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Zero RoGuE
22-02-2006, 21:39
Hey I finaly got around to remakeing the orr continent.(before the Catacysm)

I took the in game map and did some editing and came up with this.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7683/orr7zt.th.jpg (http://img59.imageshack.us/my.php?image=orr7zt.jpg)

Now...where whould orr be?

Quintus Antonius
22-02-2006, 22:09
Because of the nature of the crater, and the surrounding blast pocks that let the water flow into the crater, I would say Orr is dead center of that peninsula.

Well, techinically, Orr is the entire peninsula. Arah would be dead-center.

Barinthus
22-02-2006, 23:23
I concur with Quintus here

EliteMongoose
23-02-2006, 02:53
Sorry to sound like a noob here, but what's the cataclysm? I'm guessing that Zero mispelled it, but it may be catacysm. Also, can someone explain what arrah is? I know it's the center of the island chain thing off of the desert peninsula, but what is it?

Scott the Green
23-02-2006, 05:00
Arah was the capital of Orr, and was a centre of divine power on Tyria. When the charr attacked Orr, Vizier Khilbron descended into the forbidden temples beneath the city and found forbidden magics there. By wielding the magic against the charr, he repelled them but also destroyed the entire peninsula, and the country of Orr with it.

Arah is linked to a lot of legends, but I don't have my booklet onhand and am typing from memory here. I might be significantly wrong about everything.

Stardrake
23-02-2006, 05:30
I believe is used to be the city of the gods - it was where King Doric journeyed to request that the gift of magic be withdrawn (which led to the creation and shattering of the Bloodstones, splitting the four magic types that are seen in Chapter 1).

I'm not sure if there's anything in the lore about when the city was settled by humans and whether humans and gods ever cohabited or whether humans simply took over after the Gods left.

EliteMongoose
23-02-2006, 06:34
Cool. Thanks guys.

Barinthus
23-02-2006, 06:43
From the official website

The Kingdom of Orr

Situated on a peninsula south of Ascalon and southwest of the Crystal Desert, Orr was a vibrant, proud, and prosperous nation. Its citizens were the favored of the gods, living in the shadows of Arah, the deserted city once inhabited by the likes of Melandru, Dwayna, and Balthazar. Deeply spiritual, the Orrians looked after the buildings and structures left behind when the gods left Tyria, caring for them in the hopes that one day, the divine beings who created magic and bestowed it upon the world would return.

The Orrians were a peaceful people, hoping only to do their duty toward their gods and content to be rewarded in either this life or the next. When the guilds began feuding, Orr as a nation tried to stay out of the conflict. This was not the sort of struggle that entire kingdoms got involved in. But when the strife overflowed into armed conflict, and guilds from the other human nations began fighting in the streets of Arah, Orr rose to defend itself and the city of the gods.

Soon after Orr mobilized its armies, Kryta and Ascalon did as well, and what had started as a dispute between localized groups became an all-out war. The Guild Wars raged for nearly fifty years. During that time, none of the three human empires was able to assert dominance over either of the other two. While Ascalon, Orr, and Kryta were busy fighting with each other, they became blind to the threat from the north—the Charr. The northern beasts swept in, taking Ascalon in a spectacular magical battle.

At first, Orr was saved from much of the fighting. The guilds with allegiances to Ascalon and Kryta withdrew, heading back to defend their homes. Orr regrouped, granted a moment to prepare simply because they were farther south. The Charr had to make their way through Ascalon before they could reach the gates of Arah. But eventually Ascalon fell, and the Charr arrived in Orr.

Hopes were high that the Charr would be defeated quickly. The Orrian army was the equal of any in Tyria, and the invaders had already fought a long battle against the Ascalons. But those hopes were dashed in less than twelve hours.

