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Master Divine
04-04-2006, 04:52
I personally think that the assasin shouldnt just get two daggers but maybe a katana and or a chinese broadsword thrown in their two but of course if i wanted to use these i would just chose a warrior however i know many a person who would prefir to use a katana without having to be half warrior

I mainly brought this point up becuse i'm getting a katana in a few weeks :grin: just looking for oppinions not really any logic but what do you all think should we only be able to use certain types of swords and not maybe call them "daggers" instead. Just historicaly accurate not much knowledge in this post

The Experimentor
04-04-2006, 07:22
Sorry, I disagree.

However cool an Assassin with a katana is, it's not really appropriate.

The concept behind the Assassin in GW is more of the killer who slips in quickly and unseen, strikes quickly, cleanly and effectively, then escapes as soon as the deed is done. Okay, so the target in GW usually notices the hostile player character moving towards him and begins to dukes it out first, but Assassins are essentially murderers, cutthroats and sneaks...

... not Warriors.

Daggers are their chosen weapon because they're easily concealed, wielded and more accurate than swords, especially as far as stabbing or slashing vital points are concerned, like a jugular. This is not just the case for Japanese ninja, btu every kind of assassin from world history and even fantasy: Italian Renaissance killers with stilettos; the original anti-Crusader arabic agents; etc.

Swords are for battle, with more emphasis on strength, hitting and cutting power, leverage and size. Power is more important. Using a katana for assassination purposes (specifically, sneaking up on someone from behind) can be awkward- hard to conceal; you need room to swing or thrust; you can't just wrap it around a person's neck to slit the throat. A katana got its power from the curved length of the blade, that allowed running, slashing attacks to go through flesh with ease.

We're only thinking of an Assassin as a katana user because the game treats every GW assassination attempt as a fight, rather than a sneak-up-and-kill thing. It's also because we think a ninja with a sword is cool.

We have to differentiate ninja from ninja warrior. Ninjas who hold his own against dedicated fighters like samurai were more akin to samurai and very different from conventional ninjas.

I think the idea of an Assassin with a Katana or Jitte is cool, but I believe it should remain in the realm of A/W's, rather than Assassin primaries in general.

Lastly, from fantasy: one of the most popular assassin characters is D&D/Forgotten Realms' Artemis Entreri. But if you look at Entreri's stats, he's not merely a rogue but a fighter/rogue multiclass with more specialization in the fighter side.

Master Divine
04-04-2006, 15:16
He He yep your completly right :smiley: and such is the way of an assasin, ninja to have daggers. It seemed to me though that the assasin in guild wars was a bit more of a direct assasilent becuse of his charge right at the opponet seemed more...samuri like. I think they should get an ability that instead of shadow stepping right infront of them they appear behind them.

I agree once the assasin gets into the combat then he starts becoming more ninja like but while he is charging at the person its like a warrior.

What do you think?

Shadow Dancer
04-04-2006, 15:44
I think daggers are perfect for Assassins. I'm a little disappointed that they haven't (At least YET) made Samurai-style armor for Warriors.That would look cool with a katana.

alchemistsan
04-04-2006, 16:06
how bout throwing knife or kunai as in the wallpaper. The thing is strike me odd is they didn't have weapon for throwing knife but a skill instead

ContactCombat
04-04-2006, 16:24
Lastly, from fantasy: one of the most popular assassin characters is D&D/Forgotten Realms' Artemis Entreri. But if you look at Entreri's stats, he's not merely a rogue but a fighter/rogue multiclass with more specialization in the fighter side.

The R.A. Salvatore books are really all about Entreri...and Jarlaxle. Who gives a crud about some goody two shoes Dark Elf and his pretty kitty...the entertainment is in the hired killers!


We have to differentiate ninja from ninja warrior. Ninjas who hold his own against dedicated fighters like samurai were more akin to samurai and very different from conventional ninjas.

You are actually much closer to the truth than you think. Historically speaking, the majority of Ninja WERE ALSO Samurai. They just did interesting things at night for their lords.

