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DarkHaunts
22-07-2006, 17:56
I don't get it... the Paragon to me simply seems to be a tactical warrior who chooses not to tank, but instead stands out of melee and shouts orders. What makes this profession unique? Can't we do that now with a warrior who pumps a lot of points into Tactics?

I know! It's the white armor!

Erasculio
22-07-2006, 18:16
(I don't know, of course, but here's my guess...)

Remember the suggestions for a bard class in GW? That's what I think the Paragon is. Despite the appearance similar with a Warrior, I believe a Paragon will have the role of staying back and buffing the party. The "voice chants" mentioned in the gamespot article may even be the equivalent to the bard's songs - a continued action that gives you some benefit as long as its in progress.

So I wouldn't expect a Warrior with Tatics - rather, someone able to buff the party in many different ways (unlike the mostly self buffs of the Tatics line), including Hex removal (something a Warrior cannot do), Conditions removal, better attack rate for the entire party, damage mitigation for everyone, etc...

(IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO)

Erasculio

critical vengeance
22-07-2006, 18:23
Yeah the paragon sounds like it has throwing spears, which means DO NOT TANK, unless somehow it has incredible armor whcih would get nerfed. Monks heals ritualists protect the part, paragon i think will just buff everyone into uber mode.

Xunlai Agent
22-07-2006, 18:27
Guess your way to victory

Servant of Kali
22-07-2006, 18:28
Actually Rt is more of a bard class. At first glance no, but ever looked at spirits names ? "...song" "...song". :)

Paragon is more like ranger/orders-necro to me than a warrior.

Princess eirika
22-07-2006, 18:28
Right now I see the Paragon as a pretty well balanced class, i cant wait to see the skills and attributes :D

Maybe...about, 3-4 energy regen, 25-30 energy, Im seeing about 70 armor maybe, But they seem like they can dish out some damage from behind, and let others do their job better. But then again, we really are going to have to wait til next friday to find out the real details, at the preview event.


Edit: The Ritualist is a Shaman, Period. I dont know about you, but the last time i checked Bards dont talk to spirits and channel things. Just because a Ritualist has skills with the word song in it, i dont think it means they are similar to a bard class.

Смерть
22-07-2006, 19:16
Cool to see these new Profession up on forums ^^.

I think the Paragon will be (sry for the diablo ii reference) a Javazon with Battle crys. I think he will have pretty good defense to keep himself alive. I also think this profession sounds to be pretty well balanced. As far as Guild-Wars classes I see her/him as Warrior + Ranger + Monk.

pratchinghunk
22-07-2006, 19:36
This profession might be awesome for lazy people, like me, who rely on hench most of the time.

Cast shouts -> alt-tab -> read email -> alt-tab -> move/cast more shouts -> alt-tab -> read digg...etc.

Dar Niier
22-07-2006, 20:09
I think something like a Squad Leader.

Seikyo
22-07-2006, 20:10
xD ... I'm thinking a W/P could be somewhat of a great tank ... like the 55monks doing SSdualfarm in UW but stronger o.O ...

mumu

COLDshiver
22-07-2006, 20:18
reading the description, the paragon sound like prot monks to me that use more than just spells, and also like holy warriors

Phoebus
22-07-2006, 20:46
Reading the description, Paragon won't cast spells at all

Servant of Kali
22-07-2006, 22:41
Just because a Ritualist has skills with the word song in it, i dont think it means they are similar to a bard class.

You mean, just because they have so many party buff skills? Isnt that what bard is about? defensive buffs? party-wide? That's what Rt does the best. If you ever played RLord build that is.


reading the description, the paragon sound like prot monks to me

Which part? The shouts reminds of warriors, and more of Ritualist since it's party wide. The only party-wide buff monk has is Aegis.. correct me if im wong but i cant think of any other. Ok heal party, but that's basically heal, not prot.

Might be wrong, but as much as Rt is defensive buff, i see Paragon more as offensive buff. Like orders necro.

Princess eirika
22-07-2006, 23:32
If your gonna quote, might as well the whole post...

Anyway, there is bunch of roles for all the professions to played as, so you cant just say that this class is only for that and such.

Yes I have played a Ritlord build, but that is more for area control then anything else, which is one role of a ritualist.

Just because the rit uses spirits (key word there) as wide range buff, still dosent make it close to a bard... if anything im going to assume the paragon will play a role similar to that.

lavenbb
22-07-2006, 23:36
This profession might be awesome for lazy people, like me, who rely on hench most of the time.

Cast shouts -> alt-tab -> read email -> alt-tab -> move/cast more shouts -> alt-tab -> read digg...etc.

