PDA

View Full Version : Infinitely Offensive Attacker



arredondo
12-04-2006, 10:30
Wow, the Assassin skill list continues to impress me. This build could be one of the most solid ones I've made for the class. If the numbers work out well (theory mode here until Factions comes out), it could provide infinite offense (until they Blind you, lol). This is a "sister" build to my "Unstoppable Assassin" post:

http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=393626

================================
Infinitely Offensive Attacker (As/X)

Dagger Mastery: 15
Critical Strikes: 11
Shadow Arts: 11
Wilderness Survival: 1


Critical Eye: +1E per crit, +5% chance
Serpent's Quickness or Rez: 16s of +33s skill recharge
Way of the Lotus: +16E after a Dual Attack (Hex)
Dash: +50% speed for 3s
Dancing Daggers: Three Daggers hit for 17 damage each (Lead spell)
Fox Fangs: Un-evadable/blockable offhand hits for 17 damage
Nine Tail Strike: Un-evadable/blockable dual attack hits twice for 33 damage
Moebius Strike {E}: Off hand for after dual attack. 28 damage, all skills recharge (8s recharge)
Shadow Refuge: +100 health and half damage for 4 seconds.

Until I can test, assume full +energy armor, Zealous, +20% custom and +15% HP>50% damage mods
================================

Like most of my builds, you can generally cast everything in the order listed most of the time. The idea here was to have a build that fuels itself, does decent damage, can stay with kiters, have hits that aren't easily avoidable, and still have room for some protection and healing. I think I checked off everything on my list with this one. :tongue:

Turn on Critical Eye. When you approach enemy, use Serpent's Quickness if you have it, then cast Way of the Lotus and you'll get a +16E bonus at the end of your attack sequence. You can also wait to cast it right before the Dual Attack trigger to protect it from easy removal.

As soon as you are in spell cast range (halfway in aggro bubble), you can cast DD for your Lead... it can't be blocked or evaded as it is a spell. Move in and attack with Fox Fangs and 9TS.... both attacks can not be evaded or blocked. WotL can be cast just before 9TS if you wish, but either way it'll give you +16E at this time. Use Dash if you have to, but it will cancel out SQs quick recharge rate for SR and the elite (not a major problem though).

After all the attacks are done, cast Moebius Strike if they are below 50% health for more damage and a recharge of all your skills. SQ (which is also recharged) will recharge the elite in five seconds, so you can right away go into the same setup again and again and again until your enemy dies or you are shutdown (Blind, e-drain, snares, etc.). If the enemy was healed and is above 50%, allow SQ to finish the speed up on recharges before you restart.

Energy: Critical Eye is cast early... you now get +3E per Critical, which occur in 36% of your attacks. Of course you get +1 from Zealous in every hit as well as your +1E per second from normal regen (keep the +1.3E normal knives handy when not attacking).

You'll be getting about 3E a second while attacking, besides the +16E energy when WotL kicks in, so mana won't be much of a problem in this build. After the final energy bonus, it should take no time for you to get enough normal hits for energy to do it all again.

Damage: (vs. 60 AL enemy). You get 37 per Critical and about 27 average damage per normal hit (including crits). That's 117 average damage for the base hits of your attack skills (include the elite, not the Lead spell). The skill damage adds another 214. I have no Conditions or Hex damage, so this comes to 331 damage (average) using attack skills alone.

Kiters: Your Dash is only 3s, but you are at top speed of +50%. You don't need Dash or need to be close to open with DD. You can then Dash and easily connect your final three attacks (FF, 9TS, MS) if you set it up properly. Don't use it if you don't need it so SQ can stay up for MS. It'll be recharged fast with MS like everything else.

Reliability: Only Moebius Strike isn't a free hit in this build. That's pretty good, and you can always save it if you are sure it won't connect. And since you recharge and gain energy near simultaneously, you can continue to reappy your pressre attacks as long as possible.

Protection/Healing: Until it proves me wrong, I'll trust Shadow Refuges +100 HP and -50% damage ability. It works for 4s and is off for 4s, but if SQ is up, it'll recharge in close to 5s. With MS, it'll instantly recharge for a very fast +200 net if you really need it.

