The Ancient Threat: The History & Reality of the Titans

[Mularc Templare]

Preface: A note on the findings

This paper was written after fairly extensive reasearch by myself and others, however, it like everything on these forums, is not necessarily complete. There are some links I have drawn which may not be there, and thus my findings are open for open scrutiny.

History
----------

With the information able to be collected in-game, I have been unable to find an exact date when the Door of Komalie was closed. However, there are several sources such as the Ancient Seer which gives the bonus to the players in Hells Prepice


Origionally by the Seer in the Hell's Prepice Bonus
I wish to see this to its end. Over the eons, much has changed in Tyria, but not these Titans

As well as having links to the Charr, the Titans are clearly shown to be ancient. If their name is truely drawn from myth, then it would seem older then the gods themselves. They may be older then our present set of gods, but I doubt they would be older then first gods.

Links to Present Day Cultures
-----------------------------------

1.) The Charr

The easiest links with a present culture is the Charr. The Charr worship the Titans as gods, and have done since before players are intorduced into the picture.

They make the perfect gods for the Charr, who worship fire as the ultimate. The "Fire Titans" are the only set seen around the Charr, who would in esssence be living gods to them. You can see effigies erected to honor the Titans across Ascalon in both Post Searing (Nolani Academy (http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6769/nolanieffigy7rt.jpg)) & Pre-Searing (The Northlands). It is also to be noticed that in the "Last Day Dawns" Titan quest, there are fairly high level Charr acompanying the Titans.

2.) The Mursaat

The Mursaat live in fear of the Titans. It may be the reason they guard the Door of Komalie so ferverently. This can be seen by the very large number of Mursaat inhabiting the Fire Island Chain, and the eloborate structures created there. Also, the sacrafices on the Bloodstone in the Jungle keep the door closed, and in essence seal the Titans.

Many of us that have seen a Mursaat group battling a Titan, and the sheer domination they get. We can assume from their guardianship that they either know whats behind the door and its power, or the only know that it is bad, as acording to legend.

Consequently, the Titans are inadventently the reason the Mursaat are the gods of the White Mantle - they need a vessal which to indentify potential chosen and stop the prophesies from occuring.

3.) The Seers

Although we know little about this enigmatic race, it is safe to assume they are ancient. The Seer quoted above (http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6052/seer7pb.jpg)shows that they are infact far older then first believed, and do know about the Titans. This could show that the Titans once were released before, rather then always being behind the
Door.

4.) Humans

Ascalonian Humans know of the Titans best, having seen the effigies of the Charr littered around their country for hundreds of years. It is clear however, that the legend of these creatures was lost to time, as during Last Day Dawns, King Adlebern is unable to identify them as Titans.

Humans that do not live in Ascalon would have no prior knowledge of these creatures - there is no hints in game to tell us that legends have lived on, including the legend of the Mursaat, which clearly is lost from the peoples minds.

5.) Glint

Glints knowledge of the Titans could be seen to be spotty at best. It is her Flameseeker Prophesies which lead the players into the Mursaat controlled Fire Island Chain, to open the door, yet she is shocked at the outcome once it happens.

There is no way of telling whether Glint has actually seen the Titans before, or whether they were sealed before she was able to.

Phisiology
-------------

Note: I have been unable to find a reason why all types of Titans drop Molten Claws.

My research has uncovered a detail which I think has been fairly overlooked when we see the Titans - they do not in fact have any set bodies. They are not phisically sealed behind the door, but instead are beings of spirit.

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/8158/door6zn.th.jpg (http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=door6zn.jpg)
This image shows several spirits leaving the entrance, and the next picture

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1814/formation2ko.th.jpg (http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=formation2ko.jpg)

Shows that they spirits simply bond with an element of their choosing, and reform.

You can see these spirits from the outside, or something which looks like them on the Water/Earth (http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/8531/windhighlight11vl.jpg)/Wind (http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/9379/windhighlight29nm.jpg) Born Titans.

This begs the question: did they always look like this?