The invaders reached the gates of Arah without breaking stride. The Orrians failed to protect their charge. With defeat at the doorstep and the kingdom nearly in ruins, one man turned to a forbidden magic. The king’s own personal advisor in the matters of the arcane took it upon himself to destroy the invaders, no matter the cost. Unrolling one of the Lost Scrolls, kept inside a warded vault deep within the catacombs below Arah, he spoke the words of a litany that spelled the end of the Kingdom of Orr forever.

There are few who survived that day, now known as the Cataclysm. While the Charr were never allowed to step foot in Arah, few count what the king’s advisor did on that day as a victory. The resulting explosion felled the invading army where it stood, but so too did it sink the entire peninsula, leaving only a scattering of small islands in its place. The beautiful city of Arah was consumed. What’s left above water now lies in a pile of ruins, blackened by the Cataclysm and years of neglect. All that remains in the wreckage of Orr are the wandering dead—those souls unable to rest in the shadow of this great disaster.

EliteMongoose
23-02-2006, 09:22
From the official website
Interesting read. Thanks for posting.

Mookle X
24-02-2006, 01:45
Nice map, but I think Orr would probably look more like pre searing ascalon then a desert. My theory that I just came up with is that the "ancient weapon" housed the scroll that the Vizier read from and blasted Orr from the face of the planet and made the Crystal Desert, well, Desert.

Zero RoGuE
25-02-2006, 07:32
Nice map, but I think Orr would probably look more like pre searing ascalon then a desert. My theory that I just came up with is that the "ancient weapon" housed the scroll that the Vizier read from and blasted Orr from the face of the planet and made the Crystal Desert, well, Desert.

no the desert was alrdy a desert at the time of the Cataclysm(the desert was made for the forgotten as a haven that humans cant live in.)

But you did give me a thought...the forbidden spell...could it have been the searing spell?(yeah long shot but its a thought..)

I also agree Quintus, heres were I think orr would be.
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/3314/orr24tk.th.jpg (http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=orr24tk.jpg)

as for the look we dont have mutch to go on...only one peice of concept art(from gw website). (if anyone has the origonal pic id like to see it)
http://www.guildwars.com/images/spotimages/orr.jpg

Quintus Antonius
25-02-2006, 17:09
no the desert was alrdy a desert at the time of the Cataclysm(the desert was made for the forgotten as a haven that humans cant live in.)

But you did give me a thought...the forbidden spell...could it have been the searing spell?(yeah long shot but its a thought..)

I also agree Quintus, heres were I think orr would be.
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/3314/orr24tk.th.jpg (http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=orr24tk.jpg)

as for the look we dont have mutch to go on...only one peice of concept art(from gw website). (if anyone has the origonal pic id like to see it)
http://www.guildwars.com/images/spotimages/orr.jpg

I don't think it was a Searing spell. The Searing caused gigantic crystals to fall from the sky, it also vaporized the residence of Ascalon, and dried up the water. The tar we see in Ascalon where water should be is actually runoff of the vaporized people, plant life, and animals of Ascalon.

However, in Orr, it seems all he really did was unleash a massive nuking spell.

There are more pictures of Orr in the Art of Guild Wars book and also in the Guild Wars Manuscripts that came with the game.

Zero RoGuE
25-02-2006, 19:40
I don't think it was a Searing spell. The Searing caused gigantic crystals to fall from the sky, it also vaporized the residence of Ascalon, and dried up the water. The tar we see in Ascalon where water should be is actually runoff of the vaporized people, plant life, and animals of Ascalon.

However, in Orr, it seems all he really did was unleash a massive nuking spell.

There are more pictures of Orr in the Art of Guild Wars book and also in the Guild Wars Manuscripts that came with the game.
yeah like i said it was a longshot. but i think there may be a some conection to it..

Yeah i know about those but 1) i dont got the art of Guild Wars(I should have got the SE :duh:) 2)the Manual's pic is still too small to see in detail...

Arkhan The Black
26-02-2006, 03:42
I believe what Vizier Khilbron did was unleashing a spell that sacrificed everything in Orr and turned him in to the Lich. Maybe he saw promises of godlike powers in the scrolls in the forbidden area.

