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BostonVaulter
04-04-2006, 07:15
which elite do you guys like better. Soul Twisting or Ritual Lord?

Soul Twisting (availability)
Description: Destroy target allied spirit. The next Binding ritual you perform casts 66% faster and recharges instantly. This is an elite skill.
Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: 1 Second.
Recharge Time: 10 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: None.
Skill Type: Enchantment Spell.



Ritual Lord (availability)
Description: For 30 seconds, your Rituals recharge 15-63% faster.
Energy Cost: 10
Activation Time: None.
Recharge Time: 30 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: Spawning. Increases duration and the percent of faster recharge.
Skill Type: Skill.


Hmmm, I am absolutely sure that soul twisting was a skill in the FPE. I was able to use it even while casting another spirit.

I like soul twisting because it can help me keep up union or shelter 24/7

But I haven't been able to test out ritual lord.

BunnyLord
04-04-2006, 08:46
IDK I guess I'm just addicted to Ritual Lord, i like combining it with Boon of Creation. If people/enemies ignore you, you will find yourself summoning endlessly.

Ritual Lord is great if you like to just summon spirits (like me) because it affects all summoning rituals. I found it very effective, once the spirits are ready, I summon them again even if they're still healthy just to keep a steady flow in the battlefield.

Soul Twisting is great if you run a mix build, if you don't have much spirits and have other skills/spells then soul twisting is very handy, especially for maintaining a specific spirit (ex. Union, Shelter, Recuperation, Displacement).

Nothing is really better than the other, it just depends.

Satinka
04-04-2006, 09:36
I like Soul Twisting more, playing with one or two spirits just suits me better than having a big army of them.

Viti Ligo
04-04-2006, 09:57
As a concept Soul Twisting is more interesting and usefull in my opinion.... at least if UI is improved somehow that you can stay on map what happens to your spirits and are able to quickly target to them.

Longasc
04-04-2006, 10:19
As a concept Soul Twisting is more interesting and usefull in my opinion.... at least if UI is improved somehow that you can stay on map what happens to your spirits and are able to quickly target to them.

If you play together with another Ritualist, they can use this skill to keep up Union and Shelter permanently, I like that too.

If you are alone and carry multiple spirits, you might be better off with Ritual Lord.


The UI is indeed the problem, it is not too easy to keep an eye on Spirit Health, if you want to "soul twist" Union you might fail to do so before the spirit is destroyed, and then you would have been better off with Ritual Lord.

There is another thread regarding possible improvements to the UI.

Zingeri
04-04-2006, 11:52
As said, if you are using 3 or more Spirits, use Ritual Lord.

BostonVaulter
04-04-2006, 22:09
As many have said, use Ritual Lord if you are using many spirits and Soul Twisting if you are only using one or two.

Does everyone agree with me that Soul Twisting was a skill during the FPE?

How hard is it to keep union or shelter up with Ritual Lord? Maybe if there were like 2 or 3 ritualists it could probably work. But with Soul Twisting a single rit can keep up any spirit almost all the time.

Zingeri
04-04-2006, 22:30
How hard is it to keep union or shelter up with Ritual Lord? Maybe if there were like 2 or 3 ritualists it could probably work. But with Soul Twisting a single rit can keep up any spirit almost all the time.Considering that Ritual Lord allows Shelter/Union to recharge in 10 Seconds...I'd say Ritual Lord can do it MUCH better.

Archangel Raguil
04-04-2006, 23:03
How does Ritual Lord allow Shelter/Union to recharge in 10 seconds??? Shelter and Union have a skill recharge time of 60 seconds each, and as far as I know, Ritual Lord doesn't allow for a 600% faster skill recharge... Did you mean Soul Twisting?

Personally, I only use 2 spirits but I never cared much for Soul Twisting. Because I don't use Shelter and Union, my spirits aren't dying most of the time, so it never really bothered me that much in PvP. Soul Twisting is kind of cool, though, because if you use it in PvE, you wouldn't have to use Draw Spirit. When you leave an area, just use Soul Twisting on whatever spirit you have, and recast at the next group of enemies.

