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Eratimus
04-02-2006, 04:31
The Chronicles of Tyrian Palaeography

Seventh Edition

Research and Documentation
Eratimus Swiftarrow, GW Palaeographer
1st Fist of Light (http://www.1stfistoflight.com/)

View Previous Edition Discussions:
6th Edition (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=383777)
5th Edition (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=382438)
4th Edition - Never Officially Posted
3rd Edition (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=382038)
2nd Edition (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=381762)
The ORIGINAL first News release of the findings (http://www.gwonline.net/article.php?artid=93&action=part1)

How it started

Over the past year beginning during the beta of Guild Wars a few others and I conducted research to uncover the lost languages, runes, glyphs and scripts for GuildWars and the world of Tyria. This is still an ongoing project. For those who have yet to see what was originally found, I will give you the research thus far. We are still seeking images and other sightings of runes. This is the Chronicle of the on going research so you may delight yourself in the hidden lore that is GuildWars.

Glossary

glyph


Architecture.</em></u> A vertical groove, especially in a Doric column or frieze.
A symbolic figure that is usually engraved or incised.
A symbol, such as a stylized figure or arrow on a public sign, that imparts information nonverbally


hieroglyph


1: writing that resembles hieroglyphics (usually by being illegible)
2: a writing system using picture symbols; used in ancient Crytal Desert


rune


Any of the characters in several alphabets used by ancient&nbsp;Tyrian peoples
A similar character in another alphabet, sometimes believed to have magic powers.
A poem or incantation of mysterious significance, especially a magic charm.


Updates in Edition

1. Addition of Statues of Tyria descriptions and images
2. Collection of various murals through out Tyria.
3. True emblem of Kryta identified
4. Possible Zaishen emblems identified
5. Kryta emblem/crest ruled out
6. Added image of rune pillars in UW
7. Added section for "The Tomes"
8. Henchmen banner explained

How was the alphabet translated?

Tyrian Alphabet (http://img6.imageshack.us/my.php?image=orrianalphabet4xu.jpg) | Tyrian Rune Map (http://img287.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tyrianmap5co.jpg) | Translated Map (http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3334/tyriamaptranslated0gg.th.jpg)

I won't go over how I translated ad figured out all the runes and glyphs in the research, be will only concentrate on the Tyrian Alphabet itself as these findings is what got you started on this road.

The idea of an obscure runic language came to me when Banegrivm, Guild Leader of the 1st Fist of Light posted a &quot;strange map&quot; he had found a screen shot of that was on sign up north of the Wall. I took one look at it and realized that indeed they for the most part they were Runes. Not any obscurely created runes, but in fact resembled those used in Gothic, Fulthark, and Swedish-Norwegian runic alphabets, as the various I saw on the map included a mixture of all three. I did also find that the Devs may indeed have change a few, perhaps to make them unique.

The first thought that came to me was that they are using real world runes and the letters corresponding to them. At which point I began trying to translate the upper most set of runes which was believed to spell &quot;Tyria&quot;. In the end of that process after combining a mixture of real life runes and their letters, I came to realize that in fact the runes are NOT using the same letters as used in real life. That in fact, the image of the runes were used, but the devs. designated their own letters to each rune.

With this new insight, and the knowledge and of what the locations were representing, I soon was able to translate and document those areas, ending with a at least 3 groups translated. Those being Ascalon, Tyria, Kryta. You can say, Well ok, you think you know what an area is representing, then you assumed those runes were letters? Well I backed and continue to prove that the translations were correct because of cross-comparison.&nbsp; The "y" in Tyria uses the same "y' rune in Kryta. The rune for "a" is used all in the right places for all three of those groupings. This lead to the discovery of the letters A, S, C, L, O, N, T, Y, I, and K. Soon after I was able to decipher the south central set of runes where we see the Shiverpeaks. But, this was a mistake by me, as I originally thought that the first set is Shiver and the second set below is Peaks. This uncovered the letters, P, V, and H. I wondered why the words were separated. It was until I got a screen shot originally taken and submitted by "F" was I able to get a clearer written set of runes. The SW area by Linea and Androgial was mentioned to have been either the Ring of Fire or Fire Isle. After some close translating I was finally able translate and find the right runes for Ring of Fire, which revealed the letters G, F, and E.

After some close observations I soon uncovered that my translation of "Shiver Peaks" was wrong. In fact, the first line DID spell out the complete Shiverpeaks, and surprise to me, as again the Alphabet proved itself, I translated _ o_ntns. Hmm, I wondered what that could mean. Then, out of the blue a realization came that hit me like a freight train. OF Course that is what it is, it was "mountns" This spelling does not include the ai when referring to the correct spelling of mountains, but it did give some insight as it revealed the letters M, O, and U.

Soon after I began my translations of the set of runes in the South East. I originally translated the runes to Try_ _a_ Desert. This left me at a standstill as those missing letters I could not see clearly. It was not until &quot;Linitas&quot; mentioned that the first set could even be Crystal, did it hit me that he was right. I had miss translated the first letter as a T and not C. It was found that location was the Crystal Desert, which just now as I was updating this article as I have been making changes, an blurb from the last Gaile Gray interview was submitted to me.

"The Crystal Desert is a nexus of powerful mystical energies. For centuries entire cultures have made pilgrimages to the burning sands in search of spiritual atonement. Their bones litter the dunes, a testament to the dangers of this inhospitable environment. The only other evidence of their existence is the hollow, wind-torn buildings of their temporary civilizations."

The one location that had bewildered me for the longest time was that set of runes to the West. Drytchnath and Androgial had mentioned that it could be Majesty's Rest or Maguuma Jungle. It was not until I realized those central two letters of the first set of runes was uu and not a c or v, did it come to me that the first letter of the second group wa s a J. A letter that had eluded any sort of translating. This revealed it to be Maguuma Jungle and the letters J, and a new rune for M and G.

This completed the entire translation of the Map. It also completed the alphabet, save the translations for B, X, W, Q, and Z. I have come to see that map as a &quot;Rosetta Stone&quot; of sorts for this ancient runic language.

That brings up another point, WHERE did this language come from, is it perhaps from a past fallen Kingdom?

There were a few more sets of rune found that were quite original. The runes found on the road signs were not of this unknown Alphabet. We also located runes on 4 obelisks located in the "Talmark Wilderness" just west of "The Black Curtain"which after some discussion, were soon thought to be a zodiac of some kind. It was originally thought the screen shot was taken in the Maguuma Desert, but I soon confirmed the location to not be that far West, but to be just west of the Temple of Ages.

Tyrian Hieroglyph

We had also located what appear to be hieroglyphs on he walls of the Tomb of Primeval Kings which appear to be Egyptian, but were not able to get clear enough imaging to decipher them. These same hieroglyphs were recently found on the base of a Dragon Statue in the Crystal Desert.

I have also made efforts in the translations of the Primeval King Hieroglyphs found on the walls, on the base of a dragon statue in the Crystal Desert, and various other locations. It has come to me that the alphabet is very similar to the Egyptians, but certain symbols were modified to give variations between them to. I have uncovered some of the alphabet from these inscriptions and was able to partially translate a stone submitted by oGgaming Moderator Eolan, thank you. Right now the translations are jumbled and no words can be found from them, it is still a great start in uncovering the hidden lore of Tyria.

Eqyptian/Tyrian Hieroglyph Alphabet (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crystaldesertheiroglyphsalphab.jpg)

Eolen's Original (http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=heiroglyphscircled6qm.jpg)

Eolen's Translated (http://img310.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hieroglyphtranslation016mh.png):

It still needs some work, and they may not be using the Egyptian translations and just the image, but it is a start.

Runes and Glyph and other Symbols

The Common Runes

The runes have been dubbed &quot;Common&quot; Runes until its creators are discovered.

The Common Rune Alphabet (http://img439.imageshack.us/my.php?image=commonrunealphabet4qi.jpg) Common Rune Location Comparisons (http://img67.imageshack.us/my.php?image=acsttrunecomparisons4dg.jpg)

This rune set has been found in a number of different locations.

1. Banner found among Charr camps depicting what looks like some sort of fierce toothed creature which could refer to Charr, or their leader, or something they worthship. These runes are found along both edges.

2. Banner found near the entrance to the Ascalon Arena gate and in the Nolani Academy which depicts the runes along each side with what looks to be a figure with four wings in the center.

3. Four obelisks in the Talmark Wilderness display a number of these runes. It has been thought that perhaps the obelisks there could be a druid shrine, circle, or belongs to some ancient culture. It is thought that perhaps these obelisks could in fact be Rosetta stones for the alphabet itself, as they include runes that are not on any of the others such as the |69 and a number of others. It has been considered that these obelisks are indeed Druid relics or spires.
Druid Spires (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=druidspires3wj.jpg)

4. There are pillars in the Ruins of Surmia staging area with a women&rsquo;s face at the top and a single row of these runes down the center.

5. The statues in the staging area of the Tomb of Primeval Kings along each side of the entrance that have these runes at their base. Each statue has the same set of runes displayed.

6. These runes have also been found on pennanti seen in Bergen Hot Springs in the Kryta nation now.

7. While thought that it would not be found, these Common runes are ALSO found among the Zhaisen as small pennants. This shows that the Commons runes are not just on the mainland Tyria. Do we see them among the Battle Isle in the Random arena simply due to the close proximity to the mainland? Will we see these runes among the homeland of the Zaishen?

Why do we find the same runes through out different cultures. So far they are being used by the Charr, Kryta, Ascalon, the Orr who are found in the Tombs, and whom ever built the Talmark obelisks.

Could they all be sharing a common ancestor, or writing system for specific needs?

Ultimately, what situation would cause 6 different cultures/civilizations to use the same set of runes for what ever reason they are used?

I have attempted to try and cipher them into an alphabet, but so far no success. There does not seem to be any logical correlation between the use of runes depicting letters. Of course the runes could symbolize images or concepts. But you also find the same runes in separate orientations. All of them but one of the runes change orientation in specific locations.

It has been stated that like real life languages the inhabitants of the Talmark area could have adopted a similar language as the Charr. But, I am not sure if ArenaNet would have gone that far, if in fact they have gone as far as all this actually meaning anything, which we all hope it does. So you must wonder, if they are separate, yet adopted languages, what language does the Talmark belong to? If they are the same language, which points to being Charr, does this mean the Charr once were found in the western lands of Kryta? It has also been suggested that this could be an adopted language of the serpent creatures of legend, later adopted by the Charr and the Talmark inhabitants.

Others suggest that perhaps these runs for to words or ideals rather then being letters.

Another theory lies in the fact that the common runes are ofund in so many different locations. The theory is also based off of the specific locations. It would seem that the only explaination for such a wide spread use, aswell as the use in such ancient and connected locations as Druid spires and the Tomb of Primeval Kings is that in fact the glyph are a sybolization, writing, rune system, glyph or sort of connection with the Deity themselves.

Teleporter Runes
Ascension, Teleporter, and other Crystal Desert Glyph/Runes (http://img366.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cdascensionglyphs6gu.jpg)

It would seem that the transporters used to magically move from one transporter artifact to another have a ring of runes encircled which we believe to be the origin of the magic. It may seem as if they are a full set of runes all around, but in fact are 7 distinctly different runes, reversed at least 4 times as they encircle the portal area. These runes have yet to be seen anywhere else nor do they resemble any others.

Ascension Runes:

There are another set of 5 glyphs found on multiple pillars/towers/obelisks through out the Crystal Desert that give sight of magical properties. Excitingly so, 3 of these glyphs are actually found within the portal area one must travel to prior to your Ascension Mirror Self battle. You must step on the correct sequence of the three glyphs. We have yet to locate any other locations for the remaining 2 glyphs anywhere else but those pullers.

"The Wilds" bonus glyph

Glyph Image (http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unknownwildsrunes2mo.jpg)

There is a set of three glyphs found on three small stone pillars in the Wilds mission area. Each pillar has these same three glyphs. One depicts what looks like an image of a dragon, perhaps Glint or a Bone Dragon, or some other creature of legend. The origin of the other tree are unknown.

Another idea roots in the process of the Flameseeker Prophecies. While it is a long shot, the dragon glyph could refer to the prophecies seen by Glint, that the chosen are to gain use of the triangle, as it refers to the Eye of Janthir and the cross refering to the ascension these chosen must initate to later fulfill their destiny in this tale.

Eratimus
04-02-2006, 04:32
Diety Statue Plaques

Image (http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=deitystatuerplaque5vr.jpg)

Yet again we have more runes that are similar yet different from others we found. Plaques found before statues have runes similar to the Orrian, yet none are a match. The other quandary is, they too all are written exactly the same. Whether the &quot;hover text&quot; of Statue of Dwayna or for others are different, each and every plaque are written with the same exact runes in the say exact pattern, saying it says the same thing. Which either this means they all say something, but is something basic like Deity Statue, or the like, or again Arena Net simply did not have an intention to have them mean anything and thus make them all the same.

Ruined Temple of Balthazar Runes and Glyphs

Image (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=balthazartemplerunesandglyphs3.jpg)

There is found a Glyph depicting what is assumed to be the Eye of Janthir, the same eye one uses to gather the Chosen in the Divinity Coast mission. We also see various other eye symbols referring tot he same symbolism. Although you must note what looks to be&nbsp; four crescent moons with in the primary large eye Glyph. What th reference is, I do not know.

Elemental Glyph

On going research to uncover any runic meanings to the Elemental Glyphs<br />

Image (http://img230.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elementalglyphs0nn.jpg)

The Underworld Runes

Glyph and Pillars (http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5091/underworldrunes7co.jpg) | Image (http://img333.imageshack.us/img333/8176/underworldpillars1ox.jpg)

Found by a community member, a number of runes can be found on pillars in the Under World. These seem to be a little more complex then other set that are used by a number of different cultures on Tyria.

These pillars also included 3 glyphs. These could simply be enlarged runes that are a part of the other runes or could in fact be a separate usage more like Pictographs. We will have to see if there are anymore of these similar runes around. The glyphs seem to partly resemble an eye or a symbolism similar to it.

Explanation to Talmark spires

Druid Spires (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=druidspires3wj.jpg)

For the past year the origin of the tree turned to 4 spires in the Talmark Wilderness has baffled me. Many have suggested they originate from the Druids, other an ancient culture. I try not to make anything more then a theory until I have enough evidence to state otherwise. Well, after revisiting and exploring Henge of Denravi, I came upon the huge hollowed out dead tree that acts as a platform and possible old temple. The way it was built reflects a great deal of what was done by the spires in Talmark. As Denravi was inhabited by the druids up to a decade ago it would be logical to state that the tree platform/temple was guilt by these druids. With this knowledge in mind, taking into account the close proximity of the Talmark, the way the spires were built and the close travels of the druids themselves, I have come to the standpoint to identify these spires indeed as old Druid spires. Their use is still under speculation as well as the origin of the runes we find on them and else where in the world.

I see the possible use for the Druid spires as a place of worship and ritual as the roots of the tree/trees expand deep into Tyria making it ideal for close commune with Tyria and Melandru.

Merchant Guild Glyphs or old Druid runes?

Image (http://img66.imageshack.us/my.php?image=druidtradeglyphs6pb.jpg)

The four glyphs atop each other are found on the top of the merchant/crafting tents in Hendge of Denravi. You also see the symbol to the right that are found on the anvils all over Ascalon and Kryta. This brings an intriguing thought. There are two explanation for this. The glyphs found at Denravi could be old Druid runes that were adopted some how as the druids had occupied Denravi up until a decade ago. Another explanation is that those symbols are Trade guild emblems. In history trade guilds emblemized the craft they made, the objects they used and displayed them so people familiar with them would notice who they were and purchase their crafts. This is similar to a guarantee of quality for those who know the guild. This would make sense as you see them on the merchant tents, and you see the similar emblem I have to the right on the anvils. They would be to symbolize the guild the crafters represent.

Augury Rock Runes

Image (a href="http://img487.imageshack.us/my.php?image=auguryrockrunes4jl.jpg)

Thanks to Lord Melvin, found within the plattau where those pursuing ascension enter you can find a number of runes on the walls besides and above the different deity. You may notice that there are a few sets of them. Each set near the deity could in some way refer to the deity themselves. The image only shows two deity and the two sets in different order which may refer to specific words or glyph corresponsing to words. You may also notice the same snake or S looking symbol that is also used in Augury rock. Perhaps that symbol actually refers to the Forgotten?

Janthir Runes:

Image (http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=janthirglyph6vf.jpg)

I have identified two sets of runes associated with Janthir with the help of Lord Melvin.

1. Janthir Protection Circle runes can be found as the platform to which the Eye of Janthir can be located in the Divinity Coast mission. It would be logical to assume that since the warder must be cleansed prior to taking control of it that the circle of runes depict an enchantment that required to have been done prior to releasing it to the controller.

2. A part of the Eye of Janthir itself there is a ring of runes that float at the bottom and move along with it as it is transported.

3. Janthir Tablets: Hanging on a stone piller between the Eye of Janture circle and the Cleansing fountain you can find tablets of janthir. What they are suppose to represent, it is currently unknown.