My answer would be yes. Although there are no solid theories on how "spirits" operate in our world,Tyrian spirits (or souls should that be easier to understand) seem to able to think and act just like their living counterparts. This would make me think that the Titans remembered their forms, and when
coming back to the world, simply assumed the form which was most common to them.

Reproduction
-----------------

In our dealings with the Titans, we dont actually see the Titans reproduce at all - they fragment into more "base" elemental forms. For example, the Burning Titans (http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/7313/fire0ne.jpg) are formed of Moltern Lava, or maybe a base Flame (I am using the assumption that they can stand in lava without sustaining any damage or hinderance) however, when defeated they become Ash Walker Titans (http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3823/ashwalker6rt.jpg), formed of their namesake ash (as in the residue left from a fire) when these Titans are defeated they become the basest form - Heat, embodied by the Fist/Hand (http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/641/handfists4tk.jpg) of the Titans.

Although this may seem weird, my assumption is that they do not actually create a new soul upon dying like a phoenix, but simply split their souls between different vessals, controlling both. There is no proof as to what happens once these twin forms have been killed, and I have no assumptions as to what happens.

Types of Titans
-------------------

There are three main elements of Titans - Fire (http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8369/fire28jt.jpg), Earth/Wind (http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/9379/windhighlight29nm.jpg) & Water (Ice) (http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5618/icegmrleon5zd.jpg) (Image Credit: Gmr Leon). Both the Fire & Earth Titans appear in more then one location, whereas Ice Titans only appear in the Southern Shiverpeaks.

Fire Titans appear in both the Hell's Prepice Mission & the "Last Day Dawns" Titan Quest. Earth Titans appear in both the "Defend Denravi" & "Defend North Kryta Province" Titan Quests. Both of these types have a strait foward fragmentation sturcture, with the largest fragmenting into a single creature, and the this creature fragmenting into a number of smaller creatures.

The Ice Titans are the odd lot out of the group. Once the largest form is killed, they will fragment into two different types, which each spawn another single creature upon death. The reason for this earlier split is unknown.

Intelligence
--------------

We as players are unaware whether the Titans possess any intelligance, however, it is safe to assume that they do have a degree of such. In the Last Day Dawns quest, they are seen wandering around with the Charr, which
at least shows they have the ability to differentiate between friend and foe.

They are seen recieving orders from the Lich at the end of the Abbadon's Mouth Mission, and thus are seen to be able to understand simple commands. Whether they are simply being totally controlled by the Lich via the Sceptor
of Orr, remains a mystery.

The Sceptor of Orr
---------------------

The Sceptor of Orr is an ancient relic passed down through the Orrian royal family. Its use is not generally known, which is to control the Titans. At this time, debate still ensures about where the Sceptor came from, and why it
is able to control the Titans. It appears however that at the end of the Hell's Prepice mission it is taken by Glint. The reasoning behind this is unknown.

End
------

I hope all of you have enjoyed reading this paper. Special thanks to Quintus for looking over this, and thanks go to all who visit and post in these forums.

I would also like to thank my guild (Overclockers Australia [OCAU]) for taking me on more then one expedition.

Again, not everything written here can be backed up with firm material, and a some links are assumed.

Mularc Templare

[lavenbb]

I think I have something to add.

1.) Because after the Titans are released, the Mursaats are shown to not be able to deal with them, we can pretty much say that Mursaat magic (IE spectral agony) fails against the titans. This means a few things, mostly addressed in the Mursaat/spectral agony thread.

2.) One possible reason that they all drop molten claws, would be because they all assumed a lava form when they are first released by the players. When the lich command them to walk through the portals, they're walking, physical lava thingies, not spirit. It seems that they just shifted themselves when the environment changed.

