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Epicanthics
25-05-2006, 20:41
I was wondering what people's thoughts are on the new dragon slash+silverwing+sun and moon combo in terms of damage dealing ability, especially vs. the old evis+executioner combo. I've used the latter plenty in Prophesies, and from what I've experienced so far, evis combo has much better initial spike with the deep wound, but a good deal of downtime in between spikes even with an attack speed boost. Dragon slash with for great justice, on the other hand, gives some very nice sustained damage, albeit without the deep wound and takes up more slots.

Has there been any verdict on which of these is better for the damage-minded warrior?

Symbolic Self
25-05-2006, 21:32
They are fundamentally different. Dragon slash is dps, evisc is spike. Which one is "better" depends on your team composition, the opposition, and the gametype (PvE, 4vs4, GvG, HA, Alliance Battles)

against
26-05-2006, 01:47
Evis + Exec is and will always be king. Dragon Slash is pretty terrible. It's certainly no Final Thrust.

Sadow
26-05-2006, 02:11
Evis + Exec is and will always be king. Dragon Slash is pretty terrible. It's certainly no Final Thrust.

Dragon Slash is meant more for a "pressure" build than as a spike like Eviscerate. I think the reason we have seen no builds for it so far is that people are not encouraged to experiment when Eviscerate just works so well.

Chthon
26-05-2006, 03:05
I don't really think dragon slash will ever make major inroads into PvP play. Charging 10 adrenaline against foes who are actually aware that's what you're trying to do is not particularly easy. Add to that the chance of being blocked or evaded...

PvE, however is an entirely different story. I've never seen anything create such a powerful PvE killing machine as dragon slash+silverwing+sun and moon+for great justice.

Symbolic Self
26-05-2006, 03:39
I don't really think dragon slash will ever make major inroads into PvP play. Charging 10 adrenaline against foes who are actually aware that's what you're trying to do is not particularly easy. Add to that the chance of being blocked or evaded...

This is a flawed argument. You only need to charge 10 adren at the beginning of a battle, after that it's 5 adren effective. As for block/evade, there's no reason to waste your dragon slash on a protected target. It's more flexible than a final thrust after all (which is also 10 adren).

The problem with dragon slash in PvP isn't the adrenaline cost, or block/evade, but its poor synergy with final thrust. However if you're going for mostly pressure instead of spike this may be an acceptable tradeoff.

AMorganstern
26-05-2006, 04:29
This is a flawed argument. You only need to charge 10 adren at the beginning of a battle, after that it's 5 adren effective. As for block/evade, there's no reason to waste your dragon slash on a protected target. It's more flexible than a final thrust after all (which is also 10 adren).
Take it one step further: Eviscerate costs 8 Adrenaline ALL the time, and doesn't pay for itself. If anything, I think its harder to charge that up than Dragon Slash.

I use Dragon Slash constantly in PvP, the DPS can be obscenely overwhelming, especially when the poor monk you're bearing down on is used to ignoring/running from warriors while they heal. Once you get the adrenaline flowing, backed up by Tiger Stance and "For Great Justice!," you can alternate Dragon Slash and Sun & Moon literally every other attack. Against a normal caster, those are hits for 70-90 and (a total of) 30-50 one right after the other.

Symbolic Self
26-05-2006, 05:02
I use Dragon Slash constantly in PvP, the DPS can be obscenely overwhelming, especially when the poor monk you're bearing down on is used to ignoring/running from warriors while they heal. Once you get the adrenaline flowing, backed up by Tiger Stance and "For Great Justice!," you can alternate Dragon Slash and Sun & Moon literally every other attack. Against a normal caster, those are hits for 70-90 and (a total of) 30-50 one right after the other.


Yes I've been doing this for a while now (except I think frenzy is just much better than tiger stance). I don't like having to give up deep wound, but I find that this is a fair tradeoff in the arenas and ABs where spike isn't as important.

Chthon
26-05-2006, 05:13
This is a flawed argument. You only need to charge 10 adren at the beginning of a battle, after that it's 5 adren effective. As for block/evade, there's no reason to waste your dragon slash on a protected target. It's more flexible than a final thrust after all (which is also 10 adren).

The problem with dragon slash in PvP isn't the adrenaline cost, or block/evade, but its poor synergy with final thrust. However if you're going for mostly pressure instead of spike this may be an acceptable tradeoff.

I was considering only the initial 10 cost, and I was NOT comparing it to final thrust. I agree that dragon slash > final thrust, but the comparison requested is as against eviserate, not final thrust.

As compared to eviserate, dragon slash
1) does less damage outright (no deep wound)
2) takes longer to charge initially
3) leaves you in a worse spot if you fail to hit

Don't get me wrong -- I love the skill. I just think people are too in love with the deep wound on eviserate to change to a skill that costs 10 the first time and 10 again if you ever miss.

MaximumSquid
26-05-2006, 05:30
Your're comparing apples to oranges here.

I mean Dragon slash is the king of PvE pressure damage. You can use it in PvP, but an elaborate array of counters is waiting you.

Evicerate is free deep wounds + damage. Nothing else in the game did this sort of thing in Prophecies and was dubbed the king of single skill damage.

Now you have stuff like Twisting Fangs and the adrenaline spike just isn't what it used to be.

Since warrior's are getting more of a pressure feel I'd focus on that aspect of gameplay instead and load up an elite that more geared towards it.

Just as a side note (my attempt at an apples to apples view of evic):
Isn't crushing blow a decent replacement for evis. . ?

Symbolic Self
26-05-2006, 05:36
As compared to eviserate, dragon slash
1) does less damage outright (no deep wound)
2) takes longer to charge initially
3) leaves you in a worse spot if you fail to hit

Ok, that's fair enough. But then again I think the whole comparison is a bad one. Eviscerate is a spike skill. Dragon slash is a dps skill. There's absolutely no question that evisc spikes harder. Similarly there's no question that dragon slash totally outclasses evisc when it comes to dps. The question of which is better depends very much on what you're looking for.

In high level GvG where kills come mainly through spiking I don't see dragon slash making inroads (though perhaps it'll find its place in heavy pressure build) when compared to the classic sever/gash/final sword war or evisc/exe axe guy. On the other hand high level GvG is not the sum total of PvP, and the ability to chain together a series of very heavy hits quickly can be valuable.

In PvE, of course, it's devasting, but no one has contested that so far.



I mean Dragon slash is the king of PvE pressure damage. You can use it in PvP, but an elaborate array of counters is waiting you

Every single one of those counters applies to eviscerate, and pretty much any other attack skill you can name.