All along the Watchtower......coast

[Ranger Nietzsche]

I recently travelled to the Watchtower Coast, in the northern part of Kryta. It connects Beetletun to Divinity Coast. For those of you unaware, the description of the town of Beetletun is as follows:

"Historians speculate that in time out of mind, these now-ruined watchtowers guarded Kryta from some unknown northern threat. Now the crumbled towers stand like ancient stone soldiers still awaiting the arrival of that mysterious enemy from across the great saltwater lake known as the Giant's Basin."

Now many of us have wondered waht this threat could have been. I suggest the charr as they are known to have holdings in the north and it makes a charr invasion of Kryta much more simple to manage logistically. However, why then do the charr only attack ascalon? Finally, I found this strange structur among the watchtowers:

http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/1948/strangestructure0te.th.png (http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=strangestructure0te.png)

the object is completely unapproachable, despite the appearance of a land bridge, and this was a close as i coudl get. Its architecture is very different from that of the rest of the area, which can be summarized with these two objects, along with yoru standard Krytan huts:

This one is too oddly shaped to thumbnail
(http://img74.imageshack.us/my.php?image=watchtowertwo7na.png)

This one also shows teh structure in the context in which i found it
[IMG]http://img467.imageshack.us/img467/3280/watchtowerthree6yl.th.png (http://img467.imageshack.us/my.php?image=watchtowerthree6yl.png)

What is that thing? it almost looks like the pillars found in the Talmark...

[Quintus Antonius]

It says historians speculate. It never mentions anything else, and we don't know who these "historians" are.

The Watchtowers could be little more than lighthouses in reality.

Still, we don't even know if the Watchtowers were built by humans or not. It is possible that they were built by Forgotten or one of the beast races in Kryta. Also, in the dim recesses of the past, there was a great magic war, right after the Old Gods granted the races of Tyria magical abilities. If these are indeed towers placed to watch for threats, I'd say they were built during that time, as it is obvious they haven't been used in awhile.

[Durza the Shadeking]

The Charr Attacked all 3 Kingdoms, not just Ascalon. After the Searing two groups rushed through ascalon, slaying all in their path to get to Kryta and Orr. Orr is now destroyed (Cataclysm) and Kryta and The White Mantle defened and drove back the Charr.

[Warison]

I think it implies that with the statement "Historians speculate that in time out of mind" that the structures were built by the serpents.

It is consistent with lore that states:

"From the Tarnished Coast in the west to the Bay of Sirens (now called the Sea of Sorrows) in the south, from the far eastern reaches of the Crystal Desert to the Giants' Basin on the northern coast of Kryta, Tyria flourished under the protection of these mystical creatures. The serpents were the protectors of the land, the keepers of knowledge, the teachers of all things, and during their time the world was in balance.

Since the serpents disappeared from the world of men soon after the appearance of mankind. It is possible the knowledge about the watchtower coast was lost by humans since Kryta was only a fledgling outpost when the serpents left.

The Lore States: "The serpents never returned to the world of men, and slowly, their influence faded. To humans, they were just a part of the past, spoken about only in legends and myths. Eventually their memory all but passed from human consciousness. But they were not gone, only forgotten."

The Charr just don't seem like a formidible threat, at least to the serpents who would have built the watchtowers before the coming of mankind.

[Quintus Antonius]

I think it implies that with the statement "Historians speculate that in time out of mind" that the structures were built by the serpents.

It is consistent with lore that states:

"From the Tarnished Coast in the west to the Bay of Sirens (now called the Sea of Sorrows) in the south, from the far eastern reaches of the Crystal Desert to the Giants' Basin on the northern coast of Kryta, Tyria flourished under the protection of these mystical creatures. The serpents were the protectors of the land, the keepers of knowledge, the teachers of all things, and during their time the world was in balance.

Since the serpents disappeared from the world of men soon after the appearance of mankind. It is possible the knowledge about the watchtower coast was lost by humans since Kryta was only a fledgling outpost when the serpents left.

The Lore States: "The serpents never returned to the world of men, and slowly, their influence faded. To humans, they were just a part of the past, spoken about only in legends and myths. Eventually their memory all but passed from human consciousness. But they were not gone, only forgotten."

The Charr just don't seem like a formidible threat, at least to the serpents who would have built the watchtowers before the coming of mankind.

Yes, I agree. It's almost as if legends are taking the place of history in regards to these towers. I don't think they were built by humans, because there is no record of their function, while other human ventures, even ventures in the Crystal Desert, where no one survived to tell the tale, are very well documented.

Still, another possibility exists. Perhaps the towers were built for the exact purpose stated, and it was just forgotten over time. Who can really tell for sure? Perhaps there is more evidence that we can use to connect this.