3.) I actually think that once they breakdown or split they're a seperate entity. When an ice titan breaks down, it breaks into a mesmer (denial magic line), and a monk (preservation magic line). When a fire titan breaks down, it breaks into a necro (aggression magic line). When those ranger type titans breakdown, they become eles (destruction magic line). Since the bloodstones aren't united. A single creature can only master one kind of magic, therefore they must be seperate creatures. So they probably reproduce asexually, like hydras. they cannot keep reproducing indefinitely because they are being killed, and therefore not having enough energy or resources to do so. However we don't see them duplicating themselves either, so it probably takes a long while for them to fully replicate themselves.

4.) Once the player closes the door of Komalie, the vocano erupted. Coincidence? Probably not :P If closing the door triggers something in the environment such that the vocano will erupt, the last time the vocano erupted and was recorded in history, was the time when it erupted and spitted the bloodstones all over Tyria.

[ShadowSword]

An excellent paper which seems to cover the basics. My immediate opinion is that laven is right, they split into actual different creatures. Presumably their spirits can split in two.

[Gmr Leon]

Mularc if you want a larger version of the Ice Titan pic I'll bring it up. Also,great paper. Although I still don't understand where the idea that Glint took the scepter originated,but that's probably explained in another topic. Honestly I would probably overlook the Titans being spirits a ton of times.

[eyeoffaith]

That was a very interesting read. It cerainly brought up some ideas I had never considered.

Regarding Titan intelligence, it always seemed to me that the smaller ones behaved more intelligently than the larger titans. The hands/fists always seemed more dangerous to support characters. Maybe the bigger ones, being made up of multiple spirits get conflicting ideas on what to attack, whereas the hands/fists, with only one spirit each are much more focussed and seem to try and hunt down the support characters. At least that has been my observation from being the monk on many excusions to Hells.

Also, you may want to mention the Titan Sparks. They seem the most intelligent and most dangerous. Also, they seem to start with one spirt and do not split and are not formed by the splitting of any other titan. This makes them unique amongst the titans (except for the titan bossess).

[Mularc Templare]

Thanks for the support guys.

Gmr, the idea did origionate in another thread. I'm sorry I can't find exactly where, but this is the general gist.

At the end of the Hell's Prepice cutscene, we are greeted with a vision of Glint. She tells us to run, and we do. The Sceptor mystically dissapears in a sort of energy like that of the vision, and thus it has been assumed that Glint took it.

We could all be wrong, and your post did remind me of that. It is possible that the Bloodstone even absorbed it. Thats a debate for another thread.

EyeofFaith you do bring up a good point - I didn't really notice playing an ele most of the time :P However, I would have to dissagree with your theory that the large Titans have multiple spirits - the Abbandon's Mouth Cutscene shows them forming from a single spirit.

And Laven, you are probably very correct...I didn't think about the volacno erupting and the Door being closed as a causual thing.

Sorry the papaer wasn't more in depth, unfortunately I was unable to find much info.

Mularc

[eyeoffaith]

Thanks for the support guys.
<snip>
EyeofFaith you do bring up a good point - I didn't really notice playing an ele most of the time :P However, I would have to dissagree with your theory that the large Titans have multiple spirits - the Abbandon's Mouth Cutscene shows them forming from a single spirit.
<snip>
Mularc

Ahh. OK. When I read your above paper I thought you implied that several spirits formed one titan, but I see that I misread.

[Zaxares]

Nice paper, Mularc! As mentioned above, the one anomaly among the Titans are the Sparks of the Titans, which do not form from a larger Titan and which do not split up into smaller Titans when they die. This implies that either the Sparks are not a form of Titan at all and their name is simply a result of misnaming, or that the Sparks actually derive from one of the larger Titans, but this is simply not shown in the game. (Personally, I would think that when a Burning Titan dies, it would split into a Spark and a Risen Ashen Hulk)

[Donut Zeke]

Notice the of in Spark OF the Titan's name. Could this mean that they are just slaves to the titans? A spark starts a fire, so maybe a titan splits down naturally (we just help them do it more quickly) and the sparks help rebuild the two now seperate titans into two new titans, and the titans reproduce that way.

