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ikillzu
28-01-2006, 03:23
I dont know about you but i think assasins will be like the new mesmer class in pve. All they do is spike damage which is completely useless in pve most of the time. Also by the time a sin finished off his combo his party would party have already probably killed that mob. Then while his lead spell recharges his completely useless..
Only in pvp i think will assasins shine due to amazing spiking capabilities...
I want to hear your opinion on this^^

teh Monkeys
28-01-2006, 10:44
The saddest thing of all is that there'll be about 1 million assassins running around in pve, the first 2 weeks of release.

Not sure how they'll fit in. They probably can't tank very well due to their horrible armor, and sub-par stances, so they probably won't replace the warrior tank.

They deal melee spike damage, and their regular non-skill damage is inferior to that of a warrior and a ranger. And both warrior and ranger dps sucks teh big one in pve, unless specced otherwise.

I think they'll turn into another ranger-ish class. There's millions of em, but nobody really needs or wants them, unless a specific situation calls for it.

Kjentei
28-01-2006, 11:43
Keep in mind, they're a lot of builds per class, and really, all of us haven't really seen any other builds than the A/W pre-set build. Assassins haven't really found their role in PvE yet, but I'm sure they'll have they're uses.

Rayne Frostbite
28-01-2006, 13:14
Stuck-up monks haven't stopped me from playing the game with henches for 3 times (God, I swear, sometimes it seems like they go stand in places like THK afk just to piss people off) and I see no reason why I shouldn't go through the new PvE content again - with my assassin and henches...

Fallen_62
29-01-2006, 15:32
I think that the Assassin with be a quite viable profession in PvE. I know I plan to play one as soon as they come out :D

Zingeri
29-01-2006, 16:24
I think that the Assassin with be a quite viable profession in PvE. I know I plan to play one as soon as they come out :DSo will everyone else. Assassins will be the equivilant of the W/Mo in Cantha.

(That's why I'm making a Ritualist. :smiley: )

Lefaras
29-01-2006, 17:50
So will everyone else. Assassins will be the equivilant of the W/Mo in Cantha.

(That's why I'm making a Ritualist. :smiley: )

I hope not....
But i think Assassin will be like ranger. Low popularity while rit will be like monk. Everyone will just spam: GLF Rit or monk :p

Zxanadu
29-01-2006, 20:23
I will make an assassin, but the secondry I'll have to feel out.
Necro or Mesmer seems to me like a good combo. But a assassin that uses an elem as second would be good also, especially once you get kinetic armor.
Really hard to say. Can't wait till we can play them w/ all the secondary professions in the training area in Cantha (like Chapter 1's pre-sear)

Hey, maybe it will be a pre-jade forest and sea. Then the cut-scene w/ show the jading of everything.

Hmmmm.....I might have stumbled upon something.

Sry to get off track.

I think assassins will be useful in PvE, w/ there spike damage of any squishies.
I think that there role will end up being a character that attacks healers and other caster alone, while the rest of the group goes after other targets - like warriors. It may end up a non team oriented character. Just my thoughts.

Longasc
29-01-2006, 21:32
It is very likely that we will see even more Assassin/Ritualists than Warrior/Monks - or well, Assassin/X combos.

I already thought of starting with a Necro in Cantha, this would also be something new for me! But at least I could rely on some more info than we have at the moment.

So far I do not really see that the Ritualist is a good healer type, they can resurrect, yes, but otherwise... I hope they do not gear half of Cantha towards Assassin groups so that they stand a chance...

Akisame Kiyoraba
29-01-2006, 23:30
I can actually see assassins having alot of potentials for pve, their normal attack with locust fury and an attack speed stance on gives them the most attacks in a short period of time, they have 4 pips of energy regen, and there are plenty of ways to work around armor, take a look at how long defensive rangers can stand. An A/Mo with Live vicariously and vigorous spirit stacked, with an evasive stance should be able to easily stand up to most mobs head-on, that aren't in UW or fissure, although i don't think the assassin is designed to do that. They should also make an excellent secondary for casters, since they have a load of skills that revolve around teleporting.