The Experimentor
04-04-2006, 17:09
Well, I'll give you this: I do wish ANet made the Assassin's daggers larger. Some of them, like the standard dagger/dirk skin, look more like knitting needles than cut-throat knives.

It's all about proportion. A blade just has to be the right size to be easily enough concealed but large enough to endure the rigors of a fight. Also, some of the Assassin defensive skills are definitely parry moves with a pair of daggers (Critical Defenses, Flashing Blades), so they at least have to be strong and heavy enough to intercept or turn aside blows from larger weapons.

And a little larger, a slight exaggeration in size, can't hurt. :wink:

Though, if they give the Assassin a pair of daggers the size of fellblades, I am so boycotting that weapon... :rolleyes:

The Experimentor
04-04-2006, 17:23
It seemed to me though that the assasin in guild wars was a bit more of a direct assasilent becuse of his charge right at the opponet seemed more...samuri like. I think they should get an ability that instead of shadow stepping right infront of them they appear behind them.
IIRC, when you teleport to the target, you appear next to him relative to how he was facing you when you activated the skill. So, if his back was turned to your direction when you activate Shadow of Haste, you'll still apear behind him.

But, honestly, unless you're a very precise, meticulous, obsessive-compulsive player who doesn't mind going the extra mile, I doubt you're going to pay that close attention to your target's facing. :wink:


I agree once the assasin gets into the combat then he starts becoming more ninja like but while he is charging at the person its like a warrior.

What do you think?
The Assassin teleport skills are much, much "faster" than the Warrior's- you can't get more ninja or- better- more Assassin than that.

Poof!
Charr Shaman: What the- who...
Assassin: Me.
Stab.
Vanish!

As compared to:

Warrior: Prepare to die, foul beast! This is the vengeance of Ascalon!
Charr Shaman: A human warrior! Guards!
Warrior: Yeeeaaahhh!
Sprint.
Charr Warriors surround Charr Shaman.

I did notice that the Assassin movement skills are actually slower than the Warrior's (25% vs. 33%), except for Dash (50%). But even I can understand that- heavy duty, long-distance running is based more on physical strength and endurance, rather than agility and reflexes.

Master Divine
05-04-2006, 01:20
Still i would like the assasin to be able to appear right behind the guy not run around in circles till you got at perfect position then teleport and have the guy turn around in three seconds and screw your build up.

You would have to practice that alot and i will :smiley: but it would be better if they could make him a bit less streight on and a bit more elusive this ninja guy is just like a warrior just with two daggers only difference is the shadow jumping

Wish you could be invisible for a bit or something like in other games it would work a lot better.

GrimShade
05-04-2006, 01:49
I guess you have to be a bit more crafty in your targeting. Running strait in may get you in faster but if you run at someone else and then switch targets, you can catch them a bit more off guard.

I was thinking an A/W so he could use a sword. I know it won’t be the same as a traditional Assassin, but I think she will look sweet with a broadsword. I may play with it if I choose not to make her a Mez secondary.

Siru
05-04-2006, 02:11
but it would be better if they could make him a bit less streight on and a bit more elusive
I can understand what you are trying to say, but I can't agree. When thinking about their 'RL counterparts', the likes and their methods, 'skills' and so on.. I can only think of one thing:

There is no magic in this - you created an opening and I used the opportunity.

I don't need to be a wizard to make a person or a mountain to disappear in front of your eyes - it's an illusion that you are creating yourself
:thumbsup:

All this use of the n-word in this forum makes me sick.. Sorry. Had to say it. :embarassed:

funky wookiepants
05-04-2006, 03:41
Ninjaninjaninjaninjaninjaninjaninjaninjaninjaninja ninjaninjaninjaninjaninjaaretehawesomezor!

Know what you mean, man.
T'be honest, the sheer amount of "ninjasaresocool" I've been seeing is damned near enough to turn me off making an assassin, ever.
However, I'm not really feeling like letting some fanboys ruin my amusement, so I'll likely get around to making one at some point. Probably name it "I Am NOT a Ninja" or something.