EDIT: I took a run out to the Watchtower Coast and took a look at the towers. They don't look anything like watchtowers, if anything, they look like some sort of fence, perhaps it was charged with magic at one time. Then there are the behemoths sitting on islands and rock formation out in the water. I don't know why, but when I look at this whole picture, I think of Ghostgate in Morrowind. Those smaller towers almost look like conduits that transfered energy from the other behemoths to the focal point (the claw thing) on the central island.

At any rate, the White Mantle controls them all now, evident by the Mantle banners flying from the various peaks and windows of the behemoths.

EDIT II: After looking at the picture of the lesser towers, that is, the ones shaped like a "T", I realized they may have a practical, not so mysterious use. In between the points on the bar of the "T", there are two prongs. The Giant's Basin is a fishing spot, if they caught a massive fish, it could be concievably hung from its tail on those prongs.

Now that leads me to my next ponderous question. Which structures are the towers they speak of? Are they the behemoths, or those little "T" towers, or are they some other structure we are missing? If you leave Beetletun and head north towards the Giant's Basin, you pass, on the right, a heep of black stone with stairs on the front of it. At the top is a tangle of steel pipe girders. This is obviously a collapsed building of somekind. Is this one of the ruined towers it speaks of?

[Stardrake]

One possible consideration is to note that the Charr came from the north, and the Charr have a connection to the Titans. Could this 'unknown enemy' have been the Titans before they got sealed behind Abaddon's Mouth? (having been built by the Forgotten, the Mursaat, or some other race which fought the Titans)

Alternatively, it could have something to do with the Seers and the Mursaat. After all, we really don't know how long either race has been around or how long they've been fighting.

[Scott the Green]

Still, we don't even know if the Watchtowers were built by humans or not. It is possible that they were built by Forgotten or one of the beast races in Kryta.
So, minotaurs? :smiley:

Throughout this post, I'm referring to the giant towers, not the smaller T-shpaed ones. The ones that look like piles of stone dumped on top of each other to make something resembling a tower.

I have nothing constructive to add, but I like Stardrake's titan theory. They had to be doing something before they got locked away behind the Door of Komalie, and threatening the original inhabitants of Kryta (whatever they might have been) seems like something they'd do.

The big towers definitely don't look like human construction, and I think that whoever lived in Kryta before the humans came along must have built them. A process of elimination can be used to figure out who didn't build those towers, and whoever's left over is a potential culprit.

First off, the towers are too bland to be mursaat construction, so they're out. The druids probably wouldn't have spread that far across the land, so they're eliminated. Humans probably didn't exist yet, so they're out. There are currently no centaurs in Kryta, but there might have been at the time. However, I can't imagine why a quadriped would want to build a tower. Climbing it would have been nearly impossible, unless all the stairs were gently-sloping ramps. I don't think ettins, skales, or mergoyles have the intelligence to build anything, so they're all eliminated as well.

What does that leave? And of the groups left, which one would (or could) construct giant watchtowers?

[Ranger Nietzsche]

heres a riddle for you

this is in front of me...where am i?

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/214/watchtowerinlaone2ki.th.png (http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=watchtowerinlaone2ki.png)





you may think watchtower coast....but NO! Look closer.....

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2066/watchtowerinlatwo0sb.th.png (http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=watchtowerinlatwo0sb.png)


and i found something else out in the open..the tandem to my mysterious structure:

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/6161/similarinlionsarch2aq.th.png (http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=similarinlionsarch2aq.png)

cf. to the other found in watchtower coast:

[img=http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/1948/strangestructure0te.th.png] (http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=strangestructure0te.png)



unless the forgotten were building around LA too, we have a good example of krytan architecture

[Eratimus]

That is the thing between a fantasy world and our real world. When we think of legends in real world, what happened is based on passed stories, religion, and things that may never have happened as the legends state, IF at all the legenda re true, BUT in a fantasy world as you stated even though they speak it as Legend we can most often see it as true history in the past as there is more possibility for it to happen.

I do suspect the towers were bult by the Forgotten, although do we ever see the forgotten around any present architecture of similar type now?

Also note though, the Wizard tower in Kessex is of the same architecture, which makes one surmise that it was buitl by the same people. If so, is there a comflict there?

[Eratimus]

heres a riddle for you

this is in front of me...where am i?

http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/214/watchtowerinlaone2ki.th.png (http://img76.imageshack.us/my.php?image=watchtowerinlaone2ki.png)





you may think watchtower coast....but NO! Look closer.....

