The next useless profesion in pve?

[NightKiller]

Hey guys i just thought about something will assasins be any useful in pve i mean
if u need a tank take warriors
if u need dmg take eles
if u need healers take rt or monks
if u need hexers ( if u do sometime finally :cry: ) take mesmers or necros


well what do u think guys?

[Serendipity]

I think you are mostly right.

But you could replace 2 tanks by a tank + assassin in a standard team.

If you play smartly you shouldn't get hit too much.

[Xunlai Agent]

Assassins can deal quite a bit of damage in a short amount of time and there lies their power in my opinion. People complain about lackign defense but this can be worked around actually. They should work for PvE at least ANet will try to intergrate them into it. Considering we don't know what Factions PvE looks like I would reserve any judgement on my part

[The Experimentor]

Hey guys i just thought about something will assasins be any useful in pve i mean
if u need a tank take warriors
if u need dmg take eles
if u need healers take rt or monks
if u need hexers ( if u do sometime finally :cry: ) take mesmers or necros

well what do u think guys?
Don't worry. :smiley:

We've seen how capable and dangerous the new profession is. Assassins can do things none of the other classes can, or at least, Assassins can do them better than anyone else.

They're killers, plain and simple. Conventional build Warriors die to them. Imagine that- the designated tanker is easy prey for these guys, and I kid thee not. They can tear right through Elems, Monks and probably Ritualists. Also Mesmers and Necros, the banes of Assassins, if the 'sin catches them off-guard. But a properly built Assassin can counter Mesmers and Necros.

Assassins can spike damage and ensure death like no other, as long as they can get into melee.

While you can say that such is the Elem's job, Assassins do it very differently. Elems can do quick spikes, but otherwise they don't do it as fast or as surely as Assassins do, while some Monk builds can negate the damage of an Elem easily, though not so much against Assassins. Assassins throw in a lot of condition dealing and incredible attack skill synergy when they do their thing- if they pull off their combo, their target is probably going to be very, very dying or very, very dead.

But they have their own weaknesses. If any part of the combo fails, the rest of it fails also. They can be locked down more easily than Elems can, being attack-based. They have to get close first to do their thing. They're actually quite fragile.

As a result, they play differently. If so, then Assassins and Elems shine in different combat situations or with different fighting styles.

As far as PvE or PUGing is concerned, an Assassin will, more or less, have the same role as a Elem. Probably, he will be working in closer concert with Warrior in the group than Elems do.

Based on how well Assassins do against generic tank builds, you can also think of the 'sin as an anti-tank weapon. :wink: And since almost every PUG includes tanks following healers...

Also, as we've only seen the Assassin in PvP, we've yet to see how he does in PvE. So, we're still in the "figuring out" stage for him in terms of playing in PvE and PUGs.

Lastly, even without any clear-cut role for him in a group, you can be sure he's going to be a popular addition to any party, or at least an often-played one.

[teh Monkeys]

Lastly, even without any clear-cut role for him in a group, you can be sure he's going to be a popular addition to any party, or at least an often-played one.

Oh, you mean like rangers and mesmers? Yeah, people love those in your average PuG.

[Erasculio]

if u need a tank take warriors
if u need dmg take eles
if u need healers take rt or monks

I think the problem is in this kind of thinking, not on the Professions themselves.

A Ranger has better elemental armor than a Warrior, and has stances at least as good (if not better) than their own. An Elementalist with armor-increasing spells has far better armor than a Warrior, but lacks the stances.

A Mesmer can kill one single enemy faster than the standard Fire Elementalist, and he may also disrupt many others at the same time. A Necromancer can buff your entire party, while doing damage that ignores defense and heals him.

The division of "tanker" (who lacks any way to control aggro), "nuker" and "healer" is just flawed, in my opinion. It amazes me how people compare GW with Everquest and etc in every aspect, but not on this one. Is a Rogue in WoW useless?

An Assassin was created, according to Arena Net, to add spacial control to the game. There are many ways to do this, for example:

1) A big group of enemies in front of you, blocking your way. The Assassin teleports near its back, runs away dragging the entire mob behind it, the other players move to safety, then the Assassin teleports back. No need to tank, do damage or heal - you just avoided the enemies.

2) A group with the standard formation - warriors in front, casters at the back, and at the far back a monk. The Assassin teleports to the monk and kills him, while the enemy warriors move to the back to attack the Assassin - and then he teleports back, just as the other party members advance to the now exposed casters and kill them before the enemy warriors move back to the front.

There are many ways to use an Assassin. If you get stuck on the "three guys are enough" mentality you won't see it, though. Even worse, those who try to play an Assassin as if he were a Warrior (and we'll see waves of those) are going to die faster than a character in Pre Searing armor standing over lava by the side of a Tengu army.

Erasculio

[Almas Darksoul]

Bear in mind that factions will bring in slightly new styles of pve (i believe there are some pve missions with a pvp twist?). In these situations, assassins could prove useful for their ability to solo unprepared monks whenever an encounter was made, and hang back a little the rest of the time.

Also, think how easy those mursaat monk bosses will be when they get hit by temple strike.

[Endoxos]

I fully agree, the problem lies in his thinking, not in the characters.

