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zweistein
20-06-2006, 21:47
If you look above portal near last facet, you will see this:

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/8475/gw0526og.th.jpg (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw0526og.jpg)

Strange crystaline tower, seemingly made of crystaline, with 5 disks of light circling it.

5 discs could corenspond to 5 gods? Any other ideas, relations ...?

Quintus Antonius
20-06-2006, 22:21
I've always assumed the tower was where Glint lives and each of the five circles represents a different facet or realm through which you must pass to reach her, or something like that.

The Boz
21-06-2006, 00:26
Well, since it's a grain of sand, that structure is mighty wierd. Further inspection is needed.

Quintus Antonius
21-06-2006, 00:30
Keep in mind that it is crystaline. The nature of the crystal structure is unknown, and judging by other such structures in the Desert, large spikes are common. This may be a natural occurance.

Still, even if the tower itself is a naturally occuring feature (which I agree it probably isn't), the rings encircling it most certainly are not.

Gmr Leon
21-06-2006, 00:33
I'm all for an expedition in the Desert...it's been all to long since I went through the entire Crystal Desert.

The Stiehl
21-06-2006, 01:17
There appears to be 6 rings, the bottom one just appears obscured because of perception/angle/point of view/hard ware/game engine variables. One for each of the Facets?
And isn't Glint's Lair "contained within a single grain of sand," yet still a pocket dimention? I know it's been discussed somewhere before...

Quintus Antonius
21-06-2006, 01:23
Well, it's obviously a pocket dimension, there is no way for a complex creature like that to exist that small without some sort of self-containing universe bubble.

That said, the pocket dimension exists inside the grain of sand or something like that.

Blue_Deth
21-06-2006, 01:41
maybe that's another grain of sand?

Lapin Diabolique
21-06-2006, 03:27
Look up when you're going through the other facets. I remember seeing that tower on a few of them -- it might even exist for all of them.

Quintus Antonius
21-06-2006, 03:41
Look up when you're going through the other facets. I remember seeing that tower on a few of them -- it might even exist for all of them.

Yeah, I noticed it too, which is why I think it is the ultimate destination--Glint's Lair.

LabyrinthsEnd
21-06-2006, 06:30
When I first saw it, it reminded me of some kind of radio tower, could those rings, that seem smaller the higher they go, be some kind of way to send out her vision that is in the forge? I would think that you would need some type of boost to get a full size vision of you (else where) when you are in a grain of sand.

ShadowSword
21-06-2006, 07:40
I agree with Labryinth it looks like the place she can send messages from. She probably lives there as well and the rings are the magical portals or whatever she uses to send messages.

There are too many portal things in GW...

Gmr Leon
21-06-2006, 19:18
I'm kind of curious as to why you would need to live in a grain of sand. To survive makes sense,but it just makes you wonder why Glint lives there and how she managed to make a pocket-dimension. (Assuming she did.)

Quintus Antonius
21-06-2006, 19:24
That's a good point, Leon. I almost suspect Glint may be trapped. If that's the case, who put her there? Also, if she is trapped, that shows a shockingly similar relation to the situation of the Titans.

Sir Jack
21-06-2006, 19:31
Also if she was trapped and she can see the future, why did she allow herself to be trapped?

Kind of makes your head hurt...

Gmr Leon
21-06-2006, 19:32
Are the Titans in a pocket-dimension themselves? I've never really took it into thought myself. It does seem odd that Glint,someone who seemingly tries to save Tyria,would be locked away in a grain of sand...

Quintus Antonius
21-06-2006, 19:39
Also if she was trapped and she can see the future, why did she allow herself to be trapped?

Kind of makes your head hurt...

Well, I'd argue that Glint can't really see the future at all.

If she is trapped, it is possible that the whole Flameseeker Prophcies were a scheme to free her or expand her influence in the same way that the Titans used the Charr.

Also, if Glint is trapped and can still communicate with the outside world, that may explain how the Titans communicate with the Charr.

The Stiehl
21-06-2006, 20:30
Well the Mursaat and Glint are enemies, right? And that remark about how the two traps are similar... maybe the Mursaat trapped Glint along with the Titans?
Or perhaps Glint is in refuge, like the Seers. And Glint created the Flameseeker Prophecies (and we all know how that turned out) in the war between the two? If she made the Prophecies, (whether real or not) it would make more sense that she's in refuge. Who would belive a captive claiming vengence upon your entire race?