But Lefaras has a point, Assassins probably will end up like rangers, necros and mesmers: as one of the classes where your going to either have to hench, or make a group, in order to get anywhere in PvE.

Ekrin
29-01-2006, 23:42
I think that assassins will have a very good place in PvE. Sure they will not replace warriors as tanks because a tank is someone that can take alot of damage not deal alot of damage. But i do think that they will be very useful in PvE because spike damage IS good in PvE expesially in the later parts of the game. Assassins have a great potential to deal tons more damage than a warrior but the downside is that. unlike a warrior, the assassin can not take a lot of damage. With their shadow arts they can also become very good pullers. To me the assassin seems to be a melee ele in the meaning that it can spike for a ton of damage while it cannot take a lot of damage. But the assassin is not based of spells so the mesmer will be slightly, but definitally totally!, less effective versus it. The necro seems to be the bane of the assassin, at least it was in the beta. Just my opinion.

Kjentei
30-01-2006, 03:23
Everyone will just spam: GLF Rit or monk :p
Not exactly, 44.4% of Ritualist skills are non-spirit-related (as I proved the in Ritualist forum), so they'll be more than just spirit-spammer builds for Ritualists.


Assassins probably will end up like rangers, necros and mesmers: as one of the classes where your going to either have to hench, or make a group, in order to get anywhere in PvE.
All professions end up partying with others in PvE anyway, the only time they'd have to solo is at the start in Cantha's version of Pre-Searing.


I think that assassins will have a very good place in PvE. Sure they will not replace warriors as tanks because a tank is someone that can take alot of damage not deal alot of damage. But i do think that they will be very useful in PvE because spike damage IS good in PvE expesially in the later parts of the game. Assassins have a great potential to deal tons more damage than a warrior but the downside is that. unlike a warrior, the assassin can not take a lot of damage. With their shadow arts they can also become very good pullers.
I agree with you, Assassins could be great pullers and great runners.


The necro seems to be the bane of the assassin, at least it was in the beta. Just my opinion.
Yes, but Mesmers were also very effective against them as well...

Chronus24
30-01-2006, 04:33
Theorhetically of course, if Anet does thier job right (or rather in this case, flawlessly) then there should be no character class left out in the rain. PvE should be geared to effectivly handle all the classes (not all builds) if the devs truly wish to promote PvE. :sunny:

teh Monkeys
30-01-2006, 19:15
Theorhetically of course, if Anet does thier job right (or rather in this case, flawlessly) then there should be no character class left out in the rain. PvE should be geared to effectivly handle all the classes (not all builds) if the devs truly wish to promote PvE. :sunny:

Oh right, you mean like they did with mesmers and rangers?

I havn't seen any mesmers in pve for about 3 months.

Erasculio
30-01-2006, 20:54
Oh right, you mean like they did with mesmers and rangers?

But is that because the Rangers and Mesmers are useless, or because people think they are useless/don't know what they do?

I remember how someone said that his Mesmer got kicked from a new Tombs group because the leader said he didn't know what the Mesmers do, so they can't do anything usefull at all.

So...

Erasculio

Akisame Kiyoraba
30-01-2006, 22:18
Necros, rangers and mesmers are an absolute boon for PvE when played properly. They were designed to be hated targets in PvP, and great in pve at the same time. The main problem lies in the fact that no matter how much time passes by, nobody will know their potentials in a PvE environment, due to how old stereotypes hold, and how they are rarely given the chance to group in the first place.

Ekrin
30-01-2006, 23:17
Yes, but Mesmers were also very effective against them as well...
I dont like empathy i really dont :/

Zaxares
31-01-2006, 01:45
I foresee assassins in PvE ending up in one of two major roles:

1. Melee spiker. These will probably work in tandem with tank warriors to create a deadly combo. The tank goes in and holds aggro. Assassin comes in, melee spikes, shadow steps back to safety. Recharge, rinse and repeat. Assassin spikers will be the bane of PvE monk enemies. (Imagine Thirsty River... "Exp A/R priest killer for hire - 2k!!!")

