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bellissima
25-03-2006, 14:11
Okay,

so I had a lot of fun running a Ritualist around Cantha for hours last night. I decided to try running a healing bar. Specifically, I was playing around with the combination of Infuse Health and Generous Was Tsungrai.

The premise is this:
a) You summon the Ashes of Tsungrai. This increases your max health by 120 or so.
b) You can now heal with Infuse Health for a whopping 388 if you need to save someone's life. This sacrifices 1/2 your life.
c) You drop the urn and gain back all the life you just sacrificed.

I found I was wanting to use this against the Oni mobs because they seemed to be able to spike down my teammates before I could lay seed and through whatever heals the healer hench was using.

BUT... I ran into a problem. I discovered that I was having a really hard time keeping aggro off me. Even though I was waaay in the back, mobs would suddenly break off and attack me. And no amount of running around would shake them. I was beginning to think I was a total noob for not being able to manage the aggro.

Then it dawned on me... I was only having this trouble during the times that I was holding the Urn in my hands. So I modified my usage of the urn to only summon it after an infuse and drop it immediately to gain my health back. This use successfully avoided stealing aggro. I found that holding it for longer than a second was sufficient to pull aggro on myself. Urns seem to fall in the same category as the infamous SF gears and kegs.

So! Let's talk about it. What other aggro strategies have you been using when running urn skills in your bar? Has the aggro-magnet property of an urn been a problem for you? Have you used it to your advantage?

One use I can think of immediately is that W/Rts could "gear" tank for any farmable area of the game. :fortuneteller:

zweistein
25-03-2006, 14:59
Well, after toying with my Rit, i must say, that URN efect are quite weak compared to grear. Sure enemies come at you noticeably more, but not always and usually not all of them.

At beginig, i thought that URN make do not magmet at all (try comparing carying kurzick suplies with carying urn. its way too much.)

Anyway:

Attuned was songkai is great way to manage energy (combined with Boon of creation, it makes Rt/N MM viable, but harder to micromanage)

Mighty Was Vorizun is my favourite so far: nice armor bonus (replacing shield) with nice energy bonus (outdoing any wand/focus/staff combo) is just so cool, its easy to get to last over recharge and i think that THAT will be THE stance tank.

Goldfish God
25-03-2006, 15:45
I was using Resilient was Ziko (or whatever the condition-restoration pot is called) for its low cost, rapid cast/reload so I could combo the "if holding item.." spells and still manage all-hench by being able to attack.

Rakgar
25-03-2006, 15:46
Well, after toying with my Rit, i must say, that URN efect are quite weak compared to grear. I'm in complete agreement. I played with a ritualist almost the entire day yesterday and found them to be fairly versatile to say the least. I used Generous for much of the morning since it seemed a great self-heal and noticed I do draw a little more aggro, but not any significant amount. Most of those fights I'd cast Generous and then keep it up throughout nearly the entire fight incase I needed it. I found that unless I was the first enemy the mobs saw and they all came after me I would not draw any away generally.

Also I would say that the ritualist has so many -strong- self healing spells that Generous and it's aggro effects are simply unnecessary. If you've had the chance to unlock Spirit Transfer, you will see what I mean. It takes X (38 @ 11 restoration) health from -one- spirit around you (vs all spirits as originally made) and heals target ally (so you too) for 4 (fixed) that amount.
So basically at 11 restoration you have a healing skill that costs 5e, casts in 1/4s, has ZERO recharge and heals for 152hp. I found that using spirits that do not kill themselves (like Union or Shelter) such as Pain, Shadowsong, The LIFE spirit (very useful for this) I could outheal 3-4 players hammering on me without even using a tank or protection setup.

QuixotesGhost
25-03-2006, 16:12
YOU ARE FREAKING KIDDING ME.

They dupicated the Gear effect with Urns?

Whoever is behind GW PvE needs to be shot. It's source of constant amazement
to me that the SF and FoW tricks have been allowed to go on for as long as they have.

If this effect makes it into the finished game, I think I'll start looking for an new MMO.



Mighty Was Vorizun is my favourite so far: nice armor bonus (replacing shield) with nice energy bonus (outdoing any wand/focus/staff combo) is just so cool, its easy to get to last over recharge and i think that THAT will be THE stance tank.


