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DEATHSHEAD
16-04-2006, 18:05
The assasin proves to be a excellent dmg-deal class with some neat tricks to add up conditions on foes. Some excellent hexes, enchantments and stances. But what will his role be? An assasin can hardly play tank even though I have some ideas. Dmg-dealer? Well, elementalists are nukers and SS necros show excellent dmg-dealing cappabilities. I'm really interested in your opinion about the assasins role in a PvE party. All opinions are welcome, as long as they have a some sense :smiley:

FSuber
16-04-2006, 18:42
I think the ablility to shadow step to and back from an enemies location will be a great asset to pulling. I also the Assassin will add to a quick kill system, with the ability to string attacks together and stack conditions, they will prove to be valuable against large parties.

I XM
16-04-2006, 18:50
With the large number of assassins in Factions, I think the role of assassins will be to act as party leader... to a party consisting of himself and henchmen. :p

Sad but true. :p

Lethys
16-04-2006, 19:18
Assassins could do lots of damage, I remember a few times when my group wasn't dealing enough damage because there were lots of monks around and a monk boss. Sometimes the group can acctually kill them slowly but other times the groups are invincible. I think assassins will help out alot in these situations.

Syes
16-04-2006, 19:53
Unfortunately, I'm inclined to agree with I XM, and I like assassins.

What role should assassins have ? Well, the preview event suggests that mob-groups will be more diverse than we're perhaps used to from Prophecies. The assassin is ideal to take out more troublesome enemies (monk, mesmers etc), without putting himself in too much direct danger.

Doubt whether that's what we'll see from the average PuG though.

Final Noob
17-04-2006, 01:16
Umm elementalists are only good for aeing clusters, and necros are decent on long boss fight, assasins are better for tearing through single targets and killing monk mobs

Zaxares
17-04-2006, 02:49
I believe PvE assassins will often be called upon as melee spikers. Assassins have a great advantage over warriors and other spellcasters in that they can pull off massive damage combos in a very short amount of time, and with very little setup as they do not have the adrenaline requirement of warriors, and most of their combos are over in 5 seconds or less. They can probably do the most damage in the opening seconds of combat out of all the 8 different professions (except perhaps mesmers) and are thus superbly suited to quick precision strikes upon key members of the enemy group such as monks, mesmers and ritualists.

Since assassins don't take damage very well, I expect them to work in tandem with tank warriors a lot. The warrior goes in, holds aggro, the assassin moves/teleports in, unloads her combo spike on a key target, kills it, teleports out again. Any survivors are mopped up by the nukers/MMs/rangers etc.

shaktiboi
17-04-2006, 04:50
Don't knock the assassin's ability to off-tank. With Shadow Refuge you are surprisingly resilient. I tanked all through FPE no problem.

Where I see the Assassin fitting in with a party best, though, is playing the role of damage-assist and/or protection for the soft targets, as well as performing some shutdown with Temple Strike. If you take advantage of the unique mobility of Return and Siphon Speed, you can instantly help any soft target in trouble by shutting down their assailant with a variety of conditions. When not helping the soft targets in trouble, you're added damage on the main targets.

MaximumSquid
17-04-2006, 04:57
I believe PvE assassins will often be called upon as melee spikers. QFT

I've only seen 2 builds for assassins in a GvG situation. One was a flagger, but the other was designed to whip out and kill body guards exclusively.

If your talking PvE an assassins would be good for applying conditions to a single target. A/Me with epidemic looks like it could be annahilation for the majority of the PvE fights.

For 12v12 assassins or assassin secondary will be pretty much a standard for making NPC gank squads or stand alone characters.

Arena play? Almost doesn't matter what you bring. .. You'll probably do good damage and kill people that aren't running direct counters to your build.

Cantos
17-04-2006, 06:08
I believe PvE assassins will often be called upon as melee spikers. Assassins have a great advantage over warriors and other spellcasters in that they can pull off massive damage combos in a very short amount of time, and with very little setup as they do not have the adrenaline requirement of warriors, and most of their combos are over in 5 seconds or less. They can probably do the most damage in the opening seconds of combat out of all the 8 different professions (except perhaps mesmers) and are thus superbly suited to quick precision strikes upon key members of the enemy group such as monks, mesmers and ritualists.