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/2066/watchtowerinlatwo0sb.th.png (http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=watchtowerinlatwo0sb.png)


and i found something else out in the open..the tandem to my mysterious structure:

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/6161/similarinlionsarch2aq.th.png (http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=similarinlionsarch2aq.png)

cf. to the other found in watchtower coast:

[img=http://img474.imageshack.us/img474/1948/strangestructure0te.th.png] (http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=strangestructure0te.png)



unless the forgotten were building around LA too, we have a good example of krytan architecture

Yes, Lion;s Arch was built around and with in these ancient structures.

Wha would be a great project if any desires to do so is toa ctually investigate and uncover WHO the architects of these ancient towers and castles really are.

[RilderView]

I always thought these "watch towers" were simply housing structers but maybe i'm wrong, and these two, according to my teleporter theory

http://img474.imageshack.us/my.php?image=strangestructure0te.png

http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=similarinlionsarch2aq.png

are actually in fact "dial-porters"

[Quintus Antonius]

That is the thing between a fantasy world and our real world. When we think of legends in real world, what happened is based on passed stories, religion, and things that may never have happened as the legends state, IF at all the legenda re true, BUT in a fantasy world as you stated even though they speak it as Legend we can most often see it as true history in the past as there is more possibility for it to happen.

I do suspect the towers were bult by the Forgotten, although do we ever see the forgotten around any present architecture of similar type now?

Also note though, the Wizard tower in Kessex is of the same architecture, which makes one surmise that it was buitl by the same people. If so, is there a comflict there?

I agree, Eratimus. The towers bear a strong resemblence to what we established may be a Forgotten city in the Crystal Desert. I originally suggested that when you brought it up in one of the Desert threads.

However, the Wizard Tower in Kessex Peak is most certainly Lord Odrian's tower, and I have a good hunch that Odrian was one of the race of people that would later become the Mursaat. All of Tyria, we hear of an ancient wizard race, but where are they now? A lot of what they did seems to coorespond with things also attributed to the Mursaat, which is why I believe that they were, or are, the Mursaat.

Still, I don't think they Mursaat built those behemoth towers. The one in Lion's Arch is the Royal Palace of the Doric Family, but it never says that they built it.

[Warison]

Even though the structures neat LA have White Mantle banners hanging on them I too believe they pre-date the colonization of the area by men. After all we know that civilization regardless of race or culture will build temples or even cities on top of one another. Seems only natural to exploit the infrastructure someone left behind.

Anyway the towers at the coast and around LA look like aviarys/homes that a would be occupied by a winged inhabitant. Can you imagine climbing to the top using stairs?

[Quintus Antonius]

Anyway the towers at the coast and around LA look like aviarys/homes that a would be occupied by a winged inhabitant. Can you imagine climbing to the top using stairs?

That's actually a very good point.

But do we have any evidence that Tengu can fly?

[Sir Jack]

But do we have any evidence that Tengu can fly?

I don't think they are able to fly, but it seems the Forgotten once were able to.
Tengu/Avicara wear heavy armor, limiting their flight. It's possible they once knew how to fly, but when their race advanced, they saw no need for it.
It could also have been the race of spellcasters that dissappeared/turned into the Mursaat. Maybe they found a way to fly.

[Quintus Antonius]

I don't think they are able to fly, but it seems the Forgotten once were able to.
Tengu/Avicara wear heavy armor, limiting their flight. It's possible they once knew how to fly, but when their race advanced, they saw no need for it.
It could also have been the race of spellcasters that dissappeared/turned into the Mursaat. Maybe they found a way to fly.

Where did you get the idea that Forgotten could fly?

[Kadaj]

I think Sir Jack is referring to the image of the flying serpent creature, on the wall in ascalon.

[Quintus Antonius]

I think Sir Jack is referring to the image of the flying serpent creature, on the wall in ascalon.

Be wary of toting unproven information around as fact. We are still investigating that creature, and so far, evidence seems to indicate if it did exist, it may have been a Giganticus Lupicus.

Still, the Forgotten would be better suited to those buildings, even without flight, as they are able to crawl up things and such. We also don't know of the Tengu can fly or not, because they don't fly in game. They may still be able to. Think about it, the Tengu are obviously intelligent, and there are a lot of them too, so why are they attacking humans? Seems to me they have some kind of grudge.

[Stardrake]

Be wary of toting unproven information around as fact. We are still investigating that creature, and so far, evidence seems to indicate if it did exist, it may have been a Giganticus Lupicus.

Still, the Forgotten would be better suited to those buildings, even without flight, as they are able to crawl up things and such. We also don't know of the Tengu can fly or not, because they don't fly in game. They may still be able to. Think about it, the Tengu are obviously intelligent, and there are a lot of them too, so why are they attacking humans? Seems to me they have some kind of grudge.