If my warrior is forced to hold some godamn item like an idiot wherever he goes, I swear to God....

nkuvu
25-03-2006, 16:28
I didn't play Ritualist a lot yesterday, mostly Assassin. But I did find an urn that knocked down adjacent enemies. So I'd bet that this would be a very nice time to draw aggro.

They all run up to you, they all fall down. Eeee.

slimreb
25-03-2006, 18:59
I didn't play Ritualist a lot yesterday, mostly Assassin. But I did find an urn that knocked down adjacent enemies. So I'd bet that this would be a very nice time to draw aggro.

They all run up to you, they all fall down. Eeee.

You are talking about Grasping was Kuurong. I am really having some fun with that spell. I am running a Rt/E using channeling/Earth. I usually cast this before battle so that I can get my energy back as it last for I think 49 seconds or so. I then run in to draw aggro. Once enough things are on me it is time to drop the urn, cast Aftershock, then unload on PBAoE while using Armor of Earth and Sliver Armor.

This has been very effective in PvE. I have also had much success with it in PvP also.

bellissima
25-03-2006, 20:40
You are talking about Grasping was Kuurong. I am really having some fun with that spell. I am running a Rt/E using channeling/Earth. I usually cast this before battle so that I can get my energy back as it last for I think 49 seconds or so. I then run in to draw aggro. Once enough things are on me it is time to drop the urn, cast Aftershock, then unload on PBAoE while using Armor of Earth and Sliver Armor.

This has been very effective in PvE. I have also had much success with it in PvP also.

Yeah this build is neato, I started running something similar earlier today. They don't give too many earth spells to start with but at least you don't have to spend a skill point on aftershock. The new earth armor spell is neato too.

I capped a rit elite today called Clamour of Souls that basically does damage to nearby foes. So taking Blind was Mingsoon you could attract a bunch of aggro, drop the vase to blind them all and then let rip with Clamour and Spirit Rift.

Finn
26-03-2006, 01:06
Up until this weekend it had been hinted to us that the urns and ashes would not cause aggro the same way that gears and books did. I think I would have really enjoyed my ritualist if this had been the case. What happened?

Spoil of War
26-03-2006, 01:49
I definitely think they need to dial it down a bit. I've stopped using urns entirely due to the fact they pull silly amounts of an aggro to a job that's not designed to handle it.

Erasculio
26-03-2006, 03:17
I definitely think they need to dial it down a bit. I've stopped using urns entirely due to the fact they pull silly amounts of an aggro to a job that's not designed to handle it.
I have felt more or less the same - on the Kuzick's part of the game, whenever I take an Urn all the melee enemies will turn and kill me. This is weaker for the casters, but having all those Assassins striking at me is enough to kill in two seconds, and then bye bye henchie party.

So no more Urns here, until I can find a way to use that Aggro effect for my benefit.

Erasculio

Bram Stoker
26-03-2006, 03:25
I definitely think they need to dial it down a bit. I've stopped using urns entirely due to the fact they pull silly amounts of an aggro to a job that's not designed to handle it.
Couldn't agree more, trying a ritualist in the FPE just felt like an exercise in frustration as mob after mob chased me around the map, even when I wasn't in the mob's agro circle, and mobs even running past the rest of the team to reach me :angry:
Are they meant to be this ...awkward... to play, or was I just handling it badly - mind you I stuck with the default FPE skill bar at first

Jozvex Spellsharp
26-03-2006, 05:55
Yes "the urn effect" is too strong. I could be wrong, but I think if someone in your party has a mission for that same area that requires carrying an object (like the supplies) then the mobs think your Urn IS the supplies, making the effect even stronger.

Yesterday my party of 8 used this as a winning tactic and it was silly. I was a Rit and summoned some ashes, no matter what was attacking whom, ALL aggro immediately switched to me and let everyone regen back to full health while the 2 or 3 healers kept me alive. Then I'd drop the ashes and bam......no more aggro on me. We did this over and over and it worked everytime!

hotdogtesting
26-03-2006, 05:58
YOU ARE FREAKING KIDDING ME.

They dupicated the Gear effect with Urns?

Whoever is behind GW PvE needs to be shot. It's source of constant amazement
to me that the SF and FoW tricks have been allowed to go on for as long as they have.

If this effect makes it into the finished game, I think I'll start looking for an new MMO.



If my warrior is forced to hold some godamn item like an idiot wherever he goes, I swear to God....