Zingeri
04-04-2006, 23:06
How does Ritual Lord allow Shelter/Union to recharge in 10 seconds??? Shelter and Union have a skill recharge time of 60 seconds each, and as far as I know, Ritual Lord doesn't allow for a 600% faster skill recharge... Did you mean Soul Twisting?Ritual Lord shaves 80% of the recharge time at 16 Spawning Power.

60 x .80 = 12 Seconds.

Not exactly 10, but you get the point.

The point being that you can cast and recast Shelter and Union endlessly.

Artemis Shadowhawk
04-04-2006, 23:30
Also remember that Ritual Lord is attribute-dependent, while Soul Twisting remains attribute-independent. So if you cannot fit Spawning into a build, Ritual Lord is out of the question.

However, that said, I still prefer Ritual Lord much more than Soul Twisting.

Zingeri
05-04-2006, 00:24
Also remember that Ritual Lord is attribute-dependent, while Soul Twisting remains attribute-independent. So if you cannot fit Spawning into a build, Ritual Lord is out of the question.

However, that said, I still prefer Ritual Lord much more than Soul Twisting.You'd be crazy not to, since Spawning Power = Buff Spirits = Longer Duration of Shelter/Union.

Also Spawning Power = Boon of Creation

Siru
05-04-2006, 00:49
You'd be crazy not to, since Spawning Power = Buff Spirits = Longer Duration of Shelter/Union.

Also Spawning Power = Boon of Creation
But when thinking about builds that use channeling, communing and a one from secondary I won't be thinking about spawning powers :thumbsup:

Geishe
05-04-2006, 01:25
Communing fits in perfectly with Spawning Power. I do not think you can combine secondaries effectively with an all spirit build...

JeanDeathwish
05-04-2006, 03:04
For me it depends on what spirits and where. If you are planning on using Displacement in 12v12 and catch it with Soul Twisting I think your pushing it. That spirit is dead before its up.

But if your using Union/Shelter in 4v4 its best to use Soul Twisting. That faster cast will help you with all the rangers running around and they wont die as fast so you can cast just before they die and have a brand new one.

As a whole I prefer Soul Twisting.

Phaeax
05-04-2006, 06:39
Ritual Lord shaves 80% of the recharge time at 16 Spawning Power.

60 x .80 = 12 Seconds.

Not exactly 10, but you get the point.

The point being that you can cast and recast Shelter and Union endlessly. The percentage given for Ritual Lord isn't in terms of the duration saved, but in terms of the rate of recharge.

1 recharge per 60 seconds * (100% + 80% faster) = 1 recharge per 33.33 seconds

Artemis Shadowhawk
05-04-2006, 13:34
The percentage given for Ritual Lord isn't in terms of the duration saved, but in terms of the rate of recharge.

1 recharge per 60 seconds * (100% + 80% faster) = 1 recharge per 33.33 secondsThat...ummm....doesnt make sense to me. But it's early and I'm tired.

60 * 1/(1.8) = 33.3?

I'm pretty certain thats not the formula. I'll test it though.

Deadly Hawkeye
05-04-2006, 13:41
The percentage given for Ritual Lord isn't in terms of the duration saved, but in terms of the rate of recharge.

1 recharge per 60 seconds * (100% + 80% faster) = 1 recharge per 33.33 seconds
I remember I tested Ritual Lord, with a 60 secs recharge spirit, it recharges around 22 secs with 13 spawning.

Kjentei
05-04-2006, 14:02
I saw Soul Twisting* to be used for R/Rt or if you want a specific spirit run throughout a GvG-battle or a Tournament-battle, e.g. one of the ones that loses damage as it uses it's effect such as Displacement.

Ritual Lord* I saw to more used by a "Spiritualist", using multiple spirits in a PvE situation.

