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JSummers
25-03-2006, 13:15
Assasins' daggar attacks must start with lead attacks and be executed in particular sequence to be effective. So it's heavily subject to ranger/mes interrupting the chain. Also Me diversion builds that put 40+seconds recharge on lead attacks will totally shutdown Assasins.

So my guess is the viable line for PvP is the deadly line instead of dagger line.

Longasc
25-03-2006, 13:21
Idea: 2 Lead Attacks - for different conditions and to counter total shutdown, you gave the right example, if the lead attack gets neutralized you are out of business.

The Problem is, if the 2nd (off-hand) attack gets interrupted, your third attack is as well done.

XosirisX
25-03-2006, 14:37
that's not the only weakness, their low armor is a bigger disadvantage..., also their normal attacks with daggers is quite low compared to the warrior but it's quicker i know but the problem is it's harder to heal a spike of damage then damage over time

Fossa
27-03-2006, 09:01
Blinding me got me more concerned actually (Spirit of Bloosong :angry: ). I always carried two leads so diversion would make it a bit problematic but no too much.

Nanashi
27-03-2006, 09:10
that's not the only weakness, their low armor is a bigger disadvantage..., also their normal attacks with daggers is quite low compared to the warrior but it's quicker i know but the problem is it's harder to heal a spike of damage then damage over time

Well their armor is exactly like rangers, exccept they do not get bonus to elemental attacks. Makeing any form of ele their worst nightmare. Their daggers are fast and if you want to do a lot of damage with just default attacks then you want dagger mastery up high as well as critical strikes. As for heals, monk or ranger secondary seems to work best. Troll or heal breeze can help out a lot if you manage to get out of a harry situation. My secondary was the ranger and while I had CS and DM up high, I still managed to get troll ungent to heal me at 7points a tick. I got owned a lot do to not haveing a run skill. My only major defense was vipers.

Malhavoc Adhamar
27-03-2006, 09:25
Assasins' daggar attacks must start with lead attacks and be executed in particular sequence to be effective. So it's heavily subject to ranger/mes interrupting the chain. Also Me diversion builds that put 40+seconds recharge on lead attacks will totally shutdown Assasins.

So my guess is the viable line for PvP is the deadly line instead of dagger line.

Not really. I carried a back up with me, Golden Phoenix Strike. So long as I have an enchantment on me (I used Sharpen Daggers) I can use it as and when I like. My usual attack plan was to follow the warrior in and use Mantis Sting + Jungle Strike + Death Blossom then use Golden Phoenix Strike + Twisting Fangs. Then if they were still alive and I had the energy follow up with Shockwave.

The downside is that it lacks a good self heal. I was finding that I wasn't bothering with taking one since the monks were doing a good job at healing and also I usuall killed my target before it could kill me.

Best way I would say to dealing with a Assassin would be to use Ineptitude + Clumsiness + Empathy or use an E-denal build.

teh Monkeys
27-03-2006, 14:58
Best way to deal with an assassin is to use ANY type of evasion/blocking stance/enchant/ward. Out of all the billions of assassin's I've seen in the past 2 preview events, a grand total of 10 (!!) used Way of the Fox and even less used Expose Defenses.

Lead attack doesn't hit, gg assassin.

Phoenixtech
27-03-2006, 15:39
Way of Fox needs to be permantly on any assasin dagger builds PERIOD. It's just that good. Hell, I even use it on W/A so I can Evis/Exec without worrying about stupid distortion/guardian/etc...

Ju Smurph
27-03-2006, 15:40
Players intellegence: I saw so many people swing through empathy on the weekend it was too funny. Double strike ftw!

The true point to this is look towards what you are weak against... their is your really wekness, a below par skill can be left aside.

warriorsmiley
27-03-2006, 17:58
Yeah i was planning on making a assasin once faction was released.Then i realized i have a warrior and nothing gets more annoying then seeing blocked, evaded, or miss pop up on my screen but differnce is a warrior uses aderaline so its not much of a big deal. Now if your assasin and you see either block evaded or miss pop up your attack chain is pretty much gimped.Now a warrior swinging a axe can still produce 20-30 damage without using a attack skill but a assasin only pops up 10-15 which is really no threat at all.The already anti physical damage skills in the game are enough to make me change my mind on making a assasin especially since i have the 2 core physical damage classes already.

Colretsun Andolin
27-03-2006, 20:16
My PvP sin:

16 daggers, 10 critical, 10 shadow

Golden Phoenix Strike
Death Blossom
Moebius Strike
Twisting Fangs
Sharpen Daggers
Dash
Shadow Refuge
Res Sig

Very few lead attacks are worth it, so I skipped them alltogether. The 1234 combo kills pretty much anything, frenzy wars make me laugh.

The reason I like the 2 dual attacks with GPS so much is that since GPS is on an 8 second recharge, if you miss you only have to wait a few secs to go at it again, and you have 2 dual attacks that each attack two times, which statistically will hit against aegis/gaurdian, but even if one misses you have the other + moebius to recharge so you can start it again.

I also wanted to try this:

16 dagger, 10 crit, 10 shadow

Golden Phoenix Strike
Horns of the Ox
Falling Spider
Twisting Fangs
Aura of Displacement
Dash/Dark Escape
Shadow Refuge
Res sig

Aura of Displacement shadow steps to target right? I didn't unlock it and have yet to try it, but the concept sounds good.


Way of Fox needs to be permantly on any assasin dagger builds PERIOD. It's just that good. Hell, I even use it on W/A so I can Evis/Exec without worrying about stupid distortion/guardian/etc...