I have felt more or less the same - on the Kuzick's part of the game, whenever I take an Urn all the melee enemies will turn and kill me. This is weaker for the casters, but having all those Assassins striking at me is enough to kill in two seconds, and then bye bye henchie party.

So no more Urns here, until I can find a way to use that Aggro effect for my benefit.

Erasculio

On the contrary, I think it is perfectly fine where it is. For ages now, I've been using that in conjunction with my Desperate Dolyak module. It's an excellent way of tanking for my party.

Really, this is just another example of the spacial control that ANet is talking about. The urn doesn't have as much effect as say holding a tome, but it does have some effect. So a well placed war/rit doing this could be the ultimate tank for his/her party.

QuixotesGhost
26-03-2006, 06:44
On the contrary, I think it is perfectly fine where it is. For ages now, I've been using that in conjunction with my Desperate Dolyak module. It's an excellent way of tanking for my party.

Really, this is just another example of the spacial control that ANet is talking about. The urn doesn't have as much effect as say holding a tome, but it does have some effect. So a well placed war/rit doing this could be the ultimate tank for his/her party.

The whole concept is retarded. A guy holds some random item, the PvE mobs go "DUR" only attack the guy with the item and makes PvE so rediculously easy it isn't even funny.

It don't care how effective it is, it makes PvE boring as ****.

Why doesn't Anet just give us a "Win" button for PvE while thier at it, just to save us the bother and time. What's the point anymore?

Goldfish God
26-03-2006, 06:53
I think I've found the Vengeful was (someone) Elite ash-pot boss. The ashpot that steals health of anyone who attacks you. I'll try and pick it up tommorow, if I don't get Weapon of Quickness first. :laugh:

Tessalina
26-03-2006, 08:42
A useful substitute for Generous was Tsungrai that I've found is Vital Weapon at just 8 communing it is:

5 energy, 1 second cast, 20 recast: target ally has a vital weapon and has +112 max health for 30 seconds. Communing boosts the max health amount raised, but the 30 second duration is static. So, you can easily always keep this on a single person.

The added bonus of this is you keep all your weapon stats which you lose when holding an urn, and it doesn't generate "urn aggro". You do, however, lose the healing effect when you drop Tsungrai's ashes, but if you are just looking for a max health booster only, Vital Weapon is probably preferable.

Bel Ebih
26-03-2006, 09:46
I was actually having trouble with it until I came across a little something: channeling urns + earth = pve ownage. Seriously. I'm set as Rt/E right now. This is my bar:

Channeling 12
Earth 12
Restoration 3
(Haven't found any runes yet.)

Destruction
Gaze from Beyond
Ancestor's Rage
Grasping Was Kuurong {E}
Aftershock
Sliver Armor
Ward Againsnt Melee
Flesh of My Flesh

First you lay down Destruction on the spot where you gonna base yourself. Use Grasping, and while all the aggro is coming towards you, put up Ward Against Melee. When everything is right near you, cast Silver Armor. Between the Ward and Silver Armor, you will bearly take any hits except from spells. Now, Gaze any target to lower the health of the spirit, and then go Ancestor's Rage (big aoe damage), drop urn (KD+dmg), Aftershock (big aoe dmg), and finish something off with another Gaze which will probably kill the spirit by then and cause mas aoe dmg that will finish off anything that's left. The only variant here is when Destruction goes off, cause it can get killed before you Gaze with it or it could just end on its own.

I've been using this for most of all the preview PvE and has made going through everything with henchies a lot easier. The new healer and prot henchies are excellent, so as long as you have them near, you should be able to pull it off every time. Well unless you aggro more that 2 groups in which case that would simply dumb. :tongue:

Edit: Forgot to mention another variation you can try. Switch grasping for Cruel Was Daoshen, take out Aftershock, and use Shockwave for your Elite. It feels like closed quarters nuking. :grin:

Longasc
26-03-2006, 12:33
Whoever is behind GW PvE needs to be shot. It's source of constant amazement to me that the SF and FoW tricks have been allowed to go on for as long as they have.

I 100% agree. This will make PvE again super easy and boring.

LFG 5 man party to farm XXXX - need W/Rt.


They made a farming spot out of Sorrow's Furnace, most groups going to FoW farm Shards if they do not solo the Spiders, well... even Thunderhead Keep loses a lot of its difficulty with that trick.


Why do they design "challenging" PvE areas if you can make them all equally idiot proof with a trick that is almost an exploit?