Since assassins don't take damage very well, I expect them to work in tandem with tank warriors a lot. The warrior goes in, holds aggro, the assassin moves/teleports in, unloads her combo spike on a key target, kills it, teleports out again. Any survivors are mopped up by the nukers/MMs/rangers etc.The only roles in Prophecies PvE are tanking, healing and damage. If an Assassin cannot tank as well as a warrior, or heal as well as a monk (or ritualist I guess), then they will need to do more damage than the current methods. You may not have noticed this, but the only sort of damage people are interested in is AoE. People take Echo nukers, SS necros and Barrage Rangers. Unless an Assassin can outperform Spiteful Spirit then no one will want them in their groups.

Maybe Factions PvE will be more complicated or just harder and people will need to step up their play, but I think PuGs will stick to their tank - AoE - heal setup and lock out anything that doesnt fit in. No one wants "melee spikers" for any PvE area right now, and I have to guess no one will want them for Factions either.

Longasc
17-04-2006, 08:48
Cantos has a point.
PvE is about mass destruction. Subtle or not so subtle assassination of a key target can still have its merits.

But even with tricks Assassins are not as resilient as Warriors or even Rangers. But maybe ANet designed some areas around Assassin lure & recall tricks.

But Cantos is right, it is the people. New ideas need time to get into our heads. With A/Rt already being projected as the new Wammo, you can bet that parties will autoinvite Eles and Minion Masters while spamming "Group lf Nuker, MM, SS, Monk" whatsoever, but for sure "no more *****".


I fear Assassins will have to learn to play with Assassin heavy groups, if they can coordinate their attacks on one or few targets they maybe can spike them down! But many will probably rely on henchmen.

shaktiboi
17-04-2006, 19:32
The only roles in Prophecies PvE are tanking, healing and damage. If an Assassin cannot tank as well as a warrior...

I'd like a chance to convince you that Assassins can indeed make passable tanks. Please list the basic features of a warrior that make them suitable for the "tank" role. I will then attempt to list the features of an Assassin that can help them equal or at least come close to the tanking features of a warrior.

noocoo
17-04-2006, 20:27
I'd like a chance to convince you that Assassins can indeed make passable tanks. Please list the basic features of a warrior that make them suitable for the "tank" role. I will then attempt to list the features of an Assassin that can help them equal or at least come close to the tanking features of a warrior.
Unfortunately,
Wars will have many new defence stance and new stance renew skill in factions
They can do better tank than Assassin.
So.....why would ppl choose Assassin for tank??

Besides...
There were already so many wars here that it was hard to find a job called tank.



I love assassin too, but I cant see any benefits to invite a assassin into a pve group

MaximumSquid
17-04-2006, 20:28
If you take the assassin armor that yields a bonus while fighting you can tank just as well as a warrior.

The assassin self heals are far superior to anything the warrior has with the exception of ViM.

Just take AoE skills like Caltrops and death blossom and i'm sure nobody in your group will complain.

shaktiboi
17-04-2006, 20:36
If you take the assassin armor that yields a bonus while fighting you can tank just as well as a warrior.

The assassin self heals are far superior to anything the warrior has with the exception of ViM.

Just take AoE skills like Caltrops and death blossom and i'm sure nobody in your group will complain.


Indeed. Off the top of my head, I was thinking of Shadow Refuge as one good example. 1-sec cast time, 5E, gives you the equivalent of 110 AL (vs elemental too, and versus DD spell damage too) for 4 seconds, and then gives you roughly 100 HP back after another 4 seconds. Cheap enough to spam almost constantly every 8 seconds.

And that's just one damage mitigation skill among many.

Kakashi Chan
17-04-2006, 22:35
Unfortunately Asassins in PvE will have the same roll as Rangers. There will be a ton of them standing around LFG. And whenever there are a couple in a group most other "superior" players will refuse to join the group. Assassins will be the new shunned profession. Now this will be in part because there will be about 150,000 assassins roaming around on the first day... myself included. But in general assassins not being able to idiot tank tank (tanking with no skill required) and not being an AoE will make them iunwanted.