Unidentified Glyph

Image (http://img62.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unknownglyphs0uw.jpg)

1. Found with in Mhenlo's clothing if you were to look &quot;through&quot; him from the back, you can see two strange things. On the left you will see a strange glyph that I have yet to see. On the right you will see the phrase, &quot;Baptiste said that&quot; which refers to the monk henchman.

Arena Glyph

Image (http://http://img71.imageshack.us/my.php?image=arenaglyph1ql.jpg)

Glyph have been found in the Koga Arena which is not found anywhere else.

Profession Runes

Image (http://img364.imageshack.us/my.php?image=enchantmentrunes6ek.jpg)

Notice that a number of them compare to the Tyrian alphabet in appearance, and some slightly. The runes for Assassin and Ritualist are not included until I am provide with such images.

Tyrian Heraldry

If we are collecting and translating all these runes and symbols we might as well as document the many nation and racial symbols to have in the archive.

Image[ (http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/2795/tyrianhealdry2ci.jpg)

Shining Blade: Note the difference between their Flag and Emblem pointed out by Eolen. There seems to be a wave like symbol below the blade of their emblem. Perhaps this resembles waves of a sea or ocean. Perhaps hails to the background of the person? The emblem you see is found on Evennia. Could she in fact originate from Cantha?

White Mantle: **SPOILER++ Noticing the White Mantle emblem is it just me or is it in fact a representation of the Mursaat? It would seem it was there before our eyes who their unseen gods were. We find they are the Mursaat. But who would recognize that the Mantle emblem reflects their connection with the Mursaat. How much control over the Mantle did the Mursaat truly have?

Kryta: The emblem of the Krytans and true seat of Lion's Arch is that of a lion. But, I have not located any images of the true Lion emblem.

Deldrimor: I have not been able to find what the Deldrimor emblem is. The closest I got was those from the banners used as signs.

Stone Summit: Seeking Images

Ascalon: The presumed emblem of Ascalon is the Sword and Shield crest we see on the back up Rurik, Ascalon Academy gate, flag in Battle Isle and Tomes. Although as we also see the same image on the cape of the Undead King of Kryta, Mad King Thom, this puts a twist in matters. Is this emblem actually the Guild it is thought that Aldeburn, Rurik and possibly King Thom are a part of? If not, what is the connection?

Image (http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4705/ascalonemblems0mq.jpg)

Orr: The only thing we know about the Orr in regards to their crest or emblems is the maple leaf image we find on &quot;Dacayed Orr Emblems&quot:

Elonian: We see a few banners near signs in zones that could reflect the emblem of either the Elonians or Margonites. Most of what we see are the remnance of them Margonites, this includes the ruined ships we see all over.

Margonite: See Elonian

Zaishen: There are two banners that could be the emblem or crest of the Zaishen. The more prominent blue one is the closest it would seem to what we should see as their crest.<br />

Charr: All we see for the Charr is the image of a growling creature which is presumed to be a Charr, or Charr leader.<br />

Ascalon and Kryta connection:

I mage (http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/5307/madkingthomcape0ya.jpg)

A Community member recently submited an image taken from Mad King Thom's cape, the undead King of Kryta that was seen during the last Halloween event. It is the SAME Sword and Shield emblem we see on Rurik and Aldeburns cape, on the different Tome such as near the fountain in Ascalon, and on the gate to the Ascalon Academy. What is the connection? Does the emblem trully refer to the Guild all three belong too? Could there be some ancestrial connection between Ascalon and Kryta?

Other Research:

Wing Crest

Image (http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/3045/wingcrestemblem9fr.jpg)

Once thought to be the emblem of Ascalon, we see the Wing emblem at many locations. It is still unknown what this banner really represents.

1. Shield of the Wing
2. Banner ouside of Ascalon Arena and Nonali Academy.
3. Banner and Platforms in the HoH.

We see this image everwhere. Its origin still has not bee decided on. Before I reliazed it was the same image in the HoH I had thought it was the crest of Asalon as it has been suggested their anmial is the Griffon. Some had said this is an image of a Lion with Wings, a Griffon, and others a Sphinx. But, the ultimate aspect that needs to be covered is what is its origin and why do we see it everwhere?

Balthazar Banner

Image (http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/7038/balthazarrepresentations0pz.jpg)

I have established witht he help of other community members that whatw as thought to be a Charr head on the banner that is bordered with Common runes is infact Balthazar. We see this same image on pillers in the Nonali Academy mission area, on the base of the fountain in Ascalon, compared with his Mural in Ascalon, you can see how it is him.

Statues around Tyria

Image (http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/6662/statues8kq.jpg)

Through out Tyria are a number of statues representing gods and different races.

The Tomes

Image (http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7641/tomes1wj.jpg)

We find many different tomes describing histories, ancient powers, and other lore of Tyria. All seem to be emblemized with the crest of Ascalon. What is it about all the Tome that share this common emblem?

Tome of Rubicon: Sorow's Furnace: The Tome of Rubicon is an ancient Dwarven artifact that is burried deep within Sorrow's Furnace. The Tome holds the true name of the Great Destroyer. Ages ago, the Great Dwarf hid the true name of the Great Destroyer in this Tome so that it may never be spoken, as such, no one would know about the true identity of the Great Destroyer.

In the quest Unspeakale, Unknowable, the Stone Summit seek to unearth this Tome and learn the true name of the Great Destroyer to use it for their nefarious purposes. High Priest Alkar enlists the aid of players in stopping them and burrying the Tome deep within the ruins of the Stone Jasilica.

Tome of the Forgotten: Ruins of Surmia: The Tome of the Fallen is a sacred tome that was placed in an ancient burial site for the soldiers who died defending the Great Northern Wall. In the Nolani Academy mission, players discover that Watchman Pramas removed it from its place following the commands of his superior. The bonus objective of that mission is to return the tome to its resting place, the Tome Pedestal, and help the Spirits of the Fallen roaming the burial site find peace.

Tome of ?:King's Watch: Historic text displayed on image:

Tome of ?:Gates of Kryta: No Info

The Henchman Banner

Image (http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5235/henchmenbanner8tf.jpg)

As we see everyone there is a banner representing the frou symbols of the original four henchman. This is why we only ever see four as the first four henchmen were a Figher, Healer, Mage, and Ranger. The banner does not change later to represent the additional Mesmer and Necro henchmen.

Tyrian Murals

Coming in 8th Edition

In Conclusion

I accept to the fact that none of that which we have uncovered, deciphered, or translated or anything of such similarities is in fact intentionally put in by ArenaNet. All that which we have done may be wall flowers or simple graphics to make it pretty. But, it is not part of mans desire to pursue that which has not been found and to test the ends of his mind in some of the most craziest of tasks? If it never comes to anything, we all at least exercised our minds.

If anyone locates anything regarding runes/glyphs that do not appear here, please email me at eratimus@gmail.com

Eratimus
04-02-2006, 04:58
Regarding the GW Planet vs Continents, do you see Tyria as being the Planet name or Continent? We know the new area is the Canthan Kingdom, nothing stating that it is actually another Continient. As far as we knew about the would we only knew the mainland as Tyria. I forsee that the planet itself is Tyria and none of the Continents are named. Does anyone have anything they wish to reflect otherwise?

Scutilla
04-02-2006, 06:18
Was with a guildmate doing a bunch of mission bonuses today, and spotted some of the stuff that's already in this.


The Underworld Runes

Glyph and Pillars (http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/5091/underworldrunes7co.jpg) | Image (http://img333.imageshack.us/img333/8176/underworldpillars1ox.jpg)

Found by a community member, a number of runes can be found on pillars in the Under World. These seem to be a little more complex then other set that are used by a number of different cultures on Tyria.

These pillars also included 3 glyphs. These could simply be enlarged runes that are a part of the other runes or could in fact be a separate usage more like Pictographs. We will have to see if there are anymore of these similar runes around. The glyphs seem to partly resemble an eye or a symbolism similar to it.
This eye glyph also appears on the Shrines of Mending in the D'Alessio Seaboard mission.


Arena Glyph

Image (http://http://img71.imageshack.us/my.php?image=arenaglyph1ql.jpg)

Glyph have been found in the Koga Arena which is not found anywhere else.
This rune also appears in the area near the Demogogue in the Aurora Glade bonus.


Janthir Runes:

Image (http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=janthirglyph6vf.jpg)

I have identified two sets of runes associated with Janthir with the help of Lord Melvin.

1. Janthir Protection Circle runes can be found as the platform to which the Eye of Janthir can be located in the Divinity Coast mission. It would be logical to assume that since the warder must be cleansed prior to taking control of it that the circle of runes depict an enchantment that required to have been done prior to releasing it to the controller.

2. A part of the Eye of Janthir itself there is a ring of runes that float at the bottom and move along with it as it is transported.

3. Janthir Tablets: Hanging on a stone piller between the Eye of Janture circle and the Cleansing fountain you can find tablets of janthir. What they are suppose to represent, it is currently unknown.
The stone pillars with the "Janthir Tablets" also appear in front of the graveyard at the end of the Sanctum Cay bonus.


Tome of the Forgotten: Ruins of Surmia: The Tome of the Fallen is a sacred tome that was placed in an ancient burial site for the soldiers who died defending the Great Northern Wall. In the Nolani Academy mission, players discover that Watchman Pramas removed it from its place following the commands of his superior. The bonus objective of that mission is to return the tome to its resting place, the Tome Pedestal, and help the Spirits of the Fallen roaming the burial site find peace.
This describes the Nolani Academy tome, not the Ruins of Surmia tome. I gave a description of the Monument of the Fallen (from the Ruins of Surmia) in one of my posts in the 6th Edition thread.


Regarding the GW Planet vs Continents, do you see Tyria as being the Planet name or Continent? We know the new area is the Canthan Kingdom, nothing stating that it is actually another Continient. As far as we knew about the would we only knew the mainland as Tyria. I forsee that the planet itself is Tyria and none of the Continents are named. Does anyone have anything they wish to reflect otherwise?
It's generally accepted that Tyria is the name for both the planet and the Chapter 1 continent, and Cantha is a seperate continent. Although there's probably lots of official sources confirming this, here's the first I found offhand, from the Guild Wars Faction FAQ on the official site (emphasis mine).


It is possible for a player to enjoy the contents of either game without purchasing the other. Players who have both games may have their characters travel back and forth at will between the continents of Tyria and Cantha.

Also, there are three nations in Cantha- the Canthans, whom are the merchants and Xunlai we've occasionally met in Tyria; the Kurzicks, artisans and crafters that live in petrified forests; and the Luxons, a sea-faring nation that now uses walking machines to travel the Jade Sea. The CVG article linked on the main page gives a bit of info on each nation.

Finally, regarding your reply to one of my posts in the 6th Edition thread:


The pennant which I als ohave in the image and the Piller are not int he same order, they are simply just using the Common Runes I have collected.
Actually, the two do have a string of 8 runes (except for the second-to-last rune which appears to be different) in common:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/Scutilla/GW%20SF/runes.jpg

Ekalb Senoj
04-02-2006, 06:21
i have always thought of Tyria as the continent that Ascalon, Kryta and Orr were located on.....

Barinthus
04-02-2006, 07:03
The Carvings of Balthazar are found on the base of the fountains and the Head topped piller witht he same carvings can be found at the Nonali /Academy which is why they are part of Ascalon and not something the Charr built.

You see the Carving of Balthazar, the same carving you find no the Banner with teh ruins on the base of the Ascalon fountains. If you pay attention you find theme verywhere. IT was not till a few days ago that I noticed this. This is the one with the large head with the cresent at the top of his head.

The one witht he Female head witht eh Common runes below can be found at the Ruins of Surmia mission aswel as Scutilla stated. You can find this ame piller in my Common rune location image that you find ont he first post.

From 6th Edition Thread... Eratimus - are you sure you're not my evil twin??? Speaking of the devil! Ever since I thought those undead carvings were Charr's and it wasn't until two or three days ago when I realized those were in Ascalon City as well. I only wish I had a pre-searing character so I could check out Ascalon City there. Anybody willing to check this out for us?

I'm not sure what those faces represent but Baltzar or Grenth is possible. Or a sythesis of both? Or sort of a way of mocking Charrs? Showing Ascalon superiority over Charrs?

Also I'm sure you guys have noticed carvings of a female face (such as those outside of Serenity Temple). Does this represent Dwyana?



It's generally accepted that Tyria is the name for both the planet and the Chapter 1 continent, and Cantha is a seperate continent. Although there's probably lots of official sources confirming this, here's the first I found offhand, from the Guild Wars Faction FAQ on the official site (emphasis mine).



Also, there are three nations in Cantha- the Canthans, whom are the merchants and Xunlai we've occasionally met in Tyria; the Kurzicks, artisans and crafters that live in petrified forests; and the Luxons, a sea-faring nation that now uses walking machines to travel the Jade Sea. The CVG article linked on the main page gives a bit of info on each nation.



If you guys read that interview with someone from A-Net (link on the homepage of this site) re: Factions, he said that Canth is a continent to south of Tyria.

Barinthus
04-02-2006, 07:06
NOTE TO MODERATORS - sorry, I didn't realize I was doubleposting.

Eratimus
04-02-2006, 08:29
From 6th Edition Thread... Eratimus - are you sure you're not my evil twin??? Speaking of the devil! Ever since I thought those undead carvings were Charr's and it wasn't until two or three days ago when I realized those were in Ascalon City as well. I only wish I had a pre-searing character so I could check out Ascalon City there. Anybody willing to check this out for us?

Actually I had done this. Originally I was going to see if I can see the full undamaged murals we see in post searing Ascalon, I realized when I brought in the character I was usging to find this out into the pre searing ascalon that the position of where Ascalon City is now was so drastic. What we see as post searing is aCTUYALLY in the river bed the Ascalon Academy bridge passes over. SO as we can not cross the stream to go over to where the murals would be I could nto varify whether or not the Murals were also there in pre, but I do think they are as they are now damaged, otherwise theyw ould look new. Now in response to your question I also wanted to see if I could see the fountain across the stream where it is now in post searing, ut it is not. The Fountain ONLY appears n post searing.


Also I'm sure you guys have noticed carvings of a female face (such as those outside of Serenity Temple). Does this represent Dwyana?

The same face is found at the Nonali Academy staging area aswell. As to whom it represents, it could either be Dwayna, or possibly even Lyssa. Atlhough it is something they make take some thinking on.

From what you guys have posted it would seem that the Continents are named, Tyria and Cathan so far. The reason I asked is the fact that my research is the Paleography of Tyria as I had originally thought it the name of the planet, although it was also a name we would give to the ocntient aswell.. Now that we have gone into another continent, the Tyria name, UNLESS the planet is name Tyriia wont work for my research. I woud like a universal name for all the lands instead of refering to the one continent. Unless as a community here unless we otherwise find out we also designate the planet itself Tyria. If we find anything else that would dispute it, then we change. This is something I would like to get the community response on.


This eye glyph also appears on the Shrines of Mending in the D'Alessio Seaboard mission.

The small eye we see everywhere is definately BAlthazar in origin. We see it at the ruined Balthazar temple and at the Balthazar temple on the BAttle Isle. It would make sense the fountain there would have it too. Although I am not sure the image we think as an eye on the Underworld pillers are refering to the same image as it is also part of another part of the glyph.


This rune also appears in the area near the Demogogue in the Aurora Glade bonus.

This may indeed be a local glyph used by the same people as if those of you know from beta and after release for a while Fort Koga WAS in the Maguuma Jungle aswell. I would like a screen shot of the Demogogue if anyone could get it for me.


The stone pillars with the "Janthir Tablets" also appear in front of the graveyard at the end of the Sanctum Cay bonus.

As per a specific wiki the Tablets display or have writen upon them the various chants and guidlines for following the "Faith" as each one actually tells of what one must do when worshiping. So, I suspect those are part of the different tablets that are scattered around Kyrta and the Jungle.


This describes the Nolani Academy tome, not the Ruins of Surmia tome. I gave a description of the Monument of the Fallen (from the Ruins of Surmia) in one of my posts in the 6th Edition thread.

Yes your ocmpletely right I had switche dthe area names as you can find one ine ach area.


Also, there are three nations in Cantha- the Canthans, whom are the merchants and Xunlai we've occasionally met in Tyria; the Kurzicks, artisans and crafters that live in petrified forests; and the Luxons, a sea-faring nation that now uses walking machines to travel the Jade Sea. The CVG article linked on the main page gives a bit of info on each nation.

So, from what we know Cantha is the new continent, and the people who live upon it are the Cathans, Jurzicks, and Luxons. Now as to the Zaishen, do they not actually appear in CAntha, but are now the new people on the Battle Isle. I had heard that a sect of the ppl on Cantha got ship wrecked or just set up at the Battle Isle eventually becoming their own poeple, if not are the Zaishen anywhere on Cantha itself?

Eratimus
04-02-2006, 08:36
Here is an image depicting the different representation of the Titans and Mursaat.