I hoped they dropped the model of aggro on holding gears and other items. :angry:

Longasc
26-03-2006, 12:38
To take away the pain of thinking how to exploit this:

W/Rt.

Sentinel Armor (100 AR), 13+ Strength.

Endure Pain, Dolyak Signet, Gladiators Defense, Bonetti Defense, Watch Yourself... perhaps Soothing Memories to support those healing you a bit, maybe someone finds fancy tactics to do something else besides standing there.


This will spread like a pestilence, I must probably play through the game with henchies if I do not want an "Urn-holder" to make every explorable area a farming run... :/

Spoil of War
26-03-2006, 15:11
On the contrary, I think it is perfectly fine where it is. For ages now, I've been using that in conjunction with my Desperate Dolyak module. It's an excellent way of tanking for my party.

Really, this is just another example of the spacial control that ANet is talking about. The urn doesn't have as much effect as say holding a tome, but it does have some effect. So a well placed war/rit doing this could be the ultimate tank for his/her party.
Sure it may well be fine for tanking W/Rts who would rather use an exlploit than skill, but if in the process it messes over the players who want to be a Rt/X then it's nothing to do with spacial control. It's a mistake.

Lord Melvin
26-03-2006, 20:13
I have also been using my Ritualist as ash tank, and it works very well and makes things very easy. The thing is, you can use it to kill things extremely fast as well. When you have around 10 guys (or more) attacking you, and you put sliver armor on yourself, some poor soul near you is going to die really fast. I was also taking Shockwave with me, which at 12 earth magic does 123 earth damage to all the foes right next to you. The elite vengeful ashes that Goldfish God mentioned earlier would be better for this, but I still need to go out and find the guy in Rhea's Crater again.

As far as keeping aggro, I find it helps to sometimes drop the ones you're holding and cast again, because it does seem to be weaker than gears, books, etc. and recasting the ashes helps to maintain aggro or get more.

This works so well for tanking, I managed to beat the Gyala Hatchery mission with just henchman. It is worth mentioning however, that while the siege turtles are still alive, the Juggernauts will just ignore your ashes and walk straight to the siege turtles. After they kill the siege turtles though, they will go for the ashes and not the baby turtles.

Artemis Shadowhawk
27-03-2006, 00:29
I just ended up using pots to two-man farm with a Monk. I switched to Rt/E and just used AoE. I wasn't even abusing it and it was still abuse.

bellissima
27-03-2006, 16:23
I think I'm tending to agree with those that don't like this property of urns. I played Rt with hench the whole weekend, and found myself using urns to make it way easier.

Anytime the hench started getting overwhelmed, I summoned an urn and kited until they recovered. The urns were also instrumental in saving the lives of the tree singers on the eternal grove mission. Suddenly because I'm holding a pot of ashes I'm more important than the Luxons' primary target and the mission is really easy from there on out. I guess PvE is a lot about abusing whatever flaws the current AI has, but I felt kinda dirty after using this.

Rayne Frostbite
27-03-2006, 22:25
Has anyone tried those elite ashes that basically work like Weapon of Vengeance on crack? Could be real suicidal for melee mobs... :wink:

ccrazool
27-03-2006, 22:45
The urn effect is of great concern to me. As I said in my giant disertation (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=391512) on this subject, I'm concerned that if they do not fix this, the entire PvE experience will degrade to "ash-tank, nuker, nuker, healer, bonder", and primary Ritualists in their 60-AL armor will either ignore the ashes skills entirely or only use them when doing so won't cause horrible consequences. I sincerely hope they correct it before release.

Lord Melvin
28-03-2006, 06:12
Has anyone tried those elite ashes that basically work like Weapon of Vengeance on crack? Could be real suicidal for melee mobs... :wink:

Yea I capped them and used them with Armor of Earth, and it makes you basically invincible, even though it's not as much life steal as Vengeful Weapon. at 12 Restoration, you can keep it up almost half the time, and it only costs 5 energy. Then you can just use Generous was Tsungrai inbetween.

I think the game would be a lot more interesting if they removed aggro from held items such as ashes, but it seems that a lot of the Ritualist skills were made with ash aggro in mind.

If they wanted to make the AI "smart," perhaps they could have the mobs switch to a different target when they're being unsuccessful on one. There is no way a whole group of "smart" human players would sit there beating on a target when its hurts them to do so, and they can tell they're not going to kill it anytime soon.

hotdogtesting
28-03-2006, 08:41
Sure it may well be fine for tanking W/Rts who would rather use an exlploit than skill, but if in the process it messes over the players who want to be a Rt/X then it's nothing to do with spacial control. It's a mistake.