2. Runners/Pullers. Assassins will no doubt make superb runners, particularly once they get Shadow Form. Under the right circumstances, they can make excellent pullers as well, luring enemies into ambushes and otherwise dislodging them from good defensive positions.

Kjentei
31-01-2006, 03:34
I dont like empathy i really dont :/

Hehe, not just Empathy!
I'm talking about Spirit Shackles (highly effective against Assassins as all of there skills require energy, not adrenaline, and they attack so much, it lasts a long time and recharges faster than its duration).
Spirit of Failure (more energy is gained from it because Assassins have faster attack rate).
Sympathetic Visage (so a mesmer can cast on an ally, or themselves, being attacked by an Assassin).
Clumsiness (this is obvious).

Now think of Sympathetic Visage+Spirit Shackles = Assassins loses 8 energy every time they attack for about 20 seconds, then for another 8 seconds, or longer if they're smart and changed targets, it's 5 energy lost per attack.

Kjentei
31-01-2006, 03:38
I foresee assassins in PvE ending up in one of two major roles:

1. Melee spiker. These will probably work in tandem with tank warriors to create a deadly combo. The tank goes in and holds aggro. Assassin comes in, melee spikes, shadow steps back to safety. Recharge, rinse and repeat. Assassin spikers will be the bane of PvE monk enemies. (Imagine Thirsty River... "Exp A/R priest killer for hire - 2k!!!")

2. Runners/Pullers. Assassins will no doubt make superb runners, particularly once they get Shadow Form. Under the right circumstances, they can make excellent pullers as well, luring enemies into ambushes and otherwise dislodging them from good defensive positions.

This is a GREAT prediction! I agree with everything here.

Kjentei
31-01-2006, 03:48
With mesmers, it tends to be because people don't tend to realize what role they actually do, not so much hate them or think they're useless.

When ever did Rangers come unpopular though?

Fenix Aurion
31-01-2006, 05:22
I think that assassins will become very popular in pve. Most people will be interested in trying them out. Maybe not so popular in pvp because they aren't that strong. They aren't very affective in team arenas or gvg battles. Assassins are just a weaker form of warriors. :tongue: Thats why I'm creating a W/A rather than A/W.

BLAHHH
31-01-2006, 11:35
When ever did Rangers come unpopular though?

It's not that they became unpopular at any one point, Ranger were just never that popular to begin with. I've never understood why myself, the average Ranger I come across in PUGs is a hundred times more useful and effective than the average of any other profession...


Anyhoo, I can see the Assassin being the new W/Mo - that is, everyone will be one (I'm predicting a lot of people in all-black armour running around with names taken from Ninja Gaiden), yet groups will never really want more than one at a time. Still, the obvious flooding aside, I see them as having their uses. I can see them being popular for condition spam, and if played right with careful shadowstepping I think they could make very very effective spikers - which are much underrated in PvE play it seems. Or if not as spikers, I can certainly see A/R's and A/W's making good sustained damage dealers. They will surely have a good use in PvE.

Ekrin
31-01-2006, 23:59
Hehe, not just Empathy!
I'm talking about Spirit Shackles (highly effective against Assassins as all of there skills require energy, not adrenaline, and they attack so much, it lasts a long time and recharges faster than its duration).
Spirit of Failure (more energy is gained from it because Assassins have faster attack rate).
Sympathetic Visage (so a mesmer can cast on an ally, or themselves, being attacked by an Assassin).
Clumsiness (this is obvious).

Now think of Sympathetic Visage+Spirit Shackles = Assassins loses 8 energy every time they attack for about 20 seconds, then for another 8 seconds, or longer if they're smart and changed targets, it's 5 energy lost per attack.
Dulled weapon (rit skill) owns em

Wynter Zera
01-02-2006, 03:07
I dont know about you but i think assasins will be like the new mesmer class in pve. All they do is spike damage which is completely useless in pve most of the time.
Another person who doesn't understand Mesmers...*sigh*

Kjentei
01-02-2006, 09:01
Dulled weapon (rit skill) owns em

Why do you keep arguing/quoting me when you have no point?; you're just agreeing with me.

