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View Full Version : Does anyone know about the effects of evade?



Mayce of Singlestar
17-06-2006, 05:22
Like can I "evade" a lightining strike? Or can I "evade" a touch attack, common sense would dictate yes but I've been disappointed before so can anyone give me an answer?

cranialexodus
17-06-2006, 06:21
What attacks you can evade depends what skill you're using. Nothing makes skills such as fireball and lightning orb miss, except for dodging them manually. The only way to avoid being touched is keeping out of range.

You can evade projectile attacks from wands/staffs and bows as well as melee attacks from swords, axes, daggers and hammers. That includes skills which are 'attack skills'.

Patccmoi
17-06-2006, 06:38
What attacks you can evade depends what skill you're using. Nothing makes skills such as fireball and lightning orb miss, except for dodging them manually. The only way to avoid being touched is keeping out of range.

You can evade projectile attacks from wands/staffs and bows as well as melee attacks from swords, axes, daggers and hammers. That includes skills which are 'attack skills'.

Actually, Swirling Aura can make LOrbs and Fireball misses afaik. It's just never used though because of 60 sec recharge!

But 'evade' is for attack (melee/bow/wand/staff) and attack skills using these weapons. That's it. Nothing else can be evaded.

cranialexodus
17-06-2006, 08:09
Actually, Swirling Aura can make LOrbs and Fireball misses afaik. It's just never used though because of 60 sec recharge!

But 'evade' is for attack (melee/bow/wand/staff) and attack skills using these weapons. That's it. Nothing else can be evaded.

I'm pretty sure it never could and that's just a bad skill description - where the fire from a fire wands isclassified as a 'magical projectile'.

The description for swirling aura currently reads:
enchantment spell. for X seconds, swirling aura has a 50% chance to "block" arrows. (attrib: water magic)

so even if it used to be able to block fireball, I very much doubt it can now.

Mayce of Singlestar
17-06-2006, 11:50
Now does anyone else see a problem with this? If I can't "evade" a touch attack (something you thin assassins would do rather well) then why the hell doesn't it just say "block?" I'm just suggesting this would really help our class in terms of survival, you know if I had a chance to "evade" that lightining strike that cuts my health in half. I just find it really distressing that the only way for me to stay out of danger from a caster is to dance around outside his/her damn bubble.

VILenin
17-06-2006, 15:25
Just kill the caster, lol. That's what I would do...

But seriously, elementalists are underrepresented enough without nerfing their guaranteed hits as well. As far as touch rangers go, assassins have numerous means of simply evading them and killing them when convenient. Siphon Speed, anyone?

cranialexodus
17-06-2006, 18:03
Just kill the caster, lol. That's what I would do...

But seriously, elementalists are underrepresented enough without nerfing their guaranteed hits as well. As far as touch rangers go, assassins have numerous means of simply evading them and killing them when convenient. Siphon Speed, anyone?


well actually dodge>>>siphon speed. I mean cast siphon speed on a w with sprint and they run faster. And dodge is 33%, not 25%, so GL.

edit: crippling dagger would be fine, as long as they're not running at you as you cast.

Mayce of Singlestar
17-06-2006, 19:08
Okay fine I get that elementalist have a hard enough time as it is, but seriously I think allowing evade to be used as a defensive technique against touch attacks would greatly enhance our survival against many things. Think about this for a minute, blocking still means he's touching you but evadeing means you actually got out of the way in time so he touches nothing. Is this a big change I don't think so, is this overpowering again I don't think so, but if I'm wrong in any way please tell me and explain.

arredondo
17-06-2006, 20:34
Add Pet Attack skills (and bites), Bone Fiend spittle and Spirit projectiles to Pat's list of things that you can evade.



edit: crippling dagger would be fine, as long as they're not running at you as you cast.

Crippling Dagger's snare won't work UNLESS they are running, lol.