Will it all work in the end as I've planned? I hope so. I have almost all my key skills at 5E on purpose just so mana won't hold it back from consistently reapplying everything once it all recharges from MS. I didn't include Conditions because I wanted nothing removable (my Hex can be cast at the last second) and I wanted almost all un-evadable/blockable attacks.

Besides, re-applying Conditions, if I had those skills and they connected, doesn't improve my damage much if I have to do the entire sequence 3-4 times on a well-healed enemy who removes them. This is designed to be more about coming in with constant pressure as opposed to spiking the enemy to death. And if energy is not an issue, I'll switch in stronger skills as needed.

Less than a month to go before release and then I'll know more, which I'll post here. :wave:

scorche
12-04-2006, 13:10
gr8 idea first of all... but doing all unavoidable hits in your combo really gives up alot of damage the the avoidable ones have. so I personaly won't be using this build much.
secondly, dancing daggers is deadly arts, not shadow arts, so it'll strike for around 5 dmg each. I'm not sure what a good unavoidable replacement would be... but I'll post it when i tell u :P
but instead of just a plain unavoidable lead attack, you could use way of the fox and a regular lead attack, like leaping mantis sting to cripple those annoying runners ^^

MaximumSquid
12-04-2006, 15:26
Mobius strike is usually more favorable in a degen build. If your target has 595 life you sometimes need to wait a few moments for their health to be under 50% before you cut into them with your elite.

I was trying to make a relentless build on paper before, and I dont' know why I didnt' think to use a deadly arts lead. :sad:

We'll have to see what the metagame brings, but I see Way of the Fox spike being more versatile than running the skills that are akin to irresistable blow, swift chop, and seeking blade.

Gangrel
12-04-2006, 15:44
Dancing Daggers (availability)
Description: Send out three Dancing Daggers at target foe. Each striking for 8-18 earth damage if they hit. Dancing Daggers has half the normal range. This skill counts as a lead attack.
Energy Cost: 5
Activation Time: 1 Second.
Recharge Time: 5 Seconds.
Linked Attribute: Deadly Arts. Increases damage.
Skill Type: Spell.

They are a spell but the daggers that fly out might be treated as projectiles (the 'if they hit' part) and if so they can be evaded/blocked.

Siphon speed would be much better IMO instead of dash if would decide to use deadly arts (either switch out DD, or put points into DA).

Everything else looks good :)

Viri
12-04-2006, 17:56
They are a spell but the daggers that fly out might be treated as projectiles (the 'if they hit' part) and if so they can be evaded/blocked.

Magical projectiles like lighting orb and dancing daggers cannot be evaded/blocked. You can dodge them but considering dancing daggers have half the normal range it's almost impossible.

Patccmoi
12-04-2006, 19:20
I think i'd rather look into Way of the Fox + SQ + damaging attack combo.

Way of the Fox with enough points in it can work for your next 5-6 attacks. This can be enough for something like Lead-Off-Hand-Dual-Off-Hand-Dual if you pick appropriate skills. Or you can use something like Golden Pheonix and ignore the lead and do off-hand-dual-off-hand-dual.

Because without the conditions, it would seem that your damage is actually fairly weak. You don't have much more than clean +damage, and not impressively high.

Bravo
12-04-2006, 19:21
Double check the description on moebious strike, you might not find it as useful as you are claiming. For instance, compare with determined shot, flourish and oath shot.

It will only recharge your (other) attack skills.

ShadowKntSDS
12-04-2006, 19:24
Last time I checked they could be blocked by some stances:

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Block

scorche
12-04-2006, 21:18
I think that magical projectiles are not blocked, but projectile attacks are. the only thing that can block magical projectiles is swirling aura.

arredondo
12-04-2006, 21:45
Thanks for the input everyone. I did mislabel DD so I have to adjust the build, which I'll put below. However there was a general purpose for choosing the skills I did that may not be clear... I revised it a LOT before finally committing to the 1st draft above. Here's what was important to me.