LOL! me too!

I totally enjoy the sort of filler support classes with which you don't really have to be doing a lot of things yet still be an asset to the party, like BiP necs. Then I can spend time chattering around, look at scenaries, day dream etc. Makes fighting more enjoyable for me (not a fighter here).

I just hope they don't.. shout..... Like, wouldn't it be better if they actually sing during battle? Makes them a bit more elegant if you will... But then I can see the appeal in yelling/insulting enemies XD


i see the paragon as the opposite of a mesmer. the mesmer in gw words "manipulates the enemy" and it disables them. the paragon instead of lowering the stats of the enemy boosts the stats of the party. actually it could do some things that decrease the stats of the enemy aswell, like wards and stuff. i dno. but look at the description. its a leader, they can prob draw on that idea, i cant think of any skills like that but if u have any. also it says they are angelic, hello, an angel on the battlefield, i think this cud be quite significant aswell. i wish people wud stop saying theyre just crap warriors cos i think it looks like somehting really original

That's quite intriguing, if the paragon is introduced as an anti-mesmer (being anti hexes and all) then that's reason enough for me to dedicate all my time into making one!

Servant of Kali
22-07-2006, 23:40
Yes I have played a Ritlord build, but that is more for area control then anything else

Which is exactly how i see Paragon with Shouts

the mighty drazgon
22-07-2006, 23:50
i see the paragon as the opposite of a mesmer. the mesmer in gw words "manipulates the enemy" and it disables them. the paragon instead of lowering the stats of the enemy boosts the stats of the party. actually it could do some things that decrease the stats of the enemy aswell, like wards and stuff. i dno. but look at the description. its a leader, they can prob draw on that idea, i cant think of any skills like that but if u have any. also it says they are angelic, hello, an angel on the battlefield, i think this cud be quite significant aswell. i wish people wud stop saying theyre just crap warriors cos i think it looks like somehting really original

Hector
22-07-2006, 23:56
^ I entirely agree, everyone is too fast to summarize it by saying it's just a this/that or a that/this. Seems like a fairely original idea to me, and I can't contain my excitement over them! :grin: A P/M would most likely be a huge asset to a group.

Wuzzman
23-07-2006, 00:14
Paragons are official stance tanks....they was designed that your Paragon stand back, gives buff and let your dev be front line doing all the tanking. Its the perfect pve combo really. Also the Paragon class might hint at different AI system in Nightfall pve. Maybe just maybe all mobs will attack the monk, nuker, or mm sitting in the back.

Buddah
23-07-2006, 00:46
Which is exactly how i see Paragon with Shouts
Here is how I see these new shouts. Little text bubbles over paragons screaming, "Heal me you n00b!" and "I'm 1337!"



Oddly I'm depressed as all hell.

Patccmoi
23-07-2006, 02:24
To all the people saying 'stay in the back and buff your party'... did you read the last gameupdate note?

I'll quote it:



Updated the wording of Shouts to use the phrase "within earshot". This is not a change to how the skills work. It is only meant as a clarification of how large their range is. The size keywords for area-of-effect skills are now:

Adjacent: Melee attack range.
Nearby: One and a half times Adjacent range.
In the Area: Two times Adjacent range.
Within Earshot: Three times Adjacent range.


Most likely, this is to give Paragon shouts the 'Within Earshot' range. Now, note that 'In the Area' = ward size. Paragon shout range will likely be 1.5 times that, which is still not aggro bubble, or if you prefer spell range.

So in order to buff your melee, Paragon will have to be in spell range of their casters, which is not 'in the back', it's actually in the thick of it. Lower range than the casters can have.

I think long range support is what Rt are defensively with their big spirit support and what Order necro are offensively.

It seems to me like Paragon will be a mid-range character, actually in the middle of battle between your front-line and casters, using shouts and spear attacks (likely something like a shortbow range-wise).

Since they're unlikely to be far remote, their AL will likely be something similar to rangers, 70-80.

Personally i really like the class description. It really feels like a 'general' class while the warrior is a 'soldier' class. Warrior is in front dealing the damage, while the general is still in the middle of the fight and dishing it out, but just a little behind, shouting for others.

Ofc we don't know jack from a class description really, we can only make (often bad) assumptions, but i'm pretty eager to see the 2 new classes in the beta. Both interest me quite a bit, and they seem fairly original (yes, you can always relate them and say they're a mix of this and that and that, but unless you want Paragon to fight with eye laser and changing contact lense instead of weapon, you'll always be able to relate the classes to something similar in other fantasy games. Yet, it seems fairly original to me atm)

MrRock
23-07-2006, 02:44
I see paragons similar to the paladins of diablo 2. Auras and such that effect nearby teammates to give bonuses. My idea of a bardish character.