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9351/mursaattitanrepresentatoin4ti.th.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mursaattitanrepresentatoin4ti.jpg)

Here is a banner that is found in the Fort that Markis is found in the Mines of Maldune mission area. Apprently this is the possible crest of those who had once inhabited Maldune. Who they are, do we know?

http://img425.imageshack.us/img425/7997/markisbanner1qe.jpg

As I am still trying to work on the research below I again am bringing this up for community resposne. Any and allt houghts on what is below is appreciated ans some of it is still has locked secrets.

Wing Crest

(http://img490.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wingcrestemblem9fr.jpg)

We find this crest/emblem in a number of different areas in Tyria.

1. Shield of the Wing
2. Banner ouside of Ascalon Arena and Nonali Academy.
3. Banner and Platforms in the HoH.

We see this image everwhere. Its origin still has not bee decided on. Before I reliazed it was the same image in the HoH I had thought it was the crest of Asalon as it has been suggested their anmial is the Griffon. Some had said this is an image of a Lion with Wings, a Griffon, and others a Sphinx. But, the ultimate aspect that needs to be covered is what is its origin and why do we see it everwhere?

I have posted about this before, I simply wish to get more of a community response as it seems to be a major influence in what we see.

Prince Rurik and his Shield

In pre-searing Prince Rurik carries the blac Skeletal shield. In post I find out he is now carrying the Lionhead Shield. I had originally thought that the lionhead shield was actually the crest of the True emblem of Kryta/Lion's ARch but this sorta douses that idea. What do you see about the change in shields? And do we see any crest that could be the true crest of Kryta?

Nation Crestes needed

1. As we no longer have a banner to reflect the Charr, if there is one at all I could use an image.

2. The only crest or emblem we have from the Orr is the small maple leave we find on the "Decayed Orr Emblem". If anyone knows of anything else that could represent the Orr please let me know.

3. There are a number of the ruined ships we see all over the Crystal Desert that shows the existense of the Morganites. If anyone is able to get ahold of any nation emblem or crest for them, please let me know.

4. No conclusinve crest or emblem for the Elonians have been identified. All we really have is the image we see beneath signs. This could be the remnane of either Margonnites or Elonians. If anyone finds something for the Elonians, please post there.

5. Nothing definate has been found for the Zaishen. There are some images we find on the sails of their ships, but it would be great to get a community thought on what the Zaishen may be represented by.

6. Looking for anything that may represent the Stone Summit.

jciardha
05-02-2006, 01:03
Like Eratimus, I spotted a similar banner, this time while clearing Spearhead Peak of Stone Summit.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/jciardha/spearheadpeak.jpg

Might this be the Stone Summit emblem?

Pub-O
05-02-2006, 01:24
All this is very interesting. It should be added to some part of the site. I didn't know that there were any depth to the storyline at all. More people should know about this<.<

Inercia
05-02-2006, 03:46
Found something that could be interesting (iīm sorry if this was brought up already) :
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/4286/faces7wx.th.jpg (http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=faces7wx.jpg)

I belive these statue faces are equal to those found in the desert, but these were taken in the catacombs in pre-sear (in the entrance nearest to barradins estate there is a room with gargoyles and lots of coffins in the walls, in the furthest wall look up). Could this be a link to the desert cultures and ascalon?

Another thing i found is in post-sear near serenity temple, there is this ele quest you get there (donīt recall the name) where you must use three "earth altars" that have a simbol in it:
http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/6511/earthaltar2lk.th.jpg (http://img93.imageshack.us/my.php?image=earthaltar2lk.jpg)

īthis is all i got. Keep up the good work.

Eratimus
05-02-2006, 15:28
Like Eratimus, I spotted a similar banner, this time while clearing Spearhead Peak of Stone Summit.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/jciardha/spearheadpeak.jpg

Might this be the Stone Summit emblem?

That could be possible. Also, it depending on where the inabitants of Maldune occupied. I would like ot see if this banner is in any primary city or fortress for the Stone Summit themselves.


Found something that could be interesting (iīm sorry if this was brought up already) :


I belive these statue faces are equal to those found in the desert, but these were taken in the catacombs in pre-sear (in the entrance nearest to barradins estate there is a room with gargoyles and lots of coffins in the walls, in the furthest wall look up). Could this be a link to the desert cultures and ascalon?

Another thing i found is in post-sear near serenity temple, there is this ele quest you get there (donīt recall the name) where you must use three "earth altars" that have a simbol in it:


īthis is all i got. Keep up the good work.

Good work, indeed those statues look like those found in the Desert. They could be from 1 of 2 peoples. The Margonites build towers to try and reach the heavens. We know they are the ships, although we dont know yet whether they or the Elona are the arcitects of the towering statues of men and women. This may also give proof that perhaps the CD Catecolms and the ones in the Ascalon region are connected which would have given a passage for the Charr to reach the desert bypassing the high mountains to the south, sort of like the Mines of Moria.

As to the second, that is interesting. I will have to look the glyph up in my collection. IT appears to be a hand with the spiral perhaps symbolizing magic flowing out of it in a spiral type direction.

Eratimus
06-02-2006, 00:43
In Pre-searing Ascalon when you access the Catacombs you will eventually find an area covered with the Undead, remember this is pre-searing. From Necromancer Munne we know from one of his Dialogs " The dead are restless. Buried here are many brave warriors who sacrificed their lives defending Ascalon from foreign guilds from the south and the bestial Charr to the north. They wonder if it is not too much that their sacrifices be remembered and honored."

"Someone must place candles on the four stands commemorating their actions so they will know we have not forgotten them." "

So at this point it is safe to assume the Undead beleath in the Catacombs are Ascalonian. You find them down paths, around a bottomless pit, and other locations. Although there is something that does not fit with this all....

If you explore enough you will come upon a crypt. A Chamber that is filled with rows of open Caskets and 3 towering pillers with three heads atop them. That strikes me odd are the heads themselves. Where else have we seen these SAME statues?.......


The crystal desert if you did not guess it. After easy ocmparison it would seem this chamber which is below Ascalon and far from the Desert has statues that are also found in the Desert.

This brings some points to bare.

1. Either those statues are Acalonian which tells us they had a presence in the Desert long ago as we see the fallen towering statues,

or

2. That chamber is Orrian. We know they have access to "a" catacomb which is where Vizier got the scroll used to cause the Cataclysm. We also know that some how the Charr made their way to or near Orr, their nation. I found in pre-searing catacombs that there is a blocked passage that DOES head SW, whi it may not be the one, but since no other passages in the catacombs lead no where but to Green Hill Country and other ouside areas, that infact this is part of the tunnel system that connects the Ascalon Catacombs to the Orr Catacombs. If this is so this explains one of the ways the Charr could have gotten to Orr as this shows of a possible direct route under the mountain range to the south of Acalon. This also brings into question why and how there is an Orr presence just below Ascalon nd also shows that perhaps the Orr were present that far East in the Desert where we see the SAME statues either still partially standing for crumbled. This also gives a direct route for the undead of the Orr to have reached Acalon.

Also note how similar the bracer of one of the CD statues resembles what Vizier weres. Other then him, we never really have found any armor on any MOB or NPC that resembles the armor ecept for the Warrior helms that look like one of the statue heads.

3. The other idea is that the statues in the Desert AND under Ascalon are of the Elona, and if so, WHy are they there?

I also found what looks to be access tunnels beneath the desert. While they could simply be small undergroupd chambers, who really can be sure?

Ultimately, what is the connection between the chamber with the uncovered caskets and the SAME statue heads found in the Crystal desert? You also notice that BOTH sets of heads have the SAME cracks in the same positions. While this is simply using the same skin for the two sets, it varifies they ARE the same statues AND the same people.

What would you derive from all of this?

SW Passage
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7656/swcatacombspassage4ck.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swcatacombspassage4ck.jpg)

Bottomless Pit
http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/8573/presearingcatacombpit8jp.th.jpg (http://img54.imageshack.us/my.php?image=presearingcatacombpit8jp.jpg)

Crystal Desert Statues
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/8929/crystaldesertstatues9ig.th.jpg (http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crystaldesertstatues9ig.jpg)
Heroe's Audiance

Catacomb Statues
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/4098/elonacatecombstatues0ll.th.jpg (http://img355.imageshack.us/my.php?image=elonacatecombstatues0ll.jpg)
Ascalon Catacombs

Eratimus
06-02-2006, 00:44
Crystal Desert and Catacomb Statue Comparison
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/1469/crystaldesertandcatacombstatue.th.jpg (http://img356.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crystaldesertandcatacombstatue.jpg)
Note they ARE the same heads. Those on the left are from the CD, those on the right are found UNDER Ascalon in the Catacombs.

Crystal Desert Tunnel Entrances
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4379/crystaldeserttunnelentrances5k.th.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crystaldeserttunnelentrances5k.jpg)
Just NW of the Heroe's Audiance outpost

cinders
06-02-2006, 01:45
Regarding the GW Planet vs Continents, do you see Tyria as being the Planet name or Continent? We know the new area is the Canthan Kingdom, nothing stating that it is actually another Continient. As far as we knew about the would we only knew the mainland as Tyria. I forsee that the planet itself is Tyria and none of the Continents are named. Does anyone have anything they wish to reflect otherwise?

My understanding was the whole planet was named Tyria. For some reason, the continent of Ascalon, Kryta and Orr had no name, probably as there were no other continents thought about at that writing.

Pan Sola
06-02-2006, 01:55
Regarding the GW Planet vs Continents, do you see Tyria as being the Planet name or Continent? We know the new area is the Canthan Kingdom, nothing stating that it is actually another Continient. As far as we knew about the would we only knew the mainland as Tyria. I forsee that the planet itself is Tyria and none of the Continents are named. Does anyone have anything they wish to reflect otherwise?

Actually, for Chapter 2, it is a new Continent named Cantha, which has 3 nations in it, and one of them is also called Cantha.

If that's confusing, consider there's America the continent (usually got split into North and South halves), and then there is the United States of America, which is often abbreviated to just "America".

In a similar manner, I believe Tyria is both the name of the World (planet) and the name of a continent. At a LA appearance (1/23), Gaile Gray said that "two lower-level arenas will remain on the Tyrian Continent:". At a different appearance (1/21), she said "The gold standard remains across all of Tyria, the world." and I really believe the latter is to address whether Chapter 2 will introduce a new currency (though I cannot prove it).

Inercia
06-02-2006, 04:31
Found another symbol that i think you don't have yet:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8245/druid3xg.th.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=druid3xg.jpg)

It can be found in the bonus area of the bloodstone mission, it appears in the locations where you must summon the druids, so it must be related to them.

About the statue heads in the catacombs and the ascalon/Desert relation, i think that a logical course of events would be that the "northern" civilizations (ascalon, kryta and orr) would be colonies from the desert folk, probably settled by "fugitives" who didn't liked what was happening in the desert, i think itīs easier for settlers to forget their homeland than the other way around especially when it is a place of significant religious importance like the desert.
The idea of a underground connection between ascalon and the desert is somewhat unlikely but not impossible, especially when we notice the short distance between fort ranik and the tombs.
One last thing, the dragonīs lair mission is a test for our characters, therefor i always assumed that it takes place in a "virtual" place, therefore making the existence of the dead bodies of ascalonians just something to make us "nervous" and "fearful" of the place.

Barinthus
06-02-2006, 06:06
As for stone summit, I wonder if their symbols could be found in Sorrows Furance? I will keep my eye peeled next time I go there (only if I can find a group who will let my ranger in! Ranger hate, sigh)

Scott the Green
06-02-2006, 07:24
Janthir Runes:

Image (http://img58.imageshack.us/my.php?image=janthirglyph6vf.jpg)

2. A part of the Eye of Janthir itself there is a ring of runes that float at the bottom and move along with it as it is transported.

The Janthir glyph looks almost exactly the same as the glyph that appears on the bloodstone in the cinematic in the Bloodstone Fen mission. I thought I had a screenshot of it, but I don't.

It has the same colouration and everything.

Eratimus
06-02-2006, 10:40
Actually, for Chapter 2, it is a new Continent named Cantha, which has 3 nations in it, and one of them is also called Cantha.

If that's confusing, consider there's America the continent (usually got split into North and South halves), and then there is the United States of America, which is often abbreviated to just "America".

In a similar manner, I believe Tyria is both the name of the World (planet) and the name of a continent. At a LA appearance (1/23), Gaile Gray said that "two lower-level arenas will remain on the Tyrian Continent:". At a different appearance (1/21), she said "The gold standard remains across all of Tyria, the world." and I really believe the latter is to address whether Chapter 2 will introduce a new currency (though I cannot prove it).

Actually if you read everything I wrote you would have seen that I did call the new conteanant Cantha. Lore when refering to CH1 Contintenet states it to be Tyria. IN lore we know the two continents to be Tyria and Cantha,although I have nto seen anywhere that specifically stated whther or not the planet itself was Tyria.


About the statue heads in the catacombs and the ascalon/Desert relation, i think that a logical course of events would be that the "northern" civilizations (ascalon, kryta and orr) would be colonies from the desert folk, probably settled by "fugitives" who didn't liked what was happening in the desert, i think itīs easier for settlers to forget their homeland than the other way around especially when it is a place of significant religious importance like the desert.
The idea of a underground connection between ascalon and the desert is somewhat unlikely but not impossible, especially when we notice the short distance between fort ranik and the tombs.
One last thing, the dragonīs lair mission is a test for our characters, therefor i always assumed that it takes place in a "virtual" place, therefore making the existence of the dead bodies of ascalonians just something to make us "nervous" and "fearful" of the place.

Your forgetting someything important. The fact that we see the same statues in two different places. The people who constructed the towering statues in the Desert are the same ones who built the crypt we find in the Catacombs. With this in mind, There has to be a direct route from the desert to the Catacombs we see. I dont see a differetn people traveling across ground level all the way up to Ascalon and then going below to build a crypt for their people. They would have entered it from somewhere else. WHY an Orr or Elona crypt is under Ascalon is also a mystery. Your not seeing all the findings as a whole. Just taking one aspect to rule it out does not reflect all theo hter findings that back it up.

Actually, those dead bodies we see were said to be from the gorup of ppl traveling with DEvonna, Alesia, and the others who had just gone through the same thing we did. WE find this out when talking with them when we arrive in Droknars Forge. They had just arrived there when we did and comment on losing friends along the way in the Dragon's Lair.

Eratimus
06-02-2006, 12:08
Found another symbol that i think you don't have yet:

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8245/druid3xg.th.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=druid3xg.jpg)

It can be found in the bonus area of the bloodstone mission, it appears in the locations where you must summon the druids, so it must be related to them.

About the statue heads in the catacombs and the ascalon/Desert relation, i think that a logical course of events would be that the "northern" civilizations (ascalon, kryta and orr) would be colonies from the desert folk, probably settled by "fugitives" who didn't liked what was happening in the desert, i think itīs easier for settlers to forget their homeland than the other way around especially when it is a place of significant religious importance like the desert.
The idea of a underground connection between ascalon and the desert is somewhat unlikely but not impossible, especially when we notice the short distance between fort ranik and the tombs.
One last thing, the dragonīs lair mission is a test for our characters, therefor i always assumed that it takes place in a "virtual" place, therefore making the existence of the dead bodies of ascalonians just something to make us "nervous" and "fearful" of the place.


That Glyph is found in two other places in the Maguuma Jungle, one is in the Fort Koga arena, and one other. I think it is afe to say that indeed this is a Druid Glyph, perhaps one of Summoning power? Or a portal glyph?

Eratimus
06-02-2006, 13:54
Kessex Peak Pillers

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/4408/kassexpeakpillars8yq.th.jpg (http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kassexpeakpillars8yq.jpg)

Foiund within the Kassex Peak, you find nurmerous trio of glowing pillers. All along the trail till you reach the flowing Wizards Tower they continue to pulse with energy. Their use are not currently known. Any thoughts?

Barinthus
06-02-2006, 14:00
Refresh me - where is Kassex Peak?

And as for Eye of Janthir - did the game ever explain the origins of that object? I assume it was Mursaat made.

Eratimus
06-02-2006, 14:16
Kessex is directly south of Black Curtain, it is where Gareth quest is, and where the floating wizard tower is. As for the Eye of Janthir: The Divine Eye of Janthir is an artifact of great power used by the White Mantle to find the Chosen among people under their rule. Saul D'Alessio brought the artifact from the Island of Janthir where it is said that the inhabitants posses the gift of True Sight and that the artifact possesses a fraction of this power.

Inercia
06-02-2006, 19:36
That Glyph is found in two other places in the Maguuma Jungle, one is in the Fort Koga arena, and one other.

oops! sorry my bad! i missed it in the first post.

Concerning the the statues enigma, i just thought of something, if you remember the room the statues are in is quite different from the rest of the catacombs, for instance i think it is the only place where we actually see coffins (i say this from memory, i could be very wrong) and in my explorations of the catacombs i remember not another place with such architecture (i believe the bottomless pit area is somewhat different).