[Seyfert]

after rereading the description of the quest, Defends Droknars Forge, im convinced that titans do possess higher intelligence, perhaps lower than humans but still higher than simple friend-foe differenciation, it says you're to hunt down a titan lord, first note, he has a rank this could simply be an alpha male yes, but he also has a first and last name which seems to suggest something and they way they put it, it would seem to suggest he's more of a general which suggests he gives orders to his troops, this would at least seem to show that they have some degree of higher intelligence

[Zaxares]

Notice the of in Spark OF the Titan's name. Could this mean that they are just slaves to the titans? A spark starts a fire, so maybe a titan splits down naturally (we just help them do it more quickly) and the sparks help rebuild the two now seperate titans into two new titans, and the titans reproduce that way.

Except that we also have the 'Hand of the Titans' and 'Fist of the Titans', and both definitely spawn from Titans.

[Donut Zeke]

But in that case, the hand and fist are part of the titans physiology. Though the sparks may not be their slaves, I think it would make sense if they built up the titans like stated previously, because a spark does build a fire.

[Mularc Templare]

I must have forgot to state it, but I unfortuantely couldn't gather much information on the Shiverpeaks Quest or Ice Titans quest, as my only character up to that point had done both before I took up this project.

It also may have been unclear, but I never said they weren't more highly intelligent - I merely stated that in my observations they at least have enough intelligence to differentiate friend and foe.

I personally see them as maybe having either a central intelligence or "something" pulling their strings. But thats just pure speculation, which was why I didn't put it in the paper.

Oh, and the absense of the Sparks was an oversight. I was struggling to put them into the heirachy, and the section I had written on them wasn't added to the document before I posted it. Sorry about that -_-

Mularc

[Ranger Nietzsche]

well the sparks of the titans look, act, and cast like imps. Which makes me think they are imps.

the name might simply be resultant of the fact that they hang out with titans, and are not spawned from them.

The sparks of the titans have similar spell casting to fire imps and inferno imps which is also why i believe them to be imps.

[Arctus Redryn]

Any thoughts as to why certain Burning Titans are named Armageddon Lords?

In addition, not all Titans break down. Air, Water, Earth, and Rotting Titans do not break down into other Titans (not sure).

Notice also that boss Titans do not break down into other Titans.

On a side note, has anyone suggested that Dwayna, Melandru, Balthazar, Grenth, and Lyssa each represent a magic of a Bloodstone?

[Zaxares]

Any thoughts as to why certain Burning Titans are named Armageddon Lords?

The Seer who gives the bonus in Hell's Precipice mentions that the Armageddon Lords are the generals of the Titans; the largest, strongest and most powerful of their species. Curiously, the Armageddon Lords are only ever Burning Titans. It's debatable whether other variants of Titans (Frost, Rotting etc.) could also produce Armageddon Lords.

[Mularc Templare]

In theory Zaxares, any type could spawn Armageddon Lords - they simply chose the Burning Titan because the environmentwas most easily accessable.

As to the Ice Titan in the Shiverpeaks having a name, I can actually explain that now. In Guild Wars, boss names dont come from the actual boss themselves they are common names used by us humans. It works the same for area names. Thus, the boss has probably been named by one of the Dwarves defending Droknars, and the name stuck.

Again, that is assuming that my theory is correct.

Oh, and a small correction - they are the Champions of the Titan race, not the leaders. Sorry Zaxares, had to clarify that.

Mularc

[lavenbb]

The bosses in Hell's precipice also have names...

If you think of them as something like bees, where they have a sort of social structure, the armageddon lord could be something like drones. And their function is as leaders of their society.

[Seyfert]

if they were named by the dwarves wouldn't they have dwarven names? (cant remember what there names were so this could be pointless)

[Quintus Antonius]

I believe that the Titans function with a collective intelligence, or at least, a hive mind. This enables them to function as large-type Titans, as well as fragment-type Titans. It is also possible that the large-types are actually composites of several spirits, which is why they are able to break down and still operate independantly.

As for the names, it is important to remember that they are not the names given by the Titans themselves, but rather, by third-parties (such as the dwarves for instance). Names such as "Titan's Fist" are most likely metaphorical rather than physiogical.

Great paper, Mularc. I'm glad you took the extra time to refine and perfect your theory, and I look forward to future articles you publish.

[Quintus Antonius]

Mularc, I'm resurrecting this thread to congratulate you on your research. The new elite mission in Nightfall has confirmed that the Titans are in-fact formless spirits. You read it here first folks! Good work, Mularc.

[Gmr Leon]

Now if this doesn't just scream the fact that Anet's writers are using the information we gather I don't know what will. Heh..Nice work Mularc!

[Quintus Antonius]

Well, I also think that Mularc just did some good old fashioned research and uncovered what was already in the game, but most people overlooked. However, I still like to think we inspire ANet as much as they inspire us.

[Barinthus]

I fought against Titans while doing Defend Droknar's Forge. I was surprised to notice that some titans have 6 eyes just like Abaddon.

I have screenies of Icy Brute, Dark Titan, heart of the Titan, and others. If you want, I can post those.

BTW there are no Earth Titans in Defend Droknar's Forge - only Frost Titans.

Evirso Sectus the Titan general in this quest does not appear as a Frost Titan. Instead, he resembles a Titan (default fire titan) or an Armadaggdon Lord. Unlike other large titans, he does not break into lesser titans upon his demise.

Interesting thing to mention - you cannot summon Lyssa's Muse from that statue in the cave until after Evirso is killed even if there's favor.

[The Stiehl]

You know how Razah was a spirit of the Mists, who needed a "template" to form? (See this (http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=425623) thread) I think Titans are spirits of the Mists, corrupted by Abaddon, who use elements as templates. Make sense, yes/no?

[Quintus Antonius]

The Domain of Anguish quests tell us the the Titans are tormented spirits and failed creations.

[aptaleonII]

they do have significant intelligence... just listen to Ignis Cruor. definitely intelligent enough to name themselves- further backed up by the fact that a similar naming style is found on titans everywhere.

[Quintus Antonius]

No doubt. They also were smart enough to manipulate the Charr. Sure, Abaddon was pulling the strings behind the scenes, but somehow I think the Titans are more willful than we give them credit for.

[the forests wisper]

i no im a bit l8 but....
GR8 work!!!!

u really got this in the bag!

my only addition is that ive always believed that titans dont need to reproduce.

let me explain

a titan is a spirit, fact.
it latches it self to fire,earth,wind,water in its local area to form a physical being.
when this physical being is destroyed the titan spirit simply creates a new form inorder to remain in the physical.

after the second form is destroyed it is running low on "make-a-body" energy
so it makes 2 in order to survive in some way but there weaker than the other 2.

after these are destroyed i believe the titan spirit goes back to there realm (which apears to be the domain of anguish) and simply recharges before coming back through to form a newbody.

this would explain y the murrsat are so afraid of them. if u can throw ur army at them and detroy them 1 time, youll be weak and they will just come back in a few days time doing another full on attack.

also i think that NF titans are like the nightfall titans are the "failed creations"
spoken of because they are diffrent to the "original" (i say original because the chap 1 titans were known about first) in that they are made from flesh and bone( i no they dont count as fleshy in game but look at them!)


i also think that it takes time for a spirit to be come tormented to the point of turning into a titan spirit

on another note, whats the chances of a titan hive mind kinda thing going on, because they are inteligent as described above but they are to organized in the way they attack and go after citys (i no the lich sent them but what if the scepter of orr controled the hive mind and linked it to the lich when he had it.)

this is only a theroy to add to yours but it seems like it will hold some water.

flame,agree or mock my ideas as much as u like ppl!

ty

[Quintus Antonius]

Yeah, I agree with the hive-mind theory. It's the only way that the Titans could manifest in the way they do. One titan breaks down into two or three, that is a major split in what we would think of singular conciousness. Without a hive-mind, how could one individual coordinate with the others when its conciousness has been split like that?

[Gobla]

The thing I'm actually doubting since Nightfall is:

Did the scepter really have control over the titans?

We have 2 chains of events going on:

Abaddon -> Corruption Assistant of Vizier -> Trickery of Vizier -> Release Titans

and

Abaddon -> Creation/Corruption Titans -> Titan History ( unknown ) -> Release Titans.

Both are caused by Abaddon and end with the release of the titans. Now the Vizier isn't corrupted by Abaddon, I would say tricked is a better word. There is no mention that he followed Abaddon before his defeat, so I will not assume this. Only his assistant who tricked him into casting that big BANG spell was a follower of Abaddon as far as we know.

Now the question is, were the titans really bound to the scepter of orr or did they only act as such. I find it very much possible, and seeing the strength of the titans even likely, that the scepter had no control over them of any kind. They only followed the orders of the Vizier because Abaddon ordered them to do so.

Especially since the goals of both Abaddon and the Vizier are exactly the same: Domination of Tyria.

We now have this plan of Abaddon:

Corruption Assistant -> Trickery Vizier -> Trickery Players -> Release Titans -> Domination over Tyria by Vizier through Titans -> Release and return of Abaddon -> Vizier overthrown by Titans -> Abaddon Ruler of Tyria aided by Titans.

I personally think that would be a whole lot more likely because:

- The Titans are extremely powerfull. That they are completely dominated by a single staff seems a bit odd.
- Abaddon is the god of secrets, this sounds like a plan of a god of secrets.
- Even when the Lich is a general of Abaddon my impression was that the only reason he did so was to get revenge on us, the players.
- Terick says: "Just as simply as I used that foolish Vizier to wipe Orr from this world" in the quest escape from the torment. If the Vizier was a follower of Abaddon then surely he would not be called foolish. This clearly shows that the Vizier was manipulated.

[Rob Van Der Sloot]

The thing I'm actually doubting since Nightfall is:

Did the scepter really have control over the titans?

I doubt it. The titans have been proven to be self-aware entities. And since Glint asks us to rid the land of the titan-threat, this would be rather silly since Glint took the Scepter of Orr during the prophecies end cinematic.



We have 2 chains of events going on:

Abaddon -> Corruption Assistant of Vizier -> Trickery of Vizier -> Release Titans

Not true. The vizier read a forbidden scroll and sank the entire peninsula. He did become the Lich later on, but lets not confuse the two. The Vizier was not tricked into unleashing the Titans.



Corruption Assistant -> Trickery Vizier -> Trickery Players -> Release Titans -> Domination over Tyria by Vizier through Titans -> Release and return of Abaddon -> Vizier overthrown by Titans -> Abaddon Ruler of Tyria aided by Titans.

Actually it's:

Abaddon sends Corrupted Advisor ->
Trickery Vizier ->
Orr is destroyed, Vizier becomes the Undead Lich - >
many years pass - >
Lich tricks the players disquised as the Vizier ->
Players steal the Scepter of Orr and hand it to the Lich - >
Players clear the way to Abaddon's Mouth - >
Vizier uses the Scepter of Orr to summon the titans - >
Titans launch attacks on the main kapitals of Tyria

[Gobla]

I doubt it. The titans have been proven to be self-aware entities. And since Glint asks us to rid the land of the titan-threat, this would be rather silly since Glint took the Scepter of Orr during the prophecies end cinematic.



Not true. The vizier read a forbidden scroll and sank the entire peninsula. He did become the Lich later on, but lets not confuse the two. The Vizier was not tricked into unleashing the Titans.
But the idea to unleash the titans and that the scepter of orr would allow you to control them had to come from somewhere. My take: Abaddon. So in this way he was tricked, wich is what I meant. Just like Shiro was tricked into killing the emperor. The Idea to do it was planted into his head by agents of Abaddon.




Actually it's:

Abaddon sends Corrupted Advisor ->
Trickery Vizier ->
Orr is destroyed, Vizier becomes the Undead Lich - >
many years pass - >
Lich tricks the players disquised as the Vizier ->
Players steal the Scepter of Orr and hand it to the Lich - >
Players clear the way to Abaddon's Mouth - >
Vizier uses the Scepter of Orr to summon the titans - >
Titans launch attacks on the main kapitals of Tyria

That's how it actually went. It's not Abaddon's full plan on how he planned to take over Tyria. I only gave a short summary of his plans.

[the forests wisper]

I doubt it. The titans have been proven to be self-aware entities. And since Glint asks us to rid the land of the titan-threat, this would be rather silly since Glint took the Scepter of Orr during the prophecies end cinematic.[/b]

i never thought of that! im willing to be that abbadons little minions manipulaetd the lich into believing he would hav controll of the titans, but really it was abbadon behind the sceans telling them to do liches bidding to make the lich destroy tyria.

also back to the hive mind therory, what if abbadon is the hive mind? would explain y we never see general types (varish is the only exception i can think of) in any of his armys (tormenter critters,titans and the like).

ok time to controdict my self...

also if all the titans are is a spirit, then the hive mind could be a gaia type "mother earth" spirit, that simply grows with new souls and when a titan "dies" it goes back to the mother spirit to be reborn and go do more havok.

also just had another thought, what if the destruction of orr and ascalon, the plague in cantha and jade wind were all just a big way for abbadon to collect spirits to fuel a titan army? im sure to power 1 titan it would take a few spirits (this would explain the breaking down aswell).

(another) also the titans are kinda insect looking (lots of legs and an exo-skel that holds them together) so im willing to bet they are like a like bees to the queen in the hive mind fasion. (im pretty darn convinced on the hive mind if u havent noticed,lol)

any thoughts?

[Rob Van Der Sloot]

The collective hive mind is an interesting theory. It could be that Abaddon is in fact their hive mind. In other words, Abaddon sees through the eyes of the Titans, and directly controls them.

On the other hand, the Titans would not have any reason to ignore the Lich's command anyway. They were on the same side, and were serving a common purpose after all.


also just had another thought, what if the destruction of orr and ascalon, the plague in cantha and jade wind were all just a big way for abbadon to collect spirits to fuel a titan army? im sure to power 1 titan it would take a few spirits (this would explain the breaking down aswell).


If I recall correctly the Titans are a type of spirit born from the Mists and grown in the Foundry of Failed Creations. They would require no spirits, since their essence is formed in the Mists. More likely Abaddon needed spirits to power himself. He was badly weakened after all, and the Gods had him all chained up. You can see huge rivers of souls running through the Realm of Torment. I think this is either flowing straight to Abaddon, or it's the souls fed through Abbadon's Mouth to keep the gateway closed.

[Tide to Go]

I just have to say

Scepter of Orr can control creatures from the under world.....

so since the lich was in power of the Scepter of Orr, this could mean he summoned spirits from under world(Uw) and molded them into diffrent shapes, without the Scepter the Lich could not command the titans, and i dont know why the other titans escaped and you have to kill them, I think it was because they went throught the portal? anyways that happined only after the Lich died so they spread out across the land of tyria untammed.....if someone posted what i said im sorry, dident have much time to read all the post in this thread.:listen:

[Quintus Antonius]

Manuscripts say that the Undead have a respect for rank that carries over from their mortal life.

[ShadowReapr]

Personally, I do not believe the Sceptor controls the Titans, so much as simply being a powerful requirement for opening the door of Komalie, perhaps even blessed with the blood of King Doric (it was at Orr he spoke to the Gods, wasn't it?). This might, incidently, explain how it got to be in Kryta.

For reasons unknown, the sceptor acts as a beacon to the undead or even otherworldly forces. The undead eerily march through all manner of dangerous environments with just one motive: Getting the flipping sceptor. It is unknown whether they were animated/zombified (by the Vizier/Lich Lord) with this task in mind, or otherwise. Since we do not know the specifics, I'll just say this: If the Sceptor of Orr acts as such a powerful beacon to the undead or spirits of the Tyrian world/continent, I can understand why we were tasked with eliminating the Staff of Mists at a later date.

Now, why did the Titans operate under the Vizier, at least for a while. I believe that despite all their underhanded tricks and intellect, they have a primal urge to be summoned towards the Sceptor of Orr, giving the Lich a form of control over the Titans. That, or Abaddon was secretly in contact with the Titans, ordering them to operate within several orders of the Lich, fully aware he/it wouldn't last long.

In summary, I simply believe the Orr is a key, among it's several other functions. I believe it is blessed with the blood of Doric, which is why it can be used in sealing or thus re-opening of the Door of Komalie, like with the bloodstones. I believe this is partly the reason the White Mantle take such an interest in it - if the Mursaat know of it's power, they would either want it back to help in protecting the door, or want to destroy it. I'm unsure whether or not there is a psychic attraction to the Sceptor. On the one hand, the Titans respond to it and the undead walk towards it. On the other, they may do it under ulterior reasons and motives.

I hope I've offered a new way of looking at the situation. Excellent paper, by the way. I really hope in the future you'll consider doing a more up-to-date one, with info on the Nightfallen varieties and new information, because I found it excellent and entertaining to read.

[Rob Van Der Sloot]

I just have to say

Scepter of Orr can control creatures from the under world.....

so since the lich was in power of the Scepter of Orr, this could mean he summoned spirits from under world(Uw) and molded them into diffrent shapes, without the Scepter the Lich could not command the titans, and i dont know why the other titans escaped and you have to kill them, I think it was because they went throught the portal? anyways that happined only after the Lich died so they spread out across the land of tyria untammed.....if someone posted what i said im sorry, dident have much time to read all the post in this thread.:listen:

The Scepter has no connection to the Underworld, nor are the Titans creatures from the Underworld. The Titans come from the Foundry of Failed Creations. The Scepter of Orr did not control the Titans either. It couldn't have. Otherwise, why would Glint ask of you to stop the Titans while she just took the Scepter of Orr herself?

The Scepter of Orr, much like it's sister staff the Staff of the Mists, opens portals to other planes of existence. That is how the Lich opened portals to Lion's Arc, Thunderhead Keep and Rin. After the Lich died the Titans still continued their mission, to attack the great cities of Tyria. Titans are sentient beings after all. They even have their own language, and some can even speak common Tyrian.

As for the undead, they probably follow the Lich's orders, even without the Scepter of Orr.


if the Mursaat know of it's power, they would either want it back to help in protecting the door, or want to destroy it.

That would make sense, though I don't think they ever intended to use it themselves. They probably know that the Scepter corrupts.

[Quintus Antonius]

I think I may know how the Charr made contact with the Titans. We know it was a pillar of fire, but we don't know much more than that. Can the Titans manifest themselves in fire, or was a Titan spirit free from the Foundry and appearing in the fire?

I believe it may be a combination of the two. Consider this: We know that north of Ascalon, near the city of Drascir, lies the Tombs of Drascir where the kings of Ascalon were buried. According to the Prophecies Manuscripts, specifically the story about Devona, the Tombs of Drascir are a portal to the Hall of Heroes, but more specifically the Rift. Where is the Rift? The Mists. It is not a stretch of the imagination that a Titan that escaped the Foundry used this portal to contact the Charr.

To back this theory further, I submit the following: There are Charr in the Realm of Torment, living, breathing Charr. While there are dead Charr as well, there are those who travelled to the Realm, rather than being sent there. To get there, they'd have had to use a portal similar to the Tombs or Great Temple of Balthazar, but the Charr, by all indications, do not have access to this. A portal in the Charr held Northlands would provide the necessary jump-point for Charr to enter the Realm. Scortch Emberspire talks of he and a group of Charr stumbling into the Realm and being devoured by demons (except Scortch of course). The only place they could have entered from was the portal at the Tombs of Drascir.