Bobross
17-04-2006, 23:55
Unfortunately Asassins in PvE will have the same roll as Rangers. There will be a ton of them standing around LFG. And whenever there are a couple in a group most other "superior" players will refuse to join the group. Assassins will be the new shunned profession. Now this will be in part because there will be about 150,000 assassins roaming around on the first day... myself included. But in general assassins not being able to idiot tank tank (tanking with no skill required) and not being an AoE will make them iunwanted.

I think even if they're not shunned for ability, they'll be so numerous that no party will want more than 2...and so there will be lots lfg.

So you take all those lone assassins, bring your self heals and start a group of only assassins...it'll work sorta like ranger spike groups, but in pve. Should be fun...and crazy to watch.

TooBadUnknown
18-04-2006, 01:26
Unfortunately Asassins in PvE will have the same roll as Rangers. There will be a ton of them standing around LFG. And whenever there are a couple in a group most other "superior" players will refuse to join the group. Assassins will be the new shunned profession. Now this will be in part because there will be about 150,000 assassins roaming around on the first day... myself included. But in general assassins not being able to idiot tank tank (tanking with no skill required) and not being an AoE will make them iunwanted.

Well I agree with you that, yeah, the massive amount of assassins that will be roaming around will most probably offset any assassins chance of getting into a group, but I kind of disagree with "in general assassins not being able to idiot tank tank."

I find that an A/W, with 12+ Critical Strikes Attribute, and Wild Blow + Critical Defense won't be too hard to pull off as a tank. I mean, all you'll really need to do is use Critical Defense once and just hit Wild Blow as soon as it recharges, while you'll let the healer (whether it be a player or henchman) heal you.

*Note: I've only tried the 10-hour trial for the Prophecy Campaign and do not own it (by pre-ordering Factions), and I only got to level 6 in PvE with a Mesmer, so I do not know how well what I suggested will work, and I might sound like an idiot.

Cantos
18-04-2006, 01:34
I'd like a chance to convince you that Assassins can indeed make passable tanks. Please list the basic features of a warrior that make them suitable for the "tank" role. I will then attempt to list the features of an Assassin that can help them equal or at least come close to the tanking features of a warrior.Let me counter with this. You can build a good tank with a Ranger primary now, but no one wants those either. They dont want Rangers for tanks because it is too difficult and complex for the average PuG to build or play.

The critical advantages of a warrior are Armor level and damage reduction. Even if you are clueless and dont know what skills to bring for any area, the equipment that any generic PuG warrior has will make them at least a reasonable tank.

StickyPanda
18-04-2006, 03:09
Wow, this is hard. Sins have skill recharges of about 10-20 seconds for their chain combos. So.....I guess you could throw in some damage. I don't know if a Sin can tank, I never dwelled that deep in FPE. However I am sure that groups would take a warrior over a sin just for generic.
Here is what I do know:
Group finding will be difficult for an assassin (player groups btw).

Because of this I will make a ritualist first until the classes blance out. If I label myself as a Full Prot with Fast Summon Recharge Rit I think a group will take me just because of a long cool name and because of the skills : Union Shelter Displacement and Shadowsong. However, I would probably end up saying
:Level (x) Full Prot Rit with Union, Shelter, Displacement, and ShSo lfg


With an assassin your screen would read:
Sin that can do damage, run away in a blink of an eye, and can chain the occasional boss lfg.

Overall, getting through PVE with a sin is going to be hard. Groups will accept you but monks will still be easier to get in.

Nanashi
18-04-2006, 10:39
The only roles in Prophecies PvE are tanking, healing and damage. If an Assassin cannot tank as well as a warrior, or heal as well as a monk (or ritualist I guess), then they will need to do more damage than the current methods. You may not have noticed this, but the only sort of damage people are interested in is AoE. People take Echo nukers, SS necros and Barrage Rangers. Unless an Assassin can outperform Spiteful Spirit then no one will want them in their groups.