Why would you consider this an exploit?

The game AI always treats those without a weapon and shield as an easy target. Since they go after the easy target first... this is really just a way of outsmarting them.

Aside from this, if it really was an "exploit" why would ANet specifically include something that plays upon the idea of drawing aggro from holding something? Specifically, you get bonuses for holding the item... instead of the old plain Tome.

Rakgar
28-03-2006, 16:26
There is no way a whole group of "smart" human players would sit there beating on a target when its hurts them to do so, and they can tell they're not going to kill it anytime soon.
:huh: Play a monk and take a trip down to the random arenas. An entire party of "smart" human players will instantly blitz right for you, try their best to kill you quickly and even continue with the beating even when you're proving too tough to kill. Some people wise up and eventually try to take out an easier target, but not the majority.

Lord Melvin
28-03-2006, 19:22
:huh: Play a monk and take a trip down to the random arenas. An entire party of "smart" human players will instantly blitz right for you, try their best to kill you quickly and even continue with the beating even when you're proving too tough to kill. Some people wise up and eventually try to take out an easier target, but not the majority.

That's Random Arenas with only 4 people, I meant groups of at least 8 (sorry, I should have been more specific). In the Gyala Hatchery mission, I had to tank something like 15 or 20 Kurzicks at once. Now, if it were you, and you outnumber your enemy at least 2:1, you're all attacking the same target, and you can't kill it, do you keep attacking that same target while giant turtles with cannons blow you to pieces? That is when you usually spread out and take out their support.

takhun rad takhun
28-03-2006, 23:40
well for one i noticed that if u are holding an urn and u are using henchies, u can not initiate the henchies to attack because u cannot. this is a problem that needs to be adressed. if u are going with henchies and they do nothing but watch u get destroyed as all the aggro goes to u (ur holding an item) then there is no point of even attempting to run as a rit if u consider using hecnhmen

Longasc
28-03-2006, 23:49
You can CALL a target, they will attack.
(CTRL click)

But still, the issue of the urn/ash aggromagnet remains.

Lord Melvin
29-03-2006, 00:23
well for one i noticed that if u are holding an urn and u are using henchies, u can not initiate the henchies to attack because u cannot. this is a problem that needs to be adressed. if u are going with henchies and they do nothing but watch u get destroyed as all the aggro goes to u (ur holding an item) then there is no point of even attempting to run as a rit if u consider using hecnhmen

As soon as you take damage from a foe, the henchies will jump into combat, it's just that they will attack whoever they feel like. To coordinate them, or send them in first, call a target like Longasc said.

neoflame
29-03-2006, 00:51
:huh: Play a monk and take a trip down to the random arenas. An entire party of "smart" human players
Erroneous; this is assuming that random arena parties consist of smart human players. In any case, with a competent healer up as the only monk on a RA team, the healer is the easiest player to take down, because nothing else will die first.

Rakgar
29-03-2006, 01:16
Erroneous; this is assuming that random arena parties consist of smart human players.
Ok, you have me there. Though personally I prefer it when people mindlessly continue to attack just me as a protection monk. Unless they brought lots of energy denial or enchantment removal it isn't likely to work which just frees up my teammates to gut them from behind. It's easier to heal one person constantly than be constantly changing targets and keeping within healing range if they're dumb and run all over.

Gangrel
29-03-2006, 21:58
http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=383267

That is just freaking hilarious...

That subject has been brought up long time ago and they said there was no such thing. Yeah right...

bellissima
29-03-2006, 22:24
http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=383267

That is just freaking hilarious...

Beta tester my behind!! That subject has been brought up long time ago and they said there was no such thing. Yeah right...

Hmm interesting. So TBMaurauder said that this Urn aggro didn't exist when he was beta testing the game. Do you think that the fact it exists now is a feature or a regression? i.e. did Anet deliberately introduce this behavior back into the game for the preview event or was it an unintentional side-effect of other updates?

Or I guess the third option (the one Gangrel is implying) is that this behavior did in fact exist in the alpha/beta and TB was just mistaken.