It sounds like the Mursaat made a lot of enemies - Titans, Seers, and Glint (maybe it was actually Dragons they disliked, and Glint is the last remaining Greater Dragon). And they psudo-cooperated to destroy the Mursaat. Through us, of course.

Docho
21-06-2006, 20:48
I think something completely else. I think Glint didn't help the humans and only guided them because Glint wouldn't really make humans better by solving their problems. Glint is trying to restore a bit "the balance" (as stated in the manuel about the forgotten and I think Glint has the same task as the forgotten) and she would overthrow the balance if she would interfere to much. Even if she would help the humans thus interfere she would make the humans weak because they wouldn't learn to solve their own problems. If she would help she would get enemies and Glint isn't really invincible.
Besides, Glint being trapped? She can summon a portal wich leads right into Droknars Forge ... so I don't think she's trapped.
I personaly also think that an ancient "prophet-dragon-"wisdomtalker"" would never use brute power, only in a worst case scenario. If you have ever played Warcraft 3 and have read some lore about Warcraft, think about Medive. If you have read the books of LOTR, you will read that Gandalf never wields his true powers although it would easily solve the problem. Think about the Bene Gesserit in Dune who wield enermous power but only use cunning tricks...

Reasons enough I think?

Quintus Antonius
21-06-2006, 22:45
Who says Glint can go through that portal. Opening and door and walking through it are very different. Think about the spirits of the Mists and Hall of Heroes. When Odran went through, the spirits were frustrated that they couldn't interact with him. The ultimate torture is often to hang the object in question (in this case perhaps freedom) dangerously close yet wholly out of reach.

Does Glint posess amazing power? Yes she does. Does that power mean she can free herself? No, not necessarily. Inviting someone into your home, kicking them out, moving them about within it, as essentially Glint does, is very different than moving about yourself.

What if the Forgotten aren't guarding Glint, but rather guarding Glint's prison? Interesting thought. They appear to be subserviant to Glint, but the whole reason the Forgotten went to the Desert in the first place was to escape descrimination and other species. Does it make sense that they escaped this potential slavery just to be enslaved?

Also, keep in mind the hidden animosity of Glint towards humans. She knows that she is sending us into deadlier and deadlier traps, traps we shouldn't walk away from. I have long argued that Glint was actually trying to get us killed without actually dirting her hands. This becomes evident when we pick up an egg in her lair. Yes, she is a mother, and yes she does have the right to protect her young, but if we are the last hope of the world, and as good as Glint leads us to believe, we obviously aren't going to hurt her eggs, and she would have let it slip; but she doesn't. That suggests three things: first, that Glint is the absolute last of her species, or near it, and her survival is pivotal, second, that we aren't as important as she tells us, if we were the last hope, she wouldn't attack us or the world is doomed and her offspring die anyway, third, that she can't see the future, if she could, she'd know that we are pivotal and also that her eggs were safe, and furthermore, she'd know we could kill her.

Cunning tricks? Yes, but not for the reasons we think.

The Stiehl
21-06-2006, 23:10
If Glint kills you, she then immedietly ressurects you. So who has the priority here, the Mursaat or us? I think her attacking us was an abject lesson, she even admonishes us for attacking something stronger than ourselves.

Food for thought: Perhaps the Forgotten are not 'enslaved' by Glint, but merely serve her? Entrused with the same duties by the Gods, it's only natural they would find kinship.

More food for thought: Perhaps Glint is the 'Queen Brood Mother' of the Forgotten?

Quintus Antonius
21-06-2006, 23:15
Glint never ressurected my groups.

The Stiehl
21-06-2006, 23:16
Don't you count getting teleported to Droknar's Forge alive "ressurected?"

Quintus Antonius
21-06-2006, 23:27
Not really, that's a game dynamic that ANet added because people were peeved that they beat the mission only to have to do it again.

I remember back when you didn't get sent there and had to do it all over.

The Stiehl
21-06-2006, 23:33
Ahem. Never knew about the pre-cutscene-res-thing. *Changes subject*

Still, Forgotten never seemed 'enslaved' to me, only either driven out eons ago by humans, or merely working alongside Glint towards whatever ends they are working towards.

galad
22-06-2006, 00:18
Not really, that's a game dynamic that ANet added because people were peeved that they beat the mission only to have to do it again.

I remember back when you didn't get sent there and had to do it all over.