Whatever it was that destroyed Orr must have been like a nuclear explosion, burning everything with a bright light and the skies was darkened with ashes since there is no vegetation left in the area.

What happened Orr was a far worse fate then Ascalon.

Quintus Antonius
26-02-2006, 04:02
I believe what Vizier Khilbron did was unleashing a spell that sacrificed everything in Orr and turned him in to the Lich. Maybe he saw promises of godlike powers in the scrolls in the forbidden area.

Whatever it was that destroyed Orr must have been like a nuclear explosion, burning everything with a bright light and the skies was darkened with ashes since there is no vegetation left in the area.

What happened Orr was a far worse fate then Ascalon.

I agree. Ascalon had survivors, everyone in Orr became the walking dead.

I think there is a moral lesson there somewhere. Sometimes the things we do to ourselves to avoid pain are worse than the pain itself.

Aladar
26-02-2006, 19:58
Actually, I recall reading a piece of lore that said the Cataclysm caused part (or most) of Orr to be sunken underwater. If that is the case, wouldn't Orr look something like this:
http://img492.imageshack.us/img492/286/orrmap1jv.th.jpg (http://img492.imageshack.us/my.php?image=orrmap1jv.jpg)

I believe that Orr stretched much farther than just being a peninsula near the Crystal desert. From what I remember, the Orrians were fearing an attack from the Charr, which is why Vizier Khilbron used the 'sacred scrolls' to cause the Cataclysm. The Charr, from what we've seen, are not seafaring creatures. They would probably have no idea how to cross a sea or even a large lake if they were presented with it.

After reading through the lore again, it does note Orr as being a peninsula. That still leaves me with this: how did the Charr cross the water? In the Northlands, there were no lakes or seas to speak of according to our maps, besides perhaps the large body of water north of Kryta, which name escapes me at the moment (Giant's Basin?). I still stick by the theory that Orr extended much farther than the little lore about it claims. Wether or not it stretched as far inland as my map, though, is unknown as of now.

theEnhance
26-02-2006, 21:34
when did the crystal desert dry up?

If you put the water back in the desert, Orr could possibly be considered a peninsula.

(I may be completely wrong if the desert dried up a long time before Orr.. sorry, but I cant seem to find out when the desert dried up as of now)

Quintus Antonius
26-02-2006, 22:18
when did the crystal desert dry up?

If you put the water back in the desert, Orr could possibly be considered a peninsula.

(I may be completely wrong if the desert dried up a long time before Orr.. sorry, but I cant seem to find out when the desert dried up as of now)

Alright, Eratimus has addressed this before, as have I. The Desert drying up and the events of the Searing and Cataclysm are completely unrelated, as they happened thousands of years apart.

The Cataclysm, which only happened a year before when we start the game post-Searing, happens a year after the events of the Searing, or a year after pre-Searing.

Also, Amnoon Oasis was already a bustling seaport by the time we arrive there with Vizer Kilbron, that means the waterway to the Sea of Sorrows (formly known as the Bay of Sirens) was already in existance.

We don't know how the Charr reached Orr, we only know they did. To assume they don't have boats is a long stretch. They may have stolen boats, or summoned them, such as how Kilbron did. Even more likely, they might have simply walked.

Arkhan The Black
26-02-2006, 23:11
The Charr's probably just marched through Ascalon and across the mountains to reach Orr. Charr's would probably also understand the basics of sailing as well. They also sent of their most formidable generals to the other human kingdoms. This would also explain why there is not many skilled Charrís left of the invasion force.

theEnhance
26-02-2006, 23:27
Alright, Eratimus has addressed this before, as have I. The Desert drying up and the events of the Searing and Cataclysm are completely unrelated, as they happened thousands of years apart.

sorry I think you may have misunderstood me -

Aladar had but one doubt about his proposal: the charr may not have crossed waters. If they didn't, then Orr would not be considered a peninsula.