Maybe Factions PvE will be more complicated or just harder and people will need to step up their play, but I think PuGs will stick to their tank - AoE - heal setup and lock out anything that doesnt fit in. No one wants "melee spikers" for any PvE area right now, and I have to guess no one will want them for Factions either.

Sorry but I disagree. While they may not be able to AE as affective as Eles, they still output more damage than any melee class via melee skills. They will be a valueble asset to a team that is looking for damage. Their armor is the exact same as the ranger, without the elemental resistance, so you'll stand up longer against mobs than lets say an ele getting ganked. If you're worried about armor then pick ranger as your secondary and grab both LR and WD. Most likely your target will not stand long enough for you to be wiped out depending on the mission. If you want a dmg dealing build, if not an actual spike team, assassins will play their role in which the devs saw them fit for.

Nobody wants melee spikers in PVE because there are none. IWAY looks to be the only form of melee spike we have in this game. :smiley: You conclusion may, and I believe will, come out wrong upon the release. That's just my opinion, I guess it's because I enjoy the sins so much. They proved to be quite an asset during the FPE when ventureing through PVE content. Infact most mobs didn't live long enough for me to get done with my third chain attack skill.

You don't believe they'll fit in because nobody has had an extensive test and trying to fit them in. I think they'll fit their part they were ment to be play. Just like an Ele is the king of spell casting damage, sins will be king of the melee aspect of dmg dealing.

Cantos
18-04-2006, 12:51
Nobody wants melee spikers in PVE because there are none. If you are going to make the assumption that Warriors cant deal damage, then I can perfectly understand your disagreement. Allow me to say, however, that this assumption is not correct.

lavenbb
18-04-2006, 13:40
I think the assasin's role in pve will be like mesmers, it's not that they aren't effective, it's just that they're unwanted.

an assasin does have some AE capabilities, and the shutdown+kill key targets is a big bonus. Mesmers can do the same thing too, in range, even..
Do they get partied? not really...

At least the henchies are better in factions, I bet I'll be playing with them 99% of the time.

MaximumSquid
18-04-2006, 14:43
Just say this in "All" chat in the mission breifing area:


TWISTING FANGS / EPIDEMIC ASSASSIN LFG!!

I don't think anyone in their right mind will turn down your invite! :evil:

shaktiboi
18-04-2006, 14:47
Their armor is the exact same as the ranger, without the elemental resistance, so you'll stand up longer against mobs than lets say an ele getting ganked. If you're worried about armor then pick ranger as your secondary and grab both LR and WD.

...

You don't believe they'll fit in because nobody has had an extensive test and trying to fit them in. I think they'll fit their part they were ment to be play. Just like an Ele is the king of spell casting damage, sins will be king of the melee aspect of dmg dealing.

I'd like to point out that Assassins have Shadow Refuge, and most of them will be using it. Shadow Refuge can be recast every 8 seconds for 5 energy (and takes only 1 second to cast, unlike Troll Unguent, which takes 3 seconds to cast). You get the equivalent of 110 Armor against ALL damage (elemental and spell too) for 4 of those 8 seconds, and at typical values in Shadow Arts, you'll get 84 to 100 HP back at the end of the 8 seconds. That's equivalent 5 to 6.5 pips of energy regen, full time.

So my point is that with one pretty much mandatory skill that every Assassin will have in their skill bar, Assassins effectively have better armor than Rangers, and even better than Warriors when you consider the effective elemental and spell resistance. That same skill is also like a very fast-casting Troll Unguent.

I tanked all through FPE PvE with my Assassin. I was the first into every new group of mobs. I was soaking up their alpha strike just fine. I rarely died, even when our healer (and protector) went down.

Nanashi
18-04-2006, 15:20
If you are going to make the assumption that Warriors cant deal damage, then I can perfectly understand your disagreement. Allow me to say, however, that this assumption is not correct.

I did mention IWAY, which I referred to warriors being a melee-ish form of spikeing. I know warriors can deal damage quite perfectly but I believe the sins have the warriors outclassed in melee dmg with the correct line of attacks... which is what they were designed for. If each attack lands you can pretty much take out a warrior no problem, did it all the time during the PVP weekend and the FPE.