Now i think that maybe we extrapolated the findings too far ( considering that it just isnīt lazy map making from the devs :grin:, but agree with the position you stated in the other thread), maybe the entire catacomb wasnīt built by the desert people, maybe this is just a room for a important family from the desert, ambassadors or something like that. If you remember the connection between that room and the rest of the catacombs is maybe by some narrow and rough looking passageways. Maybe this room was even originally separated from the rest of the catacombs and with time a connection appeared.

The perfection in the build of that room could indicate that noble persons where buried there, and the open and desecrated coffins indicate that no one took care of that place, maybe because the connections with the desert civilizations where lost and as such the roots of such family/persons were lost and diluted in the ascalonian civilization

Sam the Angry
06-02-2006, 20:16
I found what appears to be a Druid Shrine in the Talmark wilderness. It is comprised of four trees with stone rings around them. In the middle of all them there are four large pillars with runes on them. There is a spring at the bottom of these pillars. These runes are ones I have never seen before, and may give us insight into the alphabet of the Druids. Im trying to post screenshots, but it says that the file is too big to post on imageshack.

Rob Van Der Sloot
06-02-2006, 20:39
About time someone made a map of the Catecombs if you ask me. ^^
I wouldn't be surprised if the catecombs ran all the way underneath the shiverpeaks. There's a caved in tunnel in Mineral Springs (a wurm also pops up in this area). The entrance is blocked, but could this be another clue that the catecombs run all the way underneath the Shiverpeaks? And if so... wouldn't the stone summit have stumbled upon the catecombs by now, since they are so fond of digging. Perhaps there are clues in Sorrow's Furnace that might shed some light on this.

Also, perhaps someone should check the Vizier and his surroundings to see if there are any clues during any of the missions about his person. I don't believe he had anything on his cape, but who knows, I could be wrong.

What also is a bit strange, is that the Vizier summons an entire ship during the last mission before you reach the Crystal Desert. Is this another power of the scepter of Orr? To bring things dead or broken and make them whole again? If that is true, perhaps the scepter does not summon the titans, but brings them back to life. There is a subtle difference, since Titans fall apart when they are killed. Perhaps the scepter simply reassembles them?

jvxmtg
06-02-2006, 20:52
2. That chamber is Orrian. We know they have access to "a" catacomb which is where Vizier got the scroll used to cause the Cataclysm. We also know that some how the Charr made their way to or near Orr, their nation. I found in pre-searing catacombs that there is a blocked passage that DOES head SW, whi it may not be the one, but since no other passages in the catacombs lead no where but to Green Hill Country and other ouside areas, that infact this is part of the tunnel system that connects the Ascalon Catacombs to the Orr Catacombs. If this is so this explains one of the ways the Charr could have gotten to Orr as this shows of a possible direct route under the mountain range to the south of Acalon.

Now that you mentioned it, I remember doing a quest given by Prince Rurik in pre-searing to check if the Charr is coming from the catacomb. If Prince Rurik has this suspiscion, there must be a tunnel system down there in the catacomb.

Eratimus
07-02-2006, 04:04
I found what appears to be a Druid Shrine in the Talmark wilderness. It is comprised of four trees with stone rings around them. In the middle of all them there are four large pillars with runes on them. There is a spring at the bottom of these pillars. These runes are ones I have never seen before, and may give us insight into the alphabet of the Druids. Im trying to post screenshots, but it says that the file is too big to post on imageshack.

Yes, these are the Druid spires I have listed under the Common runes section of the findings. YOu will find the same runes all over Tyria. On banners depicting Balthazar, on the bottom of statues in what was once the undestroyed staging area of the Tombs, pentants found in the Battle Isled and Bergen Hotsprings and other locations. I have them in detail under the Common rune section of the findings.

As posted in the catacomb findings:

Alright, to look at this objectively we have to show what we know.

205 BE: Humans appear on the Tyrian continent.
100 BE: High planes human settlements become known as Ascalon.
1 BE: The Old Gods give magic to the races of Tyria
1 AE: The Exodus of the Gods.
2 AE: Orr becomes an independent
174 AE: Serpents leave the world of men.
221 AE: Cantha starts trade relations with Tyria
300 AE: Kryta becomes a colony either of Orr or Ascalon.
358 AE: Kryta becomes an independent nation

What we dont know is When the Margonites, and the humans of Cantha became nations.

But from just this we can atleast assume that

1. Humans first appeared on the Tyrian Continent, thus humans did not inhabit what is known as Cantha till later. And also this validates that Tyria is the name of hte continent itself.

2. From what we know so far, though this can change, The Ascalonians were the first human culture, lature splintering into what we know as the Krytans.

3. We do know The Orr appear about 103 years after Ascalon from people form Ascalon as Kryta did not exist for another 300 years

4. 100 years later the forgotten retreat to the Crystal Desert which from the timeline no humans were there at the time.

5. While Cantha starts trade with Tyria, this really still does not show WHEN the nations on it formed,a lthough we can be safe to say it was before 221 AE

6. Kryta then becomes a colony 300 years after Orr which makes it quite a new nation. about 700 or so years ago.

We dont know when the Canthan nations formed, but we know the Margonites did not arrive in the once fertile desert till after 174AE and the Canthans did not form later then 221 AE as that is when trade relations began with Orr and Ascalon.

We also dont know when the Elona arrived in the Desert nor when the nation formed, but we also know they did not arrive till after 174 AE

We know that the desert did not become a derst till anytime after the Margonites arrived there as evidense by their ships land locked. Which is osmetime after 174 AE

While the statues of whom ever are there, we dont have proof that they are actually suppose to stretch across the water ways or line the shores like the Colossos of our world did.

We also dont know when exactly the Margonites arrived int he derset nor when the desert dried up.

While it can be assumed, we dont know if the margonites actually originated from Cantha, but we do know they did not originate as the nation of Margonite in the Continent of Tyria or we would have probably known about it, as we know when Orr and Kryta, and Ascalon formed.

We do know that Orr came about 1 year after the exodus.

From the information stating what we do know, this does tell us

1. As Ascalon was the first human colony as far as we know, no other culture arrived from the desert or elsewhere, created the statues then formed what we know as Ascalon. Although this does not rule out a people coming from wlesewhere to build the chamber I posted and the statues that are also found in the Desert.

2. Cantha did not begin trade relations with the continent of Tyria until 221 AE, 199 years after the Orr becomes an independent nation. This ALSO means that the Orr were probably originally Ascalonian as no other people existed at the time. Most likely this first trading occured with the Orr as the krytan did not come aobut for another 300 years.

3. The Elona may most likely had originated as Orr or Ascalonians.

4. As the Orr originated in Ascalon as the Krytans did not come for another 300 years after the Orr, this tells us that perhaps the Ascalonans ventured south to the desert first then headed west, or crossed the south Shiverpeaks. This could also show that those statues COULD actually be Ascalonians, as thea re in their catacombs and int he desert where they may have ventuered BEFORE heading west to eventually form Orr after the Exodus.

5. Krytan formed AFTER the people on Cantha as trade with Tyria began prior to its founding.

How do we know that those statues were ACTUALLY ancient Ascalonians who first created the crypt and statues in te catacombs and later builtt hem in the desert?

We need to know when the Elona and Margonites arrived in the Desert.

So I think all this atleast tells us that a culture did not come to the Ascalon area to foudn ascalon.

This is mainly what we know so feel free to use this to help to make points regarding to possibilities.

Barinthus
07-02-2006, 06:22
That Glyph is found in two other places in the Maguuma Jungle, one is in the Fort Koga arena, and one other. I think it is afe to say that indeed this is a Druid Glyph, perhaps one of Summoning power? Or a portal glyph?

I have found this glyph in two places - one in Ettin's Back and one in Dry Top. Both were rez shrines. I have screenies.

And, Rob, there is actually a map of Catacombs. I didn't make this map myself, I got it off some other website which I want to credit but I am not sure if this would violate a forum rule.

I took the liberty of marking with green arrow where that 'dead end' is and drew in red where the wall was. The other side is that chamber with the bottomless pit and the corrindor was not on the same level as the floor in the chamber. It was above so if there was no wall there, you would have been able to look down into that chamber.

http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/2998/118full3zz.th.jpg (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=118full3zz.jpg)

jvxmtg
09-02-2006, 01:51
I was browsing through the screenshots here in GWO and check this out;

http://gwonline.net/screenshots/index.php?type=&id=2605

Then compare that to the Charr's effigies :)

Arkhan The Black
09-02-2006, 02:02
Yeah he got wings but that doesn’t mean anything. I would imagine the Lich would try to keep a low profile and not draw attention to him.

Since the Titans seem to be able to take any shape the burning effigies might as well be Titans and not the Lich.

jvxmtg
09-02-2006, 02:36
Yeah he got wings but that doesn’t mean anything. I would imagine the Lich would try to keep a low profile and not draw attention to him.

Since the Titans seem to be able to take any shape the burning effigies might as well be Titans and not the Lich.

No need for the Lich to stay in low profile since everyone was aware of him, besides he disguised himself as the Vizier.

Eratimus
09-02-2006, 02:44
No need for the Lich to stay in low profile since everyone was aware of him, besides he disguised himself as the Vizier.

Whille had horns and the winsg where the bones spreaded otu similar to the appendgeges on the Charr effige, they are not spread the same way, you have the appendeges shtread out in a fan fashion like the featherr appendages of the Mursaat. The mursaat ALSO had the same cresent on thier heads. This is why I see the that one effigie style resembling the Mursaat more then the Lich. Which you can see in the Effigie comparison I have with the Mursaat monk.

Barinthus
09-02-2006, 03:27
I don't know... those effigies look awfully a lot like titans to me. Especially that they're hunched over not standing up straight.

Anyway as promised, here's druid glyphs I found at rezzie shrines...

One in Dry Top
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4011/druidgylphdrytop5ko.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=druidgylphdrytop5ko.jpg)

Ettin's Back
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6127/druidgylphettinback1xw.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=druidgylphettinback1xw.jpg)

Eratimus
09-02-2006, 04:01
I don't know... those effigies look awfully a lot like titans to me. Especially that they're hunched over not standing up straight.

Anyway as promised, here's druid glyphs I found at rezzie shrines...

One in Dry Top
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4011/druidgylphdrytop5ko.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=druidgylphdrytop5ko.jpg)

Ettin's Back
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6127/druidgylphettinback1xw.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=druidgylphettinback1xw.jpg)


We are not talign about the same effigies that look like large crabs, which is appretnly the Titan. We are talking about another style. Iwill post the url to the ocmparison I made, which is also foudn on the first post here with all my findings.

Hmmm I never put it up on teh front page. Let me get the url for you that shows the proposed Mursaat effigie enxt to a mursaat and also shows the apparent Titan effigie.

Durza the Shadeking
09-02-2006, 04:08
Quote
"And, Rob, there is actually a map of Catacombs. I didn't make this map myself, I got it off some other website which I want to credit but I am not sure if this would violate a forum rule.

I took the liberty of marking with green arrow where that 'dead end' is and drew in red where the wall was. The other side is that chamber with the bottomless pit and the corrindor was not on the same level as the floor in the chamber. It was above so if there was no wall there, you would have been able to look down into that chamber."
End Quote

Acctully you can to get to THAT entrance buy going to do the Prize Moa Bird quest and taking a right.
however in the lower corner of the map near the wizard folly entrance (to the left while look at the map) there is a caved in section.

Eratimus
09-02-2006, 04:10
Here is the Mursaat effigie comparison

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9351/mursaattitanrepresentatoin4ti.th.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mursaattitanrepresentatoin4ti.jpg)

Ju Smurph
09-02-2006, 04:13
Here is the Mursaat effigie comparison

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9351/mursaattitanrepresentatoin4ti.th.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mursaattitanrepresentatoin4ti.jpg)
That is pretty cool. I'm normally to busy playing than looking that deep...

Eratimus
09-02-2006, 04:15
It makes you think. The White Mantle BAnner really does seem to represent the Mursaat. So, IF that is what the White Mantle crest is depeicting, we knew about the Mursaat even before we met them LOL

Durza the Shadeking
09-02-2006, 04:18
Also, not pertaining to the catacombs, does anyone have pictures of Faction BWE Tombs. On the sides it showed images of human fighting Charr or charr like creatures

EDIT: I mean PRE BWE Tombs.

Eratimus
09-02-2006, 04:32
You mean outside architectore or a movie or mural? What esaclty depicted this?

Durza the Shadeking
09-02-2006, 04:40
The Tombs wall we can see has the door, brief walls and the King Statues.
On the wall you see (on both side except flipped to keep it symectrical) a Human Sword-Weilding Warrior fighting a Charr Blade Storm on mural. It was higher up than the regular wall so you would need angle you camera to see it. As soo nas I can fix my old comp, I can get my pictures.

Buffalo Chip
09-02-2006, 05:37
You work for Anet don't you

Barinthus
09-02-2006, 05:45
Acctully you can to get to THAT entrance buy going to do the Prize Moa Bird quest and taking a right.
however in the lower corner of the map near the wizard folly entrance (to the left while look at the map) there is a caved in section.

See number 6 on the map? THat's prize moa quest destination.


It makes you think. The White Mantle BAnner really does seem to represent the Mursaat. So, IF that is what the White Mantle crest is depeicting, we knew about the Mursaat even before we met them LOL

Oh definitely yes. Somewhere else I mentioned that it's funny how what you know or experienced affect your persceptive. The first time I came across white mantle, I thought that thing on their cloaks were some kind of swords. Then much later when I ran into Mursaats and noticed Mursaat statues (that mission where you had to defend a white mantle temple from undead) that was when I realized thing on their cloaks were Mursaat.

White Mantle Temple from Riverside - you can see two statues in distance
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2347/whitemantletemple4zv.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/my.php?image=whitemantletemple4zv.jpg)

A statue from white mantle temple from that mission where you had to defend it from undead
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/9770/mursaatstatue5sw.th.jpg (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mursaatstatue5sw.jpg)

I've always took them to represent the Unseen Gods hence the Mursaats. Note that the material of the second statue appear to be the same material you see on Jades, Bloodstone, ring of fire missions and so on.

Re: Effigy, oh I now understand. Oh yeah that looks like a Mursaat to me, not the Lich.

Durza the Shadeking
09-02-2006, 05:49
you go to "almost" where the destination is except you don't go in. You tern right and keep killing skelys. Eventully you will go through that tunnel and it leads to the door,that you can't reach from bottemless pit, where there is a level 5 Skeleton Boss.

Barinthus
09-02-2006, 06:00
you go to "almost" where the destination is except you don't go in. You tern right and keep killing skelys. Eventully you will go through that tunnel and it leads to the door,that you can't reach from bottemless pit, where there is a level 5 Skeleton Boss.


Exactly. That green arrow points to that skeleton boss.

Durza the Shadeking
09-02-2006, 06:04
So in reality it's not realy blocked off, because you just go around.

My course is green.
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4396/map1cc.png

Eratimus
09-02-2006, 18:42
Right, I had already conceded that the passage I thought was closed off wasnt. But that does not mean there isnt a lcosed off passage anywhere else. Just not there.

But also notice those of you who have been readin gthe Crystal Desert/Cataccomb thread that the first image that is posted agove is the SAME shrine/summoner that is on the island with the large castle the poser first thought was a teleporter. That is why I said it was a shrine or divine summoner of sorts as we see the same ones thorugh out the jungle as well. The picture abvoe shows the shrine activated with a radiating light into the sky.

And, also as those statues show u, we know of and knwo what the Mursaat look like before we even meet them. Because they are o the White Mantle crest and the mursaat statues.

Eratimus
09-02-2006, 19:35
Ascalon's Chosen vs Crest of Ascalon

We find the sword and shield crest in a number of different places..

1. ON the back of Prince Ruric
1. On the back of King Aldebron
3. On the back of the Mad King Thom, undead King of Kryta
4. ON the gates to the Ascalon Academy.
5. ON a Flag found in the Random Arena staging area of the Battle Isles.

I first assumed this was just the emblem/crest of Ascalon, then remembering back omeoen speaking of a possbiel guild Ruric was in and just reading it now, could the emblem be of the Ascalon's Chosen guild, and if so, perhaps synominous with the Crest of the Ascalon Kingdom? It would also seem that guilds are also seem synominous with some nations like the Stone Summit.

Ascalon's Chosen was the guild to which Mardakai, Devona's father served which is the guild that fought in the Battle of Kyhlo in 1052 AE. It was this guild that many times had been called out to defend the city. Only the strongest guild held the castle—only the best in the land. This was in defense of the attack by The Zealots of Shiverpeak an Orrian guild on Ascalon City itself.

For those intrested in the lore, this was the Battle that Devona's father fell which we saw in one of the GW betw movies. This is what got DEvona truly going on her path as a warrior.

Would the sword and sheild we see be the crest of the Ascalon's Chosen and possibly still the crest of Ascalon itself?