Ekrin
01-02-2006, 20:11
Why do you keep arguing/quoting me when you have no point?; you're just agreeing with me.
Just adding on. Just because i quote you does not mean i am arguing.

Kjentei
05-02-2006, 01:47
Just adding on. Just because i quote you does not mean i am arguing.

Ok, my apologies, thanks for the add-on.

The Experimentor
05-02-2006, 05:36
I dont know about you but i think assasins will be like the new mesmer class in pve. All they do is spike damage which is completely useless in pve most of the time. Also by the time a sin finished off his combo his party would party have already probably killed that mob. Then while his lead spell recharges his completely useless..
Only in pvp i think will assasins shine due to amazing spiking capabilities...
I want to hear your opinion on this^^

Totally disagree.

An Assassin in PvE is going to own the monsters if played properly and skillfully.

1st of all, to say that "by the time he finishes his combo party already killed the mob" is a statement that sounds like it came from someone who didn't participate in the Beta, either as someone playing a 'sin or fighting a 'sin. The Assassin chain combos deal damage really hard and even faster. That's why many 'sins during the beta owned Warriors one-on-one- they could deal damage (and conditions) faster than the brute and raw swinging of most Warriors could.

2nd, "while his lead spell (or skill) recharges"- an Assassin can still be a decent melee fighter without his spikes. I admit he's way more fragile than a Warrior and on the toughness level of a Ranger and won't deal as much damage as the former, but given an early kill in a mob thanks to his chain, he's fighting one less guy and is more likely to survive- and will certainly last long enough to pull off the chain again, if he hasn't yet killed the mob outright already with his other tricks (example: after the chain combo, activate Locusts' Fury). Also, an Assassin does have some defensive tricks from the 'sin Skill trees, if not from his 2ndary profession.

I don't know how wanted Assassins are going to be in PvE PUG's, but I'm sure they'll be more welcome than mesmers, however unjust and undeserved that is for mesmers.



So will everyone else. Assassins will be the equivilant of the W/Mo in Cantha.

Assassins are more cerebral than Warriors, even if also in-your-face and hack-and-slash. They're more fragile and require more thought while playing, despite the damage they can do.

You statement is true to the extent of number of people of going to try the new class out, especially given its reputation and popularity.

But my prediction: given enough time, brainless, immature and, um, "unprofessional" (you know what kind of player I mean) will drop their Assassins out of frustration in favor of their W/Mo's. Their initial large numbers will not last. W/Mo's are popular among newbie players and unimaginative players (please note the distinction) because of their innate room for error- they survive well and can take horrendous amounts of damage. An Assassin simply cannot do that- and I doubt taking Monk as a secondary will help much.



It is very likely that we will see even more Assassin/Ritualists than Warrior/Monks - or well, Assassin/X combos.

I disagree kindly, sir. IMHO, I think Assassin/Ritualists are going to run into problems for people unless they make big adjustments to accomodate how their character works.

Assassins are innately a mobile class, moving fast, striking deep, killing quickly. They take the initiative and control the fight.

Ritualists are the opposite, immobile. This is because of their use of spirits, which is one of the main things of the class. Unless the mobs and monsters let the Ritualist plant his spirits in their midst without harrassment or attack (worse if the monsters in question have interrupts), the Ritualist will have to set up first then lure the monsters in.

An A/Rt will either have to forego Spirits (posible) or will plant them then run off to pull the mobs in. Tedious if you ask me, but maybe not for some people. Let's wait and see.