I was proposing that maybe it was considered a peninsula because the desert was still underwater, if Orr existed before the desert dried up.

Quintus Antonius
26-02-2006, 23:31
sorry I think you may have misunderstood me -

Aladar had but one doubt about his proposal: the charr may not have crossed waters. If they didn't, then Orr would not be considered a peninsula.

I was proposing that maybe it was considered a peninsula because the desert was still underwater, if Orr existed before the desert dried up.

I apologize for any misunderstanding on my part.

However, Orr, as it currently is, fits the definition of a peninsula just fine. I don't see any real reason to think it meant anything else.

We don't know if the Charr had problems crossing the water, they might have done it fine.

Aladar
27-02-2006, 01:18
The reason I bring the Charr ability to traverse bodies of water is because, from the topography that they're used to, they would have never had the opportunity. I realize the Charr have been around for a very long time, and in all likelihood, they probably do have boats, ships, etc. However, simply by them causing the Searing, it shows they have little regard for lakes, rivers, or any other larger bodies of water since the Searing turned most water in Ascalon into tar pits and they continued their attack (even more fervently, it seems).

Also, looking at the map of Tyira south of the Shiverpeaks, you can clearly see a stretch of green near the coastline next to the mountain range. Whether that is just a freak happening of nature or has something to do with being so close to a desert I'm not sure, but it adds to my theory that Orr was once firmly connected to the Tyrian mainland and not just the Crystal Desert.

(You may be thinking "Well, in some parts of the world (Earth :rolleyes:), a long stretch of tropical coastline may be next to frozen mountains, why couldn't that be the case here?" The simple answer to that is the distance between the coast of the Sea of Sorrows and the Southern Shiverpeaks is very, very small. In our world, the distance between a tropical coastline and a mountain range is often hundreds of miles. The distance in this instance is within easy running distance of one of our characters if the land were laid out flat.)

Quintus Antonius
27-02-2006, 02:07
The reason I bring the Charr ability to traverse bodies of water is because, from the topography that they're used to, they would have never had the opportunity. I realize the Charr have been around for a very long time, and in all likelihood, they probably do have boats, ships, etc. However, simply by them causing the Searing, it shows they have little regard for lakes, rivers, or any other larger bodies of water since the Searing turned most water in Ascalon into tar pits and they continued their attack (even more fervently, it seems).

Also, looking at the map of Tyira south of the Shiverpeaks, you can clearly see a stretch of green near the coastline next to the mountain range. Whether that is just a freak happening of nature or has something to do with being so close to a desert I'm not sure, but it adds to my theory that Orr was once firmly connected to the Tyrian mainland and not just the Crystal Desert.

(You may be thinking "Well, in some parts of the world (Earth :rolleyes:), a long stretch of tropical coastline may be next to frozen mountains, why couldn't that be the case here?" The simple answer to that is the distance between the coast of the Sea of Sorrows and the Southern Shiverpeaks is very, very small. In our world, the distance between a tropical coastline and a mountain range is often hundreds of miles. The distance in this instance is within easy running distance of one of our characters if the land were laid out flat.)

Kryta is also right below the Shiverpeaks, and is highly tropical.

It is also possible that the Charr had some sort of assistance from a third party in getting to Orr, such as the Stone Summit, or Glint (I'm betting Glint).

It may also be possible there was a kind of land bridge of ice that melted or was destroyed. Still, there had to have been some way to reach Amnoon Oasis prior to the Searing and Cataclysm.

Zero RoGuE
27-02-2006, 04:18
Ok first off the Crystall Desert dried up Before 174 AE(Thats when the forgotten first begain inhabiting the Crystal Desert.)

next. Aladar, Baised on Common Geological Formations Either Both the oaisis and Droknar's lake where completely dired up(Nearly Impossible) or The channel Has always been there.

Realize that anywhere you are in Shiverpeaks is way higher than anywhere you are anywhere else in the world...(hence the reason for the snow) so it wouldnt be uncomon to have grass growing on the lowlands of a mountian.