Some human wizard cursed them to lose their flight! :grin: (Possibly before the Bloodstones got seperated, when I would imagine it was possible to do more with magic than it is now with the four disciplines clearly seperated (although I must wonder how the Ritualist now fits into the picture))

[Ranger Nietzsche]

thats true, I did wonder what the devs are gonna do about new professions, maybe add 2 new Canthan gods, or....maybe they will use Menzies and Dhumm, the two Gods opposed to balthazar and grenth

[Warison]

There are winged Forgotten in the Crystal Desert. In the Lore, the serpents describe themselves as "not gone, only forgotten." The Crystal Desert is where the serpents retreated to. Throw me a bone here....this has to be more than just coincidence.

edit: Also in the GW Manuscripts, the picture of the winged serpent that is also on the wall in ascalon city appears in the narrative section describing the serpents appearance, role and departure.

[Stardrake]

thats true, I did wonder what the devs are gonna do about new professions, maybe add 2 new Canthan gods, or....maybe they will use Menzies and Dhumm, the two Gods opposed to balthazar and grenth

Without having entered either of the ToA areas, it could fit - I could see how there could be rivalry between the deities of assassins and warriors (corrupting what should be honorable combat) and the deities of ritualists and necromancers (No! Do what you like to the bodies, but leave the spirits to go to the Rift unmolested!).

On the Forgotten: They do have flaps of skin between their arms, but they look more like they'd be gliders if anything rather than fully flight-capable. Mind you, the right air magic skills can make up for a lot in that respect (even if the Forsaken currently appear to prefer Earth magic).

They certainly don't seem to resemble the serpent on the wall at Ascalon. Maybe it's a preview of the dragon seen in the Central American themed Chapter 3?

{Disclaimer: Before any rumours start, I have no information on any plans by ArenaNet to make Chapter 3 or any subsequent Chapter based on a Central American theme - although admittedly it wouldn't surprise me if the theme crops up eventually)

[Quintus Antonius]

There are winged Forgotten in the Crystal Desert. In the Lore, the serpents describe themselves as "not gone, only forgotten." The Crystal Desert is where the serpents retreated to. Throw me a bone here....this has to be more than just coincidence.

edit: Also in the GW Manuscripts, the picture of the winged serpent that is also on the wall in ascalon city appears in the narrative section describing the serpents appearance, role and departure.

Can I get a picture of those winged Forgotten? I must have missed them.

Read the "Of Giganticus Lupicus" thread. In many respects, some of the giant GL skeletons we found, bear strong resemblences to the winged serpent in the mural. There are pictures in parts of the Manuscripts that don't apply to what they are talking about. All those pictures are just early concept art anyway, according to the Art book. However, the Art book also mentions that they reused a lot of the concept arts to make other things that are still in the game. For instance, the undead sorcerers were originally the model for the Lich.

[bigwig]

All those pictures are just early concept art anyway, according to the Art book. However, the Art book also mentions that they reused a lot of the concept arts to make other things that are still in the game. For instance, the undead sorcerers were originally the model for the Lich.



I've said it before, I'll say it again: If you are only going to post comments like "it's a developer's coincidence with no meaning", then post them in the Community Discussion Forum or somewhere else, not in the Lore Forum.

oh for shame.

[Warison]

Go the the GuildWiki.org site and do a search for "forgotten."

edit: The tail of the serpent is the symbol for "infinity" further corraborating the statement that the "serpents are not gone, only forgotten."

[Sir Jack]

Can I get a picture of those winged Forgotten? I must have missed them.

Read the "Of Giganticus Lupicus" thread. In many respects, some of the giant GL skeletons we found, bear strong resemblences to the winged serpent in the mural. There are pictures in parts of the Manuscripts that don't apply to what they are talking about. All those pictures are just early concept art anyway, according to the Art book. However, the Art book also mentions that they reused a lot of the concept arts to make other things that are still in the game. For instance, the undead sorcerers were originally the model for the Lich.

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1915/forgotten5jd.jpg


Ask and ye shallt receive. This is the forgotten that give you the 15 attribute quest, you can find him if you do the "The Forgotten Ones" Quest.

Also:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8360/forgotten23gh.jpg

It looks like they don't use their wings anymore though, and have grown hands instead. The mural could also be different because it was probably made after the Forgotten left the continent, and the scetch was inaccurate.

I think a lot of creatures were able to fly, but due to the Z-axis they all forgot how :P

[Warison]

Yes it has been some time, but a thousand years dosen't allow enough time to evolve. You cannot see a beetle's wing structure till he takes flight. They could be hiding the more fragile wing structure till it is used.