Princess eirika
23-07-2006, 03:11
Im more happy that Anet went orginal and made thier own kind of class.

Even though the concept has been used before, The Mesmer, Ritualist, Paragon and Dervish are pretty unique classes.

wnxsmrt
23-07-2006, 03:39
Here's my 2 cents.

First of all. It is still too early to be making any major assumptions. Because ANet could completely be throwing off. And might be something unpredictable.

But...

My ideas for what it is going to become. First of all. I think it is going to be slightly like a ranger. Around the same armor (70) maybe even lower. But, like a ranger it will use range attacks (Throwing a spear and such). But, Much like the difference between a Hammer and a Sword/Axe to a Warrior. The spear will be much slower then arrows. But hit harder.

Working with that. I could be completely off. It could be like a normal caster who has a wand. But no special skills that make wanding or staving any more powerful. It just allows them to stand in the back.

As for the shouts. To me, It looks like it is going to be something along the line of the opposite of Ritualist. The Ritualist lays spirits to Protect the party. With damage reduction and regeneration coming from the spirits. I think the shouts from the paragon are going to be along the lines of offensive. Much like Order Necro and some of the warrior shouts combined. Im sure some of the major shouts will have effects along the lines of Attack Speed Increase, Damage increase (Such as OoP) and Speed Increase (Such as charge). They may also have shouts that have the same effects of the mesmer stances(Increased Defence to a certain element and such)

As i said. Its definitly to early to be making any major assumptions. But one thing im sure of, A lot of people are very anxious to play the new classes.

halfthought
23-07-2006, 04:10
I was thinking "monk with universal buffs and spears..." not tank with universal buffsa ad spears"

lavenbb
23-07-2006, 04:20
Well the description says their armor are made of metal. That means they should have more than 60AL. I don't think they'll introduce a healer class that has more than 60 AL.

I think they'll be mid line, behind tanks, in front of casters.

Ace Bear
23-07-2006, 05:18
I will take the preview by quotes:

The paragon isn't meant to be a frontline fighter...It's easy to identify paragons on the battlefield, thanks to their angelic look. Even the paragon's armor is saintly in appearance, thanks to the incorporation of ivory and mother of pearl in its materials. And if that weren't enough, a paragon's metal armor usually has the form of wings engraved in it. It's no wonder that the Elonians in the game believe that paragons are guardian angels sent by the gods to serve as champions for the people.
This all tells me not frontline means 70 armor with conditional bonuses(Ranger or Assassin-like).

Instead, the paragon is best suited in a support role as a battle commander, capable of supporting teammates by throwing spears and using verbal chants and shouts that can boost the fighting abilities of those nearby.
Since they are going to be a support role completely their damage capability will be there but they won't have very many skills to do that(maybe 1-2 skills that actually deal damage) mainly just shouts that affect defense and offense. These chants seem something like where in other games you must "channel" for the entire length of the spell during which you can't move or do anything else. Not that they would be casting and could be interupted simply that they couldn't move or do anything while the chant was active but in exchange the chant gives very nice benefits.

And the paragon's angelic nature isn't just aesthetic, as this profession's presence can help teammates resist hexes and other curses.
This is what I was interested in the most. It seems either a skill or possibly primary attribute will help teamates in the area resist hexes. Either they end early or they have a chance not to be applied. I hope so because that would mean people would actually use em heh.

takplayer
23-07-2006, 05:28
If resisting hexes = shorter hex durations, my WW mesmer is going to have a field day.

Ragnarok-
23-07-2006, 10:09
All I know is I'm making a Mo/P as a tribute to Chrono Trigger.

Avatus Culire
23-07-2006, 11:23
I will make a paragon, probably a P/Mo, seeming as you can buff and heal the party or maybe a P/Rt because you can buff and buff and sort of heal the party :afro:

Shi
23-07-2006, 14:27
It may seem that way at first, but you should think about the class's background. It's basically a Guardian Angel, so you think about putting an angel on the field with an army. It will boost the tropps morale, the ayra that radiates from it gives some protection and strength in human species and it can pprotect them from demonic things such as curses or hexes. The initial thought for this character for most will be to make a Pr/W, but I don't think it will work that way. The warrior shouts and paragon shouts most likely won't complement each other. It'll be like when everyone thought Ritualists needed to be Rt/R so they could have access to all the spirits.