Arkhan The Black is probly right, The Major Part of the Charr Military Force was wiped out Durring their assault on the humans and is the main reason the charr arent as aggressive as they once where.

As for the char being seafaring. Realize we have not seen the char's homeland(or at least any of their villages). The Nation of charr is off the map. and probly wasnt touched by the searing. So there May be A Lake or Sea to the north that the charr sail on.

Even without boats the char can always go around(through Animoon Oasis) the channel.

Next, Glint would have nothing to do with the Charr(Not unless some of the charr are choosen). All Glint was interested in was completeing the Flameseeker Prophecies.

Quintus Antonius
27-02-2006, 17:09
Next, Glint would have nothing to do with the Charr(Not unless some of the charr are choosen). All Glint was interested in was completeing the Flameseeker Prophecies.

That's incorrect. For the Flameseeker Prophecies to reach fruition, the Searing was necessary. Also, as Eratimus and others have shown, the crystals and magic used by the Charr closely mimic those used by Glint and the formation of the crystals in the Desert and Dragon's Lair. Also, the Cataclysm was necessary to create the Lich. The Lich couldn't have been created if the Charr never reached Orr, forcing the Vizer to use the Forbidden Scrolls. If Glint is only interested in completing the FP, then it is likely she aided the Charr to make sure the FP happened.

We aren't sure whether or not Glint had any participation in the Searing, but her motives are quite questionable. It has been suggested that she intiated the Flameseeker Prophecies, which see wrote, I might add, to give herself some sort of twisted gradification.

Refer to the discussions about the Desert in other threads, as well as the "Who's Pawn Am I anyway?" thread in the community discussion forums for more on Glint as an antagonist in the storyline.

Warison
27-02-2006, 18:13
How is it that the Lore and the map of the Orrian peninsula are inconsistent in locating the area?

Lore:
"Situated on a peninsula south of Ascalon and southwest of the Crystal Desert"

GW map:
The proposed peninsula is due west if not somewhat northwest of the desert and southwest of Ascalon.

Quintus Antonius
27-02-2006, 20:24
How is it that the Lore and the map of the Orrian peninsula are inconsistent in locating the area?

Lore:
"Situated on a peninsula south of Ascalon and southwest of the Crystal Desert"

GW map:
The proposed peninsula is due west if not somewhat northwest of the desert and southwest of Ascalon.

I suppose it depends on your point of reference. From the Dragon's Lair, it is southwest, remember the Desert is larger than just what we can explore. Although, I do see the problem with Ascalon. Still, I think, considering that is the only shattered peninsula, we can be realitively certain it was Orr. Remember, we are looking at a satellite map, whereas the people of Tyria would only have nautical maps and the like, which tend to skew things, and make them less accurate.

Zero RoGuE
28-02-2006, 00:16
That's incorrect. For the Flameseeker Prophecies to reach fruition, the Searing was necessary. Also, as Eratimus and others have shown, the crystals and magic used by the Charr closely mimic those used by Glint and the formation of the crystals in the Desert and Dragon's Lair. Also, the Cataclysm was necessary to create the Lich. The Lich couldn't have been created if the Charr never reached Orr, forcing the Vizer to use the Forbidden Scrolls. If Glint is only interested in completing the FP, then it is likely she aided the Charr to make sure the FP happened.

We aren't sure whether or not Glint had any participation in the Searing, but her motives are quite questionable. It has been suggested that she intiated the Flameseeker Prophecies, which see wrote, I might add, to give herself some sort of twisted gradification.

Refer to the discussions about the Desert in other threads, as well as the "Who's Pawn Am I anyway?" thread in the community discussion forums for more on Glint as an antagonist in the storyline.99% of the time the Prophecier has nothing to do with the Prophecy. Yes glit may have had a hand in the Prophecies, but i doubt it...since

1)gint is secluded. She lives in a grain of sand!
2)The entire desert is Crystal(the sand in the crystal desrert issnt rock, its crystal.) So its obvious her lair would be crystal when its in a grain of crystal sand.