I wanted this to be able to apply pressure with as little room for mitigation as I could. I wanted to take away a lot of "well if this happens, then what?" situations to ensure that there would be a maximum amount of time when almost everything works. It can never be perfect, but that's what I was trying to do.

First on the list needed to be attacks that can't be evaded or blocked through stances/enchants (hexes still stop it). There aren't many Assassin skills that can do that by themselves, and I thought of going with Expose Defenses and bulking up on high damage (Pat suggests WotF, which is nice as well). That requires that that enchant/hex be up or the pressure is off of Guardian/Distortion users. I didn't want any extra "but what if they remove..." situation to be part of this, if that makes any sense. The skills need to operate independant of the defensive battle conditions (other than Blind, hexes on me, etc) so I can simulate steady pressure damage.

I'm not going for the spike kill this time, remember... I wanted to be able to re-apply the attack skills steadily, over and over until they die or until I am stopped. The recharge elite Moebius Strike is what (theoretically) allows my build to do just that.

So while damage wasn't the main goal, the one at the top isn't that bad. I did miscalculate as it is about 270 damage, not 331. Still, 270 damage from one 5s combo chain is pretty nice considering all but the last hit can't be stopped by anti-evade/block skills (yes DD can be manually avoided like Flares, but you ensure you do it in close). Keep in mind that the main point of the build is that after the 270 damage, you recharge everything and apply 270 again.

If you keep applying steady damage of -55% every 8 seconds or so, it'll eventually bring down your foe (in theory of course). With that approach, it's difficult to include Conditions (I thought) because they don't stack on themselves with multiple uses, they mostly come on skills that can be blocked or evaded, and they often cost more than I wanted in the first draft.

Energy is the other major issue for choosing what I did. I do not want lack of energy from applying the same combo repeatedly to become an issue, so for now I have mostly 5E skills and a lot of ways to increase mana as I fight. If I have enough to spare, I will switch in a few of many skills I considered. The good ones often cost 10E and can be avoided with certain stances/enchants.

Lastly, I wanted to not depend on applying Hexes and Enchants (like Conditions) as much as possible to control kiting. I wanted this to work even if someone had CoP to cancel my layering tactics or had enchant dispells. That means snares of all types (Cripple or Hex) were tricky to bring in. Instead I leaned toward speed boosts from a stance (Dash) since stances are more likely to be reliable. I don't have to worry too much about most enemies stopping it.

I do have two enchants, true, but it is for energy management, not attacks. If the energy comes to me from crits and zealous, I can still use the three attack skills as I see fit since they don't depend on "outside help".

So Pat, your way is great, and improves on a number of things as you point out (i.e. damage, debilitation) while getting close to the effect I was trying for. But it also conflicts in some ways that I'm pointing out above (i.e. attack skills are not independant of an enchant/hex, removable conditions added for damage instead of applying straight steady damage, etc.). I may end up having to go your route as I originally started to do, but I will keep trying the simplified approach for now.

Summary: Be able to spam a nearly unavoidable attack combo that works on its own (no Hex or enchant needed for success), earn enough energy (and use cheap enough skills) to make the mana costs at a non-issue, control kiters without removable hexes or conditions, be able to repeat the sequence over and over until they die or you are stopped.

With all that said, here's the second revision with a few changes:

===================================
Infinitely Offensive Attacker (As/X)

Dagger Mastery: 15
Shadow Arts: 11
Critical Strikes: 8
Deadly Arts: 8
Wilderness Survival: 3

Critical Eye: +1E per crit, +3% chance
Serpent's Quickness or Rez: 18s of +33s skill recharge
Way of the Lotus: +16E after a Dual Attack (Hex)
Dark Escape: 12s of +25% speed, -50% damage if you don't connect an attack
Dancing Daggers: Three Daggers hit for 13 damage each (Lead spell)
Fox Fangs: Un-evadable/blockable offhand hits for 17 damage
Nine Tail Strike: Un-evadable/blockable dual attack hits twice for 33 damage
Moebius Strike {E}: Off hand for after dual attack. 28 damage, all skills recharge (8s recharge)
Shadow Refuge: +100 health and half damage for 4 seconds.