You stand my husband and I, side by side, him on his favorite character (a W/Mo), and me on mine (E/Mo), and I can take FAR more damage than he could (consider, a Warrior only has Dolyak's signet to increase his Armor... an Ele has Armor of Mist, Armor of Frost, Armor of Earth, Kinetic Armor, Obsidian Flesh, and Mist Form to choose from... I normally see warriors solo farming only desert griffons and wurms... I solo farm the blessed griffons and summit beast masters north of Rankor... without using elites or prot spirit). Two E/Me's can withstand ALL damage (Arcane Mimicry and Mist Form on one and Arc. Mimicry and Ob. Flesh on the other) for a brief few moments whereas a party of 8 warriors could be slaughtered in the same amount of time that the ele's would survive.

You stand one of my closest friends (whose old main char, before deleting it, was an E/Mo) next to me on my monk (Mo/N), and put both of us in a party getting slaughtered, him healing the top four, me the bottom four... the top four will survive a LOT longer than the bottom four. He might not heal as well as I could, but he'll survive longer than I will, and has more energy to work with, and is more experienced healing on his E/Mo than I am on my Mo/N (used to being a boon prot or a bonder... I am by no means a healer).

You need a hexer? Why not use a Ele? Blinded, Weakened, Slowed to a standstill, and irritated from constant knockdown? You need heals? What about a little thing called "self-heals", rangers (God bless Healing Spring!!!), or necros? You need damage? Look to eles (whose skill Shock penetrates Spell Breaker, as well as conditions, damaging hexes, and mass damage), mesmers (mass degen and damage-to-self skills), necros (mass degen and conditions), and rangers (whose traps can completely obliterate a mob of Aatxe or Flesh Golem-thingies at Perdition Rock, and whose 'AoE' attack, Barrage can wipe out as much as a Meteor Shower could, and by far, a lot faster than Cyclone Axe could, but without having foes scatter like roaches when the lights go on)

I pity Nightkiller's mindset. Mass Degen from a N/Me will take something out FAR quicker than a warrior, especially on something heavily armored. The healing from a sole W/Mo with only 3 in healing and Healing Breeze is enough to suffice a team of three (the other two brought self heals) to finish the Iron Mines mission after the rest of the team dropped. Team after team of monks did THK during the Monk Strike to prove they didn't need Tanks.

Open your mind. GW is *not* limited to Tank, Nuker, Degen, and Healer. I am soooo looking forward to getting a 2nd Factions acct, getting Ride The Lightning, and making my ele an E/A... she will sooo rock.... Air Spike FTW once again!

[lumimantteli]

The real thing about PvE is the holy trinity.

Warrior to tank
Monk to heal
Elementalist to nuke everything that moves

This is only to discuss the PvE side of GW.

The need of hexer is true. Necromancer with SS will do 100 times more damage than Elementalist, Warrior or the new Assassin. Even medicore Minion Master does more damage than Nuker, Warrior or Assassin. What about the most annoying enemies in PvE? Well, it is Mesmer with massive degen, interrupts and some really nasty shutdown skills (hexer by heart) that really makes missions and quests laughable easy if the Mesmer can do his job.

Now. Where in earth do people really think that normal PUGs would need spike melee damage, with fragile armor? Since the old pressure builds run over the PvE content as easily as a Range Rover drives over a cola can.

[Endoxos]

I dunno 'bout you, but I'd rather get a mission done in half the time using unorthodox methods, rather than the full time using tried-and-true methods.

[CKaz]

The real thing about PvE is the holy trinity.

Warrior to tank
Monk to heal
Elementalist to nuke everything that moves

This is only to discuss the PvE side of GW.

The need of hexer is true. Necromancer with SS will do 100 times more damage than Elementalist, Warrior or the new Assassin. Even medicore Minion Master does more damage than Nuker, Warrior or Assassin. What about the most annoying enemies in PvE? Well, it is Mesmer with massive degen, interrupts and some really nasty shutdown skills (hexer by heart) that really makes missions and quests laughable easy if the Mesmer can do his job.

Now. Where in earth do people really think that normal PUGs would need spike melee damage, with fragile armor? Since the old pressure builds run over the PvE content as easily as a Range Rover drives over a cola can.


This has changed though, now good luck Ele, the Necro is here.
And I already knew the necro was viable, but it certainly doesn't make the Ele useless in PvE nor do '100 times the damage' :rolleyes:

Warrior its how you spec, more tank or more damage.
Monk... well I hope the Ritualist will add variety there.

But yeah you'll find resistance to thought all over the place, I left my last guild over it. I'd rather play with smart players and grow a community, a team that works together than put it all on the line for a FotM build.

An assassin will be viable and PvE is easy, but yeah until someone posts 'OMG assassin owns farmingspot, build and video here' people won't get it, and when they do they'll overreact (like necro taking the eles spot) and won't get the fact the original has its niche and works better in some cases still, too.

A smart group will roll over things better than a PUG'd build too, I could site many non-FotM groups I've been in that have slaughtered areas efficiently and easily, but it seems people get it in their heads off posts or a bit of close-mindness it's one way or bust. Shrug, I've even agreed to disagree with guildies and even friends, I don't buy in and will skip such single-minded groups even when I have the character to participate.

[Ekrin]

Well as you put warriors as a "tank" which is designed to TAKE damage not DEAL it then the assassin is the primary melee damage person. Eles can spike sure but what if the creature has etremely high magic resistance? or what is there is a place where all creatures have anti magic skills. And assassins have better "run away" skills that elementalists. Anyways not all people that want to spike want to be an elementalist. Assassins will have a place in PvE even if it takes people a while to see it.

[Siru]

So sad to hear that people still think about the "holy trinity", "no use for those" and such in here :disappointed:

I won't be throwing any bones around here more than this:
Assassin will have it's place in the game in many ways. Maybe not as a popular one at the end but it's still there and I will be playing it and enjoying it. Just like my mesmer.