Like i said glint could have done it..but it could as easily be someone else...im not disproveing that glint helped the char. im saying there issnt enough edvidence to conlude that.. For all we know the Vizer gave the charr that spell so he could control the armies of orr (being undead was just a side effect).

Eratimus
28-02-2006, 03:34
Well it is like saying, From the US, Austrailia is West of it...when it actualatlity it is SW. It is again about how you are pertaining it in definition. The Desert goes all the way up to the mountain range, so where Orr is now is actually W, SW in all sense of the majority of the desert.

Zero RoGuE
28-02-2006, 07:48
Well it is like saying, From the US, Austrailia is West of it...when it actualatlity it is SW. It is again about how you are pertaining it in definition. The Desert goes all the way up to the mountain range, so where Orr is now is actually W, SW in all sense of the majority of the desert.
:huh: uhhh what are you talking about?

Arkhan The Black
28-02-2006, 10:46
Actually I think the Charr are clever enough to discover awesome arcane destruction on their own. They are more then just simple animals and are not to be underestimated. They also worship the Titans and might actually be able to communicate with them. The Titans are all about destruction so they are bound to know arcane secrets.

If the Lich or the Mursaat have anything to do with the Charr’s I am pretty sure it would be after the Charr invasion.

Serena Corvidae
01-03-2006, 15:42
If we assume that the Charr were indeed intelligent enough to initiate the Searing unaided, it begs the question why they only did it once. Why not employ the same magic against the Krytans for example?


Back to the original topic which is about Orr, we know that the Orrian captial was Arah. What is interesting though, is that in the lore, only Dwayna, Balthazar and Melandru ever resided there. Where were Lyssa and Grenth? :english:

Quintus Antonius
01-03-2006, 17:11
If we assume that the Charr were indeed intelligent enough to initiate the Searing unaided, it begs the question why they only did it once. Why not employ the same magic against the Krytans for example?


Back to the original topic which is about Orr, we know that the Orrian captial was Arah. What is interesting though, is that in the lore, only Dwayna, Balthazar and Melandru ever resided there. Where were Lyssa and Grenth? :english:

Well, also remember, the Ascalonians resisted significantly. They even built the Great Northen Wall to try to hold back the Charr invasion. The Charr didn't cast the Searing spell to destroy Ascalon, they did it to bring down the Wall. My guess is, they weren't completely aware of the destructive power they wielded, and when they unleashed it, it probably destroyed a large number of Charr as well. I doubt the falling crystals were discriminate on the targets they vaporized. Still, because it wasn't the Charr homeland that recieved the nuking, they had a larger number of forces and were able to continually press forward. Think about it, the Searing really didn't do that much to aide the Charr. Enough Ascalonians remained to put up a decent battle, and the Wall still stands. Really, all the arcane magics of the Searing did was vaporize an awful lot of land and people. I truly believe the Charr just didn't know what they were unleashing.

In the words of Q in the novel by John DeLancie I.Q, "Humans invented something called the 'atomic bomb' then had the lack of foresight to actually detonate one. In the late 20th century, they invented something called a VCR but never adquetly learned to use it. All around the world, VCRs blinked '12:00' in silent mockery of human technological superiority."

Now obviously, that's refering to a whole different world, and a whole different set of people. My point is, the Charr built something and cast something they had no idea about and it did much more than they anticipated. I think the Charr only continue to fight for the same reasons the Ascalonians do, pride. Both species view Ascalon as their homeland. The Charr lost a significant amount of forces fighting Kryta and Orr, but Ascalon is something they are unwilling to give up, even if it is Seared beyond usefulness.

Arkhan The Black
02-03-2006, 15:46
The Charrís never had the chance to Sear Orr because it exploded and the White Mantle (backed up by the Unseen Gods) drove the Charr's back. Then the Charrs decided to concentrate on Ascalon and make it 100% Charr territory.

