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View Full Version : There is a chance for double strikes without dagger mastery!



Shadowleaf
21-04-2006, 19:00
Well, I am not 100% positive on this, but I was just trying to figure out if daggers attack at the same speed as swords using the pre-order daggers on my IW mesmer. Well, It turns out that sometimes I get a double attack! I don't have a stop-watch so I can't tell for sure about the attack speed, but it does feel faster... Anyway, I definetly get double attacks every 10 or so attacks it seems.

I notice that the daggers have Dagger Mastery +1 (20% chance while using skills) but this should not fire while attacking, should it? Even if it did, according to the statistics of the whole thing, I should never get a double attack... Let's see...

20% chance to have a 2% chance for a double attack. Would that work out like... 2 * 0.2 = 0.4% chance to get a double attack?

This is absurd, that's my conclusion. :shocked:

Bobross
22-04-2006, 00:40
Well, I am not 100% positive on this, but I was just trying to figure out if daggers attack at the same speed as swords using the pre-order daggers on my IW mesmer. Well, It turns out that sometimes I get a double attack! I don't have a stop-watch so I can't tell for sure about the attack speed, but it does feel faster... Anyway, I definetly get double attacks every 10 or so attacks it seems.

I notice that the daggers have Dagger Mastery +1 (20% chance while using skills) but this should not fire while attacking, should it? Even if it did, according to the statistics of the whole thing, I should never get a double attack... Let's see...

20% chance to have a 2% chance for a double attack. Would that work out like... 2 * 0.2 = 0.4% chance to get a double attack?

This is absurd, that's my conclusion. :shocked:

Cool, so might that mean that all the previous calculations based on double attack chance are wrong? If there is a base chance, and if this is 10% (or slightly better, since you're saying once every 10 seconds or so and you attack at 1 hit/1.33 secs. ) Could mean that daggers are even better than we thought! Awesome!

Also, not sure if you're getting the whole attack speed thing. They still(supposedly) attack at the same speed...its just with those extra hits thrown in there from double strikes, it's as if you were attacking faster. So you could imagine it like this: your total number of attacks in a minute will be higher, therefore your average attacks per second will be higher, although those attacks will still come at the same 1.33 second interval, just that sometimes they'll come in twos.

Shadowleaf
22-04-2006, 02:46
I understand that for DPS calculation, we consider the effective attack speed as faster due to dual attacks, but it seemed faster when I used my daggers on my IW Mesmer...

So that's what I was trying to test. But then I noticed getting a few double attacks and now I can't be sure on the base attack speed...

By the way, I kept doing it and it's very inconsistant... I can't be sure if it's as much as 10%. Sometimes I will go quite a while without the dual attack, but sometimes I will get 2 in a row.

shaktiboi
22-04-2006, 08:18
At a guess, I think the preorder dagger's inherent chance to give you +1 in Dagger Mastery is kicking in and causing the occasional double-strike. I don't think we can test whether there really is a baseline chance to double-strike even at 0 ranks in dagger mastery until the 27th and folks can get their hands on starter daggers without any special attributes.

Shadowleaf
22-04-2006, 12:10
At a guess, I think the preorder dagger's inherent chance to give you +1 in Dagger Mastery is kicking in and causing the occasional double-strike. I don't think we can test whether there really is a baseline chance to double-strike even at 0 ranks in dagger mastery until the 27th and folks can get their hands on starter daggers without any special attributes.

Technically, it is possible that it is only the +1 from my daggers... But the statistics are all wrong. I mean, this is assuming that the bonus can activate when attacking and not using any skills. I suppose while enchanted with IW, each attack counts as a skill use of IW, perhaps.

So assuming that it does have a 20% chance to give me +1 to DM when I attack, the chances are too low. Each rank of DM increases the chance for a dual attack by 2%.

In otherwords, best case scenario, I have a 20% chance to have a 2% chance for a dual attack.

I believe the math works out like this:

0.2 * 2% = 0.4%

That means that the dagger's bonus provides such a small bonus to the chance of a dual attack, that I should never see it happen... It should be happening only 1 out of every 250 attacks.

After many, many kills of the test dummies I think I can safely conclude that this is not the case. I get a dual attack far more often than that.


Even so, I can agree that it's not worth testing with these daggers, since the +1 may screw it up, but I think we can assume that there is a decent baseline for dagger dual attacks and it should be tested heavily as soon as normal daggers are availible.

Caelus The Fallen
22-04-2006, 15:33
I've performed a similar test with my Me/W and had a double strike twice in a string of 100 attacks. The dagger grip only triggers while using skills, which I didnt, so its not that. I suspect that they have a base 2% chance with increments of 2% per level.

Shadowleaf
22-04-2006, 18:23
Yeah, it could have been 2%. It's hard to tell. When I tested it, it seemed higher, but highly inconsistant.

By the way, does the base speed seem higher to you too?

shaktiboi
22-04-2006, 23:39
Yeah, it could have been 2%. It's hard to tell. When I tested it, it seemed higher, but highly inconsistant.

By the way, does the base speed seem higher to you too?

I've tested the base speed on the preorder daggers. They're definitely 1.33 seconds per swing, just like swords and axes.

Caelus The Fallen
23-04-2006, 04:21
Agreed, 45 attacks took 60 seconds, same rate as a sword or an axe.