And on the same line of thought, isn't it funny that Glint fortold that "The Chosen" will defeat the Mursaat, the chosen they find who come from Ascallon, to which technically WE were all part of Ascalon's Chosen. it would seem that the Chosen Glint saw was depicting Ascalon's Chosen guild :) since the chosen were not who the White Mantle thought, bein those we gathered in the Divinity Coast mission who were ppl of Kryta, but infact US who were ppl of Asalon.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4705/ascalonemblems0mq.th.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascalonemblems0mq.jpg)

jvxmtg
09-02-2006, 20:42
Ascalon's Chosen vs Crest of Ascalon

We find the sword and shield crest in a number of different places..

1. ON the back of Prince Ruric
1. On the back of King Aldebron
3. On the back of the Mad King Thom, undead King of Kryta
4. ON the gates to the Ascalon Academy.
5. ON a Flag found in the Random Arena staging area of the Battle Isles.


So, the undead King of Kryta is also a member of the Ascalon's Chosen guild? Is it posible that this is the main reason why King Adelbern strongly distrust the Krytans? Maybe King Thom was a deserter during the Guild Wars?

Barinthus
10-02-2006, 03:08
So in reality it's not realy blocked off, because you just go around.

My course is green.
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4396/map1cc.png

Yep - that's the only way to get there.

Barinthus
10-02-2006, 03:26
Ascalon's Chosen vs Crest of Ascalon

We find the sword and shield crest in a number of different places..

1. ON the back of Prince Ruric
1. On the back of King Aldebron
3. On the back of the Mad King Thom, undead King of Kryta
4. ON the gates to the Ascalon Academy.
5. ON a Flag found in the Random Arena staging area of the Battle Isles.



May I add one more to your collection? This is found on that tome from the bonus quest from Nolani's Academy Mission, presented by my ever lovely elementalist ;)

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1996/tome6fn.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tome6fn.jpg)

Speaking of Nolani's Academy. This is Ascalon territory yet I found a banner that has a different emblem.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6602/nolanibanner6pk.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nolanibanner6pk.jpg)

Similar one was found at Tombs

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7862/tombsbanner22yo.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tombsbanner22yo.jpg)

There was one much deeper into the Tombs (the Courtyard I believe) and it's somewhat similiar yet different enough that it could be an entirely different banner.

http://img285.imageshack.us/img285/9154/tombsbanner6rj.th.jpg (http://img285.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tombsbanner6rj.jpg)

Eratimus
10-02-2006, 10:14
Barinthus

Yes I currently have those. If you lookat the first thread you will see the banners witht he runs under the section about the Common runes. I also have a section about the winded imaged specifically as we see it in the HoH, in Ascalon, on the Shield of the Wing and other areas.

But, yes it is there in my research in detail.

Check

Winged Emblem and the Common runes section.

Eratimus
10-02-2006, 10:20
So, the undead King of Kryta is also a member of the Ascalon's Chosen guild? Is it posible that this is the main reason why King Adelbern strongly distrust the Krytans? Maybe King Thom was a deserter during the Guild Wars?

I think that yes this is a possibility. Perhaps using the explaiantoin of the Sword and Shield emblem we see in that post your refering to being of the Ascalon Chosen, that perhaps the Winged emblem I also talk about in my first thread which depicts ALL the research coudl be explaiend in such a way.

The Winged emblem is found on banners in Ascalon, Nonali Academy, HoH, and on the Wing of the Shield shield. Perhaps it is actually a guild emblem of one of the guild sthat were there. OR if the Ascalons Chosen as I said were the best of the best, this may indicated IF the winged emblem is a gu ild sigil is actually Ascalons Chosen. Perhaps what makes a kingdom is whom ever is the controlling guild of Ascalon. Perhaps that is why we see Rurik and the Aldeburn with the same crest. Or again it might just be te crest of the Kingdom and not refering to a guild

I also have the Tome you have there which HAS the emblem that I posted about Ascalon and that Jmx is refering to. The image can be found under Tyrian Heraldy in the ifrist posts.

Perhaps Mad King Thom was a releative of Aldburn, which being royalty could have given him a right to rule a kingdom and they share either the Royal crest or the crest of a guild they all belong to.

Questions, questions, questions.

Dorf Trottel
10-02-2006, 12:13
I think it is far more likely that A.net just recycled King Adelbern's artwork for the Mad King's body. After all, it was only for an event and they have recycled artwork in many other places before.

Parker Bsb
10-02-2006, 12:29
Ok I havn't read the whole thread so I apologise if it's been mentioned,

but if you look at the banners just outside of Lion's Arch (take a left and head over the bridge) they look like they are depicting the Seer - strange since the white mantle are allied with the mursaat and the seer is their enemy (from what I can tell anyways).

Curious

Eratimus
10-02-2006, 14:09
I think it is far more likely that A.net just recycled King Adelbern's artwork for the Mad King's body. After all, it was only for an event and they have recycled artwork in many other places before.

Then why not recycle something we see around Kryta like the White Mantle emblem? He was Krytan afterall. I wont accept recycling or laxy programming till we find unrefutable proof that says so, like ANet actually saying it.


Ok I havn't read the whole thread so I apologise if it's been mentioned,

but if you look at the banners just outside of Lion's Arch (take a left and head over the bridge) they look like they are depicting the Seer - strange since the white mantle are allied with the mursaat and the seer is their enemy (from what I can tell anyways).

Curious

Which banners are these? Your not refering to the White Mantle emblem correct? Or the Winged emblem? If not, which banner?

Dorf Trottel
10-02-2006, 16:53
Its odd then, that you seem perfectly willing to make odd conclusions that the mad king was an ascalonian deserter before somehow ascending to the krytan throne without word from a.net.

Recycled artwork is just as valid an explanation (more valid in my opinion) as any put forth here. There is an established history of recycled artwork in Guild Wars after all. Not that I am blaming arena net. Sometimes you have to make compromises to get content out the door on time.

Barinthus
10-02-2006, 18:40
Ok I havn't read the whole thread so I apologise if it's been mentioned,

but if you look at the banners just outside of Lion's Arch (take a left and head over the bridge) they look like they are depicting the Seer - strange since the white mantle are allied with the mursaat and the seer is their enemy (from what I can tell anyways).

Curious

I am so definitely going to check out that once i get home.

Eratamus - Rurik and Aldeburn are son and father so it'd be natural that they share same royal embelm. My line of thinking is this: Royal Family is above guilds and have their own emblem. The winged emblem is the elite guild and they are revered in the Rift as well.

But one other possible idea is this: since the banner in the courtyard appeared to be better made and of superior craftsmanship - perhaps the rest are just copies by less skilled craftsmen? Someone went there and returned and then retained the image?

As for the Mad King - I prefer the theory that he was somehow related to the Ascalon royal line. IIRC Kytrans and Orrians split off from Ascalons long time ago so perhaps their royal personages still retain the ancient royal emblem?

jvxmtg
10-02-2006, 20:40
Its odd then, that you seem perfectly willing to make odd conclusions that the mad king was an ascalonian deserter before somehow ascending to the krytan throne without word from a.net.

Recycled artwork is just as valid an explanation (more valid in my opinion) as any put forth here. There is an established history of recycled artwork in Guild Wars after all. Not that I am blaming arena net. Sometimes you have to make compromises to get content out the door on time.

That's a posibility, but why would you pick an artwork that represents Ascalon rather than Kryta if not in fact that King Thom was really from Ascalon?

And I don't believe that it is a recycled artwork otherwise the Lion Guards will look like the Ascalon Vanguards if Anet has no regards on their significance.

Durza the Shadeking
10-02-2006, 23:42
Hey I got the Tombs mural. See what you make of them.
http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/68/6afcdf8c512a4eee9baf576cc6ee9168.th.jpg (http://server4.pictiger.com/img/6472/picture-hosting/untitled.php)

jvxmtg
11-02-2006, 00:08
Here's another account that will further complicate the chronology concerning Tyria.

King Doric.

According to the Historical Monument in King's Watch, King Doric was crowned king on 100 BE, the same year that "High-planes human settlements become known as Ascalon". He is the first king of the unified human kingdom, Ascalon, Kryta, and Orr. On 1BE, the gods gifted Tyria with magic, and on 1AE, King Doric offered his life for the Bloodstone to control the magic.

With these facts, it suggests that Ascalon, Kryta, and Orr are fully developed and functional regions in this Unified Kingdom prior to the crowning of King Doric on 100BE. King Doric was crowned in Ascalon, but his Royal Palace is in Lion's Arch, and his temple is in Orr.

This lead me to believe that Ascalon is the name of this Unified Kingdom and a years after the king's death that Orr declared independence from Ascalon. Then 356 years later, Kryta declared independence from Ascalon. Which help explain the reason behind the similarity of the cape worn by undead King Thom of Kryta and King Adelbern of Ascalon.

The only thing that distort the timeline with the history of King Doric is the fact that Kryta becomes a colony on 300AE. Which strongly suggest that Kryta doesn't exist before that date. If so, then there would not have been a Lion's Arch for King Doric's Royal Palace. Unless, the land now known as Kryta used to be Ascalon.

Any thoughts?

creamcake
11-02-2006, 00:21
[/QUOTE]

A statue from white mantle temple from that mission where you had to defend it from undead
http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/9770/mursaatstatue5sw.th.jpg (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mursaatstatue5sw.jpg)

I've always took them to represent the Unseen Gods hence the Mursaats. Note that the material of the second statue appear to be the same material you see on Jades, Bloodstone, ring of fire missions and so on.

Re: Effigy, oh I now understand. Oh yeah that looks like a Mursaat to me, not the Lich.[/QUOTE]


not sure but dont them statues appear in the fire island chain missions.

Barinthus
11-02-2006, 01:02
Yes that's correct, creamcake.

The shiny purple material are also all over there and they are also seen on bloodstone in the magumma jungle. The mursaat teleporter (what I take to be a teleporter) in Iron Mines mission is also made of the same material.

Dorf Trottel
11-02-2006, 03:13
The problem here is you're expecting everything you see here to be significant in some way. It has to be accepted that all that glitters is not gold. Some times artists in games just put things in because they think they look cool with little regard to storyline. Sometimes the things they put in do reflect the storyline.

The Mad King having recycled art isn't debatable. We can see it when we look at pictures of King Adelbern. It is the same armor with slight skin modifications such as the blue gem work being made orange. A guildmate pointed out the skin of the belt buckle is from Pyromancer armor. There are some sort of rotted looking embellishments added around the neck and shoulder too. You can choose to try to explain the reasons why a minor character only added in for a holiday event would wear the same armor and have the same cape as ascalonian royal family members by making up extra storyline, or you can choose the more mundane which is that they had limited time to devote to crafting original art for a one time appearance. Its not too hard to believe if you ask me. The art team is surely busy working on ch.2. We saw how long it took for 15k tormentor's armor to be completed.

Its not as if the mad king is some major story player. He's not something you'll see every time you enter lion's arch. There is no reason for them to toil long hours to give him a totally unique look like the vanguard or lionguard.

I'm not trying to ruin anyone's fun here. I am just saying that if you're aiming to be even the least bit accurate in your speculation; you need to confront that artwork is recycled as a time saver in many games. Especially in level design where level designers have a library of static meshes to choose from to embellish a level. If you don't consider the mundane, you run risk of over analyzing which can lead to false hypothesis.

Barinthus
11-02-2006, 17:09
That's the thing. Eratimus and some of us have agreed to ignore the possiblity of recycled artwork.

Yes you re correct - it is possible that developers got lazy and recycled some stuff but in a sense we're pretending we're one bunch of nerds in some tower in the game so we cannot acknowledge the existance of develoeprs can we?

Eratimus
11-02-2006, 19:43
Here's another account that will further complicate the chronology concerning Tyria.

King Doric.

According to the Historical Monument in King's Watch, King Doric was crowned king on 100 BE, the same year that "High-planes human settlements become known as Ascalon". He is the first king of the unified human kingdom, Ascalon, Kryta, and Orr. On 1BE, the gods gifted Tyria with magic, and on 1AE, King Doric offered his life for the Bloodstone to control the magic.

With these facts, it suggests that Ascalon, Kryta, and Orr are fully developed and functional regions in this Unified Kingdom prior to the crowning of King Doric on 100BE. King Doric was crowned in Ascalon, but his Royal Palace is in Lion's Arch, and his temple is in Orr.

This lead me to believe that Ascalon is the name of this Unified Kingdom and a years after the king's death that Orr declared independence from Ascalon. Then 356 years later, Kryta declared independence from Ascalon. Which help explain the reason behind the similarity of the cape worn by undead King Thom of Kryta and King Adelbern of Ascalon.

The only thing that distort the timeline with the history of King Doric is the fact that Kryta becomes a colony on 300AE. Which strongly suggest that Kryta doesn't exist before that date. If so, then there would not have been a Lion's Arch for King Doric's Royal Palace. Unless, the land now known as Kryta used to be Ascalon.

Any thoughts?


No what the tome said was that he united the Tribes that became Ascalon, not the Kingdoms. Until then there were broken tribes spread around the local area. Then after Ascalonians would spread out to form Orr, and either Orr or Ascalonians probably formed the ohter human kingdomes.

zweistein
12-02-2006, 14:34
I went to explore talmark, found this:

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1951/talmark3zr.jpg

Notice, that some rune sets are duplicated and mirrored! It could be that one of pair is on front side and other on back side of monolith ...

edit: just found that you know about them, nevermind :]

Eratimus
12-02-2006, 15:36
Yes, these are the Druid spires I have been refering to. These "common runes" are still something I am trying to still figure out.

Mr Panda
12-02-2006, 16:20
The funny thing is, whilst it may be recylced art, it's actually irrelevant - You have enough of something, random though it may be, and solid links will form.

For example, the links people can find by running word searches on every fourth/fith word in the bible (NOTE - not a religous discussion, dont turn it into one. Any big book works.), and you can see links, and they can be linked to real world events. It doesn't mean anythign, it's just statistics.

And because of that, links can be found in guildwars, alphabets derived and understood, and maps deciphered (the crystal desert thing).

Rob Van Der Sloot
12-02-2006, 16:34
Of course the fact that Gaile Gray already hinted that we are on the right track rules out that we are just making random connections.


Its odd then, that you seem perfectly willing to make odd conclusions that the mad king was an ascalonian deserter before somehow ascending to the krytan throne without word from a.net.

I think we are actually on the right track with the Mad King. There obviously is more history behind him than just simple lazyness of the gamedesigners. Just look at the facts:

Mad King Thom is a king. King of what?
He has the Ascalon crest on his cape, but he is Krytan.
He mentions skinning villagers alive in the past.

There is a pattern here, and it does hint that the Mad King had a connection with the kingdom of Ascalon, but some how became one of Tyria's most hated and feared figures. It is not unlikely that he was a deserter.

So in conclusion, Dorf Trottel, please stop turning this interesting thread into a debate about recycled art. If you want to discuss it, make your own thread, but I for one would like to follow the research of GW's background story.

Eratimus
12-02-2006, 17:04
Has anyone ever find the Bloodstone in the Shiverpeaks yet? We konw Devonnia was suppose to be sacrified on it, but we freed her before that took place.

Eratimus
12-02-2006, 17:08
Of course the fact that Gaile Gray already hinted that we are on the right track rules out that we are just making random connections.



I think we are actually on the right track with the Mad King. There obviously is more history behind him than just simple lazyness of the gamedesigners. Just look at the facts:

Mad King Thom is a king. King of what?
He has the Ascalon crest on his cape, but he is Krytan.
He mentions skinning villagers alive in the past.

There is a pattern here, and it does hint that the Mad King had a connection with the kingdom of Ascalon, but some how became one of Tyria's most hated and feared figures. It is not unlikely that he was a deserter.

So in conclusion, Dorf Trottel, please stop turning this interesting thread into a debate about recycled art. If you want to discuss it, make your own thread, but I for one would like to follow the research of GW's background story.

He is suppose to be the Undead King of Kryta. He may have been royalty from Ascalon who left to found his own kingdom. He may have used the Ascalon royal emblem to start with for Kryta, later they changed it to a lion, although we have enver seen an emblem that refers to the later used crest.

Eratimus
12-02-2006, 17:19
This is something brought up often, but we hae yet to compare the images with the Ascalon crest and Asclaons chosen

We find the sword and shield crest on Rurik and Aldebrun among other objects

We find the Wing crest at a number of locations including Ascalon and the HoH.

The guild "Ascalon's Chosen" was/is the elite guild for the protection of Ascalon. Could the sword and shield be the Royal crest for Ascalon, and the Wing crest be the sigil for the Ascalon's Chosen? This would explain why we see it all over Ascalon aswell as in the HoH. Perhaps the wing emblems there signify that the Ascalons Chosen guild is the reigning champion up to the point that we arrive and take it over.

Thoughts?

Ascalon Royal crest
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4705/ascalonemblems0mq.th.jpg (http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascalonemblems0mq.jpg)

Ascalon's Chosen sigil
http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/3045/wingcrestemblem9fr.th.jpg (http://img490.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wingcrestemblem9fr.jpg)

zweistein
12-02-2006, 20:00
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6731/new17ah.th.jpg (http://img142.imageshack.us/my.php?image=new17ah.jpg)

Noticed it outside Serenity temple,

1st) Some text under dragon picture on botton of columbs, its also found reversed on same columb. maybe its is rotscale/glint related? ones name is the other when reversed ...