Until I can test, assume full +energy armor, Zealous, +20% custom and +15% HP>50% damage mods
===================================

I was able to keep most of the damage intact, but I lowered the chance at a crit -5% net. I also took out Dash because of this really cool stance called Dark Escape. It is half as fast but lasts almost 5x longer, plus it provides extra protection on top of my Shadow Refuge if I need to stack and kite (-75% damage with +100 HP!).

Again only use the speed boost when needed since it cancels SQ, but if you need to reach a kiter, go into this stance and you can easily apply the full sequence of hits as I've outlined.

The damage comes to about 255 overall (on average), so you can apply basically 50% damage to your target every 6-8 seconds. You can out run him if needed, and he can't easily stop your from hurting him. If the energy issues hold up well, you can re-use the combo an infinite amount of times.

JeanDeathwish
12-04-2006, 22:17
but doing all unavoidable hits in your combo really gives up alot of damage the the avoidable ones have.

Think again. Nine Tail Strike is the second most powerful Dual Attack in terms of +damage. Death Blossom, being first, offers the same +damage but also some extra damage to adjacent foes. Both have potential for great damage and with taking Nine Tail over Death Blossom you are not cutting your damage to one target short and taking Death Blossom in PvP may as well be due to the many stances/enchantments and foes rarely being adjacent.

EDIT: Im not to sure about this but because its a spell, I think that Dancing Daggers will still count as a lead attack even if all 3 projectiles are blocked/evaded.

arredondo
12-04-2006, 23:20
Double check the description on moebious strike, you might not find it as useful as you are claiming. For instance, compare with determined shot, flourish and oath shot.

It will only recharge your (other) attack skills.

I just picked up on what you said. This will require a lot more thought since Dark Escape and SQ are not affected by the recharge.

Moron With Stick
15-04-2006, 09:46
U know what would make this so much more awesome IMO, Plague Touch, sure, ull lose SQ, but with plague touch, ull never be stopped by blind :-) and it takes no attribute, recharges quick, low energy.

That way u can keep ur other skills nearer to maxed out. Just an Idea.

Nanashi
15-04-2006, 14:39
If mobious strike isn't as reliable as one would hope. Perhaps switching it with Palm Strike as it cannot be blocked or evaded... correct me if I'm wrong. It's damage is also pretty good so with DM up high, you're going to do a farely good ammount of damage in one blow. Not only that but it can start off on it's own and lead into dual attack, I think.

I don't have the skill memorised and I had little to no time at experimenting with it during the FPE nor the previous PVP weekend event.


Energy: Critical Eye is cast early... you now get +3E per Critical, which occur in 36% of your attacks. Of course you get +1 from Zealous in every hit as well as your +1E per second from normal regen (keep the +1.3E normal knives handy when not attacking).

Zealous Mods: Are we sure that this mod is 1/1 and not the 3/1? I just want to make sure on this because I see a lot of mixed messages going around so I just wanted to make sure that one of the two is the correct mod stats.

Zero
15-04-2006, 14:57
Zealous is always 1:1

Symbolic Self
15-04-2006, 16:10
The problem with this build is that it's a dps assassin build with almost no spike capability and the dps is, sad to say, not all that great. A warrior with dragon slash/galrath slash/standing slash would be able to spike harder and do much greater dps, along with being more durable. You do have the advantage of your attack skills being unavoidable, but to take advantage of that you either need high sustained dps or a big spike, which this build does not have.

The problem with assassin dps is that dual attacks don't occur with attack skills (you tested this right?) and the base damage on daggers is a bit low. I think there's still promise in an A/R running tiger's fury and repeating strike with 13 CS, critical eye, and zealous for energy. However I'm not sure if even this is going to top some of the new dpsing warrior elites. *sigh*

I XM
15-04-2006, 21:41
I don't think they intended Assassins to play like warriors. Warriors have sustained DPS and good defense. Assassins are going to have to be about spiking, utility and "tactical mobility" if they are to have a place. Trying to compete with a warrior based build for sustained DPS is pointless.