Phaeax
05-04-2006, 15:13
I'm pretty certain thats not the formula. I'll test it though.
I remember I tested Ritual Lord, with a 60 secs recharge spirit, it recharges around 22 secs with 13 spawning. A test never hurt anyone. :wink:

I looked around the forums for a little testing done on Serpent's Quickness, as it also affects the recharge rate on skills. It seems that it really affects duration, although the description states that it is the rate that changes.

Here's most likely what the description is doing...

Ritual Lord (availability)
Description: For 30 seconds, your Rituals recharge times are reduced by 15-63%.
Energy Cost: 10
Activation Time: None.
Recharge Time: 30 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: Spawning. Increases duration and the percent of faster recharge.
Skill Type: Skill.

At attribute level 15, this is 75% reduction in recharge time, turning a 60 second Shelter or Union recharge into 15 seconds. This is 300% faster, since it goes from 1/60 recharge per second to 4/60 recharge per second.

It seems (to me) that there used to be a better correlation between skill descriptions and their effect in-game, but I'm finding more and more oversights. Most importantly, it shows me that I shouldn't be so quick to open my big pie hole. :wink:

Artemis Shadowhawk
05-04-2006, 16:20
Yeah I actually just tested Serpent's Quickness, which as you stated has the same wording as Ritual Lord. It does in fact reduce the duration by 33%. i.e. a 60 sec recharge becomes 40 sec instead of 45 sec.

From my memory of Ritual Lord, it works the same as Serpent's Quickness. So you can, based off my memory of Ritual Lord and the "evidence" of how a similar skill works, reduce 60 second recharge spirits to under 15 seconds.

Erasculio
05-04-2006, 19:59
It seems (to me) that there used to be a better correlation between skill descriptions and their effect in-game, but I'm finding more and more oversights. Most importantly, it shows me that I shouldn't be so quick to open my big pie hole. :wink:
I have thought the same thing. A recharge that's 80% faster wouldn't reduce a recharging time even in half, since that would require a recharge 100% faster - but that's not the logic that GW uses on its skills, it seems. So what a "80% faster recharge" means is that it's actually 80% less time on the recharge.

Erasculio

Archangel Raguil
06-04-2006, 00:52
I have thought the same thing. A recharge that's 80% faster wouldn't reduce a recharging time even in half, since that would require a recharge 100% faster - but that's not the logic that GW uses on its skills, it seems. So what a "80% faster recharge" means is that it's actually 80% less time on the recharge.

Erasculio

heh, darn the unclear description! I guess that makes Ritual Lord 80% better than I thought it was... :tongue:

Nozzie
22-04-2006, 20:11
I think that they are both good but soul twisting is not going to be used as much, the reason is that it is useful with a smaller spirit build like 1-3 spirits and I think that the other ritualist elites might just be too go to pass up.

Falrow
23-04-2006, 20:46
Shame you can't use Soul Twisting with a R/Rt build, because then you could twist things like QZ!

Ahhh, too bad it's really a useless skill except a few special situations.

There's too many useless elite skills, just because there's another way to do the same thing WAY better (aka Skull Crack and Temple Strike).

BostonVaulter
24-04-2006, 20:40
Shame you can't use Soul Twisting with a R/Rt build, because then you could twist things like QZ!


I think you're being sarcastic, but that is a very possible use of soul twisting. Although you could also use oath shot, but I don't have any experience with that.

Zingeri
24-04-2006, 20:50
I think you're being sarcastic, but that is a very possible use of soul twisting. Although you could also use oath shot, but I don't have any experience with that.Falrow is correct. You aren't.

Soul Twisting speeds BINDING RITUALS. Ranger spirits are NATURE RITUALS.

Erasculio
24-04-2006, 22:26
Soul Twisting speeds BINDING RITUALS. Ranger spirits are NATURE RITUALS.
Although you could use Ranger spirits to be the target of Soul Twist...I could see some interesting Frozen Soil -> Soul Twist -> Restoration combos this way.