[Kjentei]

None of the professions are "useless".

[Pardoz]

Classes aren't useless - players are.

[Cantos]

if u need a tank take warriors
if u need dmg take eles
if u need healers take rt or monksUnless PvE gets harder or more complicated then this will essentially stay the way it is.

[Zaxares]

I like to form groups of 8 players; one of each of the professions. :wink:

[The Experimentor]

Oh, you mean like rangers and mesmers? Yeah, people love those in your average PuG.
And yet, people still play them, and they still do get into groups, and they still end up finishing the game. :wink:

The rest of my response has already been said by many other people who posted in this thread.

[lumimantteli]

Yes. One of the each professions to teams in Cantha, please ANet.

This would make mesmers, rangers and non-nuke elementalists desirable in PvE. When there are changes coming to to GW experience overall, there might be the one -> purely magic resistant bossess/monsters. This alone would make rangers, warriors and assassins somewhat more desirable. Maybe the AI of GW:F mobs is different to make unigue use of spirit powers and awsome mobility that these two professions give. But still, I don't believe that there would be any rework on AI because of A and Rt.

In GW:P we have seen PUGs with 4 warriors, Alesia and E/Mo that has been turned into cheap orison machine. And still these PUGs manage to survive, complete bonuses and run through missions. There is enough room for variation in team builds in PvE. The thing is that PUGs aren't ready to test anything new, unorthodox methods.

If a player knows what he is against and has some control over his team (henchies, or teamleader) he has the chance to show others that there is no true use for "tanks" since in PvP there is no need for such, the firepower of the elementalist isn't really the only thing that elementalist can do, and the monk isn't a total n00b if he uses his secondary for other than energy management.

Yes, the necromancer has taken the coveted spot in the holy trinity, and in even larger team sizes the necromancer has a quaranteed spot, be it a battery, SS or MM. Without BR or BiP some teams just take minutes worth of time to regen and continue on.

In the first levels, 1 to 15 levels there won't be any real hazards out there. We saw this in GW:P. Basicly with below bar armor you can literally run past every encounter as the hostiles have really low damage, no skillpoints at all and if they are not in massive groups, they are not even deadly. But from Crystal Desert to Shouthern Shiverpeaks to Ring of Fire and at last to elite areas UW, FoW and Tombs the mobs are of 20+ levels, they number some times more than you, they have more skill points than you and they whack you down in seconds if you let them do that. At this point the well tested and working builds come in place. Tank survives and soaks the damage, Monk heals the tank and anyone too silly to put himself in jeopardy and Nuke does his nuking. Yes, it is only three characters, but that is the better part of it. You can put your R, your A, your Rt, N, Me or what ever around this, it will work, and any addition just makes it work better.

There are also other very nice team builds out there, like Trapper teams for UW, Pet Barrage teams for Tombs (I really liked the balanced builds in Tombs, they worked, but now we won't be seeing them).

When the "new" Tombs came, the thing was simple, there were Tanks, Renewal Resolve Nukes, SS and Battery and two or three Monks in every team. These teams were successful, pretty fast and even with few err=7 or "mom calls gotta go!" the team could beat the instance and get its quaranteed green drops.

In Cantha too, when everything is new, teams will be looking for the old and well tested team builds. I really don't think that the first low level areas really can teach any community that much that it would override the experience gained from GW:P end game areas.

There will be tons of A/x wanting to get into teams, and in low level areas they are as good as anything (exception on Rt and Mo that "might" heal you), in some missions or quests I would have loved to have a Assassin in my team, in GW:P. Remember a mission? Frost Gate, there is this uphill, where are three (or was it four) mobs, each has a healer with them and they are packed really thight on that hill. There the Assassin would have shined, just tele to the back healer and mow it down, taking them each one at the time as the rest of the team holds of the carvers from the Monks and the bonus dwarf (the one that is allways spying and is caught and but in some jail). These are obvious places where Assassin would be needed, clearly only because there is true need for the Warrior to tank the hostile warriors, so that they won't get to the rest of the team.

This brings some concerns also. With increased mobility, the Assassin might also aggro even more mobs to the fray, as he is trying to get to the soft targets behind "front line". It just is the same thing as with the rushers and frankly, there are too many of these around. Mostly Warriors that think that they are capable of surviving of... what ever might come against them.

To come to think of this again. It isn't the profession that is useless, it might be the group of people that are appealed to it.

[Lefaras]

I remeber someone posted that assaisn will make excellent runner. so prob we will get

LFG Assasin runner to XXX location. Will Pay!!!!

[Nanashi]

I don't care if they have a problem in PVE. I'm gunna play em anyways because when I tested em they rocked hardcore anyways. :P

[lumimantteli]

I remeber someone posted that assaisn will make excellent runner. so prob we will get

LFG Assasin runner to XXX location. Will Pay!!!!

This will happen only if the route to the area is filled with spirits with equal distance to each other. The skill that I am talking about is Spirit Walk.

The other "increase speed skill" that comes in mind is Dash, that has 3 sec duration and 15 sec recast, so that won't really be a good running skill.

Maybe someone daring can use Shadow Form {e} or Shadow Refuge on their runs, but really, why not leave the running to Rangers and Warriors, who have better running skills in their primary attribute, and use the Assassin for secondary and some Shadow Arts skills, if those runners really need them.

Assassin can be a great runner in PvP though, in some annoying ways and in some really useful ways too.