Gangrel
29-03-2006, 22:34
I don't think they coded that on purpose. I think that is just a game mechanics (if someone is holding an item -> KILL HIM!!), but the weird [art is that the topic has been brought up many times, and they had enough time to exclude the urns from the 'hot' items. They know it's hard for the ritualist to use it to normally play the game, but is excelent for the farming parties.. It just makes no sense..

Longasc
29-03-2006, 23:03
Seems as if the Ritualist betatesters were as blindfold as real ritualists.

Sorry that this sounds harsh, but claiming that this behaviour did not exist while it obviously existed in the FPE can only lead to Bellissima's conclusions.

Option 3, a blatant oversight, is most likely. It is quite disappointing that this both slipped through Alpha- and Betatesting.

Time to wear sackcloth and ashes for them.

Erasculio
29-03-2006, 23:14
Seems as if the Ritualist betatesters were as blindfold as real ritualists.
Guys, calm down a bit on the insults. We don't even know if this was added later, if Marauder's "not overly so" didn't just mean that the effect wouldn't be as stronger as the one for the Gears (and it kind of isn't), etc...Let's at least give him the benefit of doubt before grabing the torches.

Erasculio

Artemis Shadowhawk
29-03-2006, 23:20
Yeah I agree with Erasculio. Even if TBMarauder was wrong, it didn't do anyone any harm. Anyways, he's a Moderator. That's like trying to insult a cop. Things just don't turn out well.

ccrazool
30-03-2006, 01:07
Let's at least give him the benefit of doubt before grabing the torches.

Well, bear in mind, of course, that if you grab the torches, then all of the mobs will aggro on you...


:azn:

Longasc
30-03-2006, 02:07
Yeah I agree with Erasculio. Even if TBMarauder was wrong, it didn't do anyone any harm. Anyways, he's a Moderator. That's like trying to insult a cop. Things just don't turn out well.

I hope that moderators have some more common sense. TBMarauder is not going to get all the blame for the disaster, and it is up to him to tell us what went wrong.

This urn thing did not harm anyone, interesting. Nobody got harmed physically of course, but gameplay - you experienced urns/ashes and their effect yourself.


Is this exploit/trick with the gears not known for 3-4 months by now? And nobody, neither ANet, Alpha- and Betatesters noticed the effect of urns?

I accuse them of not having taken enough care. Seems as if nobody feels responsible, it was nobodys fault, and nobody from ANet or a known Beta Testers felt obliged (limited by NDA of course) to give some information on this issue so far.

Artemis Shadowhawk
30-03-2006, 03:17
I hope that moderators have some more common sense. TBMarauder is not going to get all the blame for the disaster, and it is up to him to tell us what went wrong.

This urn thing did not harm anyone, interesting. Nobody got harmed physically of course, but gameplay - you experienced urns/ashes and their effect yourself.

Is this exploit/trick with the gears not known for 3-4 months by now? And nobody, neither ANet, Alpha- and Betatesters noticed the effect of urns?

I accuse them of not having taken enough care. Seems as if nobody feels responsible, it was nobodys fault, and nobody from ANet or a known Beta Testers felt obliged (limited by NDA of course) to give some information on this issue so far.Wow you're really upset about this. I'm not even going to try to explain that this is just a minor detail of a game and that insults and accusations aren't worth it. So lighten up, it's just a game.

Gangrel
30-03-2006, 11:21
Guys, calm down a bit on the insults. We don't even know if this was added later, if Marauder's "not overly so" didn't just mean that the effect wouldn't be as stronger as the one for the Gears (and it kind of isn't), etc...Let's at least give him the benefit of doubt before grabing the torches.

Erasculio

That's even worse!! because it means they actually worked on this effect and had it planned. If they could tone it down a bit, they could as easily just turne it off.

people were concerened, and were askiugn questions about this. And A BETA TESTER informed us that all will be well (in a way) and that we shouldn't worry, cause monsters onlt go nuts about items from that specific zone - urns aren't zone specific.

But The problem does exist, and the fact that Anet actually worked on it (the lessened effect) proves they intended it to work that way. And since it only benefits farming parites and the "easy way out" PvE players, I have no idea what was their intention... Either someone made a big mistake (bugs happen)
or they have a twisted sense of PvE gameplay.

Longasc
30-03-2006, 11:23
I cannot understand how my posting is an INSULT at all.

Suddenly urns and ashes are a minor detail. (!)

People already complained several times in Site feedback about any negative feedback getting curbed down, this site being full of fanbois. No wonder why if this is already seen as an insult.