But I digress, we're talking about PVE content not PVP. My opinion is they'll be used frequently but no more than 2 at most. During missions of 8 you usually have a double of atleast one class in your group. One could easily kick the double or not even consider inviteing and just simply pick up a sin. I think people under estimate the sins do to their form of melee spikeing. I don't blame yall. It's much easier to strike from a distance with attacks that have little to no error, spells will always land and physicall attacks can be exploited. But when the sin is not being exploited then they shine the brittest in forms of dmg... for melee anyways.

Nekretaal
18-04-2006, 15:58
I tanked all through FPE PvE with my Assassin. I was the first into every new group of mobs. I was soaking up their alpha strike just fine. I rarely died, even when our healer (and protector) went down.

I assume that everything you say is true, but all anybody remembers from the FPE is hordes of dead assasins who tried to tank and got easily killed. With these memories in mind, most parties are not going to let assasins get into their groups. If what you say is true, and assasins can tank reasonably well, it will still take some time before the average player realizes this and lets you into their parties.

DEATHSHEAD
18-04-2006, 20:30
I have been reading through this information and in some ways I agree- The Assasin can make interesting combos to achieve AoE stabillity as MaximumSquid noted Twisting Fangs+Epidemic= Interesting degen build with AoE capaballities(I'm too stupid for such hard words so heres the easy words pure pwnage :grin: ) On the other hand through my Guild Wars playing expirience I have seen that people are really conservative. To say the truth some people forgot it's just a game. Anyway, the PvE assasin can have problems because people rarely wan't something exotic with a interesting concept. They wan't their echo nuker/SS/etc. With good will from all GW players, we can have PvE assasins being a common thing. Hopefully...

P.S. Thank you, for your opinions

Nanashi
19-04-2006, 04:44
They wan't their echo nuker/SS/etc.
P.S. Thank you, for your opinions

That's the problem I see. People are spoiled by the spike teams consisting of the eles and rangers that they can't find fun any other way. That's just my opinion. I got annoyed, during HoH, when everytime we invite one ele he starts demanding for us to kick the players who were there first so we could form a spike team, when it was stated as he joined that we were focusing on a balanced group.

I think they'll be like a second warrior in a sense. The warrior of the team will play stances and the sin will play offensive like how they were ment to be. If people truely are worried about low defenses then go as a warrior/ranger secondary and get some stances. Otherwise the defense sins get isn't to bad either.

You know, I think it's kind of funny how people say there is no place for sins when their stats are almost identicle to a ranger. Yes, in some cases they could be modded as better with a few skills. Otherwise, I saw them as being a meleeing ranger when I first got to test them.

Sir Pwn Your Mother
19-04-2006, 08:43
With the large number of assassins in Factions, I think the role of assassins will be to act as party leader... to a party consisting of himself and henchmen. :p

Sad but true. :p
QFT
Assassins are like..weak warriors.

Cirdan Ecthelion
19-04-2006, 13:53
Think of it this way. Assassins are meant to be like real Assassins, get in quick, make the kill, and get out as fast as possible. Sure, not every group will want a 3 Assassin / 3 Rit / 2 core profession team, but Assassins have their purpose, and that purpose is to, well, assassinate stuff. Plus everybody likes '00b3r 1337 n1nj4s!", don't they? :laughing:

EDIT: spelled 1337 wrong :embarassed:

DEATHSHEAD
19-04-2006, 15:10
Assassins are like..weak warriors.

Now I can't agree with this one because the assasin and warrior concept are totally different. You have to agree that charging into a mindless attack and swirling an axe at your opponent has nothing to do with shadow-stepping near your foe, backstabbing him, turn him to cannon fodder and then see the nearest foe to repeat the procedure.

Longasc
19-04-2006, 16:43
So you Death Charge to your foe, attack him, assume he will die from this attack and then you go for the next?