[teh Monkeys]

You're all forgetting that there will be about 5 million new 'ninjas' created on release.

99% of those people will suck balls at playing assassins. And those 99% of people will think assassins suck balls. Assassins will be forced join the outcast club and the cycle will be complete.

[Xunlai Agent]

How is the assassin going to be a better runner than the R/W or the W/X? Please explain...

[The Experimentor]

You're all forgetting that there will be about 5 million new 'ninjas' created on release.

99% of those people will suck balls at playing assassins. And those 99% of people will think assassins suck balls. Assassins will be forced join the outcast club and the cycle will be complete.
I don't think so. Assassins are melee characters and have a straightforward skill set (lead, off-hand, dual). It's going to be massively easier to play them than Mesmers (however Mesmers don't deserve it).

The difficulty I foresee for 'sins is how much damage they can take in fights- that's what's going to make playing them well hard. But adjusting to hit-and-run tactics from a stay-and-fight style is going to be much easier than the subtlety it takes to play Mesmers (again, apologizing to Mesmer players).

[Serendipity]

Factions will be 85% level 20 content.

And how much damage does a warrior on a level 28 target ?
Most of the time this is ridiculous, like 7 damage a hit.
In a lesser extent the same can be said about elemental damage.

So what's left ?
- condition -> assassin / ranger
- armor ignoring damage -> mesmer / necromancer.

I really doubt that the warrior/ elementalist/ monk will stay the holy trinity of PvE. (we already know that Elementalists have been replaced by necromancer.)

[Nanashi]

How is the assassin going to be a better runner than the R/W or the W/X? Please explain...

People are easily fooled by the Shadow Step and Dash run abilities for the assassins. Shadow Step is more defensive or decieveing. And Dash doesn't last long enough. Even though assassins look like they'll be my most favorite, I must say I disagree with them being better runners. A good ranger can keep himself always moveing faster than normal with just two skills (dodge/StormChaser) an if wanted they could go the cool line of skills: Dodge, Escape, Storm Chaser.


And how much damage does a warrior on a level 28 target ?
Most of the time this is ridiculous, like 7 damage a hit.
In a lesser extent the same can be said about elemental damage.

I hate to say it but if you do 7dmg max to a level 28... you need to get rid of your ascalonian weapon man. I see warriors doing around 30s average during fights in places like Abadons and RoF.

You're all forgetting that there will be about 5 million new 'ninjas' created on release.


99% of those people will suck balls at playing assassins. And those 99% of people will think assassins suck balls. Assassins will be forced join the outcast club and the cycle will be complete.

Hmmmm my answer... you must of been one of those 99%...

It was not hard at all to get adapted to the Assassin. Any player playing a warrior can easily pull off a fair assassin as they are basicly warriors with more damage and dual weilding. So to change your exagerated estimation, I believe 2% will truely suck do to the ammount of people I encountered during Day 3 of the PVP Weekend. While playing my assassin I watched player strategy change dramaticly. First day, nobody knew what to expect of the assassins; they were new and questionable so they won a lot in pvp. Then by mid time of day 2, the smart were defined from the lot of ya and they were the ones who exploited the assassins via banes of the eles or just simple blindings. It was an awsome event to say the least.

[Serendipity]

I hate to say it but if you do 7dmg max to a level 28... you need to get rid of your ascalonian weapon man. I see warriors doing around 30s average during fights in places like Abadons and RoF.


Did I say max ?

Yes you can do 30 damage using a skill with points in Strenght and Weapon proficiency, but a normal hit is closer to 7 than 30.

If you can do 30 damage on average with a normal attack on Titans, I want you to teach me how you do it.

Knowing that a sword is 15-22, an axe is 6-28 and a hammer is xx-35, I don't know how you can do 30 damage on average on a level 28 mobs. ( even with cold damage weapon.)

[Nanashi]

I was thinking through skills yes. But I didn't thing average hits were so low. My ranger does 28s on average hits and if you use an Axe it does about the same as that of a bow. I guess it also depends on your weapon.

[Serendipity]

I was thinking through skills yes. But I didn't thing average hits were so low. My ranger does 28s on average hits and if you use an Axe it does about the same as that of a bow. I guess it also depends on your weapon.

It is really build dependant too. When I play a warrior in the final missions, I am usually a tank with points in Tactics and Strenght and the minimum in the weapon line. So my DPS is probably much lower than a ranger.

[Nanashi]

Well depending on your definition of a tank yeah they aren't ment to deal incredible damage but take it instead. Perhaps you're not getting the porper requirement in the main weapon you use. If not... then yeah skills is where it's at.

[kate sullivan]

any1 make up any team builds for the 12 vs 12 fight of factions

[The Hazard]

I too have the concern that the assassin will turn into a "2nd rate tank." I think it will be more of a "well since we cant get another warrior we'll just grab an assassin." type of thing. All it needs to shut one down is a knockdown or two to interupt their combo lines long enough that they have to start over.

[winkgood]

Factions will be 85% level 20 content.

And how much damage does a warrior on a level 28 target ?
Most of the time this is ridiculous, like 7 damage a hit.
In a lesser extent the same can be said about elemental damage.

So what's left ?
- condition -> assassin / ranger
- armor ignoring damage -> mesmer / necromancer.

I really doubt that the warrior/ elementalist/ monk will stay the holy trinity of PvE. (we already know that Elementalists have been replaced by necromancer.)