2nd) two versions of text: long version is already known, but there is short version too, so short version can be root of word while last 4 character can form suffix (from length, i suppose its adjective form of object word as in most languages, adjevtive forming adds a lot to lenght) since its temple of serenity, words "serene" and "serenity" can be considered.

3rd) two odd bug-glyphs found on bags at trader inside temple. can it be glyph for, i.e. wheat. (or maybe fried bugs are ascalonian delicatesy?)

zweistein
12-02-2006, 20:01
By now, search is quite wide. Maybe someone familiar with project could make world map where sites of all finds are noted so that we can focues on exploring other areas?

Eratimus
12-02-2006, 21:23
Wht I will do is use one of the maps and add to it a legend depedcting where each location would be for specific finds.

Zwi, anyway you can get me a closer front on view of the piller witht he dragon, I want to see the runes that are on the bottom closer.

As tot he wehat, I am not sure they are bugs. If you looke at the bag on the right you see two wehet stalks crossing. The one on fht left I think is just upside down .

As to the Dragon, which dragons do we know of. Rotscale, Glint? Bone Dragons? ANy others?

zweistein
12-02-2006, 21:39
anyway you can get me a closer front on view of the piller witht he dragon, I want to see the runes that are on the bottom closer.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5646/gw3019nl.th.jpg (http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw3019nl.jpg)

This is as good as it gets. for further inspections, its just outside serenity temple

Eratimus
12-02-2006, 22:11
Here is a map of many of the discoveries. I have not located all the location where the Janthir tablets are. If anyone knows, please feel free to respond.

http://img416.imageshack.us/img416/7031/discoverymap2bp.th.jpg (http://img416.imageshack.us/my.php?image=discoverymap2bp.jpg)

Durza the Shadeking
13-02-2006, 03:56
Hey I was doing the Iron Mines of Moladune Mission and I saw these weird Glyphs in King Ironhammers throne-room (end cut-scene cytamatic) I feel like ive seen them before.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/645/weidglyphs3el.th.jpg (http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=weidglyphs3el.jpg)

Barinthus
13-02-2006, 06:36
Hey I was doing the Iron Mines of Moladune Mission and I saw these weird Glyphs in King Ironhammers throne-room (end cut-scene cytamatic) I feel like ive seen them before.

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/645/weidglyphs3el.th.jpg (http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=weidglyphs3el.jpg)

I dont have time to make a screenie but I've seen them at Courtyard but different color. Also at Nolani mission during the bonus you go into that graveyaard, that thing is all over the place.

I suspect it's something to remember the dead heroes of the past since that guy in courtyard said something that the object with that thing is a memorial.

Will post more information tomorow

Eratimus
13-02-2006, 09:54
Yes, I would be itnerested n seeing the ohter glyphs. Strange to see similar glyph among different races.

Warison
13-02-2006, 17:32
While this may deviate from the original intent of the thread, I have a couple questions.

First please consider the following:

Each kingdom dealt with the invasion in a different way. Ascalon stood their ground, having no place else to turn. Though their forces were depleted, they managed to rally behind the Great Northern Wall. But their defense was short lived. In a magical battle that would eventually be looked upon as the turning point for Ascalon (now referred to as the Searing), the Charr brought down fire and brimstone, destroying everything on the open plain for hundreds of miles. Their magic scorched the ground and the human cities as they swept through the Wall and moved on to Orr. The surviving humans of Ascalon have since retaken the Wall and have held it against periodic attacks, but there is little left of this once-prosperous empire.

The Charr had to make their way through Ascalon before they could reach the gates of Arah. But eventually Ascalon fell, and the Charr arrived in Orr

Situated on a peninsula south of Ascalon and southwest of the Crystal Desert, Orr was a vibrant, proud, and prosperous nation.

Orr was another story. To stop the invading army, the King of Orr's personal advisor and sage turned to the powers of dark magic. Venturing into the vaults far below the marble streets of Arah, he unrolled a forbidden scroll and read the words he found printed there. The resulting explosion sank the entire peninsula and sent enough dirt into the air to blot out the sun for a hundred days. Though the Charr never reached the hallowed streets of Arah, nearly every citizen of Orr was killed that day.

The region where Orr would have been situated is not pictured on the Tyrian Continent map I suppose. Since Orr is located south of Ascalon and SW of the Crystal Desert, did the Charr just walk south of Ascalon across the Crystal Desert to defeat Orr? If so, What was happening in the desert at that time? Why is there no evidence of their passing through the desert? How long did this take? Are the catacombs in Ascalon supposedly the route the Charr took to manage a significant strike at Orr such a short time after destroying Ascalon?

Lastly, why was the Great Northern Wall built?

Durza the Shadeking
13-02-2006, 20:23
While this may deviate from the original intent of the thread, I have a couple questions.

First please consider the following:

Each kingdom dealt with the invasion in a different way. Ascalon stood their ground, having no place else to turn. Though their forces were depleted, they managed to rally behind the Great Northern Wall. But their defense was short lived. In a magical battle that would eventually be looked upon as the turning point for Ascalon (now referred to as the Searing), the Charr brought down fire and brimstone, destroying everything on the open plain for hundreds of miles. Their magic scorched the ground and the human cities as they swept through the Wall and moved on to Orr. The surviving humans of Ascalon have since retaken the Wall and have held it against periodic attacks, but there is little left of this once-prosperous empire.

The Charr had to make their way through Ascalon before they could reach the gates of Arah. But eventually Ascalon fell, and the Charr arrived in Orr

Situated on a peninsula south of Ascalon and southwest of the Crystal Desert, Orr was a vibrant, proud, and prosperous nation.

Orr was another story. To stop the invading army, the King of Orr's personal advisor and sage turned to the powers of dark magic. Venturing into the vaults far below the marble streets of Arah, he unrolled a forbidden scroll and read the words he found printed there. The resulting explosion sank the entire peninsula and sent enough dirt into the air to blot out the sun for a hundred days. Though the Charr never reached the hallowed streets of Arah, nearly every citizen of Orr was killed that day.

The region where Orr would have been situated is not pictured on the Tyrian Continent map I suppose. Since Orr is located south of Ascalon and SW of the Crystal Desert, did the Charr just walk south of Ascalon across the Crystal Desert to defeat Orr? If so, What was happening in the desert at that time? Why is there no evidence of their passing through the desert? How long did this take? Are the catacombs in Ascalon supposedly the route the Charr took to manage a significant strike at Orr such a short time after destroying Ascalon?

Lastly, why was the Great Northern Wall built?

Acctully it is. Orr is the penninsula which looks as if it is broken up into Island. The Cataclyssm happend 1 year after the searing.
And the Great Northern Wall was retook, not rebuilt. The searing didn't comepletely destroy, just broke through it. Head out frontier gate in Ascolan and head east. You see a large area of wall gone and broken.

Warison
13-02-2006, 21:51
While this may deviate from the original intent of the thread, I have a couple questions.

First please consider the following:

Each kingdom dealt with the invasion in a different way. Ascalon stood their ground, having no place else to turn. Though their forces were depleted, they managed to rally behind the Great Northern Wall. But their defense was short lived. In a magical battle that would eventually be looked upon as the turning point for Ascalon (now referred to as the Searing), the Charr brought down fire and brimstone, destroying everything on the open plain for hundreds of miles. Their magic scorched the ground and the human cities as they swept through the Wall and moved on to Orr. The surviving humans of Ascalon have since retaken the Wall and have held it against periodic attacks, but there is little left of this once-prosperous empire.

The Charr had to make their way through Ascalon before they could reach the gates of Arah. But eventually Ascalon fell, and the Charr arrived in Orr

Situated on a peninsula south of Ascalon and southwest of the Crystal Desert, Orr was a vibrant, proud, and prosperous nation.

Orr was another story. To stop the invading army, the King of Orr's personal advisor and sage turned to the powers of dark magic. Venturing into the vaults far below the marble streets of Arah, he unrolled a forbidden scroll and read the words he found printed there. The resulting explosion sank the entire peninsula and sent enough dirt into the air to blot out the sun for a hundred days. Though the Charr never reached the hallowed streets of Arah, nearly every citizen of Orr was killed that day.

The region where Orr would have been situated is not pictured on the Tyrian Continent map I suppose. Since Orr is located south of Ascalon and SW of the Crystal Desert, did the Charr just walk south of Ascalon across the Crystal Desert to defeat Orr? If so, What was happening in the desert at that time? Why is there no evidence of their passing through the desert? How long did this take? Are the catacombs in Ascalon supposedly the route the Charr took to manage a significant strike at Orr such a short time after destroying Ascalon?

Lastly, why was the Great Northern Wall built?


Except for my questions at the bottom of the page, these were excerpts from the Lore section on GW home page. If Orr was situated SW of the Crystal Desert, it would not be on our world map, at least completely. And, It would have been quite a march from Ascalon.

The GW Timeline says the Great Wall was erected on 898AE (see the story timeline). Still, what threat existed 100+ years before the Charr Invasion that such a structure was built?

teh Monkeys
13-02-2006, 22:44
Once Ascalon was a beautiful, fertile land of rolling green countryside and magnificent cities. Her people were viewed as a bit grim by their neighbours, but this was perhaps to be expected, given their never-ending war against the Charr. Indeed, it was their unfailing vigilance, their Great Northern Wall, and the blood they shed each year to defend it that had protected not only Ascalon, but also Kryta and Orr trough the ages.

Ascalon was in a 'never-ending war' with the Charr. The wall was erected to protect the homeland.

Barinthus
14-02-2006, 01:38
Yes, I would be itnerested n seeing the ohter glyphs. Strange to see similar glyph among different races.

My bad. Now that I've looked at mine closely it's not anything like those at Thunderhead Keep.

It's possible both serves similar functions although.

As for my comment about a man saying those are memorials - again I was mistaken. The warmaster at Grendich Courthouse was just reflecting back upon to those old days where he used to be bought to the courthouse for crimes.

Anyway screenies here anyway since I took time to convert those into JPEGS ;)

A close up of what I took to be a gravestone at that graveyard near Nolani Academy (during the bonus)
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/7250/gravestonenolani5hu.th.jpg (http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gravestonenolani5hu.jpg)

A snapshot of the graveyard with more of those markers.

Also, note the dragon carving on a pillar on the right side. This is Nolani Temple not Serenity Temple so you now have more than one locations where those can be found. I've began to notice similiar designs among temples whether they are in Ascalon or in Kytra which to me support the possiblity that Ascalon nation was once an empire spanning over Kytra and Orr. Someone else suggested that perhaps Lion's Arch was once the home to the King (Emperor?)'s Palace which would explain the Mad King appearance there.
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/2508/nolanigraveyard0dt.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nolanigraveyard0dt.jpg)

A snapshot of markers at Grendich Courthouse
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/5897/grendichcourthouseemblems7jl.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grendichcourthouseemblems7jl.jpg)

Barinthus
14-02-2006, 02:28
I forgot to mention this - I spotted several of those winged emblems at Surmia Temple.

I'm thinking maybe the Chosen went to the Hall of Heroes regularly and saw the emblem there and adopted it as their symbol but since they cannot replicate it exactly it's why emblems in living lands are a rough image of the original. That'd explain why I keep on noticing those at temples.

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4299/ascalonbannersumiratemple2bu.th.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascalonbannersumiratemple2bu.jpg)

Speaking of banners - I think you already have this but just in case... this was found at Iron Mines at the end at that base of the Shining Blade traitor. Is it Markis' personal banner or even Stone Summit's?

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1005/ironminesbanner5qk.th.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ironminesbanner5qk.jpg)

I spotted this banner at that place we were at for preview... I assume it's Cantha banner of sorts. Does it look similar to Elonian emblem? Does anybody else have a better screenie?

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/4587/canthabanner6da.th.jpg (http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=canthabanner6da.jpg)

Eratimus
14-02-2006, 04:51
The Winged emblem is found on an umber of locations. See the first 2 posts for details. After a while I have come to feel that it actually represents "Ascalon's Chosen" the greates guild of Ascalon. It would make since we we see it byt he Ascalon Arena, Nonali Academy, and in the HoH as it could depict they are the riegning champions or holders there.

http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/3045/wingcrestemblem9fr.th.jpg (http://img490.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wingcrestemblem9fr.jpg)

Barinthus
14-02-2006, 06:04
Yes but how do you explain the differing quality between the emblem in HoH and those found in other locations.

Eratimus
14-02-2006, 13:13
Well, the locations we see the tathered banners were where the Searing happened. Whether or not they were there before or after the searing, theyw ould sitll have gone through alot, ie wear and tear. The penant we seen in Bergen Hotspring and the Battle Isle are n rather good conditioatn as they have not been open to such harsh condiitons as a worn torn Ascalon. the HoH is a rather magical location, and I would not suspect to see alot of damage to the area. Also, as it does not see much travel as per the lore, not speaking of the repeated HoH battles we see day by day.

Eratimus
14-02-2006, 13:19
The Zaishen banner, well I suspect to be Zaishen can be seen in the Random Arena staging area of the Battle Isle. I also have it in the most recent Tyrian Heraldry image. Yes I also have that other banner which could either be the emblem of Maldune or Stone Summit, although I am not sure if it would be in a good enough condition to be Maldune. The same banner is found in a Stone Summit inabited area.

I would also be interested in seeing the other dragon representatoins you said you saw at the other temples.

Additionally, if anyone might have a screenshot of the Glint statue in the Crystal Desert, or the specific location for it, it would be a great help.

zweistein
14-02-2006, 19:52
Its me, bothering you with field research again :-)

While in Uw, i noticed some things:

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/4740/uw11zo.th.jpg (http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uw11zo.jpg)

1) There is some text next to Jhantir Symborls in abandoned temple, Runeset is hard to make out (pilar position makesi t hardto make screenshots ...)

2) There are some ornamets on begining, and weird glyph in 1st door frame you usually pass though (glyph was rotated a bit thou)

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/1955/uw25cr.th.jpg (http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=uw25cr.jpg)

Note circles and half circles on right part of picture (located at begining of UW too), and they seem to be replicated on stair steps too. They look a lot like Jhantir symbol found on ground abandoned temple.

Eratimus
14-02-2006, 20:33
Yes, these runes seem to also be present on the pillers that the Eye of Janthir is found in Shaemore of the Divinity Coast mission.

teh Monkeys
14-02-2006, 21:28
I have a question.

What do you make of this guy?

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/272/head1ov.th.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=head1ov.jpg)

It's the same creature as the one on the blue banner, in the common runes section, I believe.


1. Banner found among Charr camps depicting what looks like some sort of fierce toothed creature which could refer to Charr, or their leader, or something they worthship. These runes are found along both edges.

I doubt it's a Charr. I mean, I come across this image just about everywhere in Ascalon. On pillars, gates, buildings, banners. And all these things were made by Ascalonians. Why on earth would they make so many depictions of Charr, their worst foes?

I was thinking, maybe it's a depiction of Grenth. (Notice the skulls at the bottom, the creature's face itself appears to be a skull, it has horns.. etc.)

Or.. maybe something like the Ascalonian version of a gargoyle. (you know, the big ugly things on medieval cathedrals and churches, said to ward off evil spirits.)

Eratimus
15-02-2006, 01:34
It is also found on the base of the Fountain in Ascalon. He hs the skull neck piece like Balthazar, although the face is of a fierrce somethiong.

It would ber something common among the Ascalon as it is seen in Ascalon City, Rin, Nolani Academy, and other areas.

Scott the Green
15-02-2006, 01:51
Additionally, if anyone might have a screenshot of the Glint statue in the Crystal Desert, or the specific location for it, it would be a great help.
Ask and ye shall receive:
http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/4674/gwdragon6lj.th.jpg (http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gwdragon6lj.jpg)
edit: now with a thumbnail.

It's essentially directly south of the centre of the Elona Reach mission area, or about halfway between Seeker's Passage and the portal to Diviner's ascent, in Salt Flats.

edit again: Ignore my directions for now, I think I got mixed up. I'll run out to it and screenshot the map.

If you leave Seeker's Passage and head northwest-ish, you'll eventually come to an area where a staircase descends into a valley. The valley branches off about midway through, one way going up to where Sennet Sen (the artisan and the target of the Ancient Secrets quest) is, the the other way leading to the statue. The statue is surrounded by rockshot devourers, but you can kill them easily enough.

Final edit: As soon as I got out there I realized what I had gotten wrong. It's actually southwest from Seeker's Passage, not northwest. I circled the statue.
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/6990/gwmaptostatue2to.th.jpg (http://img108.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gwmaptostatue2to.jpg)

I forgot that I always take the teleporter to the south of Seeker's Passage to avoid a lot of the storm kin in the area, and it's northwest-ish of there.

Eratimus
15-02-2006, 02:33
Excellent, thank you.