Indeed, a very different concept. :laughing:

Maybe you should find a better example. :smiley:

teh Monkeys
19-04-2006, 16:58
Assassins are going to be the next mesmer class in PvE. Only less useful.

shaktiboi
19-04-2006, 17:52
QFT
Assassins are like..weak warriors.

I love it when trolls post unsubstantiated blanket claims like this. How about some facts to back up this sentiment of yours? For every person who thinks Assassins are "weak warriors", I invite you to read my Dagger FAQ and I invite you to read pages 2 and 3 of this post, where I use facts to hammer down some of the typical unsupported blanket claims I hear about warriors.

http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=394523&page=2

scorche
19-04-2006, 18:19
QFT
Assassins are like..weak warriors.
I can hardly believe you even said that. Assassin's are totally different from warriors. Warriors are meant for fighting, assassin's are meant for killing. Alot of people don't realise this and will end up playing a sin like a war and getting pwnt so they will think sins suck. Therefore, i see most sins playing with hench and guildees/friends instead of PUG's.

Doyle
19-04-2006, 18:56
I can hardly believe you even said that. Assassin's are totally different from warriors. Warriors are meant for fighting, assassin's are meant for killing. Alot of people don't realise this and will end up playing a sin like a war and getting pwnt so they will think sins suck. Therefore, i see most sins playing with hench and guildees/friends instead of PUG's.

Agreed. In the FPE, although I spent most of my time on a rit, near the end I took an Assassin out for a test drive, mostly with henchies. The obvious alpha strike, Death's Charge, turned out to be quite dangerous to use. Instead, I found that calling a target, giving Devona a head start, and then joining her in the fray once she had aggro was quite effective. By the time the monster had switched to the softer target, it was often too late. And then Death's Charge became quite effective in switching to the next one. However, knowing when to beat a hasty retreat was critical (my mesmer training in that area came in handy :rolleyes:).

Shadowleaf
19-04-2006, 22:15
I have not read this entire topic yet, but trust me, and Assassin can tank well enough for most areas... Actually, an Assassin's role is rarely performed by an IW mesmer in PvE. That's what I do. I take IW to FoW very often and it works wonders against the monks and mesmers. While the party does mass damage I take out the key targets.

That said, I know how it is to go melee with low armor. First of all, armor does not matter nearly as much as evasion and blocking. We all know that stance tanks are far, far better than mending + adrenaline attacks tanks, right? Well I've got Distortion, which is almost enough for me to tank. An Assassin has 10 more base armor than me, Shadow Refuge and Critical Defenses, which will stack with any stance you bring with your secondary proffession.

Also, the Assassin's armor isn't just like Ranger armor... It's 70 base and you can have +15 armor while attacking if you use the right set. That means that if you are doing your job you will have 85 armor.

So how can that not tank? You can have constant non-stance evasion, damage reduction with some bonus healing and 85 armor and anything that your secondary does for you on top of all that.

Oh, I should also mention Way of Perfection... with the proper build this will be better than Vigorous Spirit.

EDIT: Ok now I read all the posts. I have one more thing to say... Do not worry about being able to get in a party. My first character was a Mesmer. I beat Hell's Precipice with him before I ascended any other characters. I never went with all henchmen on any mission with him.

ShadowBorn
22-04-2006, 17:20
I haven't read all of this, but I think sins will have their use in pve. First of all, they will make great 'solo' team members, taking out that annoying monk, or taking out that mesmer who's disrupting your team. Sure, the phase in, kill, phase out thing will be frowned upon by a few, but I've seen many a pug give up because they can't take out that stupid healer spamming Mark of Protection. The assassin, I think, is made to differ from the called target and 'assassinate' the bosses or irritating enemies who generally would be left til last, and give the team hassle.

DEATHSHEAD
22-04-2006, 18:10
Some people just don't understand the art of shadows and sharp blades. Weak warriors=assasins? L O L! I cannot comment such stupid replies....

Shadowleaf
22-04-2006, 18:30
I haven't read all of this, but I think sins will have their use in pve. First of all, they will make great 'solo' team members, taking out that annoying monk, or taking out that mesmer who's disrupting your team. Sure, the phase in, kill, phase out thing will be frowned upon by a few, but I've seen many a pug give up because they can't take out that stupid healer spamming Mark of Protection. The assassin, I think, is made to differ from the called target and 'assassinate' the bosses or irritating enemies who generally would be left til last, and give the team hassle.