Zaxares
05-04-2006, 04:36
I say no to assassins wielding swords for one reason: swords are hard to conceal. Despite everything fantasy novels, games, anime and movies have taught us, the size and damage potential of weapons is really quite irrelevant when you're trying to kill somebody. Humans (and most animals, in fact) are very fragile creatures. It is entirely possible to kill a man in one strike with a knitting needle if you know where to hit and if you get close to your target. Since assassins are all about one single lethal attack that doesn't leave their target a chance to defend themselves, as opposed to hacking your way past waves of guards and then facing down your target in throne-room combat, larger weapons are not the specialty of assassins, no matter how cool they might look with them.

Kyrion Hellcat
05-04-2006, 11:00
IIrc... during the FPE I actually saw several assassin bosses carrying dual swords.

ClarianAeneas
05-04-2006, 11:18
I think Katanas should keep the swordsmanship requirement, however they should be a two-handed weapon. Now, I know the mechanics for a two-handed sword don't exist in GW as of now, but warrior wielding a katana and a shield just looks wierd, imo.

The Experimentor
05-04-2006, 18:19
I was thinking an A/W so he could use a sword. I know it won’t be the same as a traditional Assassin, but I think she will look sweet with a broadsword. I may play with it if I choose not to make her a Mez secondary.
I experimented with a non-adrenal sword build for a R/W in preparation for making an A/W. With all the skills in the bar being Energy-based plus having a high rank in Critical Strikes, I tried seeing if I could produce a similar effect with a sword as Assassins with daggers and attack skill chains do. I chose only non-adrenal skills so I didn't have to build up Adrenaline and I could use them as soon as combat started.

Non-Adrenal Sword skills:
Hamstring
Seeking Blade
Savage Slash
Pure Strike
Wild Blow

The bad news:
- Much less condition dealing and spiking than with daggers and Dagger Mastery.
- Takes much longer to deal with targets.
- No double attacks.
- No runes.

The good news:
- Your "chain" isn't so easily broken or interrupted (no lead, off-hand, dual- just spam them all as you like!).
- A sword deals just as much damage as daggers (more-or-less, comparing double-striking daggers with single-striking swords).
- A sword means room for an off-hand. Extra +6 Energy and +30 health anyone?

Of course, this isn't the same as testing with a real A/W. For that matter, I didn't look much into adrenal skills. But at least, the build doesn't plain suck :wink: - we can hopefully refine it when Factions comes out. It might not be as good as daggers, but it might not be so bad either.

So, for the adventurous and daring, why not make your sword-wielding ninjas, ala Assassin/Warrior's, a reality? :cool:

The Experimentor
05-04-2006, 18:20
IIrc... during the FPE I actually saw several assassin bosses carrying dual swords.
Yup. There was one right outside The Marketplace, to the east of the player spawn area.

Oh well. You can't have everything. (Shrug.)

MaximumSquid
05-04-2006, 18:50
The 15k warrior armor has a good chance to look samurai still.

I haven't seen any of the new 15k armors, but we can hope right?

Also You can probably expect to see a set of green daggers that are two short swords.

http://i.xanga.com/Dexargile/Dex%20Scimitar.jpg

My guess is a pair of scimitars much like the one shown above

http://www.loveleaf.net/ts/image/GREW628STS.jpg

Although these would be badass too! :afro:

GrimShade
05-04-2006, 19:17
The 15k warrior armor has a good chance to look samurai still.

I haven't seen any of the new 15k armors, but we can hope right?

Also You can probably expect to see a set of green daggers that are two short swords.

I would say some type of Samurai armor is a possibility. If they are going to throw in a Katana it only makes sense.


http://i.xanga.com/Dexargile/Dex%20Scimitar.jpg

My guess is a pair of scimitars much like the one shown above


Droollll. Beautiful. That looks like a Raven Armory one? But I hope they don't go too far into a Drizzt char.

Caelus The Fallen
05-04-2006, 20:32
I wouldnt be surprised if some of the prestige weapon skins look more like short swords than daggers ;)

Shadow Dancer
05-04-2006, 23:05
Hookswords would rock.

(I have no idea of their proper name)

And if they do add Samurai style armor for Warriors, I'm pretty much sold as to what to do with my 2nd Factions slot.