But there is even a cut scene after she kills you where she says something along the lines "Your story doesn't end lieng dead on my lair" and so on, so I find it hard to believe that they added this cutscene later.

And even if they did this is whats in the game now so Glint even forgives us for trying to steal her eggs which she probably values far more than some random adventurers.

Quintus Antonius
22-06-2006, 00:34
But there is even a cut scene after she kills you where she says something along the lines "Your story doesn't end lieng dead on my lair" and so on, so I find it hard to believe that they added this cutscene later.

And even if they did this is whats in the game now so Glint even forgives us for trying to steal her eggs which she probably values far more than some random adventurers.

No, they did add that later, and I was unaware of it as I haven't played the Dragon's Lair since before that change.

I can agree with your points, as that is a good piece of evidence.

That said, I still think there is some larger reason as to why Glint is in the particular location; whether this is her choice or not, I'm not sure. I've always questioned Glint's motivations, and the Flameseeker Prophecies in general.

hexal
22-06-2006, 13:30
I'm sure i've read somewhere that Glint is hiding in that grain of sand, or something like that...

Kahn Of War
22-06-2006, 14:51
Yes it has been mentioned several times in this topic that Glints lair is indeed in a single grain of sand.

I think somewhere in here as well it has been proposed that it is a parallel dimention hidden within said grain of sand.

jvxmtg
22-06-2006, 22:05
I always thought that those strange towers were the source of the global effects.

Kahn Of War
22-06-2006, 23:13
To be honest, as people have mentioned they are above each portal. So I always just assumed they were the next place.

As for the one above the exit of Glint's Lair, perhaps another place we never get to see?

Shrimp
29-06-2006, 06:55
Not really, that's a game dynamic that ANet added because people were peeved that they beat the mission only to have to do it again.

I remember back when you didn't get sent there and had to do it all over.

If getting ported to Forge is just a game dynamic then why can't the whole bonus just be a game dynamic?

The first time I did the bonus I found the whole thing really contrived. I had this image of the designers throwing darts at a board while trying to come up with something... anything... that would qualify as a decent bonus. The darts just happened to land on "kill" and "glint".

Consider this: to this point in the campaign the game is stupidly easy. Now, suddenly, we have a dungeon that actually requires some thought to complete. Say what you will about Glint and the lore surrounding here, but I personally think the bonus itself is in there as a shock to players who are used to just throwing in whatever skill seems coolest to them. In order to pull off killing Glint with any efficiency you need each person to do something besides c + space then run through their skills. People have to watch what skills Glint is using and act accordingly, something that you don't need to do at any point in the campaign up to then.

Zaxares
29-06-2006, 07:38
Glint used to be 500 times harder, back when you couldn't see the skill descriptions of what the monsters were using, and thusly players had to learn what Glint was using the hard way.

Raven Flameheart
29-06-2006, 15:25
One of the Forgotten involved in the quest "The Forgotten Ones"/"Forgotten Wisdom" mentions that the forgotten were driven to the desert, and that is where they met thier "current master". I can't remember the wording, and I have no characters that have yet to do that quest, so I cannot check, but that forgotten says something like "if you are strong enough, you may get to meet her". This would imply that Glint is the forgotten's master, and not thier prisoner.

Still, she could yet be a prisoner of another, and if so it is possible she is using you to free herself. Or it is equally possible that she is in hiding, and is using you to make the world such that she does not need to hide.

jayson
10-02-2009, 04:29
Massive Thread necromancy here.

I've always wondered what those energy towers and the rings surrounding them were for. I posted a few years ago on GW RPG Stars and never got an answer. I replayed the mission today and I think I can safely say the towers are in fact only one tower. It just seems to change color according to the facet you're facing. Possibly looking through a magic haze colors the entire area? I watched the tower closley and when you defeat a facet, a ring disappears. So the rings could either represent the facet itself or are magical locks preventing passage through the portals you move through to gain an audience with Glint.

I figured better to post here then to make another thread on such an old topic.

Konig Des Todes
11-02-2009, 02:52
It is the same tower - the tower is over Glint herself. The rings actually appear as you defeat the Facets.

I have always viewed the rings as a lock, you need to get all the combination right before you can go to where Glint is. And, iirc, Leon thinks the same (we looked at this in game a while ago while having to do that mission).

La Jaffa
11-02-2009, 15:36
Kinda like the augury rock lock.