mean that would of taken ages plus be quiet about it if gaile gray looks at it your build will be nerfed! so lets be quiet. The urls have ears!:listen:




p.s the nerdyness thing was meant as a compliment :wink:



also i spelt nerdyness wrong


but dont even know if thats even a word!

Almas Darksoul
06-02-2006, 13:26
Consider combining with a smite monk at the back who has strength of honour on you. Or, of course, a ritualist spamming brutal weapon, but this would be less viable in group of sizes above 4 since there are often random enchantments going around (aegis etc.).