I agree with you completely. Didn't anyone else notice that the further into the game you went, the less useful classes like warriors and ele's became? (ok, ele was still kinda useful) The fastest I have ever done thunderhead keep was with a party of barrage rangers, a minion master, and a monk. Nobody died and we tore through the mission like I've never seen before.

I don't believe anet would create a useless profession. If anything, they will show bias towards Assassin and Ritualist in factions since they are the new gems of guild wars.

[liketorock]

Guild wars is all about balance,so i say that the assasin will be equal to whatever.

[Ylistra]

I'm hoping the general consensus is that Assassins suck and have no place in PvE.

When I use one to do the seemingly impossible, it makes it that much more impressive if the people watching start out with biased preconceived notions of "gimp". ;)

[SubitusNex]

I believe Assassins will become great Monk-killers...

[Nanashi]

I'm hoping the general consensus is that Assassins suck and have no place in PvE.

When I use one to do the seemingly impossible, it makes it that much more impressive if the people watching start out with biased preconceived notions of "gimp". ;)

Weither they suck in pve or not is still to be determined but I got front row seats to testing during the pvp weekend and I assure you, I dig that class like no other. Even if they do require groupage starting at level 1 upon release, well that's why there are henchmen and it's an MMO.


I believe Assassins will become great Monk-killers...

Ehhhh it depends on your build. I had a very tough time trying to take 55 monks out. That invinc-a build they got going is a pain in the arse. Though you do a crap load of damage quickly, you still can't kill them without a little help. But, this is where Wild Blow may come in handy quite a bit as I have already found out from recent PVPs with my ranger.

[Zaxares]

Ehhhh it depends on your build. I had a very tough time trying to take 55 monks out. That invinc-a build they got going is a pain in the arse. Though you do a crap load of damage quickly, you still can't kill them without a little help. But, this is where Wild Blow may come in handy quite a bit as I have already found out from recent PVPs with my ranger.

You actually run into 55 monks in PvP? :shocked:

Only inexperienced PvPers do 55's in PvP. One Shatter Enchantment or Vampiric Touch and it's all over.

[Wakunahum]

I believe Assassins will become great Monk-killers...

No......

I already have enough problems as a healing monk :grin:. I fully expect assassins to teleport (or whatever it's called) and do some huge burst damage on the monks.

I think assassins will be a cool addition to the game. Personally, I think making decisions on the correct role of the class is a little premature. We never know what great combinations an Assassin/? could bring to a group based off the new builds all the others professions will have as well.

Even in games where there are damage dealers that don't have defined roles, they always end up being valuable to groups. Damage is damage.

[lumimantteli]

any1 make up any team builds for the 12 vs 12 fight of factions

I think that I have heard (or read) somewhere that these 12 vs 12 matches are infact 4 vs 4 vs 4 all random like in RA.

But I might be wrong.. or drunk. Correct me please, before I make myself bleed. :grin:

[ChaosJester]

Actually, they ARE 12vs12. The way that they are setup is that they are 3 groups of 4 players per team, or a total number of players equalling 12. One side must be Luxon, the other must be Kurzick. So while it doesn't SEEM like it's 12vs12, it is once you get into the match.

[GoodKingJayIII]

I'm going to throw my lot in with the "stupid players make stupid classes" crowd. I suspect they'll be the most played GW class once Factions comes out, and if that's the case the instance of morons is bound to be higher. Does that mean I won't take one during a mission? Well, it depends. If I'm playing with my friends I'd prefer a few henchmen to round out the group rather than a random X factor. If I'm just running a PUG any one of the party members could be an idiot, so what's one more?:tongue:

[floplag]

my very initial observations are that the Assasin will be a faster dmage spiker than a warrior .. so the trade off is less durability. they HAVE to kill faster cause they cant last as long.. but thats very first glance

[The Hazard]

Well after playing it I actually like it quite a bit. I was able to do substantial damage with them. They may turn out to be very useful. Plus shadow stepping is a valuble tool for both defense and offense. it makes you nearly impossible to chase. You could easily run bym leading away groups and then shadow stepping back. pretty nifty:azn:

[Bobross]

I agree with predictions that many assassins will suck at the beginning. Furthermore, I believe they'll be party killers...and so be extra undesirable. Heres why:
Remember those first few lvl 20 areas where you have to pull? Elona's, etc.

I remember going in there with my ranger and mesmer and knowing exactly what to do, only to have it ruined by an overzealous warrior repeatedly. I found that throughout the lvl 20 areas, warriors would rush in, not notice that they were aggroing a lot of monsters, and then get the group killed.

In all fairness, it makes sense, the W/mo is a powerful class, for most of the game, nothing touches you and you only need a little healing. People think they're great, they get overplayed....

When things go wrong, it's hard to see why, except that their health dropped a lot... and they blame the healer....and they keep playing the same way.

Fine.

Assassins have the same problem as warriors in needing to be in melee range, but they're harder to keep alive. Furthermore, teleporting to the back lines generates a lot of aggro (I played much of the preview weekend with henchies, doing just that...) If you don't have the right skills to either (A) prevent a lot of damage when you get mobbed, or (B) get out of there quick, most assassins will die.

I think that many Assassins will see their powerful combos and load up on them, thinking they can do without some of the defensive skills...that's what a healer's for anyway, right?

So fine the assassin aggros some monsters and dies, big deal. Except that whereas the Warrior would have to run up to the monster to do it, the Assassin ports there, and has an even better chance of aggroing extra, unintended mobs than the warrior.