I don't think so. 45 second recharge to hit with 4-5 attacks? No thanks. Pick different targets I would say, I don't think sins are primary monk killers, but rather they are excellent for spiking down offensive casters or overextended wars or rangers.

Longasc
27-03-2006, 20:45
Um were superior runes for Assassin unlocked (16 Dagger Mastery)???

teh Monkeys
27-03-2006, 22:29
I don't think so. 45 second recharge to hit with 4-5 attacks? No thanks. Pick different targets I would say, I don't think sins are primary monk killers, but rather they are excellent for spiking down offensive casters or overextended wars or rangers.

Good luck finding a team that doesn't run Aegis/Guardian/wards/stances.

Xender Voth
27-03-2006, 23:04
that's not the only weakness, their low armor is a bigger disadvantage..., also their normal attacks with daggers is quite low compared to the warrior but it's quicker i know but the problem is it's harder to heal a spike of damage then damage over time

Not to knock down the entire discussion here, but I disagree with everything stated in this post.

Their armor is fine. I went toe to toe with several War/Monks as well as other variations of warriors. Few beat me. Shadow Refuge is half damage for 4 seconds followed by a heal, for 5 energy... it has an 8 second cool down. You can take half damage 50% of the time, energy provided (very easy to manage energy on an assassin unless someone is draining you of course), and let's not forget the heal. Also, even if someone removes your Enchantment (Shadow Refuge is an Ench), you still get the heal.

As for the arguement about their daggers being low damage... well their damage is in their abilities mostly. Their auto-attack I will agree was lower than I expected, but I am so pleased with their spike abilities (well planned combos) that I wouldn't complain. It's balanced, I think. Auto attack when out of energy, any crits will deal extra damage as well as restore energy. Auto-attacking assassins are a burden simply waiting to spike you to death in an instant.

I played the hell out of the assassin this weekend, and it is hands down the class I've been waiting for. After my success playing one this weekend, I don't want to see them buffed up beyond fairness only to be nerfed into oblivion. I feel they're quite balanced.

I'll without hesitation agree that shutting down a lead attack shuts down an assassin. But isn't that the idea? A class with no weaknesses is overpowered. A class with no counter is overpowered. Couldn't the same be said for a mesmer who casts Empathy on a warrior? Isn't he shut down? Remove hex is the way around that. Just as someone mentioned bringing another lead attack to a fight, allowing you to bypass that shut down. That's the beauty of this game. Think. Strategize. Win.

If I had to say that the Assassin needs love in any particular area, it would be in Shadow Stepping. My assassin can blow his Energy dealing damage and defending himself. This allows no spare energy for Shadow Stepping. Not only that, but I feel the cool downs are too lengthy. Shadow Stepping is our stealth, and I feel it should be as accessable as our attacks. The more I got the feel for the Assassin, the more I removed Shadow Stepping abilities from my skill bar. There were just far too many abilities that were better.

BooteLuv
27-03-2006, 23:52
I killed a lot of assassins this weekend with empathy and mesmers also have a new interrupt spell that stops any action including signets.

Chemical Ali
28-03-2006, 02:53
I almost completely agree with Xender Voth and I, as well, have "played the hell out of the assassin this weekend." Though I will be happy if I can use Death's Charge without getting stuck in a wall (or on a blade of grass or uneven dirt) come release, let alone have a less than 45 second cool down, which I think is fair since it costs only 5, happens almost instantly, and can really break through the defenses and catch more vulnerable targets off guard.

Anyway, I believe the assassin to be true to its name. It is perfect for isolating a target, such as a monk, and taking it out stealthilty and quickly. There are several ways around evasion/blocking and Way of the Fox is just one of them. I prefer Wild Blow as it can be used constantly, with an energy as well as damage bonus, and ends stances.

Due to, almost specifically, guardian and aegis, I keep my combos short and choose skills that don't take too long to reload. My favorite over the weekend being; Leaping Mantis Strike, Temple Strike, Twisting Fangs. Just pulling off the first two attacks here can devastate, and even when my first attempt fails, I still have Wild Blow to fall back on, and can make a second attempt at the combo shortly. Another option for dealing with failed combos is buffing your normal attack with skills such as Critical Eye (awsome), and Locust's Fury.

Yes, curses like Empathy and Spiteful Spirit are detrimental to the Assassin, but, sometimes, I will attack right into it, finishing my target and, perhaps, myself. An eye for an eye. Of course many other things can be factored in, like the fact that I took out a primary target like a monk, while all my team lost was an extra damage dealer. Yet, this is not always the case, and if it were, then Assassins would be too good. One thing I look forward to in Factions is the possibility of primary hex removers, due to some of the new spells such as Expel Hexes.

jibikao
29-03-2006, 22:02
Well, Wards also give Sins nightmare just like how they give nightmare to Warriors.

Basically, almost everything Warriors suffer, Assassins suffer. But I have to say Assassins are much better against Monk than Warriors.

Haven't really tried Asn but they seem very fragile in Preview. I am sure people will figure out how to use them once Faction comes out.

Colretsun Andolin
30-03-2006, 02:16
Good luck finding a team that doesn't run Aegis/Guardian/wards/stances.

Because every team has perma Aegis, or guardian maintained on everyone, or sit in wards all day, or have block/evade stances.

Aegis is costly, but can still ruin your day as a sin. The goal of a spiking sin is to get in get your combo off then get out, hopefully you can do that before a monk can get off guardian. I don't play HoH much, so ward against melee isn't a huge problem. Stances are pretty effective at shutting you down, so you would need to quick switch your target.

Don't say you need Way of the Fox to be a good sin, since I managed to kill quality distortion/crip shot rangers using the sin build I posted.