Maybe they didnít have the necessary resources to cast a second searing as well?


And back to Orr.

I think Grenth was content with staying in the Underworld and take care of the departed ones. About Lyssa Iím not sure but maybe she was located on another continent at the time?

Quintus Antonius
02-03-2006, 17:11
I think Grenth was content with staying in the Underworld and take care of the departed ones. About Lyssa Iím not sure but maybe she was located on another continent at the time?

I agree with the first part there. Grenth has his own realm and doesn't need to live in a city with the other gods. He has always stuck me as sort of a Grinch (kind of ironic considering his minions are known as 'grenches'). He is probably recluse and doesn't interact with the other gods, similar to Hades or Pluto of Greek and Roman mythos respectively.

As for Lyssa, I'm not even sure she is corporeal, that is, confined to a single shape. Balthazar, Grenth, Dwayna, and Melandru all have definate shapes, but Lyssa is the goddess of the Mesmers, and thus, the patroness of illusion. I doubt she even has a form. On the one of the tablets of Lyssa, it suggests she often appears as two goddesses intertwined. I'm betting she isn't like the other gods, in that, she can't be percieved easily.

Perhaps a new topic should be opened discussing the gods of Tyria. This has too much potential to get off topic.

Lazarus Dio
02-03-2006, 17:18
The Charrís never had the chance to Sear Orr because it exploded and the White Mantle (backed up by the Unseen Gods) drove the Charr's back. Then the Charrs decided to concentrate on Ascalon and make it 100% Charr territory.

Maybe they didnít have the necessary resources to cast a second searing as well?


And back to Orr.

I think Grenth was content with staying in the Underworld and take care of the departed ones. About Lyssa Iím not sure but maybe she was located on another continent at the time?


First, I totally agree with the resources issue. Think about some of the more powerful spells we have access to. They usually take a long time to cast and a hefty amount of energy. To cast something on the scale of the searing you would have to multiply that a hundredfold, even a thousandfold.

One possibility is that the Charr invested everything they had into the one casting to bring down the Great Wall. It is also possible that the Charr just did not have the time to cast the spell against Kryta and Orr. The two countries had most likely heard of Ascalon's fate. The White Mantle and their Unseen Gods most likely drove back the invasion before they could lay seige to the land. As for Orr, I am under the impression that the Cataclysm happened just as the Charr were sweeping through the land. The important differance is that the Great Wall in Ascalon had slowed the Charr down but also gave them time to gather their strength.

I don't know if I really did a good job of explaining my thoughts on that. :undecided:

Secondly:
Your comment on Lyssa got me thinking. She is a rather mysterious Godess and seems to play a lesser role than alot of the other Gods. Maybe that is just my own perspective. I smell another Paleoanthropological thread! :fortuneteller: We havn't really looked at the Gods all that much.


Edit: Quintus, great minds think alike!

Aladar
02-03-2006, 17:40
I now believe my assessment of the location of Orr was wrong, but not perhaps by much. I agree that Orr probably did not connect to the Southern Shiverpeaks, but the large body of water between the Sea of Sorrows and Amnoon Oasis was very thin, perhaps like a skinny Nile of sorts. That would make the name "Amnoon Oasis" a legitimate name. It would be an oasis, not a seaport. Perhaps after the Cataclysm it would have become a seaport like it is now, but during the time of Orrian occupation, I'm sure it was just a pool of water out in the desert, with a few settlers. After the Cataclysm it became a much more popular destination (maybe not popular, persť, but more people visited it).