I think that assassins will have a very good place in PvE. Sure they will not replace warriors as tanks because a tank is someone that can take alot of damage not deal alot of damage. But i do think that they will be very useful in PvE because spike damage IS good in PvE expesially in the later parts of the game. Assassins have a great potential to deal tons more damage than a warrior but the downside is that. unlike a warrior, the assassin can not take a lot of damage. With their shadow arts they can also become very good pullers. To me the assassin seems to be a melee ele in the meaning that it can spike for a ton of damage while it cannot take a lot of damage. But the assassin is not based of spells so the mesmer will be slightly, but definitally totally!, less effective versus it. The necro seems to be the bane of the assassin, at least it was in the beta. Just my opinion.

Also, it's spike damage. It's a big explosion of blades for a few second then rather low (though possibly fast) damage for a while.

But otherwise, I agree.

Except for the Mesmer part- what Mesmers throw at Warriors they can also effectively throw on Assassins. While Assassin owned Warriors during the PvP weekend, Necros and Mesmer owned Assassins.



I foresee assassins in PvE ending up in one of two major roles:

1. Melee spiker. These will probably work in tandem with tank warriors to create a deadly combo. The tank goes in and holds aggro. Assassin comes in, melee spikes, shadow steps back to safety. Recharge, rinse and repeat. Assassin spikers will be the bane of PvE monk enemies. (Imagine Thirsty River... "Exp A/R priest killer for hire - 2k!!!")

2. Runners/Pullers. Assassins will no doubt make superb runners, particularly once they get Shadow Form. Under the right circumstances, they can make excellent pullers as well, luring enemies into ambushes and otherwise dislodging them from good defensive positions.

1. Totally agree. I simply cannot wait to try this team-up with someone. :cool: Honestly also, no need to Shadow Step- just go around the side and sneak up from behind! It worked for me during the PvP and won me matches, even though my teammates didn't like it.

2. Pullers, not so sure, as they have to get close or at least hex someone first (unless equipped with some sort of ranged attack), but Shadow Arts should make movement easy. Runners, not so sure also as it depends how well the Assassin's mobility protects him, given his low defense.

alchemistsan
05-02-2006, 11:35
From what i see the assasin's skill, that they are melee damage dealer where their potential Shines when killing Boss.

Based on their total damage output after the combo have been sucessfully excuted is insane, so Assasins is a trump card when facing the boss from what i see so far. Ever try to kill a monk boss that takes you about 5 minutes without mesmer?

Ekrin
06-02-2006, 21:31
Ok, my apologies, thanks for the add-on.
No problem we all make them, expecially me ;)

Kjentei
07-02-2006, 09:56
I think that Assassins will be one of those classes that require certain type of skills to be successful, what I mean is:
Rangers, for example, do best with the "Elite;AttackSkill;AttackSkill;Preperation;Res:Trol lUnguent;Interrupt" build.

So my guess for Assassins might be: "Lead;Off-hand;Dual;Res;?;?;?;?."

.

Shimus DarkRaven
07-02-2006, 11:23
Maybe not as a primary, but I can see assassin being VERY deadly when comboed the right way with classes...A W/A, with shadow steps and things to remove himself when needbe to heal, half their skills compliment..

Just like I want to see a A/Me...A shutdown spike damage that can get in close? Wowies!

--The Shim :afro:

Goldfish God
07-02-2006, 12:30
I think Assassin will be used by cookie-thinkers for PvE runner secondaries (e.g. W/As), while more intelligent thinkers will probably make some awesome stuff with them. They can make very amusing anti-runners/chasers at least. They can teleport across terrain (teleport past a wall to attack something on the other side, teleport back to use the terrain as protection).

Rangers didn't used to be popular in the beginning since people didn't understand them (people just stuck them as basic interrupters and conditioners), then came all-trapper teams wiping UW, then all-pet teams etc etc. As soon as they got a basic cookie-build associated with them. (at least from my view of events).

Mesmers are very useful in the PvE tombs (especially at that dryder-ringed bottle-neck) since most of the mobs down there are spellcasters (interrupts, backfire, energy denial are very helpful vs these mobs). I still play my Mesmer (1st character made at game release, 20, ascended, completed PvE story except titan missions & Final Assualt) & there's still people who say "drop the mesmer" when they join a team I'm in.