Mookle X
15-02-2006, 03:42
I have a question.

What do you make of this guy?

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/272/head1ov.th.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=head1ov.jpg)

It's the same creature as the one on the blue banner, in the common runes section, I believe.



I doubt it's a Charr. I mean, I come across this image just about everywhere in Ascalon. On pillars, gates, buildings, banners. And all these things were made by Ascalonians. Why on earth would they make so many depictions of Charr, their worst foes?

I was thinking, maybe it's a depiction of Grenth. (Notice the skulls at the bottom, the creature's face itself appears to be a skull, it has horns.. etc.)

Or.. maybe something like the Ascalonian version of a gargoyle. (you know, the big ugly things on medieval cathedrals and churches, said to ward off evil spirits.)


This image has baffled me as well, while this may be Grenth, the reason he is all over Ascalon is unknown at this moment. Another possiblitity I came up with is that it is the lich, but that also would not make any sense.

Barinthus
15-02-2006, 03:56
I have a question.

What do you make of this guy?

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/272/head1ov.th.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=head1ov.jpg)

It's the same creature as the one on the blue banner, in the common runes section, I believe.



I doubt it's a Charr. I mean, I come across this image just about everywhere in Ascalon. On pillars, gates, buildings, banners. And all these things were made by Ascalonians. Why on earth would they make so many depictions of Charr, their worst foes?

I was thinking, maybe it's a depiction of Grenth. (Notice the skulls at the bottom, the creature's face itself appears to be a skull, it has horns.. etc.)

Or.. maybe something like the Ascalonian version of a gargoyle. (you know, the big ugly things on medieval cathedrals and churches, said to ward off evil spirits.)

The gargoyle version is possible. I believe Eratimus speculated it's an early version of Grenth.

My theory is different. Ascalons live a grim existence - a state of constant warfare with the Charrs and before that, Guild Wars. So their artwork and architecture will reflect this. Perhaps this particular design is designed to remind citizens of the danger they live in or to mock the Charr. Or even both. It often reminds me of Robert Jordan's series The Wheel of Time of one northern country that's always fighting against the Dark One's armies.

It's also seen on our planet. During the mediveal times, the architecture was often very grim especially during the time of the Black Plague. There was even a church constricted with human bones. You can find more information on that at http://www.ludd.luth.se/~silver_p/kutna.html

Barinthus
15-02-2006, 04:03
Eratimus

To be honest I'm still not satisfied with your explanation. I mean, the quality of the banners are substantially different. If banners in Ascalon were bought back from HoH, I don't think they'd look anything like they do - even with tear and wear. I say this with upmost respect for you and your wonderful work you've done so far.

I suppose we only can agree to disagree here for now.

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/5974/nolanibannercloseup8uh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/521/tombsbannerface6qu.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

teh Monkeys
15-02-2006, 12:10
I think the Ascalons simply reproduced/recreated the banners the Ascalon's Chosen took with them from the hall. Resulting in the banners we see scattered across Ascalon nowadays.

Eratimus
15-02-2006, 12:50
The gargoyle version is possible. I believe Eratimus speculated it's an early version of Grenth.

My theory is different. Ascalons live a grim existence - a state of constant warfare with the Charrs and before that, Guild Wars. So their artwork and architecture will reflect this. Perhaps this particular design is designed to remind citizens of the danger they live in or to mock the Charr. Or even both. It often reminds me of Robert Jordan's series The Wheel of Time of one northern country that's always fighting against the Dark One's armies.

It's also seen on our planet. During the mediveal times, the architecture was often very grim especially during the time of the Black Plague. There was even a church constricted with human bones. You can find more information on that at http://www.ludd.luth.se/~silver_p/kutna.html

Exce[t the carvings are part of the ruins of these location.s They are not new in post searing They were there to begin with before all this happened. Although the Post Searing Ascalon fountain wasn't there, as you can see across the water in pre searing.

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/5273/balthazarvsgrenth8mq.th.jpg (http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=balthazarvsgrenth8mq.jpg)

Barinthus
15-02-2006, 13:20
I was also referring to Pre-Searing era as well.

Note that I said
Ascalons live a grim existence - a state of constant warfare with the Charrs and before that, Guild Wars.

From the lore on the official website

Once, Ascalon was a beautiful, fertile land of rolling green countryside and magnificent cities. Her people were viewed as a bit grim by their neighbors, but this was perhaps to be expected, given their never-ending war against the Charr. Indeed, it was their unfailing vigilance, their Great Northern Wall and the blood they shed each year to defend it that had protected not only Ascalon, but also Kryta and Orr through the ages.

teh Monkeys
15-02-2006, 13:32
Exce[t the carvings are part of the ruins of these location.s They are not new in post searing They were there to begin with before all this happened. Although the Post Searing Ascalon fountain wasn't there, as you can see across the water in pre searing.

The war with the Charr didn't start with the searing. It started a lot earlier, before the Great Northern Wall was built. So it's still a possibility, I guess.

Nice work on the picture. I see a lot of resemblences to Balthazar, especially the skulls and possibly the horns. Almost everything, except for one thing. The face. It looks like a skull. And how would you explain the teeth?

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/3766/balthazar5uu.th.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=balthazar5uu.jpg)

But take a look at the statue of Balthazar. Again, the skulls seem to match Balthazar. But Balthazar is, as far as I know, always depicted as a tall, bearded man, wielding a giant sword. Not as the freakish skull creature on the carving.

I'm not saying it's not possible, I just think it's a bit odd.

zweistein
15-02-2006, 19:45
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/1372/grenthlornar3om.th.jpg (http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grenthlornar3om.jpg)

More field research!

This are glyphs from Grenths temple in lornars pass (located on side columbs). i don thing that other grenth temples have em.

Mr Panda
15-02-2006, 22:28
I have a question.

What do you make of this guy?

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/272/head1ov.th.jpg (http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=head1ov.jpg)

It's the same creature as the one on the blue banner, in the common runes section, I believe.



I doubt it's a Charr. I mean, I come across this image just about everywhere in Ascalon. On pillars, gates, buildings, banners. And all these things were made by Ascalonians. Why on earth would they make so many depictions of Charr, their worst foes?

I was thinking, maybe it's a depiction of Grenth. (Notice the skulls at the bottom, the creature's face itself appears to be a skull, it has horns.. etc.)

Or.. maybe something like the Ascalonian version of a gargoyle. (you know, the big ugly things on medieval cathedrals and churches, said to ward off evil spirits.)
This guy is something that is personally intriguing me at the moment, I noticed it's extensive use in Rin, capital of ascalon, and I cant think who it could be. It seems to be like Balthazar, but although he's god of fire and war, he's neither evil nor maelevolent (and I should stop using long word I cant spell :sad:). That image screams evil to me, and I dont have balthazar pegged as evil. Vengeful flaming sword smiting yes, but Righteous vengeful flaming sword smiting style...

I'm taking a trip to dragon's gullet tomorrow, I think there might be a link to the murals there.

I've had an idea actually...the double griffon/single face images, it's the same face, I'm sure of it.

teh Monkeys
15-02-2006, 22:34
I'm taking a trip to dragon's gullet tomorrow, I think there might be a link to the murals there.

You'll find several of these plaques scattered across Dragon's gullet. That picture was actually taken from one of the broken gates deep inside the gullet.

Barinthus
16-02-2006, 00:22
Such as this one from Dragon's Gullet.

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/5056/ascalonartihecture1de.th.jpg (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascalonartihecture1de.jpg)

Someone have theorized that maybe it was once a site of large religious center or something like that. It'd explain the presence of Charr Temple nearby - they could have just took over an Ascalon temple and used it for their own purposes.

The architecture seems Ascalon in its form and design.

Now that I think about it - you will also find several murals of gods scattered throughout the Gullet region.

Malhavoc Adhamar
16-02-2006, 01:14
When I'm next free I'll take a wander around Ascalon and see if I can gather up as many of these images as possible for comparision. Hopefully we'll be able to work out who/what is pictured in those plaques from them.

Caxixi
16-02-2006, 01:31
There were some posts by zweistein a little ways back regarding a small 'dragon' at the base of an arch. I actually have a close up of that, and another that clearly (as clearly as I could get it anyway!) shows the runes on top of this arch. These were taken in the Nolani Academy mission, just down the stairs, heading to the bonus altar. At first glance it looked more serpentine to me, but those maybe wings on the back.

http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nolaniarches017po.jpg

http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nolaniarches027lv.jpg

I am also including a close-up picture of the base of Glints statue in the desert. I originally posted this in the 6th edition, but I think it got missed as the 7th went into production.

http://img424.imageshack.us/my.php?image=glintsstatue010bw.jpg

I'm not much of an historian myself, more a freelance photographer! I love to explore the vast areas of the Guild Wars environments and have accrued a hefty folder of screen shots.

Keeping an eye out,
Caxixi

Barinthus
16-02-2006, 01:46
Your photography will be useful :)

One suggestion - print out a map of GW world and mark down where you found those stuff so we can have a geographical map of where those stuff are.

Scott the Green
16-02-2006, 02:39
Hm, the runes on the statue base look like they're mirrored from the centre. It'd be interesting to see if all the runes in the desert do that.

Barinthus
16-02-2006, 02:51
I often wonder if they actually could be translated. Perhaps someone that has lingustic training could attempt the task?

Barinthus
16-02-2006, 05:44
I'm convinced this banner is Stone Summit's.

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1005/ironminesbanner5qk.th.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ironminesbanner5qk.jpg)

My reason? Tonight I was in Grenth's Footprint which is a Stone Summit territory and my group fought a Stone Summit patrol. While battling a Summit Dark Binder I recongized a symbol on his forehead on his cap. Sure enough it's the same symbol on that banner.

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7788/stonesummitsymbol6qd.th.jpg (http://img295.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stonesummitsymbol6qd.jpg)

On the other hand to be fair, I was not able to detect anything similar on other Summit troops. I will try to examine Summit leaders more closely at my next opportunity and it's possible Summit weapon drops will have the symbol as well.

We still need an expedition into those Iron Mines to make sure. Who knows, it could be Moldune's symbol and stone summit merely adopted it as their own.

P.S. Ignore the frog :) in my quirky mood I put it there LoL

Scott the Green
16-02-2006, 06:27
Speaking of mysterious banners, has anybody ever seen or identified this one?
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/5674/gwmysterybanner8md.th.jpg (http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gwmysterybanner8md.jpg)

The screenshot was taken just north of Ventari's Refuge in Ettin's Back, and there were two groups of 3 buildings, with 2 banners per group of buildings.

Personally I think they're the maguuma centaur banner, but I have no evidence of that. I figured by the process of elimination that it wasn't the Shining Blade or White Mantle banner, and there's only one intelligent race native to the jungle. We know the centaurs have united against the humans in their lands, so could this be their banner?

My apologies if I'm posting old news.

Also, I started on a little side project to catalogue all the different types of housing in the jungle, and when I start to draw conclusions I'll put up a post. Unless somebody already did it.

terakhan
16-02-2006, 09:56
Now, keep in mind I am not drawing any conclusions, but I thought I would share something I noticed while roaming and taking screenshots (dang is this project addicting to think about):
http://www.geocities.com/guildwarsrunner/grenthtemple_saltflats_archcomparison.JPG

Dang jpeg compressions. Anyway, I was wandering through the desert just south of Seekers when I ran into this bottom archway, and decided to screen it for notes later.

Then tonight, as I started wandering in the Shiverpeaks, I decided to check out Grenth's temple up there. As I was remembering another thread talking about the Mursaat and the temples, I noticed the circled carving on the top archway. It really lacks the detail of the other, but it seemed interesting that the two would be similar in shape and placement on the archway (meaning, one carving down from the top carving on each side).

Eratimus
16-02-2006, 11:24
Such as this one from Dragon's Gullet.

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/5056/ascalonartihecture1de.th.jpg (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascalonartihecture1de.jpg)

Someone have theorized that maybe it was once a site of large religious center or something like that. It'd explain the presence of Charr Temple nearby - they could have just took over an Ascalon temple and used it for their own purposes.

The architecture seems Ascalon in its form and design.

Now that I think about it - you will also find several murals of gods scattered throughout the Gullet region.


This guy is something that is personally intriguing me at the moment, I noticed it's extensive use in Rin, capital of ascalon, and I cant think who it could be. It seems to be like Balthazar, but although he's god of fire and war, he's neither evil nor maelevolent (and I should stop using long word I cant spell ). That image screams evil to me, and I dont have balthazar pegged as evil. Vengeful flaming sword smiting yes, but Righteous vengeful flaming sword smiting style...

I'm taking a trip to dragon's gullet tomorrow, I think there might be a link to the murals there.

I've had an idea actually...the double griffon/single face images, it's the same face, I'm sure of it.

Actually, I know which one yoru talkign about. There are two banners, the one witht he bear like face with the 4 wings, and the one with the same evil looking face. They are different.

What led me onto that being Balthazar is the similarity to the Balthazar murals.

The Carving is found on the base of the Ascalon fountain, on a banner with Common runes, on pillers in Ruins of Surmia, Rin, Nolani Academy, generaly below what is thought to be the head of King Doric.

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/5273/balthazarvsgrenth8mq.th.jpg (http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=balthazarvsgrenth8mq.jpg)

LEFT: Balthazar Mural MIDDLE: Carving RIGHT: Grenth Mural

BTW I would like to join you in the trek as I want to check out the Flame Temple and Gullet again.


Such as this one from Dragon's Gullet.



Someone have theorized that maybe it was once a site of large religious center or something like that. It'd explain the presence of Charr Temple nearby - they could have just took over an Ascalon temple and used it for their own purposes.

The architecture seems Ascalon in its form and design.

Now that I think about it - you will also find several murals of gods scattered throughout the Gullet regio

Yes, that is Ascalon architecture which most likely was destroyed int he Searing and taken over by the Charr. You see the same architecture everywhere in the Kingdom.


I'm not much of an historian myself, more a freelance photographer! I love to explore the vast areas of the Guild Wars environments and have accrued a hefty folder of screen shots.

We do welcome Field Photographers as part of the TAOS, as many discoveries can come from interesting snapshots found. Plus, having one alot on an expedition to document the findings is always helpfull. Send me an email Caxixi if your interested eratimus@gmail.com


I am also including a close-up picture of the base of Glints statue in the desert. I originally posted this in the 6th edition, but I think it got missed as the 7th went into production.

I have tried some indepth translations of the Heiroglyph we see, whcih I have come to connect as the Forgotten language, but as many are too blurry, the translations, when using Equiptian alphabets dont work, nor is there a reference so far as to what it may mean. But, I am always on the look out for clues.


I'm convinced this banner is Stone Summit's.

Yes, I have come to the same conclusion, although we do see the banner in the Maldune fort where Markis is, so that is what is holding me back. Unless of course the Stone Summit use to inhabit it and that was left behind.


Speaking of mysterious banners, has anybody ever seen or identified this one?


The screenshot was taken just north of Ventari's Refuge in Ettin's Back, and there were two groups of 3 buildings, with 2 banners per group of buildings.

Personally I think they're the maguuma centaur banner, but I have no evidence of that. I figured by the process of elimination that it wasn't the Shining Blade or White Mantle banner, and there's only one intelligent race native to the jungle. We know the centaurs have united against the humans in their lands, so could this be their banner?

My apologies if I'm posting old news.

Also, I started on a little side project to catalogue all the different types of housing in the jungle, and when I start to draw conclusions I'll put up a post. Unless somebody already did it.

This is a new find as far as I know, good work. It oculd be a number of things, it could even be the remnance of the emblem corresponding to the Druids who had left the Jungle a decade ago.or perhaps Ventari himself. What we need to do is see if that emblem is seeing anywhere else, noting what is around it at the time.

I will add it to the Heraldry as an unknown right now.

Eratimus
16-02-2006, 11:32
After seeing the Stone Summit image Scott, I think your on to something, EITHER they took the Maldune symbol, OR that IS Stone Summit. Do we know exactly who the Maldune were? Perhaps a GWPS research project could be done?


Now, keep in mind I am not drawing any conclusions, but I thought I would share something I noticed while roaming and taking screenshots (dang is this project addicting to think about):


Dang jpeg compressions. Anyway, I was wandering through the desert just south of Seekers when I ran into this bottom archway, and decided to screen it for notes later.

Then tonight, as I started wandering in the Shiverpeaks, I decided to check out Grenth's temple up there. As I was remembering another thread talking about the Mursaat and the temples, I noticed the circled carving on the top archway. It really lacks the detail of the other, but it seemed interesting that the two would be similar in shape and placement on the archway (meaning, one carving down from the top carving on each side).
Reply With Quote

The bottom arch is the one suspected to be constructed by the Ascalons, see "The Lost Ascalon Trek" article I wrote. The image is thought to be that of a griffon. The top one, while is int he same orientation, may be depicting a dragon?

teh Monkeys
16-02-2006, 15:09
Such as this one from Dragon's Gullet.