VILenin
17-06-2006, 23:48
well actually dodge>>>siphon speed. I mean cast siphon speed on a w with sprint and they run faster. And dodge is 33%, not 25%, so GL.

edit: crippling dagger would be fine, as long as they're not running at you as you cast.
Nah, Siphon makes you move faster. His speed: +25% -20% = +5%. Your speed: 20%. You still move 15% faster than the runner.

Siphon Speed allows you to catch every running skill in the game except Dash.

Patccmoi
18-06-2006, 01:44
Nah, Siphon makes you move faster. His speed: +25% -20% = +5%. Your speed: 20%. You still move 15% faster than the runner.

Siphon Speed allows you to catch every running skill in the game except Dash.

Actually, that's what the skill says, but i think there was some testing showing that your target ISN'T snared, only you run faster. And i'm pretty sure it's true from having played a lot with it. It still lets you catch most people and since assassin has no real running skill (you don't always want the teleport of Shadow of Haste, and Dash while very useful in some situations has an horrible duration and longer cooldown making it so-so as an actual speed buff you want maintained) it's pretty useful. And it's a good cover hex.

And Mayce, all these skills are balanced considering that you can't evade them. Yes, it would make assassin able to survive more, ofc, but if you're actually in melee range (for touch skills to work), well that's YOUR ground. Kill the guy before he kills you, or run if you can't.

Touch skills are meant to be unavoidable. There is absolutely no direct defense against them, and that's their strength, but they are also balanced as such. And don't forget that they require you to be MELEE, so there is ways to avoid that from happening (a Crippling Dagger or Siphon Speed on the guy trying to touch you can go a long way...)

The block/evade mechanics is working very well since day 1 of GW. Not only would it be stupid to change it at this point, it also has absolutely no chance to ever happen because it would mean rebalancing tons of skills that are working fine. An elementalist has spells that can't be blocked/evaded for a reason, they cost energy, have often lengthy cast times (so you can't block them, but you can INTERRUPT them), and often medium-long cooldown. They can't maintain the same DPS as a warrior, assassin, or even ranger that is spec for damage, and nearly all of their damage is reduced by armor (while warriors, sins and ranger have a good part of their damage ignoring armor). But their strength is that this damage has much fewer counters easily available like a Ward vs Melee, Aegis, tons of stances, etc, so making it evadable would just destroy elementalists. Just like making Touch skill evadable would make them pretty bad. It would also break the balance between block/evade, making Distortion MUCH MUCH better than Whirling Defense, and Ward vs Melee insanely powerful.

So no, there is no need -at all- to change basic game mechanics that are and always were working. There IS ways to survive as assassin. And no Lightning Strike cuts your health in half... it does like 10-15% of your max health at level 16 Air... Lightning Orb does around 25%, but that's actually EASILY avoidable unless you're in melee range of the caster. At which point either you kill it, or if you can't you get the hell away from there.

Mayce of Singlestar
18-06-2006, 02:03
Okay that was really well put and I understand that nothing will ever happen to change it (as much as I'd like it to), but can anyone explain to me why then evade was ever added to the game? I mean it has no advantages over block it has the same disadvantages as block so why the hell is it there?

cranialexodus
18-06-2006, 06:24
Crippling Dagger's snare won't work UNLESS they are running, lol.

I meant running towards you specifically, as they would they generally be able to touch the condition across in time due to the reduced range.

fallot
18-06-2006, 06:49
I mean it has no advantages over block it has the same disadvantages as block so why the hell is it there?

Some skills interact with "block" and "evade" differently. For example:



Irresistible Blow

If this attack hits you strike for +1...24 damage. If Irresistible Blow is "blocked", your target is knocked down and takes 1...24 damage. Irresistble Blow cannot be "evaded".

It just increases options, gives a little depth to the game.

Mayce of Singlestar
18-06-2006, 06:57
OK so basically IR blow there hits no matter what, yah I can totally see why they put in evade and block now. So I can be screwed with something else right, cause that seems to be a real trend.