That's definetly what a standard DPS Assassin will be good for. Heck, that's what I do with my IW mesmer and it's very effective.

Assassins can be built for other uses of course... They have a bunch of new hexes for one thing...

They also have some pretty sweet shutdown skills.

Also, their 4 energy regen gives them a lot of potential.

Unfortunately, we can't expect most Assassins to do anything aside from a DPS and/or condition dagger build.

ehanks
22-04-2006, 20:41
An assassin may be able to tank...but they won't be able to do it as consistantly as a warrior. Shadow Refuge is an awesome skill...but it's 5 energy cost means it can easily be put on a W/A. Now that will be some fun tanking :)

I think some people have said it well. An assassin's role will be as a "floater". Taking out key targets while the tank tries to manage most of the aggro. They can do wonderful damage, and have some defensive skills that will help them survive as long as they know when to retreat. I can't imagine assassins finding a place in the uber farming teams. But I can imagine taking 1 along to the FoW as a monk killer who shadow steps in after the tank grabs aggro.

Sir Pwn Your Mother
24-04-2006, 01:32
I can hardly believe you even said that. Assassin's are totally different from warriors. Warriors are meant for fighting, assassin's are meant for killing. Alot of people don't realise this and will end up playing a sin like a war and getting pwnt so they will think sins suck. Therefore, i see most sins playing with hench and guildees/friends instead of PUG's.


I love it when trolls post unsubstantiated blanket claims like this. How about some facts to back up this sentiment of yours? For every person who thinks Assassins are "weak warriors", I invite you to read my Dagger FAQ and I invite you to read pages 2 and 3 of this post, where I use facts to hammer down some of the typical unsupported blanket claims I hear about warriors.

Some people are so easy..

And as for trolling... new members gotta start posting stuff somewhere. ;)

Also, guess what this topic isn't about? Thats right.. warriors..

Nhemin Drahken
24-04-2006, 03:25
I think what a lot of people aren't seeing is the assassin in GW Factions is based off of a ninja. A ninja relies on stealth, speed, cunning, will power and invisibility. Though you cannot go invisible in this game yet, weaving in and out of combat and sneaking through/around other players is as close as you're going to get. So far, I have seen too many people using the assassin as a damage dealing tank. The assassin is NOT your "one hit drop-em wonder". The assassin has a payload of evasion, blinking, and tactical skills at their disposal. So...it's only natural that people should use them.

Overall, the assassin is not meant to stand in combat for long; but rather to jump in and out, targeting the weaker opponents and hindering the stronger ones. Do not expect to take down a warrior in a dual using brute force, simply because you won't. Instead, wear the warrior down from a distance with hexes/ranged attacks, move in and try and slow him down more with cripple attacks and such. Personally my favourite was using an A/N mix. Use an assassin attack spell to get his/her attention, lay down faint heartedness move in, attack, run away, maybe throw down rigor mortis or something (target foe can't block evade), move in damage some more and just keep working at them. Remember, think "sneaky" :smiley:

MaximumSquid
24-04-2006, 07:15
Overall, the assassin is not meant to stand in combat for long; but rather to jump in and out, targeting the weaker opponents and hindering the stronger ones. It's hard to pass up some of the pressure builds i've seen around the forums, but I do agree that this is probably what the assassin was originally intended and designed for.

It will be interesting to see what the assassin eventually mellows out into.


Remember, think "sneaky" that . . . and think "counter attack"

reciprocal
24-04-2006, 09:16
An assassin may be able to tank...but they won't be able to do it as consistantly as a warrior. Shadow Refuge is an awesome skill...but it's 5 energy cost means it can easily be put on a W/A. Now that will be some fun tanking :)

I think some people have said it well. An assassin's role will be as a "floater". Taking out key targets while the tank tries to manage most of the aggro. They can do wonderful damage, and have some defensive skills that will help them survive as long as they know when to retreat. I can't imagine assassins finding a place in the uber farming teams. But I can imagine taking 1 along to the FoW as a monk killer who shadow steps in after the tank grabs aggro.