There is NOTHING wrong with pointing out this and various other issues. I accuse ANet and the tester team to have terribly failed. You do not make something better if you gloss over it.

I see a huge difference between telling people that they messed something up and insulting them. They might not like my claim, but I did not swear or curse at them.

Artemis Shadowhawk
30-03-2006, 16:05
I cannot understand how my posting is an INSULT at all.
Seems as if the Ritualist betatesters were as blindfold as real ritualists.Ok.

Urns are a minor detail. If you don't like them; don't use them. Use them in PvP. Make a build that works with it. Don't play a Ritualist. Don't play Guild Wars. Trust me, ANet knows what happens in their game. If there is a magnetic effect, it's because they are allowing it. Just because you coulnd't work with it, doesn't mean they're going to remove it or that they are blind to it. Perhaps they were even testing the impact of urns this weekend. If you like the way Guild Wars is now, then give them the benefit of the doubt. Obviously they've been doing a good job so far. Finally, this was a pre-release preview and thusly, is most likely not complete as games like Guild Wars are constantly being updated. So just wait and see what happens.

Please voice your opinions on the topic but don't start a flame war hurling arround accusations and insults.

380 Realm
30-03-2006, 16:50
I skipped most of the posts so if my question was already answered, I apologize. What do monsters have against a person holding an object, such as an urn, and focus all their attacks on that person alone until it's dropped? I'm just trying to understand the logic behind this.

bellissima
30-03-2006, 16:53
Ok.

Urns are a minor detail. If you don't like them; don't use them. Use them in PvP. Make a build that works with it. Don't play a Ritualist. Don't play Guild Wars.

I dislike when people take the "you don't like it, don't use it" attitude... It's just not helpful.


Trust me, ANet knows what happens in their game. If there is a magnetic effect, it's because they are allowing it. Just because you coulnd't work with it, doesn't mean they're going to remove it or that they are blind to it. Perhaps they were even testing the impact of urns this weekend. If you like the way Guild Wars is now, then give them the benefit of the doubt. Obviously they've been doing a good job so far. Finally, this was a pre-release preview and thusly, is most likely not complete as games like Guild Wars are constantly being updated. So just wait and see what happens.

First of all, if they knew everything there would be no need for beta testing.

Second of all, I think these preview events are also forms of beta testing. I see nothing wrong with providing feedback on stuff we liked and stuff we didn't. I think the majority of these posts were people complaining that the urn aggro was too exploitable, not that they couldn't work with it.


I see a lot of threads degenerate into "you can't change it so stop whining about it" but I like to think that Anet reads these forums. And just maybe some of our opinions do make a difference. :cloud9:

And...


Well, bear in mind, of course, that if you grab the torches, then all of the mobs will aggro on you...

rofl Borlis Pass ftw!

Artemis Shadowhawk
30-03-2006, 17:14
I didn't say just stop doing it. Sure that's an option, but if you notice, I said please voice your opinions just do so without insults and accusations. It's a problem we know that. I'd like it fixed also. I've voiced that opinion. However, I didn't start accusing ANet of failing or TBMarauder of being blind. I don't want to see another flame war, but instead constructive opinions that actually hold validity instead of just "it didn't work for me, so ANet is bad."

And for my occificial stance on the situation:
I want it changed. I think that the magnet-effect saps the flavor of urns by making them a one-trick-pony instead of a useful boon to Ritualist casters. By allowing this effect, it degrades PvE and hurts ritualists. So, yes, it should be changed.

Just we don't have to resort to blames and insults to get that point across.

Erasculio
31-03-2006, 18:13
I cannot understand how my posting is an INSULT at all.

Longasc, I don't think this...


I hope that moderators have some more common sense. TBMarauder is not going to get all the blame for the disaster, and it is up to him to tell us what went wrong.

This urn thing did not harm anyone, interesting. Nobody got harmed physically of course, but gameplay - you experienced urns/ashes and their effect yourself.


Is this exploit/trick with the gears not known for 3-4 months by now? And nobody, neither ANet, Alpha- and Betatesters noticed the effect of urns?

I accuse them of not having taken enough care. Seems as if nobody feels responsible, it was nobodys fault, and nobody from ANet or a known Beta Testers felt obliged (limited by NDA of course) to give some information on this issue so far.

...Is an insult.

But this...


Seems as if the Ritualist betatesters were as blindfold as real ritualists.