So now the group is in over their heads and dies. or the Assassin dies, and the group runs away. Either way, people aren't too happy with that assassin.

So assassins will get a bad reputation early on, because of their popularity, and because of the deceptive difficulty involved in playing them.

I think that with the right skill set and the right strategy this can be a great class for PvE or PvP. The problem is that it requires the same player skill that is required to make a good warrior, just to make a passable assassin, and most people will not realize that, they will look at the skills, expect assassins to be uber, play for a bit, fail horribly, and decide that the class sucks. People who play with them will see them fail and decide that either the class sucks, or the odds of getting a good assassin are low (which is the reason I adopted a strict No-warrior policy when grouping in PvE towards the end of the game with my ranger and mesmer).

But maybe we'll get lucky and the poor players will quit early, and the only assassins left at the end will be decent or better.

I'll also point out that I did have some success in groups with 3 or 4 assassins and 4 henchies, and when we were calling targets, we took things out quick...so they'll probably still have their place within groups, even if people can't figure out how to play them well.

I also want to agree with the comments that rigid thinking has no place in this game. Sure certain things work. But games like this are designed to challenge you to come up with new things. I like adopting a take all comers approach when making a group (and anyone who says "drop him, we need another monk/ele/warrior", gets kicked). If players are smart they can come up with great ways for their skills to compliment eachother and keep the group alive. I played a great tank with my ranger...and could be a decent nuker or healer with my Mesmer when needed. Most classes have that kind of flexibility, if the players behind them will only exercise some flexibility themselves. And groups with flexible and thoughtfull players will almost always outperform cookie cutter groups, and will always be more fun.

[CHIPS]

Simple

You missed conditioner in your list. :afro:

[Kakashi Chan]

I agree that assassins will be the new n00b class for awahile, which is unfortuante. I see assassins being kind of like Mesmers ... either you're a good one, or you're not. It's going to be a skillz based class, as they dont have great survivability, but have great screw-you-up potential.

[undeadpoilce]

I agree with predictions that many assassins will suck at the beginning. Furthermore, I believe they'll be party killers...and so be extra undesirable. Heres why:
Remember those first few lvl 20 areas where you have to pull? Elona's, etc.

I remember going in there with my ranger and mesmer and knowing exactly what to do, only to have it ruined by an overzealous warrior repeatedly. I found that throughout the lvl 20 areas, warriors would rush in, not notice that they were aggroing a lot of monsters, and then get the group killed.

In all fairness, it makes sense, the W/mo is a powerful class, for most of the game, nothing touches you and you only need a little healing. People think they're great, they get overplayed....

When things go wrong, it's hard to see why, except that their health dropped a lot... and they blame the healer....and they keep playing the same way.


Agree In the earily game warriors are the ones that ruin the game in many ways most of the time they ruin the bouse part of the mission and go ramdomly calling others idiot normally those are 12 year old kids. Warriors are normally use by noobs and also use by pro player if u put in pro term warrior are the hardess to master and also the most powerful class.(for those who pvp u should know)

ya assassin class will be the next victim to be called "the idiot class"(even if they can do wonders) because they sound cool and also armor that make them look cool sooo.... most kiddies wanna use them.

[The Hazard]

I definately agree. Melee classes are fairly simple to do decently but hard to be great at. Obviously since the assassin is new and at least in my opinion cooler it will attract the noobs. A lot of people dont want to buff others, or heal, or counter casters, or hex opponents. They just want to deal damage and kill people. That is why the assassin will be attractive to people. These bad people would put a bad rep up for the whole profession. It is really unfair to talented assassins but there is nothing you can do about it and no way to tell right away what their skill is.

[undeadpoilce]

I hope that not much kiddies, retards, idiots, or even ppl that dun listen use assassins.

[Zingeri]

I hope that not much kiddies, retards, idiots, or even ppl that dun listen use assassins.Except to be dissappointed.

[teh Monkeys]

I think it's rather sad that most assassins will be forced to superglue Flashing Blades or a warrior stance on their skillbar, just to survive. (Shadwonstepping back to your monk is a big no-no. It breaks aggro.)

[eliteblademaster]

What ever the outcome of the public perception of the Assassin Profession, we all know this. When played properly, the assassin become the best in enemy busting. FACT!!! Fair enough, it becomes less effective when fighting against Mesmers or Necros, but when the team works, the assassin is the first to strike at the main front of the enemy! Assassins are masters of 1v1 combat and they are good for just that, pitch it against any player in 1v1 and it will slaughter the opponent! When a pro plays the assassin, nothing gets in its way, fair comment as a lone profession without any backup, it becomes weaker but then what n00b decides not to have a secondry profession. Combining skills is what its all about! Get monk healing or get warrior stances. Whatever the choice, the main assassin priority is 1v1 combat not 1 v many or even many v many. It excells in 1v1 and in PvE or PvP, it should be played as such. Find a target and leach the living crap out of em. Daggers are there for the speed of attack and with chain attacks come the chance to select a target and bring instant demise in very few seconds. A live assassin is quick and efficeint in its attacks and leave very little room for mistakes. The same principles must be implemented in GW! Hang around the back and when some n00b hangs back or the team falls apart, the assassin picks em off and leaves em crying. Assassins are not as simple as Warriors, get stuck in and take the crap! Assassins will pick off targets one by one! Anyone who does not do this with an Assassin is either foolish, n00bish and stupid. This is how they are played. Doing this, you can beat anyhting in PvP and in PvE

[Nanashi]

I hope that not much kiddies, retards, idiots, or even ppl that dun listen use assassins.