You raise a good point, which is what does a A/W have that makes it better than a W/A? Mostly it's a question of giving up hefty armour for more energy and recharge. W/As can teleport and use shadow refuge just as effectively if not more.

But we all know that virtually any class can become a tanker for PvE, using the right skills and support. That's not the point. The question is: when you see an Assasin and a Warrior on the other team, who do you target first? IMHO, I'd go for the assasin in a second. It just seems the logical conclusion seeing as they are far more squishable.

Of course when under heavy fire the assasin will probably resort to teleporting. If he teleports back to his team then that means he has to run forward to engage again. If he teleports to another target, it may land him way behind enemy lines. A warrior without teleport / speed enhancers /trip-ups would be pretty inconvenienced, but i don't see that many of them around anyway. Besides, if the assasin is behind enemy lines, possibly in the range of the majority of the opposing team, one has to ask: can one (or more) assasin(s) kill a target faster than the time the oppposing team will take to kill that assasin (or other soft target)?

DEATHSHEAD
25-04-2006, 15:31
Curses- 12
Blood Magic- 10
Dagger Mastery- 12(+4)

Spiteful Spirit (E)
Blood Ritual
Mark of Subversion
Barbs
Black Mantis Thrust
Jungle Strike
Death Blossom
Ressurection Signet

My idea of a great build, lol...

Viri
25-04-2006, 17:46
All that arguing about assasins being weak and more than half of the ppl will make an assasin first :) The only problem with pve assasins is that there will be s#@$load of them in the begining.

DEATHSHEAD
25-04-2006, 19:17
All that arguing about assasins being weak and more than half of the ppl will make an assasin first :)

The wonder of human nature I must say...

Xunlai Agent
25-04-2006, 19:29
Some people just don't understand the art of shadows and sharp blades. Weak warriors=assasins? L O L! I cannot comment such stupid replies....
Frankly there are few people here who know what they are talking about on the strategy forums (especially PvP is lacking in many respects). There are thousands of comments on how almost every single class sucks in some way or another. I especially love how people continue to insist that warriors are worse than other classes in PvP and that statement was also being thrown around before the HoD Helm's removal, the IWAY cutdown and the gale nerf. Just ignore the ignorance and search for the constructive insightful posts, although you may search a long long time...

MaximumSquid
25-04-2006, 20:10
The wonder of human nature I must say... I think it's just human nature to want to Shank someone once in a while.

There's just a crowd of people that will go ape if they are given the chance to be a rogue, assassin, ninja, etc.

I'm sure people would jump on the chance to be a raider, viking, or pirate class too.

AereozZ
25-04-2006, 22:13
All that arguing about assasins being weak and more than half of the ppl will make an assasin first :) The only problem with pve assasins is that there will be s#@$load of them in the begining.

I Agree with you Viri. I'm sure there will be lots of groups inviting like 1 assasin just because there are plenty of them around.

But they will probably get invited last because alot of partyformers will think "There will always be an assasin... I'm going to worry about getting the key players together first."

And when a few assasins finally get a party... there's still going to be the massive amount of assasins that are also standing in mission camps shouting for a party.


Getting a party as an assasin is just going to be tedious and frustrating in the beginning because they're just one of many. Ofcourse there will be good builds available for assasins... most people just didn't think of the non-obvious builds yet. I'm sure assasins will find their place in the game. But as with all new things... people just need to get used to them and find their purposes :cool:.

Final Noob
26-04-2006, 02:32
People in fpe the assassins didnt even have all their skills yet....you are a fool to jugde a class's strength when you havent even seen how alot of the build possibilities will even work...just like how no one thought a ranger or monk would be able to tank shiet in the begining untill all the rangers got whirling defense etc and monks got all the protection spells

And high armor doesnt always = tank, you have to remember damage spells are just as common in pve as physical attackers, id rather have someone with shadow refuge and medium armor than someone with healing signet and high armor when fighting in a zone with a caster mix