(...)

Time to wear sackcloth and ashes for them.

...Is.

I had a big "WTF!?" when I saw the aggro effect of Urns. I thought Arena Net messed it hugely when they created such effect, I think the Gear trick is an aberration that should have been removed from the game a long time ago. I also remembered Marauder's comment hinting that such effect did not exist. To make it short, I'm not trying to defend Guild Wars.

What I am trying to do, is keep discussion here civil, as it has been in, say, the last page. Comments saying that "Marauder is blind!" and "Arena Net is idiot" (not that anyone has said the later) are, in my opinion, insults - to say "didn't Marauder see this?" and "How could Arena Net leave this in" isn't insultive (IMO IMO). I would love if people could stick to the later kind of coment, and avoid the former (despite how frustrating this issue is).

Erasculio

Spoil of War
31-03-2006, 18:20
I do find it surprising though that in all the months of alpha testing, they haven't noticed this. Yet it just takes us one weekend, and it's glaringly obvious.

Gangrel
31-03-2006, 19:45
I had a big "WTF!?" when I saw the aggro effect of Urns. I thought Arena Net messed it hugely when they created such effect, I think the Gear trick is an aberration that should have been removed from the game a long time ago. I also remembered Marauder's comment hinting that such effect did not exist. To make it short, I'm not trying to defend Guild Wars.

What I am trying to do, is keep discussion here civil, as it has been in, say, the last page. Comments saying that "Marauder is blind!" and "Arena Net is idiot" (not that anyone has said the later) are, in my opinion, insults - to say "didn't Marauder see this?" and "How could Arena Net leave this in" isn't insultive (IMO IMO). I would love if people could stick to the later kind of coment, and avoid the former (despite how frustrating this issue is).

Erasculio


"Bypassing word filter" right back at you :grin:


This is obvious that Anet knew about this (you said yourself the effect is lessend, and people asked about it months ago..), the question is why did they leave it in the game?? What purpose do they have in mind for this trick??

TBMarauder
02-04-2006, 01:26
Can I just mention one thing most of the posters seem to be ignoring here?

You have all thus far ONLY had BETA exposure to 'GW: Factions'.

Ipso facto, you just experienced what you were 'shown' of Factions, in an unfinished and incomplete state.

Has it 'gone Gold' yet? Er ... ok, nuff said.

As for the insults, pffft! I thought this Ritualist forum was developing into quite a nice place to come and read-up and contribute to. - Can we maybe get it back to that, before it slides into chaos?

Pertinently though, I have been having back treatment at a hospital in London recently (hence the hitherto silence here), and will be again for the next three weeks and requested Erasculio come aboard to assist me in the general moderating of this board, as well as 'filling my shoes' in my absence.

I in no way intended for this change to be a 'red flag' for this forum to become a public slanging match, finally degenerating into flaming and ultimate thread closures.

Think back also to posts regarding the question of the 'static' and immovable nature of the Ritualist's 'Binding Ritual'-created spirits? Then, during the FPE you witnessed 'Draw Spirit'. - Wait until GW:F is actually released, then post about a 'finished product'.

So, finally please do bear in mind that:

1). I am not available to comment much for the next few weeks
2). This SUPPOSED to be a nice place. Erasculio is a Moderator here and should be respected as such (not to mention my due respect in absence)
3). I have not commented at all on 'cogs', nor 'books' and suchlike
4). You have by no stretch of your wildest imaginations seen 'the final product' in Factions, yet. - So pre-determination or pre-judgment is wasted, hot air.

Regards,
/\/\.

Shadow Dancer
02-04-2006, 01:43
Good point well made. We haven't seen the final version of Factions, and Draw Spirit did indeed silence a lot of critics.

However, I think that one of the benefits for Anet in giving us the beta weekend was so that we could make our feelings known about certain issues so that they would be in a position to make alterations (If they have to) before the final version.

So if Anet are reading this thread, hopefully they can see that the aggro-magnet characteristic of the urns as we experienced in the beta is not popular.

If the full game is different to the beta in this regard then great, if it's not, then hopefully Anet can take this feedback on board. Everyone wins.

Archangel Raguil
03-04-2006, 19:04
http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=392532


I know about urns, aggro, and the whole nine yards, yes. Not fun, I agree, and it will be addressed, yes.

So it seems Urn aggro will be taken care of... no need to worry anymore :)