It'll happen, believe it. The day you hope for is the day me **** turns purple and starts smelling like rainbow cherbet.


I think it's rather sad that most assassins will be forced to superglue Flashing Blades or a warrior stance on their skillbar, just to survive. (Shadwonstepping back to your monk is a big no-no. It breaks aggro.)

I did just fine during the FPE. I didn't have Flashing Blades nor did I have any warrior stances. Infact, I dislike the warrior stances because you cannot use any skills or else it wears off. That's why I chose rangers as a secondary, if I want a stance I would grab Whirling Defenses. It's fun to be untouchable yet still dealing a crud load of damage in the blink of an eye.

[Lylyth]

I for one have a new found respect for for Assassin's. Naturaly I went about life the wrong way, not really likeing being as fragile as I first thought assassins where. I did an A/W Relying upon stances and shadow refuge as a guard against taking damage.

The goal of that particular build was to stress the assassin's ability to deal critical's while weilding a sword and sheild. Which worked out pretty handedly, with Critical Eye I was fairly self suffient with energy not having to worry as my bar remained always around mid lvl as I cycled though my skills continously. (Warrior attacks Skills mind you)

Several times I saved my teams bacon when getting overrun by dredge (And honestly, who didn't get overun by the freak'n dredge... =)... I hope Anet keeps them, one particular mob you love to hate.) With a well placed Caltrop on the retreat.

Several times I could supertank, with shadow refuge and a good Defensive stance. Warrior armor hasn't got anything on taking 1/2 dmg.

These are of course are a few side effects of assassin skills fitted into a warrior's role.

It wasn't until we hit the PvEvP missions that I truely got a feal for the assassin. I went with the above build and did ok. But aftering winning Retolled and went full on assassin. Then I got a niche for where the mojo was. Using Return to warp nearly back to the Amber Quarry (I was Kuzy!), popping a caltrops on the Seige turtle, catching all the luxon warriors as well on the way by.

And the best skill yet, Shadow form. For 15 secs being a indestructable force of nature. And the seige turtle would go down, oh yes the Seige turtle went down. When when you see that blinking. Cancle the Enchantment "Return" and Blink back to that NPC. for a refresh and reload.

I have half a mind to build a Assassin Mesmer and pop illusion of weakness just before commiting to Shadow form. Though I never got to try it, I am reasonably sure that shadow form leaving you with like 55 health with trigger illusion of weakness giving you that much needed 250 instant hp buff.

"Sure Lye, that's all good and great for PvP and missions, but what about PvE?"

Well the one thing that has me tempted the most and this true for PvP as well. Is two things. One, is that Assassins's have four pips on there energy regen. Which makes them exceptionaly Ideal to handle 2ndary spell classes alot better then warriors or rangers could.

Two, wolfpack tactics. Though I had yet to see anyone smart enough to run wolfpack tactics in the random arena, the same holds true for PvE. Two lvl 20 assassin's working in cordation dropped a lvl24 in under 12 secs. Sure that's not impressive. What about 4? What about 2 groups of 2? Speicaly if that lead attack on one is to cripple, and the other is to interupt.

A finaly tuned machine of assassin's (In my opinion) could rip though UW faster then any B/P group (Naturaly proving this will be awhile). That's not even factoring in the other skills that don't do dmg such as blinding powder, crippling, bleeding, poison and all the other goody goody things.

I look forward to running an assassin, and it's not just for the all mighting damage dealing potential. It's the fact that they can Melee or Spell cast equaly effective all in the same class with out branching out.

This turned into a much longer post then intended.

*Yikes*
-L

[Nanashi]

I can see atleast two assassins in a BP group. Assassins bring charm and comfort, rez sig, and one defense skill. Then they go 4 attack skills, one of which being death blossom. You get in the middle of the mobs and you'll storm through it quick. My only problem is that even as a ranger, WD doesn't help because them stupid Grasps have Fingers Of Chaos. So it'll be a little tricky to impliment the assassins into UW/UW/FoW but I look forward to trying it out none the less.

[Lylyth]

Having Assassin 2ndary and throwing a nice Mark of pain on the way in would not be a bad idea as well, considering the machine gun like way assassin's can offload attacks.

*Shrug*

Bears some thought.

-L

[Furinto]

Personally, I welcome the new fighting methods and increased difficulty that will probably come with playing an assassin. The combo system is really interesting and so what if he has poor armor? Compensate and learn to play the build.

<3 a good challenge. :)

[lumimantteli]

What ever the outcome of the public perception of the Assassin Profession, we all know this. When played properly, the assassin become the best in enemy busting. FACT!!! Fair enough, it becomes less effective when fighting against Mesmers or Necros, but when the team works, the assassin is the first to strike at the main front of the enemy! Assassins are masters of 1v1 combat and they are good for just that, pitch it against any player in 1v1 and it will slaughter the opponent! When a pro plays the assassin, nothing gets in its way, fair comment as a lone profession without any backup, it becomes weaker but then what n00b decides not to have a secondry profession. Combining skills is what its all about! Get monk healing or get warrior stances. Whatever the choice, the main assassin priority is 1v1 combat not 1 v many or even many v many. It excells in 1v1 and in PvE or PvP, it should be played as such. Find a target and leach the living crap out of em. Daggers are there for the speed of attack and with chain attacks come the chance to select a target and bring instant demise in very few seconds. A live assassin is quick and efficeint in its attacks and leave very little room for mistakes. The same principles must be implemented in GW! Hang around the back and when some n00b hangs back or the team falls apart, the assassin picks em off and leaves em crying. Assassins are not as simple as Warriors, get stuck in and take the crap! Assassins will pick off targets one by one! Anyone who does not do this with an Assassin is either foolish, n00bish and stupid. This is how they are played. Doing this, you can beat anyhting in PvP and in PvE

I was going to quote you piece by piece, but now I am lazy and must ask you to read your post again.