*removed picture due to some freaky 4-picture-per-post-limit.*

Someone have theorized that maybe it was once a site of large religious center or something like that.


I agree. I went to the gullet a few days ago, just to explore and what I found was

A: Paintings and reference to some of the old gods.

http://img415.imageshack.us/img415/8985/gods6he.th.jpg (http://img415.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gods6he.jpg)

B: Something else that intrigued me: This strange stone circle.

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/9518/stonecircle12di.th.jpg (http://img356.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stonecircle12di.jpg)

I'm not exactly sure what it is, but I think it's pretty safe to say it's manmade, even Ascalonian. That's all I can say for certain. I'm thinking it was a site of some religious importance. However, there are no runes to be found in the circle, no other buildings, statues.. nothing. Just these 3 lone pillars, so I can't back it up much, really.

Here's an upclose view of one of the pillars. It looks like the fronts of the pillars have either collapsed or been destroyed in the searing.

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/9333/stonepillar2bn.th.jpg (http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stonepillar2bn.jpg)

Oh and then there's this..

http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/925/gate13ng.th.jpg (http://img418.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gate13ng.jpg)

Depictions of the unkown creature, yet again. They can be found mainly on gates troughout the gullet. (Though I've seen them on pillars and buildings inside the flame temple corridor aswell.)

zweistein
16-02-2006, 15:16
http://img418.imageshack.us/img418/925/gate13ng.th.jpg (http://img418.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gate13ng.jpg)

Depictions of the unkown creature, yet again. They can be found mainly on gates troughout the gullet. (Though I've seen them on pillars and buildings inside the flame temple corridor aswell.)

Gates with same exact symbols can be found in underworld ... (check out one of my earlier posts ...)

Vit
16-02-2006, 15:53
This image has baffled me as well, while this may be Grenth, the reason he is all over Ascalon is unknown at this moment. Another possiblitity I came up with is that it is the lich, but that also would not make any sense.

I believe that is a grawl...

http://img497.imageshack.us/img497/8163/grawl6rd.th.jpg (http://img497.imageshack.us/my.php?image=grawl6rd.jpg)

Notice the similarity in nasal structure and the simian-like cranial features? specifically around the forehead and the nose...also, the dental structure seems to be strikingly similar as well...

Just a guess....I'm not nearly as good a detective as you guys, so, good luck figuring this one...hehe

Btw, you guys are doing an EXCELLENT job with your research. I mean, it's living proof that there really IS so much more to the PvE experience. People just need to look beyond the surface...Thank you for being our visual vehicle and showing us what's beyond the surface.

Barinthus
17-02-2006, 03:48
After seeing the Stone Summit image Scott, I think your on to something, EITHER they took the Maldune symbol, OR that IS Stone Summit. Do we know exactly who the Maldune were? Perhaps a GWPS research project could be done?

Amen, actually that was me.

Anyway is it me but is the design on the arch on that 4th picture teh Monkeys posted different from similar arches in other locations which usually depict griffins?

EDIT: Going through my screenies, I have found one with the exact same design (faces and arch) in UW. I can post it if you want.

Pictures that terakhan posted only deepens my conviction that Ascalons copied design they encountered in UW & HoH

Vih - grawls? Possible but I still go with Charrs since Ascalons seem to consider grawls an insignificant threat and was surprised at their sudden boldness right before the Searing.

As for that banner in Ettin's Back - I've noticed it as well. At first I wondered perhaps it's centaurs' but this was found next to couple of teepees - seems a tad too small for centaurs to me. Or perhaps it's merely a shelter to sleep for centaurs?

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6594/ettinbanner0lp.th.jpg (http://img112.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ettinbanner0lp.jpg)


Ok I havn't read the whole thread so I apologise if it's been mentioned,

but if you look at the banners just outside of Lion's Arch (take a left and head over the bridge) they look like they are depicting the Seer - strange since the white mantle are allied with the mursaat and the seer is their enemy (from what I can tell anyways).

Curious


I don't see anything there. Is it near D'Alessio area?

Eratimus - regarding Ascalon emblems. I hate to complicate the matters even further. But check this out.

This is a quest in FoW for unholy texts...
http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/5651/fowquestclose2qm.th.jpg (http://img47.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fowquestclose2qm.jpg)

And this is the text I retrieved for the quest... check out the front cover. What is going on?
http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/3374/unholytextfowclose7mj.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unholytextfowclose7mj.jpg)

Perhaps we are better off not worrying about UW/FoW connections for now? After all Quintus has suggested perhaps those realms merely mirror GW World?

Durza the Shadeking
17-02-2006, 04:54
Look what I found in Ashford Abbey (pre-sear). It's Balthazar!
http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/4479/balthazar9co.th.jpg (http://img112.imageshack.us/my.php?image=balthazar9co.jpg)

teh Monkeys
17-02-2006, 17:52
I came across heaps of the same images inside the catacombs aswell. (again, pillars and gates)

I don't really know why I havn't seen this before, but when I stepped inside the catacombs, I saw a strange mural near the entrance. I took some screenshots and went deeper inside the catacombs to try and find more of them. I didn't find any, but the closest thing I found were these strange gargoyle like statues. Maybe they're connected with eachother somehow, I don't know. Maybe they're connected to the massive bone-pit found deeper inside the catacombs.

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/3231/gargoyles1rx.th.jpg (http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gargoyles1rx.jpg)

Now, for some more annoying questions. :D

What the hell is this thing? There seems to be a face carved on all four corners, but who or what is it? - also found inside the catacombs.

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4563/wtfstatue9lq.th.jpg (http://img125.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wtfstatue9lq.jpg)

Now, when I exited the catacombs, I ended up near Barradin's Estate, so I figured I might aswell go there. On my way there I came across some statues. And they look like... griffons. (Ok, except for the wings.)

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/5900/griffons3ru.th.jpg (http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=griffons3ru.jpg)

Don't know if this has been posted before, just figured I'd share my thoughts/findings with you guys.

Edit:

Heh, one more thing, before I forget. :p

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3360/dredgerunes7xq.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dredgerunes7xq.jpg)

These Dredges seem to be wearing runes on their armor. Any idea what kind they are?

Barinthus
17-02-2006, 19:51
LoL

You read my mind, Teh Monkey, yet once again!

I was questing in Sorrow's Furance and noted runes on Moradin (i probably got his name wrong, one of Dredges) and took screenies - was planning to post those.

I wanted to ask Eratimus if he recongized those since he seems to be our expert on runes.

As for griffins - they are practically everywhere. I've seen them at Sumira ruins as well.

teh Monkeys
17-02-2006, 19:55
Actually, you should post em. The quality of my pic looks like crap on a stick. :x

Eratimus
18-02-2006, 10:27
Depictions of the unkown creature, yet again. They can be found mainly on gates troughout the gullet. (Though I've seen them on pillars and buildings inside the flame temple corridor aswell.)

As the same image is seen on fountain bases and other Ascalon specific locatins I still believe it to be a depiction of Balthazar, consideirng the arrangement of the skulls. Three of us visited Dragons Gulch and still come to the same conculsion.


As for that banner in Ettin's Back - I've noticed it as well. At first I wondered perhaps it's centaurs' but this was found next to couple of teepees - seems a tad too small for centaurs to me. Or perhaps it's merely a shelter to sleep for centaurs?


IF we can directly link those tents to the Centaurs, I think it would be safe to point that banner to the Centaurs. And if it is the Centaurs, would it be them in general or a specific tribe?


I don't really know why I havn't seen this before, but when I stepped inside the catacombs, I saw a strange mural near the entrance. I took some screenshots and went deeper inside the catacombs to try and find more of them. I didn't find any, but the closest thing I found were these strange gargoyle like statues. Maybe they're connected with eachother somehow, I don't know. Maybe they're connected to the massive bone-pit found deeper inside the catacombs.


monkey, could you get me a closer image of the arch metal bars at the top>?


What the hell is this thing? There seems to be a face carved on all four corners, but who or what is it? - also found inside the catacombs.

Where exactly was it found?


Now, when I exited the catacombs, I ended up near Barradin's Estate, so I figured I might aswell go there. On my way there I came across some statues. And they look like... griffons. (Ok, except for the wings.)

Yes, those are the same griffons that are around Ascalon. I think the gold engravings area ctually an artisit prepresentation of the wings, insead of spreading them ut far.


These Dredges seem to be wearing runes on their armor. Any idea what kind they are?

Doyou think you could get me a complete SS record of all the runes? These are ones I have not documented yet. I suspect it is a dredge magic or language.

teh Monkeys
18-02-2006, 10:51
monkey, could you get me a closer image of the arch metal bars at the top>?

I take it you mean this bit..

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7638/arch6us.th.jpg (http://img132.imageshack.us/my.php?image=arch6us.jpg)

Can't zoom in more without blurring it too much.


Where exactly was it found?

If you take the quest from necromancer munne.. think it's called the necromancer's novice, she'll lead you to a big room with a mural of Grenth on one of the walls. The object can be found well, next to munne actually.


Doyou think you could get me a complete SS record of all the runes? These are ones I have not documented yet. I suspect it is a dredge magic or language.

Pfff.. well I think I'll head back to the furnace anyway in a day or so, because I want to try and get some more lore out of High Priest Alkar.. so I'll see what I can do when I'm there.

Barinthus
21-02-2006, 00:37
Ok I'm back! :)

Here's my pictures of Molenin, a Dredge shaman. Note that while he have strips of runes attached to him, he does have some rune-like drawings painted on his clothes.

Eratimus, let me know if those are not good enough to get everything. The guy kept on moving and I had two other teammates waiting for me so I had to hurry.

I end up not finishing the quest (error 7 the second before I was about to talk to the guy to complete the quest, grrr) so I definitely have to go back there so I don't mind taking more pictures. Will try to see if I can find similar markings on other Dredges. If so and if I find those on enslaved Dredges, perhaps it's Stone Summit runes of binding?

Anyway here are the pictures

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/2420/molenincloseup4sp.th.jpg (http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=molenincloseup4sp.jpg)
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/5014/molenin2closeup3lz.th.jpg (http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=molenin2closeup3lz.jpg)
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/1046/molenin3closeup2bd.th.jpg (http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=molenin3closeup2bd.jpg)
http://img322.imageshack.us/img322/1865/molenin4closeup2un.th.jpg (http://img322.imageshack.us/my.php?image=molenin4closeup2un.jpg)

teh Monkeys
21-02-2006, 10:07
Dredge shamans use the same model. They have the same runes on them.

Heh, forgot to post the pictures on this forum.

http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dr...manrunes4yd.jpg

http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=d...scloseup7xu.jpg

terakhan
21-02-2006, 14:06
Got some more for you folks to ponder:
http://www.geocities.com/guildwarsrunner/GT_BT_rune_comparison.JPG
As I noted in the picture, the left image is from the Lornar's Pass Temple of Grenth, and the right is the Heroes' Ascent Temple of Balthazar. The right image is actually rotated 180 degrees from how it is mounted in the temple, but as someone who has spent countless hours working on levels for FPS games, I kinda learned to recognize when I am looking at a rotated texture.

What really caught my eye is the fact that the rune sets are the same except for the 3rd one down. I did my best to duplicate them in the center so it was easier to compare them.

Also, in case anyone was curious if there were any runes to be had there, here is the bloodstone, as lit up by a fresh sacrifice:
http://www.geocities.com/guildwarsrunner/bloodstone_after_a_sacrifice.JPG

And my final contribution for today:
http://www.geocities.com/guildwarsrunner/ascension_runes.JPG
Here we have the glowing runes carved all over the place in the desert, with the 3 stones you have to step on to enter the mesa. In the set, we have 2 runes that are not used for entry at all.

Barinthus
21-02-2006, 16:20
Monkey - your links didn't come up anything for me?

Mmmm the design on the bloodstone is the same one at the place where you battle the Lich. I suppose all bloodstones have that design.

teh Monkeys
21-02-2006, 16:30
Monkey - your links didn't come up anything for me?

Odd.. I'll rehost 'em.

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8726/dredgeshamanrunes3zz.th.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dredgeshamanrunes3zz.jpg)

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/613/dredgeshamanrunescloseup4lk.th.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dredgeshamanrunescloseup4lk.jpg)

terakhan
21-02-2006, 23:21
Okay, I am writing it off as being tired when I 'noticed' it. Looking at the grenth/balthazar runes again, I realize there is no difference except for coloration and texture on the stone, as well as quality and distance. So please ignore that pic.

Barinthus
22-02-2006, 04:20
Thanks, teh Monkeys :)

Aw, terakhan - I was hoping that somehow you found Grenth and Balthzar's names in runes. First few symbols being "Temple of Great God" then name.

Durza the Shadeking
23-02-2006, 23:58
Hey Guys I popped in my old Beta Disk, and look what I found, exactly like the Charr on the Tombs Mural. Do you think that It shows part of the Flameseeker Prophecy?
http://images5.pictiger.com/thumbs/16/72a8b40f061d4e52f24f69df2a35e416.th.jpg (http://server5.pictiger.com/img/75483/picture-hosting/untitled.php)

Barinthus
24-02-2006, 00:15
Awesome. I wish they didn't change Tombs so I could check it out lol

It's possible although.

Eratimus - I found one other location where I found what I take to be Stone Summit Banners. From the War Camp if you look down one side, you will see a corral of those working beasts along with two banners.

It makes sense to me. The area was Stone Summit's until good guys managed to retake the point to use as a base to strike at Sorrow's Furance.

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/2972/summitbanner3fo.th.jpg (http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=summitbanner3fo.jpg)

Eratimus
24-02-2006, 07:53
Awesome. I wish they didn't change Tombs so I could check it out lol

It's possible although.

Eratimus - I found one other location where I found what I take to be Stone Summit Banners. From the War Camp if you look down one side, you will see a corral of those working beasts along with two banners.

It makes sense to me. The area was Stone Summit's until good guys managed to retake the point to use as a base to strike at Sorrow's Furance.

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/2972/summitbanner3fo.th.jpg (http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=summitbanner3fo.jpg)

Excellent, then if it is the general concensus of most people, I would like to establish that the banner is the Stone Stummit guild. Branthus, would you be willing to write soemthing up, describing this such, bring into the proof to support hte claim? I would like ot add it to the Stone Summit part of the Tyrian Heraldry.

Thank you guys for the Dredge runes. I wll compile them together when I gain the time soon.


As I noted in the picture, the left image is from the Lornar's Pass Temple of Grenth, and the right is the Heroes' Ascent Temple of Balthazar. The right image is actually rotated 180 degrees from how it is mounted in the temple, but as someone who has spent countless hours working on levels for FPS games, I kinda learned to recognize when I am looking at a rotated texture.

What really caught my eye is the fact that the rune sets are the same except for the 3rd one down. I did my best to duplicate them in the center so it was easier to compare them.

Good eye. Perhaps you were onto something. They may not be different as you though, but it could also tell us something. Could the runes actually be saying something simple like, "Temple", or "God Temple" or something with a similar idea.

Regarding the banner in the Maguuma jungle, any headway as to finding it anywhere else to help establish who the banner belongs to?

Scott the Green
24-02-2006, 20:07
Regarding the banner in the Maguuma jungle, any headway as to finding it anywhere else to help establish who the banner belongs to?
I haven't had any time to play lately, but I'm on Spring break now, so I'll be able to explore a bit.

I think the best chance of seeing if the Maguuma banner belongs to the centaurs is to do the bonus for The Wilds and really look at the area. I'll try to plan an expedition and see if anyone wants to tag along.

I'm thinking Sunday evening/afternoon, anybody have a preferred time?

Barinthus
24-02-2006, 22:40
I haven't had any time to play lately, but I'm on Spring break now, so I'll be able to explore a bit.

I think the best chance of seeing if the Maguuma banner belongs to the centaurs is to do the bonus for The Wilds and really look at the area. I'll try to plan an expedition and see if anyone wants to tag along.

I'm thinking Sunday evening/afternoon, anybody have a preferred time?

Actually that's a very good idea. If I'm on - I'll tag along. Sarak Layghlin - add me to ur list since I may be on as some other character. I have a ranger and a necro which can access that particular area.

Eratimus - will write up something on the other forum. First I want to do some background research for fact-checking. Should have something for you before Monday.

Vit
27-02-2006, 06:59
I remember a while ago, someone asked for the runes to the Tablets of Janthir at the Divinity Coast...I'm not sure if anyone got them or not, but here's what I found:

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5025/runesonjanthirtablet2lh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2469/janthirtabletwisdom5hw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Maybe there are some runes here that can help discern the alphabet. Also, for the tablets I found in the area, these are what the scriptures read...according to the game.

Eratimus
27-02-2006, 17:19
I remember a while ago, someone asked for the runes to the Tablets of Janthir at the Divinity Coast...I'm not sure if anyone got them or not, but here's what I found:

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/5025/runesonjanthirtablet2lh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/2469/janthirtabletwisdom5hw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Maybe there are some runes here that can help discern the alphabet. Also, for the tablets I found in the area, these are what the scriptures read...according to the game.

Excellent thank you. This will help a lot.