Quintus Antonius
02-03-2006, 21:15
I now believe my assessment of the location of Orr was wrong, but not perhaps by much. I agree that Orr probably did not connect to the Southern Shiverpeaks, but the large body of water between the Sea of Sorrows and Amnoon Oasis was very thin, perhaps like a skinny Nile of sorts. That would make the name "Amnoon Oasis" a legitimate name. It would be an oasis, not a seaport. Perhaps after the Cataclysm it would have become a seaport like it is now, but during the time of Orrian occupation, I'm sure it was just a pool of water out in the desert, with a few settlers. After the Cataclysm it became a much more popular destination (maybe not popular, persť, but more people visited it).

An oasis is a freshwater area in a desert. Just because it is near the sea, does not make it any less of an Oasis. We can see by the Margonite sail towers there, that it was used as a seaport at one time by more than just the current residents. Also, the increase in popularity makes sense to me. Now that Orr, a major industrialized center is gone, Amnoon is the next closest way point.

I do not believe there is evidence to suggest that the Orrian peninsula was ever connected to the Southern Shiverpeaks, at least not recently. If Orr had been blown up hard enough to disconnect an entire tectonic plate from the mainland, massive, and I mean massive tsunamis would have resulted. The Ring of Fire islands, Lion's Arch (which is a seaport), and Amnoon Oasis would have all be completely wiped out.

I truly believe your original theory is correct. The blast crater would put Arah at ground zero in the center where you had it.


First, I totally agree with the resources issue. Think about some of the more powerful spells we have access to. They usually take a long time to cast and a hefty amount of energy. To cast something on the scale of the searing you would have to multiply that a hundredfold, even a thousandfold.

One possibility is that the Charr invested everything they had into the one casting to bring down the Great Wall. It is also possible that the Charr just did not have the time to cast the spell against Kryta and Orr. The two countries had most likely heard of Ascalon's fate. The White Mantle and their Unseen Gods most likely drove back the invasion before they could lay seige to the land. As for Orr, I am under the impression that the Cataclysm happened just as the Charr were sweeping through the land. The important differance is that the Great Wall in Ascalon had slowed the Charr down but also gave them time to gather their strength.


Another possibility may be that, after the Searing, Kryta and Orr knew what to look for. That big focal point we see outside in the Northlands pre-Searing would now be a strong indication of another Searing spell in the works. Ascalon just wasn't expecting something that big, but Kryta and Orr now knew what to expect. Who knows, a Searing might have been attempted on Kryta, but the Mantle stopped them. That may have been why Saul led that assault so deep into Charr territory when he was killed.

Zaxares
03-03-2006, 01:07
On the topic of Lyssa:

Lyssa may be a goddess who prefers to move hidden among the world of mortals. Of all the deities, her Lore is the only one that depicts Lyssa assuming a different form and moving amongst the humans. It's possible that Lyssa was wandering around the world in different guises while the others were at Arah.

Zero RoGuE
03-03-2006, 04:10
Ok heres my two cents agian into the pot.

On lyssa Im Guessing she is in one of two places..either wandering around the world in various guises(like Zaxares said) or she is wanding in the endless mysts inbetween the worlds..(from what i can tell i think thats her area, kina like underworld is to grenith)

On the Sering spell, we alrdy know it needs 3 things.. 1) A flame temple(the charr have only about 5-7 of these) 2)4 Flame priest(I think they have to be elite ones too) 3)alot of preperation(like months). With this knowlege we can tell why they havent use it agian...(unfortunetly they may give the reminants of ascalon annother dose in the future...)

Lazarus Dio
03-03-2006, 04:26
Another possibility may be that, after the Searing, Kryta and Orr knew what to look for.

***snip***

Who knows, a Searing might have been attempted on Kryta, but the Mantle stopped them. That may have been why Saul led that assault so deep into Charr territory when he was killed.

Bingo! Exactly what I was thinking!

Quintus Antonius
03-03-2006, 12:20
Bingo! Exactly what I was thinking!

I believe it makes the most sense. The Charr lost the element of surprise involved in the Searing spell, and never had the opportunity to cast it again.

Either that, or ANet nerfed the skill and made it do mega exaustion, or increased its recharge time and decreased its damage output because the Searing screwed up "balance" in game.