I saw plenty of assassins in the FPE and did teamup with them to see the general player base that played with them. I can assure you that there were plenty of assassins there.

First thing that really made me worried about your post was the thing that you said about "the assassin is the first to strike at the main front of the enemy!" You sure of this? Did you try this at all? Taking aggro and all the beating as assassin instead of superior armor of the warrior? You must be talking about PvP and yes, by all means go in first, die first. There are no monks that can heal you while you are outside their cast range. No warrior stance, no selfheal can safe you from the one thing that the casters had learned in the FPE -> overextending assassins are toast. Why, I must recognize you! You were the assassin that was rushing like mad for the soft targets and was exploited by our MM just few secs after some one called your name. Really, keep this line comming, I just love such assassins in PvP, in PvE you will see that it is not the others that are called n00b, it is you.

No kind of teamworking can safe a assassin from overextending. No kind of teamworking can safe assassin with the rock hard tought of being the "best" in 1vs1 situations. But yes, you got something right, assassins do shine if the team is good.

Taking down targets one by one. Really? Alone? Why aren't you worried of the thing that the enemies are in the late game areas of higher level than you? They have more health, enough armor and skills to work around one simple condition spammer. I can't even imagine that someone with a right to call people n00b, stupid or otherwise can state such arguments. Oh wait! You can say what ever you want, but please tell me your IGN, show me some footage of your brave exploits as a pro assassin. I want to teamup with you to learn something new about the assassins, the way they shouldn't be played.

And on the "Hang around the back and when some n00b hangs back or the team falls apart, the assassin picks em off and leaves em crying.", well, why not. If the assassin is afk or something. But think of it. There are some effective ways on playing assassin, ways that might be new to you. As we can read of your post, there are assassins, warriors, what evers rushing to your caster buddies. They are overextending themselves. Now isn't that a good opportunity to assassinate someone, while he is overextending himself? You told us that you can take anyone down on 1 on 1. Less so against Mesmers and Necromancers. Why wouldn't you be the one that takes down the flag runner? He is also overextending himself. Relic runner anyone? You got what it takes to maim the guy.

Overall I had fun in the FPE, and I am waiting for the GW:F to surface. The assassins that I played with were polite, new to their profession and they didn't have any strange ideas that they would survive against level 24+ mobs alone. I think they learned soon after some DP that it would be best to forget any fancy shadowstep tricks and let the ranger to pull and warrior to tank.

In team I really hope that the assassins would follow calls, help the team to take down the primary target and contribute to the dps that the whole party is making towards the target. I saw that the multiple conditions, chained attacks and fast attack rate did bring down foes, but only when there were warriors, rangers, necros and elementalists doing their part to the damage too.

Oh yeah, as an ending insult, I think that the Oni (lvl 28 assassins in the Petrified Forest) know better how to be assassins. Try to learn something from them. Seems that you can't see them yet, so I'll throw something from them to you ->

Engage the fight when the time is right, preferably when the enemy is fighting off other foes (such as your teammates)

"Gang" your enemies, one assassin does X damage over 5 secs, three assassins do 3X damage over 5 secs (Oni move in groups of three, if they can get to the casters, they are doomed, trust me, I have seen this)

Try to keep your urges in check, there is no true reason to give another kill to the enemies. If there is more enemy blobs inside the minimap's aggro circle than friendly blobs, you might be in the wrong place.

[sophistry]

hehe damn onis..they were the reason i learned to love the earth mage hench so damn much...hell i even did the unthinkable and went as defence pbaoe caster picking off w/e decided to run inside my henchies wards vs melee (chuckles)

[Zaxares]

I hate Oni. :angry:

But the Oni have one advantage that regular assassins do not; their Demonic Agility monster skill gives them a 100% chance to double-strike. That means twice the damage of all their dagger attack skills... With 3 or so Oni on you, that's a *beep*-load of damage. :shocked:

[Mawgleah]

People....a word of warning. You may not agree with someone's post, you may even post your opposing view of another member's post. What you may NOT do is name-call, be disrespectful or talk down to another forum member, even if you disagree with his point of view or opinion.

[nuthintrue]

Hey guys i just thought about something will assasins be any useful in pve i mean
if u need a tank take warriors
if u need dmg take eles
if u need healers take rt or monks
if u need hexers ( if u do sometime finally :cry: ) take mesmers or necros


well what do u think guys?

Hm... I might want something more than just tank, nuker, healers, (btw i will never think pve need some good hexers).

Appearently I think dual farming is a good idea for monks. I am a 55hp monk and I can solo. But it's just slow after the changes of aoe. So I prefer to be pure healing and dual farming with one assassins. It is just so much faster than go by myself.

[cranialexodus]

Hm... I might want something more than just tank, nuker, healers, (btw i will never think pve need some good hexers).

Appearently I think dual farming is a good idea for monks. I am a 55hp monk and I can solo. But it's just slow after the changes of aoe. So I prefer to be pure healing and dual farming with one assassins. It is just so much faster than go by myself.

This thread is 2 month+ old? Nice to see people do use search though afterall:rolleyes: