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arredondo
06-04-2006, 08:22
OK, if someone can come up with a primary Assassin build that can deliver more Critical hits than this one, I'd would definitely like to see it! :tongue:

=========================================
Ultimate Critical Assassin

Dagger Mastery: 16
Critical Strikes: 13
Deadly Arts: 4

Critical Eye: 32 seconds of +6% Crits, adds +1E per Crit
Critical Defenses: 47% chance to block for four seconds, refreshes with every Crit

Black Mantis Thrust: -21 damage (Lead), Cripples a Hexed foe for 17s
Jungle Strike: -21 damage (Off-Hand), an additional -33 on a Crippled foe
Twisted Fangs: -12 damage (Dual Attack), Bleeds and Deep Wounds for 21s

Archane Echo: Copies any spell for 20 seconds
Siphon Strength {Elite}: All attacks +33% chance of being Crits, foe deals -15 damage for 7 seconds

100% +energy armor and Zealous mods until I can test it. I also have a +20% damage customization mod, and +15% damage mod when health is >50%.
=========================================

Based on calculations with L16 DM and L13 CS, this build already has a 34% chance of achieving a Critical hit with every blow. Turn on Critical Eye enchant and that goes up to a 40% chance. The madness truly starts however when you Hex an enemy with Siphon Strength.... 73% chance of any hit landing as a Critical!

The damage from just basic melee attacks (for an Assassin) should be pretty crazy with all the max damage this dishes out. And when you consider you have the Zealous mods on as you attack (go to normal daggers when not attacking for 4 pips mana regen), this build should have absolutely no need for energy. Which is why I think Archane Echo should work well here until I test it. It costs 15E to cast, but with all this energy it shouldn't slow down your main skills. You can even cast it early, regen a bit, then go into your strats.

Having AE allows you to chain your Siphon Strength elite for two straight casts. You are only getting 7 seconds with L4 Deadly Arts, but honestly, it makes no sense to go any higher by dropping something else. I mean you only get 9 seconds with L9-L11.

I can't see going higher than that in any circumstance just for this one skill. So by "losing" two seconds, I have been able to get max goodness from Dagger Mastery and Critical Strikes. Using AE, I end up getting 14 seconds worth of Siphon Stregnth, so it works out perfectly.

At L13 CS, you get the max +3E with every Critical landed plus an extra +13% chance at getting a Crit. At L16 DM, you get a max 32% chance of getting Double Strikes with basic melee attacks, giving you essentially the damage equal to one attack per second (and your Crit chance goes up 21% too). Combine all that with the 6% from Critical Eye and you have your base 40% before you add the 33% from the elite to get the 73% opportunity for Crits each attack.

With these stats, thats +9E pips to your +4E pip regen, or +13E pips.... that comes to about +4E per hit! With your Zealous mod on, you lose a pip (.333 a second), but you gain a full energy point (three pips) with every hit. Using the Zealous mod for seven normal hits under your 73% chance at Crits comes to a total of +15E pips, or the equivalent of +5E per hit! :shocked:

So here's the attack chain:

++++++

A
- Cast Critical Eye
- Cast Archane Echo (recharge a bit of energy as you move in)
- Cast Siphon Strength... you're now getting 78% chance at Crits

B
- Maximize your seven seconds by attacking with melee hits
- Go into your combo of Black Mantis Thrust->Jungle Strike->Twisted Fangs
- Feel free to hit him again a few times with melee, even if only achieving 40% Crits by this time
- If he dies, move on to your next target, either way....

C
- In a few seconds, cast Siphon Strength (the copy) once again.
- Repeat part 'B'

++++++

You should be able to run this without pausing much (in theory) three full times because the original SS will have recharged after your second full set of attacks. The order may change a bit with practice though; we'll see. Whether the build does a lot of damage or not, I still think it'll be tough to squeeze out more Critical hits per attack string than I've done with this monster. I can't wait to see those flying numbers of perfection ringing over my enemies' heads when the game is released. :grin:

The Experimentor
06-04-2006, 09:05
Defense, sir? Self-heal?

I'm worried you might be throwing everything into offense to the point of being defenseless. :undecided: You won't even get a chance to strut your stuff if you get knocked out before you even get into combat.

Maybe you could switch Arcane Echo out for some sort of self-heal or movement, like Death's Charge?

arredondo
06-04-2006, 09:27
???

It's printed in bold letters no less:


Critical Defenses: 47% chance to block for four seconds, refreshes with every Crit

I get by on kiting and Distortion alone on some of my Mesmer builds, I rarely have a heal, and still am often the last to die if we don't win RA included (i.e. with no Monk most times). In most organized teams, you will likely have healing from teammate(s), but there is some defense here that stays on infinitely with all the Crits you're creating at no extra energy charge. And if energy is plentiful after tests, I'll add tougher armor.

However if your suggestions are what you need to get by, by all means make your switches.

BTW, I listed seven skills... the eighth is a Rez of course.

The Experimentor
06-04-2006, 09:39
Whoops. Sorry 'bout that. I guess I was just too dazzled by what you were trying to do with your build. :wink:

arredondo
06-04-2006, 17:47
No problem....

You actually got me thinking about an alternate version for those that can't kite like the master :smiley:. Run it with the new skill below if your team has the rezzes covered. Also this might be a bit better for the chaotic 12v12 format coming up since you don't need a rez in that mode... tell me what you think:


Way of Perfection (Enchantment Spell)
For 27 seconds, whenever you successfully make a Critical Hit you gain 27 Health.

5E, 1 sec. cast, 30 sec. recharge
Attribute: Shadow Arts


=========================================
Ultimate Critical Assassin II

Dagger Mastery: 13
Critical Strikes: 13
Shadow Arts: 10
Deadly Arts: 4
(1 left over)

Critical Eye: 32 seconds of +6% Crits, adds +1E per Crit
Critical Defenses: 47% chance to block for four seconds, refreshes with every Crit

Black Mantis Thrust: -18 damage (Lead), Cripples a Hexed foe for 13s
Jungle Strike: -18 damage (Off-Hand), an additional -27 on a Crippled foe
Twisted Fangs: -9 damage (Dual Attack), Bleeds and Deep Wounds for 18s

Archane Echo: Copies any spell for 20 seconds
Siphon Strength {Elite}: All attacks +33% chance of being Crits, foe deals -15 damage for 7 seconds
Way of Perfection: 27 seconds of +27 Health from each Critical hit

100% +energy armor and Zealous mods until I can test it. I also have a +20% damage customization mod, and +15% damage mod when health is >50%.
=========================================

Besides the reduced combo damage (numbers are above), you lose 3.75% chance at hitting a Critical, taking you to a max of 36% chance with the elite off, and a 69% chance with it on. Your attack speed is now about 1.06 swings per second, slightly lowering your DPS.

That's still very high, but now you can gain health from every Crit you hit. Tag the enemy with five Crits and you get +135 health. If you spam basic melee attacks and use Siphon Strength twice (with AE copy) during WoP's 27 seconds, you can get about 14 Crits to connect for +369 HP. Realistically you may get 8-10 Crits during all the action, which is still a nice bonus of 216-270 HP.

Factor in the 47% chance of blocking that'll be constantly renewed with Critical Defenses up, and I can see this build holding its own decently in almost any 1v1 fight.

++++++++

I'll now try to calculate the general damage for the main version of this build at the top (L16 DM stats). The average damage with my mods is 17 (12 x 1.2 x 1.15= 16.56). I show that one Critical hit with my mods is equal to 33.2 damage (17 x 1.2 x 1.15= 23.46... so 23.46 x 1.4142= 33.2).

UCA I:

- Skill damage (not counting Condition damage): 21+21+(12x2)= 66 damage
- Deep Wound: 100 damage on a 500 HP foe
- Base damage per skill attack (SS off): about 83 damage assuming one Crit
- 73% chance of Crits with 2x SS on six melee spam hits each= 166x2= 332 damage

TOTAL DAMAGE = 581 damage

Add an average of 29 damage for each melee hit with SS on (and CE of course), add an average of 22 damage for each melee hit with SS off. This figures in the Critical chance and its damage in each circumstance.

MaximumSquid
06-04-2006, 19:43
I tried some critical assassins and I really hated how they ran.

You are extremely powerful, but only up to the point where someone counters one of your skills; which is the point the build falls on its face.

The enchants run extremely well, but have the risk of becomming removed or worse you become blind / crippled and can't even take a swing properly.

That and it's very hard to nab all the critical skills, but still maintain basic assassin utilities like an escape, a condition remover, and an interupt skill.

I switched some stuff around: this may be more to your liking:

Critical Eye
Way of Perfection
Iron Palm
Falling Spider
Twisting fangs
{Condition Remover} i'd recommend either purge conditions or plague touch
Siphon Strength
Ressurect Signet for Ra / Teams
or
Critical Defense for the 12v12

Since you are putting a hex on your foe you might as well make the most of it by knocking them down with iron palm. Your target won't be able to get away before you lay in the rest of the combo.

There shouldn't be a need to echo any skills in your build. Siphon Strength is only a 10 second recharge last I checked. Your other spells should easily last longer than the recharge times so you're set there as well.

Hope this helps

shaktiboi
06-04-2006, 20:09
Excellent theoretical build, Arredondo. :cool:

The only thing I worry about is that 2 second casting time for both Arcane Echo and Siphon Strength. You've got no teleport or dash skill to get to your target quickly, so if you case Arcane Echo and Siphon Speed *before* closing with your target, you're wasting some of that precious 7 seconds.

If you cast Arcane Echo, then wait till you close with them before casting Siphon Strength, you haven't crippled the target yet. They see you start casting and they can run, gaining a 2-second lead on you. Nothing will slow them down until you can catch them and tag them with Black Mantis Thrust. By then, your first Siphon Strength might have already worn off.

So I worry that this build will work only on unsuspecting targets or on targets who can't keep track of what's what during a big melee. Anyone who knows to run when they see an Assassin will be able to stymie this build.

Is there a way to fit some sort of Dash or TP-to-target ability into this build, so that you can pre-case Arcane Echo and Siphon Strength, then immediately get to your target and tag them with Black Mantis Thrust to cripple them?

Even if you can do that, there's still the possibility that they'll stymie your lead attack (or you'll just plain miss), which means they aren't crippled. Of course, that's a weakness with many assassin builds.

Anyway to fit a foolproof crippling opener into this?

---------

Regardless, the basic idea of stacking Siphon Strength for 73% crit rate and a 13.8 pip regen rate during bursts of Siphon Strength is just evil. :grin:

However, it's not like you really get 13.8 pips of regen full-time during battle. Since you can at best get that rate for only 14 out of every 30 seconds, your average pip rate is more like .

Pips = (Crit Chance % x Energy Bonus) / Dagger Speed / .33

(.76 x 4 ) / 1.00 / .33 = 8.8 pips

4 pips from your armor + 8.8 pips from your crit-based regen = 13.8 pips for every 14 seconds out of 30, with the other 16 seconds being a "mere" 8.8 pip regen rate:

(.40 x 4) / 1.00 / .33 = 4.8 pips

So, averaging the two over time:

[13.8 x (14/30)] + [8.8 x (16/30)] = 11.1 pips of effective average regen during battle, assuming you can make full use of your Siphon Strength and nothign is going to waste.

arredondo
06-04-2006, 20:11
Maximum Squid:
- I don't believe in any "basic" skill for an Assassin... you make use of what your stats, secondary, and strategy goals supports.

- How is it that Hex and Enchant removals aren't an issue with your changes? How are they not issues for 90% of any builds?

- I see that Siphon Strength is listed at a 10s Recharge here, but its the only site that does from what I can tell. At other sites I go to the recharge is at 30s. If I can find the real number, I'll make adjustments later if it's 30s, but for now I greatly prefer my two versions.

- Players with other versions to fit one's play style is always understandable; I do it myself with ideas from others. For me, I prefer my early Cripple and extra damage from JS as my off-hand to add to the damage of my Critical hit spam. I don't need a KD if I've Crippled them to the expense of the other skills I have chosen. And if my elite is at a 30s recharge, I'll definitely put that extra high energy pip rate to good use by doubling up my elite for maximum carnage.

You may have tried your versions but it's doubtful you ran this version complete with weapon mods and the necessary runes for all the specific skills. It may be theory for now, but it shows more promise than I think you may realize. However, as always, if I overestimate it's survivability/damage dealing, I'll report it here directly after full testing.

+++++

Thanks for the pip correction. I thought through the problem you brought up with snaring the enemy. I can actually try a few things (I needed to test it so I didn't bring it up), but this is the one I like most:

- Cast AE (recharge energy, move in)->SS->BMS->JS->TF->spam attacks

This version gets three out of four Crits from the skills themselves. I may be able to get off two or three more "normal" melee attacks. Aren't skill attacks a second apart anyway (Double Attack = 2 secs.)? Not much more than that I'm sure. The next use of SS can be all for normal melee if I choose, and when it ends my first SS is more than halfway ready to be used again (AE will be recharging though).

I can also try AE-->SS-->BMS->melee->JS->melee->TF-->2x melee... it'll take some practice on the dummies to find the best way to do it.

Erasculio
06-04-2006, 23:41
If you're against Enchantment Shatterers, I think a Warrior Elite would be nice:

Primal Rage
Description: For 10 seconds, all of your attacks have an additional 10-46% chance of being critical hits and have 20% armor penetration. Primal Rage diables all skills for 10 seconds. This is an elite skill.
Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: None.
Recharge Time: 15 Seconds
Linked Attribute: Strength. Increases critical chance.
Skill Type: Stance.

Problems: an Assassin would have it capped at 10% higher chances of Critical Hits. It also blocks all skills for the duration.

Advantages: is a Stance, not an enchantment. Low recharge time, with fixed duration - you would be only 5 seconds without it for each 10 seconds with it. It adds a fixed ammount of 20% armor penetration.

It may be useful, IMO.

Erasculio

arredondo
06-04-2006, 23:59
Sorry, I looked at it briefly but it only helps Warrior primaries (it's in Stregnth). Since CE and energy bonuses for Crits are Assassin-only benefits, I don't think you can successfully mix the two classes in that way.

Update...

If your energy maxes out at +11E pips total without Zealous as shaktiboi indicates (+3.7E per second), then bringing Zealous in takes you back up to +13E pips of energy regen per second (on average) with everything turned on while in attack mode. That comes to +4.3E a second with each average attack.

Erasculio
07-04-2006, 00:10
Sorry, I looked at it briefly but it only helps Warrior primaries (it's in Stregnth)
..And still, to a Primary Assassin it gives ten seconds of +10% to Critical Strikes with 20% of Armor Penetration on all attacks, plus it's a Stance.

The only variable linked to Strenght is the percentage of Critical Strikes.

Erasculio

shaktiboi
07-04-2006, 01:10
Sorry, I looked at it briefly but it only helps Warrior primaries (it's in Stregnth). Since CE and energy bonuses for Crits are Assassin-only benefits, I don't think you can successfully mix the two classes in that way.

Update...

If your energy maxes out at +11E pips total without Zealous as shaktiboi indicates (+3.7E per second), then bringing Zealous in takes you back up to +13E pips of energy regen per second (on average) with everything turned on while in attack mode. That comes to +4.3E a second with each average attack.

I'd love to see the math behind how zealous works. I could probably figure it out, but you've already done so, lol. :wink:. It would be good to add info on zealous to my section on energy regen in V3 of the FAQ.

JeanDeathwish
07-04-2006, 01:21
I would like to point out that Im almost 100% sure that this site might be the only one that updated the Ritualist/Assassin skills after the FPE. Siphon Strength is 10s recharge if I remember correctly and also Critical Defence now lasts 6 seconds which helps you get your critical hit (not that you need it).

I would suggest not Arcane Echo-ing Siphon Strength and get the duration to 9-10 seconds, but thats just me and your way works too.

arredondo
07-04-2006, 01:44
shaktiboi: It's simple actually... you get +1E every hit while losing .3333E from natural regen. That's equal to a net +2E pips a second (or +.6666E of actual net energy gained per second) if you have L16 DM, but you can easily calculate how much it comes out to with less DM points.

So now you see how you can go from +11E pips (which is +3.7E net energy per second) to +13 pips (which is +3.7E + .6666E = +4.3E per second on average).

+++++++++++++++++

JeanDeathWish: If the true recharge is 10 seconds, then excuse me while I go run buck naked through the sprinklers outside to celebrate.

<go entertain yourselves for awhile...>

OK, I'm back. This absolutely changes things because the effect I was shooting for (chaining Siphon Strength with copies) is already done for me. I don't even have to have the Mesmer class as my secondary. Once I remove Arcane Echo, here is the skill I'll add to the SECOND build of the two versions... I haven't figured out the new skill for the first build yet:


Shadow Refuge (Enchantment Spell)
For 4 seconds, you have a 50% chance to "Evade" attacks. When Shadow Refuge ends, you are healed for 90 Health.

5E, 1 sec. cast, 8 sec recharge
Attribute: Shadow Arts

==========================================
UCA II ver. B

Dagger Mastery: 13
Critical Strikes: 13
Shadow Arts: 10
Deadly Arts: 4
(1 left over)

Critical Eye: 32 seconds of +6% Crits, adds +1E per Crit
Critical Defenses: 47% chance to block for four seconds, refreshes with every Crit

Black Mantis Thrust: -18 damage (Lead), Cripples a Hexed foe for 13s
Jungle Strike: -18 damage (Off-Hand), an additional -27 on a Crippled foe
Twisted Fangs: -9 damage (Dual Attack), Bleeds and Deep Wounds for 18s

Shadow Refuge: Evades 50% attacks for four seconds, gives +90 HP when it ends
Siphon Strength {Elite}: All attacks +33% chance of being Crits, foe deals -15 damage for 7 seconds
Way of Perfection: 27 seconds of +27 Health from each Critical hit

100% +energy armor and Zealous mods until I can test it. I also have a +20% damage customization mod, and +15% damage mod when health is >50%.
==========================================


Now I can have a max 75% chance at evading or blocking melee attacks. With one of my 15E spells gone, I have more energy to spam my new skill. I was already getting +27 HP with each Crit, but now I can heal while kiting under Shadow Refuge. Together they combine for up to a max +43 HP per second {[(3 Critsx27 HP)+90HP]/4 secs = +42.75 HP a second}. This is under SS of course, which I'll have up more often if it recharges this fast.

Conditions or degen on me while I fight? If I can even maintain +30 HP a second with these skills flowing, I am battling off -15 degen... it maxes at -10 degen so now I can REALLY keep fighting as long as I'm not Blinded. I may even be able to easily laugh off Spiteful Spirit on me :laughing: .

Kjentei
07-04-2006, 02:31
No problem....

You actually got me thinking about an alternate version for those that can't kite like the master :smiley:. Run it with the new skill below if your team has the rezzes covered. Also this might be a bit better for the chaotic 12v12 format coming up since you don't need a rez in that mode... tell me what you think:




=========================================
Ultimate Critical Assassin II

Dagger Mastery: 13
Critical Strikes: 13
Shadow Arts: 10
Deadly Arts: 4
(1 left over)

Critical Eye: 32 seconds of +6% Crits, adds +1E per Crit
Critical Defenses: 47% chance to block for four seconds, refreshes with every Crit

Black Mantis Thrust: -18 damage (Lead), Cripples a Hexed foe for 13s
Jungle Strike: -18 damage (Off-Hand), an additional -27 on a Crippled foe
Twisted Fangs: -9 damage (Dual Attack), Bleeds and Deep Wounds for 18s

Archane Echo: Copies any spell for 20 seconds
Siphon Strength {Elite}: All attacks +33% chance of being Crits, foe deals -15 damage for 7 seconds
Way of Perfection: 27 seconds of +27 Health from each Critical hit

100% +energy armor and Zealous mods until I can test it. I also have a +20% damage customization mod, and +15% damage mod when health is >50%.
=========================================

Besides the reduced combo damage (numbers are above), you lose 3.75% chance at hitting a Critical, taking you to a max of 36% chance with the elite off, and a 69% chance with it on. Your attack speed is now about 1.06 swings per second, slightly lowering your DPS.

That's still very high, but now you can gain health from every Crit you hit. Tag the enemy with five Crits and you get +135 health. If you spam basic melee attacks and use Siphon Strength twice (with AE copy) during WoP's 27 seconds, you can get about 14 Crits to connect for +369 HP. Realistically you may get 8-10 Crits during all the action, which is still a nice bonus of 216-270 HP.

Factor in the 47% chance of blocking that'll be constantly renewed with Critical Defenses up, and I can see this build holding its own decently in almost any 1v1 fight.

++++++++

I'll now try to calculate the general damage for the main version of this build at the top (L16 DM stats). The average damage with my mods is 17 (12 x 1.2 x 1.15= 16.56). I show that one Critical hit with my mods is equal to 33.2 damage (17 x 1.2 x 1.15= 23.46... so 23.46 x 1.4142= 33.2).

UCA I:

- Skill damage (not counting Condition damage): 21+21+(12x2)= 66 damage
- Deep Wound: 100 damage on a 500 HP foe
- Base damage per skill attack (SS off): about 83 damage assuming one Crit
- 73% chance of Crits with 2x SS on six melee spam hits each= 166x2= 332 damage

TOTAL DAMAGE = 581 damage

Add an average of 29 damage for each melee hit with SS on (and CE of course), add an average of 22 damage for each melee hit with SS off. This figures in the Critical chance and its damage in each circumstance.

:shocked: Pure genius, that's a really good build. :wink: This is the best warrior-takedown I've seen. Though I can see it being dulled by things like Healing Seed and SS.

I disagree about Primal Rage though, Erasculio. The -15 damage hex is worth it.

arredondo
07-04-2006, 02:33
Thanks! It's even better now that you evade/block 75% melee as you gain +30HP to +43HP average per second you battle (while keeping your enchants up). It may even fight through Spiteful Spirit if the damage is < 30 HP per swing (I'll tell my friends to give me room to operate of course). The latest version was just edited in above your post.

shaktiboi
07-04-2006, 05:16
Shadow Refuge: Evades 50% attacks for four seconds, gives +90 HP when it ends
...

Way of Perfection: 27 seconds of +27 Health from each Critical hit

...

Now I can have a max 75% chance at evading or blocking melee attacks. With one of my 15E spells gone, I have more energy to spam my new skill. I was already getting +27 HP with each Crit, but now I can heal while kiting under Shadow Refuge. Together they combine for up to a max +43 HP per second {[(3 Critsx27 HP)+90HP]/4 secs = +42.75 HP a second}. This is under SS of course, which I'll have up more often if it recharges this fast.

Conditions or degen on me while I fight? If I can even maintain +30 HP a second with these skills flowing, I am battling off -15 degen... it maxes at -10 degen so now I can REALLY keep fighting as long as I'm not Blinded. I may even be able to easily laugh off Spiteful Spirit on me :laughing: .

I'll vouch for the effectiveness of Shadow Refuge alone. It served me wonderfully all through FPE, even when playing as a tank in PvE. In my PvE build for retail release, I was already planning to go with Shadow Refuge and Way of Protection. You will be able withstand everything but a concerted attack by multiple foes.

I think this latest version of your build is a real winner. It's probably good for PvE too. I bet you could substitute either Shadow Refuge or Way of Protection for a Rez skill. With Critical Defenses lasting 6 seconds when you really get in trouble in PvE, I'm willing to bet that just one of the healing skills would be enough. Or, perhaps you could substitute out the Critical Defenses for the rez. Really, Shadow Refuge mitigates a ton of damage and you can spam it very often during battle.

I will definitely look forward to trying this out once I get my PvE Assassin high enough. (I only like to PvP with chars that I "raised" myself.)

shaktiboi
07-04-2006, 05:22
==========================================
UCA II ver. B

Dagger Mastery: 13
Critical Strikes: 13
Shadow Arts: 10
Deadly Arts: 4
(1 left over)

Critical Eye: 32 seconds of +6% Crits, adds +1E per Crit
Critical Defenses: 47% chance to block for four seconds, refreshes with every Crit

Black Mantis Thrust: -18 damage (Lead), Cripples a Hexed foe for 13s
Jungle Strike: -18 damage (Off-Hand), an additional -27 on a Crippled foe
Twisted Fangs: -9 damage (Dual Attack), Bleeds and Deep Wounds for 18s

Shadow Refuge: Evades 50% attacks for four seconds, gives +90 HP when it ends
Siphon Strength {Elite}: All attacks +33% chance of being Crits, foe deals -15 damage for 7 seconds
Way of Perfection: 27 seconds of +27 Health from each Critical hit

100% +energy armor and Zealous mods until I can test it. I also have a +20% damage customization mod, and +15% damage mod when health is >50%.
==========================================


What if you put one decent TP skill in this build, in place of one of the healing spells? It could either be a nasty to-target TP like Scorpion Wire, or an "escape" TP like recall. That would offer a lot of tactical mobility and I bet you would still have plenty of damage mitigation. Or you could keep both of the healing spells and just get rid of Critical Defenses since it's only good for 6 seconds at a time anyway?

JodoKast
07-04-2006, 14:13
Shadow Refuge also changed since the first beta:


For 4 seconds, you take half damage. When Shadow Refuge ends, you are healed for 30-102.

shaktiboi
07-04-2006, 15:28
Shadow Refuge also changed since the first beta:


For 4 seconds, you take half damage. When Shadow Refuge ends, you are healed for 30-102.

Yep yep. Shadow Refuge is really really good. That "half damage" bit really saved my bacon numerous times. And again, you can spam it often during battle.

MaximumSquid
07-04-2006, 19:56
keep fighting as long as I'm not Blinded. add illusion hexes, knockdowns, and "your bane"; Ritualist's dull weapon spell to that list. =/


I may even be able to easily laugh off Spiteful Spirit on me :laughing: now THAT is something worth applauding!

There doesn't seem to be an applauding smiley so please accept this propellerman from me in its place

:propeller:

arredondo
08-04-2006, 09:18
Thanks for the input everyone. I really am glad that some of the skills were reworked in the final BWE setup. It makes things much easier to flow, and I think it only helps this overall concept. There are a few ideas I have about switching in for the "free" spot, but I tend to look for more defense first. If possible, I tend to choose a good defense in a line I'm already supporting rather than make a new one. That's why I picked the one that I did.

I like Critical Defenses (six seconds now?) because once it's on me, I no longer need to spend energy to maintain it... just spam criticals and it stays on "forever". I think I can get one crit every six seconds, lol. If I'm not using it, it's because I'm kiting or no one's attacking me. If a teleport skill appeals to me though, and I have the stats to easily support it, I'll give it a whirl.

BTW, if you liked the Ultimate Critical Assassin concept, you'll love the Ultimate DPS Assassin:

http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?p=4011947#post4011947

Neminis
12-04-2006, 22:44
I haven't read the whole thread, but if you want to max out the number of critical hits you make, you should think about switching out Twisting Fangs for Critical Strike:

Critical Strike
Description: Must follow an off-hand attack. If it hits, this attack strikes for +10-26 damage and resuslts in a critical hit.
Energy Cost: 10
Activation Time:None.
Recharge Time: 6 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: Critical Strikes. Increases damage dealt.
Skill Type: Dual Attack.

arredondo
13-04-2006, 03:40
Technically you are correct in a sense because you guarantee TWO crits occuring here, but the max damage is higher for me with Twisting Fangs. The Deep Wound is very strong, almost equaling the damage of the Dual Attack you're mentioning all by itself (106 damage for Critical Strike). There is still up to a 73% chance TF will get a Crit, but without it the damage is still very nice and Bleeding adds DPS.

I would actually bring Critical Strike on a build that has a much lower chance at getting a critical on its own despite high CS points. That way I don't have the two abilities overlapping if that makes sense. For instance, it might be on a build that doesn't use DM as a primary attack line.

But thanks for the suggestion... the latest version of the build is on page 2 if you ever want to read through it.

Bobross
13-04-2006, 14:19
I would actually bring Critical Strike on a build that has a much lower chance at getting a critical on its own despite high CS points. That way I don't have the two abilities overlapping if that makes sense. For instance, it might be on a build that doesn't use DM as a primary attack line.


I see what you're saying here, you already have a really high chance of getting a crit anyway...so a guaranteed crit really doesn't mean all that much. It's about useful in this build, as if you were using a skill that gave you a +20% chance to crit for that hit. So fox fangs which may also turn out to be crits seems a better choice...I think I'll take that into consideration with my builds as well.

arredondo
16-05-2006, 08:16
I finally got the skills up to test out this theory (http://forums.gwonline.net/showpost.php?p=4009179&postcount=5) build from awhile back...

- Critical Defenses sucks. Even with an incredible chance of getting a Crit it goes down often and takes a long time coming back. Even with Criticals connecting and Shadow Refuge being used, I had a tougher time fighting other melee characters moreso than my Moebius Striker build. I left off WoP because of course I have to have a rez. Without Critical Eye, the setup would be too expensive to keep up.

- Siphon Strength sucks. Yes I was able to get my perfect 34 damage almost every hit, but it's not all that to be honest. You can get as much total damage by adding a non-elite like Barbs or a pet. It takes too long to bring an enemy down, especially compared to all the other assassination builds out there.

If something that I haven't realized comes around to change my mind, I'll post it. As for now, the Ultimate Critical Assassin works as advertised by getting the ultimate amount of Crits, but the results are definitely lacking.

Feynt
16-05-2006, 08:58
I've never had an issue with Critical Defenses going down too often. In fact in one fight I managed to keep it going a full two minutes (booyah). In fact for a while it was my only enchantment for Golden Phoenix Strike because a mesmer had disabled my Sharpen Daggers.

arredondo
17-05-2006, 03:22
Was that PvP?

In any case, I put Critical Daggers on my DPS assassin build (Locus Fury) and had better results. It is a nice defense when it works so I take back my criticism of it. Siphon Strength however still does not feel woth the elite spot, but I'll keep working on it.

Azgalon
17-05-2006, 04:34
I have Critical Strikes 13, and i have alot higher chance to block with Critical Defences.

I think it's around 67 % or so at Crit Strikes 13.

arredondo
17-05-2006, 05:36
Same here... they improved it at launch after I first posted this. It's 68% BTW.

Feynt
17-05-2006, 06:56
Was that PvP?

In any case, I put Critical Daggers on my DPS assassin build (Locus Fury) and had better results. It is a nice defense when it works so I take back my criticism of it. Siphon Strength however still does not feel woth the elite spot, but I'll keep working on it.

8 matches of 12 vs 12 matches during the preview, and more recently against monsters in PvM. 12 vs. 12 is my playground because it's so chaotic it's easy to disappear if you aren't a direct target. Or to sneak up on someone. ^.^

Most notably was one time that I stood toe to toe with a warrior in a losing match (our teams knew who was going to win when the score was 200 points difference, so we all just kind of split up to do our own things). We both hammered on each other for a good two or three minutes before we gave up with trying to kill each other. My Critical Defenses and Way of Perfection ensured I never took enough damage to go below 3/4 health, and for some reason my damage on her was a paltry 2-5 dispite having 12 Dagger Mastery (my attack skills weren't so hot either, 20s at best. x.x ). Her build was interesting and confusing, because I had previously pared three of her warrior comrades in that matching quite easily.

arredondo
17-05-2006, 07:16
Way of Perfection... I've been meaning to unlock that. Whenever I bring CD, I'll try and have WoP. Too bad Assassin skills are all over the attribute map. It's tough sometimes to bring what you want and support it properly.

Furako
25-05-2006, 17:43
I,ve just think this build

Critical strike : 11+3 (+14% critical, +3 Energy every critical)
Dager mastery : 11+1+1 (+18% critical, 24% double attack)
Shadow arts : 8+1
Deadly arts : 3+1

Critical eye : +7% critical, + 1 energy every critical
Way of perfection : +25 HP every critical
Critical defenses : 72% block for 6 sec. renewed every critical
Sharpen Daggers : every critical cause Bleeding for 14 sec.
Siphon Strength (Elite) : give you +33% change to land a critical hit
Black lotus strike : Must hit an Hexed foe, give you 18 energy (off hand attack)
Critical Strike : Must follow an off hand attack, if hit count as a critical hit
Resurrection signet

Change to land a critical hit : 14+18+7+33=72%
every critical mean : Bleeding for 14 secs, +4 energy and +25 HP for you, another 6 second with 72% chance to block attacks.

Aladar
25-05-2006, 18:02
Shadow Refuge also changed since the first beta:


For 4 seconds, you take half damage. When Shadow Refuge ends, you are healed for 30-102.

That was how it was in the PvP weekend. In the FPE, it was For 4 seconds, you have a 50% to "block" attacks. When Shadow Refuge ends, you are healed for 30-102.

I liked the first one the most...

shaktiboi
25-05-2006, 19:49
That was how it was in the PvP weekend. In the FPE, it was For 4 seconds, you have a 50% to "block" attacks. When Shadow Refuge ends, you are healed for 30-102.

I liked the first one the most...

Actually, I'm pretty certain that in FPE it was "you take 50% damage".

Selene Raseth
25-05-2006, 20:50
With the idea of getting as much as you could out of critical strike, it seems strange to take attack skills that don't guarantee a hit. The effects they have are nice, but with so many stances out there for most classes, it seems strange to have nothing to hit through them. Skills such as expose defenses or way of the fox would let you keep the combo you already have. Using fox fang and nine-tails strike would let you bypass those and still get the hits through. Or possibly just take something from a dual class to cancel the stances. As is the builds are pretty good, just suffer from defenses and blindness. Taking ones that guarantee hits will reduce the weakness down to just the blindness, which without being /me could be taken care of by /n plague touch, and ensure you hit each time to get those energy boosts from critical strike.

Guildwars master
27-05-2006, 03:36
i should try this out even though i have beaten the game already

arredondo
31-05-2006, 00:05
It seems I tried the wrong version before in my in-game test; looking back at old posts it seems I had meant to add Way of Perfection all along to this version. Since the defense in this elite has been buffed significantly, I'll try this again:

==========================================
Ultimate Critical Assassin ver. C

Dagger Mastery: 13
Critical Strikes: 13
Shadow Arts: 10
Deadly Arts: 4
(1 left over)

Critical Eye: 32 seconds of +6% Crits, adds +1E per Crit
Critical Defenses: 47% chance to block for six seconds, refreshes with every Crit

Black Mantis Thrust: -18 damage (Lead), Cripples a Hexed foe for 13s
Jungle Strike: -18 damage (Off-Hand), an additional -27 on a Crippled foe
Twisted Fangs: -19 damage (Dual Attack), Bleeds and Deep Wounds for 27s

Siphon Strength {Elite}: All attacks +33% chance of being Crits, foe deals -43 damage for 10 seconds
Way of Perfection: 27 seconds of +27 Health from each Critical hit
Shadow Refuge or Rez: +8 regen for 4s, +68HP if attacking when it ends.

100% +energy armor and Zealous mods until I can test it. I also have a +20% damage customization mod, and +15% damage mod when health is >50%.
==========================================

I'll report back on how it goes.