WingspanTT
18-06-2006, 15:15
Outside of the negativity of the post, the reason you cannot dodge lightning is the same reason that you cannot dodge bullets IRL. Of course, lightning moves a LITTLE faster than a bullet.

If you want to feel safe around mages, be a Ranger or Mesmer and interrupt the hell out of them. Or bring Spell Breaker. Or hide behind a wall if they're using projectiles.

Mayce of Singlestar
18-06-2006, 22:11
What negetivity, I just find it stupid that they even added in evade when it doesn't really do anything better than block. This is a game by the way I'm not asking for realism here just some common sense.

VILenin
18-06-2006, 22:31
Look at the ranger skills. Specifically, Glass Arrows and Splinter Shot.

Try to contribute something meaningful next time.

Mayce of Singlestar
18-06-2006, 22:47
I'm at a loss for how "meaningful" that last post was, and clear too!! /sarcasm end

Anyone care to explain to me what the hell he meant by that?

Shrimp
19-06-2006, 07:21
I'm at a loss for how "meaningful" that last post was, and clear too!! /sarcasm end

Anyone care to explain to me what the hell he meant by that?

Glass Arrows and Splintershot are ranger skills that gain new porperties if they are blocked (the former causes bleeding and the latter causes aoe damage around the target). If they are evaded they gain nothing (and lose their damage entirely). In this case evade > block. What he was getting at is that just because you aren't seeing the answer to your own question doesn't mean it's not slapping you in the face.

Thre are a good number of attack skills that are actually better when they get blocked, which quite naturally means that evading it would have been better. Try looking around for them before you condemn evade as useless.

Foradasthar
19-06-2006, 08:16
Perhaps someone already said it, but usually every word and specific type of wording means something in a skill descrption.

A chance to evade/block *attacks* means just that, it counts in attacks and attack skills (which includes arrows, wands/staffs and melee). It does NOT count in spells, projectile or otherwise, as they are not attacks. LOrb, Stoning etc pass by with a 100% chance to hit as long as you don't sidestep them.

Then there are evade/block abilities that specifically mention *projectiles*, for example. So every projectile, be that an attack or a spell type, counts in and can be evaded / blocked. But of course, regular spells or regular attacks would pass right through. Always read the skill descriptions with care.

It's the same as with spells such as Shadow Form. It says all attacks against it will miss, so an ability that passes evade / block cannot hit, because it's not a question of blocking or evading, but missing. It says all spells against it will fail, but if you cast a spell NOT directed against the target, but against a target next to the target or for example an AoE centered around yourself while you are standing next to them, they will take the damage from it regardless. And touch skills aren't spells, or attacks, same as traps. So they will still pass through this seemingly perfect protection. Or Mist Form from elementalist, attacks will cause no damage. Spells will cause damage, and attacks will still hit meaning they load adrenaline and can cause bleeding, deep wound etc normally.

Bobross
19-06-2006, 18:14
I agree. Assassins should be invulnerable against all attacks at all times. That would make the game more balanced...because no one could ever kill assassins. Everyone would play assassins, and no one would ever die...and everyone would love this game. Oh wait...no.

BrotherGrimm
19-06-2006, 20:32
OK so basically IR blow there hits no matter what, yah I can totally see why they put in evade and block now. So I can be screwed with something else right, cause that seems to be a real trend.

Yes, game balance was invented just to screw you :rolleyes: .

Allanon Wolfriend
20-06-2006, 12:45
Actually Irrisitable Blow doesnt always hit you yes you can not block or evade it but it can still "miss" the greatest defence ever against a melee target blind them :smiley: 95% chance to "miss".

Obviously blind does not work against touch skills as these are not attacks and so cannot be "blocked", "evaded" or caused to "miss".

Though if the touchie is laying on his back while your pounding on him he isnt going to be doing much in the way of activating skills! Mmmmm Gale 3 whole seconds of being pounded on while you cant run or respond now thats gunna hurt!