Erasculio

Falrow
25-04-2006, 04:07
Why twist Frozen? Why not twist that resurection spirit? With proper timing you could pull your team's *** out of the fire.

Ohh, you mean so you can fast cast the res spirit, not a bad idea, but you'd need to kill it after too.

But if you want a REALLY fast res, the solution is SIMPLE:

GLYPH OF SACRIFICE!!!!

I have NO idea why people don't use it on a E/Mo for a hardresser in GvG, now that it only disabled for 30 seconds. Even at 90 seconds, it would work GREAT for a hardreser.

Who can beat a res in about 2 seconds? And you can use any res spell you want, like say restore life with a fair ammount of nrg.

^^OFFTOPIC^^

OmInOuS NeCrOsIs
25-04-2006, 12:24
im goin with ritual lord

Weidi
02-05-2006, 13:05
if not said already...
Soul Twisting handled right can give u great advantage, imo u can plant some random spirit destroy it.
Then build Shelter ie, destroy this shelter again if its going to die anyway. This way u can get close to have an shelter up all time...

And btw, shelter is like a a grp prot spirit...

Phoebus
02-05-2006, 13:20
Soul Twisting was improved from the beta, now it's no longer a enchant, and it's instant cast.

You can activate both Soul Twisting and Ritual Lord while you are activating another skill, so a good trick with soul twisting is to rebind a spirit and soul twist the old one 1 second before the completion of the binding ritual to minimize downtime.

But generaly speaking, Ritual Lord is usually better, and more importantly, much more reliable.

antonz
04-05-2006, 06:43
I may seem like a stupid seeing plenty of calculation in this forum, but can somebody actually test the spell and give us the result.

Phoebus
04-05-2006, 12:20
Assuming you are talking about Ritual Lord's effective recharge reduction formula. It's -x% recharge time, not +x% recharge speed.
With Ritual Lord at L12 (For 30 seconds, your Rituals recharge 63% faster), my 60 second recharge rituals were recharging in 20 seconds. (I could cast Union twice inside the same Ritual Lord activation.)

I did not test Ranger Rituals as I was not a /R.

Ghosties
04-05-2006, 16:08
I have thought the same thing. A recharge that's 80% faster wouldn't reduce a recharging time even in half, since that would require a recharge 100% faster - but that's not the logic that GW uses on its skills, it seems. So what a "80% faster recharge" means is that it's actually 80% less time on the recharge.

Erasculio

Nope... a faster recharge is a reduction in the total speed it takes to recharge the skill... not an increase... therefore if you have a recharge that is 100 secs... reducing it by 100% would give you zero recharge... there is nothing wrong with the wording of the skill...

Sclopper
04-05-2006, 16:23
Rit lord at 63% made my 60 sec recharges 26 and 27 and my 45 second recharges 16 seconds...timed this with a stopwatch so it would be easier

Phoebus
04-05-2006, 16:53
Nope... a faster recharge is a reduction in the total speed it takes to recharge the skill... not an increase... therefore if you have a recharge that is 100 secs... reducing it by 100% would give you zero recharge... there is nothing wrong with the wording of the skill...
The wording of the skill is 'recharge 100% faster'.

100% faster means twice as fast, not instant.

clownface
04-05-2006, 17:04
Soul Twisting can get your spirits cooling down at 10 seconds...

this is far more useful ( to me ) then the 15-20 seconds Ritual lord will give u. Not to mention Soul Twisting will pump out a spirit at about 3/4 second with the 66% faster cast rate....

Yea if u dont get around to destroying a spirit u cud be caught off guard, if thats the case have a spare Pain or Destruction ready cuz they have a 20 second cool down...

Ghosties
04-05-2006, 21:21
The wording of the skill is 'recharge 100% faster'.

100% faster means twice as fast, not instant.


If you we were talking about speed then yes... but it is "For 30 seconds, your Rituals recharge 15-63% faster." not "your Rituals recharge speed is 15-63% faster." It causes the ritual to recharge by a % of its total recharge faster.