The Experimentor
06-04-2006, 11:29
Hookswords would rock.
Not exactly swords, but... :smiley:

From Scutilla's post in The FPE New Item Picture Thread (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=391095&page=8):
Daggers (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y51/Scutilla/GW%20SF/FactionsDaggers.jpg) - 3rd column, 4th row.



(I have no idea of their proper name)
Shang Gou.



And if they do add Samurai style armor for Warriors, I'm pretty much sold as to what to do with my 2nd Factions slot.
Except for the fact that you end up wielding Katanas in a single hand and a shield in the other! :grin: If you look in the Warrior forums, there're a whole bunch of them complaining about this.

Your best bet is to get a Idol (Necro offhand for Blood Magic) and pretend it's a Tanto or a very short Wakizashi! :laugh:

Master Divine
08-04-2006, 07:26
K i agree with the fact that a sword would be terrible difficult to conceal for anyone and get away with it. Also that humans have lots of soft points and can be easily killed if known were to hit. Finally i think katanas should be doubled handed too i would never want to use a katana and a sword together.

The whole reason i brought this topic up was i was inspired by the sword i will be getting soon unfortunetly i can't post it becuse i dont know how to post the images off the computer ill find out and get it on here as soon as i can but im heading up to greer tommorow gonna be gone for a week.

Master Divine
14-04-2006, 11:45
k everyone here it is
http://www.gameamp.com/modules/core/user_gallery/8967_gallery.jpg

noggieca
14-04-2006, 11:48
k everyone here it ishttp://C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\Desktop\Gabriel\My Documents\My Pictures

Um .......... lol :grin:

Master Divine
14-04-2006, 11:53
he he sry bout that the image was being uncoraoporative

Enlighted
15-04-2006, 02:25
k everyone here it is
http://www.gameamp.com/modules/core/user_gallery/8967_gallery.jpg
Sweet love the sword your getting maybe youll let me come over and use it :grin: ha ha well i'll see ya master

Master Divine
15-04-2006, 09:45
You know you dont know how to use katanas correctly only chinese broadswords and their wooden counterparts sry but youll cut your face off

ContactCombat
15-04-2006, 22:44
The Darn Dao handles much different than a Katana, simply because proper use of the Darn Dao evolved from cuts with large knives. In fact, the Darn Dao is often considered a "Big Knife".

http://www.club540.biz/images/products/144-1104405871.jpg_200.jpg

While both blades are designed to be "head heavy", the katana is afforded a longer grip for a primarily two handed cut, whereas the Darn Dao is almost always a one handed weapon...aside from the occasional hand on hand assist.

In addition, the Katana is designed for "Cutting", as opposed to "Draw Cutting", as the Darn Dao is created for. The katana wants to cut directly into something, whereas the Darn Dao wants to make contact, then "Draw" across the surface in order to open a wider wound.

You'll notice in a lot of southern chinese martial arts that the Darn Dao is lead from the handle as opposed to leading with the mid or lead section of the blade.

Just curious, but where did you study Iaido or Kendo, Master Divine? I know that American Kenpo doesn't teach it, unless your instructor cross-trains.

Master Divine
16-04-2006, 00:11
I learned how to use a katana with a instructor who was in tai cuan do i studied with him for a brief time but he taught me much about how to use katanas (reverse blade of course)

I would prefir a reverse blade to a normal one anyday just wish they had a reverse handle for katanas too.

Rustin
16-04-2006, 01:44
I want to see some claws wolverine style. that would be badarse

Enlighted
22-04-2006, 19:28
I want to see some claws wolverine style. that would be badarse

Yeah assasins should get some claws like wolverine or voldo (soulcalibur II)

Enlighted
24-04-2006, 04:24
Ha ha my friend got his katana its different one then posted though

Master Divine
24-04-2006, 04:28
Yep just got my katana and its awesome but got a different one then i posted earlier we decided to get it from different supplier but ill post some images up as soon as i can :grin: still i have to find someone who will take a picture of the katana perfectly while im holding it and just get katana.