Patccmoi
23-07-2006, 16:34
It may seem that way at first, but you should think about the class's background. It's basically a Guardian Angel, so you think about putting an angel on the field with an army. It will boost the tropps morale, the ayra that radiates from it gives some protection and strength in human species and it can pprotect them from demonic things such as curses or hexes. The initial thought for this character for most will be to make a Pr/W, but I don't think it will work that way. The warrior shouts and paragon shouts most likely won't complement each other. It'll be like when everyone thought Ritualists needed to be Rt/R so they could have access to all the spirits.

If its primary attribute is something that boosts shout and chants (longer duration, wider range, something like that), i don't see how it won't complement well with warriors shouts.

Ofc iirc, only 3 warrior shouts really buff your party (Charge!, Shields Up!, Watch Yourself!), the other being self-buff or offensive in nature. But if a Paragon is in the middle of your party shouting, i don't see how Shields Up! wouldn't be a good addition.

Not saying it will necessarily be the best option, we have no idea what its primary attribute and skill list is, but it doesn't seem like warrior shouts won't fit.

arredondo
23-07-2006, 21:04
So which class should have the anti-Paragon skills "Laryngitis" and "Sore Throat"? :laugh:

Nikhera
23-07-2006, 21:42
Actually, I'm hoping there will be enough spear skills to dish out decent damage. Spears are my favourite weapons, so this whole thing with the Paragon has me excited, but I'd like to see it as a versatile class, with equal opportunity to support the party or deal damage if they wish.

Shi
23-07-2006, 22:53
They may also have shouts that have the same effects of the mesmer stances(Increased Defence to a certain element and such)
That Might be a good assumption there. A lot of people were complaining about how the mantras worked. They didn't like that they were stances and thought they should be more like shouts.

hjrrockies
23-07-2006, 23:57
I predict seeing more than a few Mo/P's after release, using the anti-hex abilities and defencive buffs.

Mr Panda
23-07-2006, 23:58
I'm thinking the Paragon will be very much a cleric class: very supportive, capable if not spectacular on its own, and while your group can survive without a Paragon in the sense it likely cant without a monk, (debatable, true, but not here) I think the buffs a Paragon will add to the party will make them a very much wanted class.

I'm also considering Pa/W (Officially now known as Paws :p:) to mix Paragon buffs with Tactics shouts. Watch Yourself!. ftw.


So which class should have the anti-Paragon skills "Laryngitis" and "Sore Throat"? :laugh:

Warriors will get a new skill: "Put a Sock in It!". Touched Paragon is unable to make any noise for 30 seconds.

Lais Irideika
24-07-2006, 00:02
So which class should have the anti-Paragon skills "Laryngitis" and "Sore Throat"? :laugh:
:laughing: :laughing:

Ok, that's funny! (I know my post brings nothing to the table, but I had to give a few kudos to this one...) :flowers:

Look Alive
24-07-2006, 02:29
Ahem, how can you draw the line to diablo with a Javazon with battlecrys without thinking Auradin? Its perfect! Instead of using shouts, it could me more like a mobile warder or ritualist. Staying close to the paragon gives you certain advantages, such as likelyness to crit, +2 damage for each melee attack, all mantras lasts 50% longer, hexes takes longer to cast on you, everyone nearby gain 10% more effect from healing, all enemies in melee range moves 66% slower[elite :P ], all party members in the area gain +10 armor against elemental damage or +40 health or whatever. This is the perfect support class

alchemistsan
24-07-2006, 04:34
Elite: Karaoke Box
Next 5 Shouts cannot be interrupt & cannot be silence

Elite: Amplified Speaker
In 20 seconds, All shouts last 20% longer

The Skilled name is just for joking purposes

Dulin
24-07-2006, 08:32
The Paragon does sound like it could be mainly a party-buff class. If so, I look forward to making this my ranger's new secondary. R/Mo just doesn't seem to have the support capacity I had hoped it would, but a secondary with access to lots of non-spell AoE/party buff skills would be wonderful.

scamPOR
24-07-2006, 08:58
All I know is if paragons are as boring as rits... I'm going to cry.

lavenbb
24-07-2006, 10:38
All I know is if paragons are as boring as rits... I'm going to cry.

You picked the wrong class, supporting isn't for you :P

Heath Laron
24-07-2006, 16:28
So which class should have the anti-Paragon skills "Laryngitis" and "Sore Throat"? :laugh:
Reintroduce the condition "silence"? :P

Whenever you have silence on you, you are unable to execute any shout skills. Actually, that's a little too harsh.

My poor Mesmer though... he hopes he gets some anti-shout skills! (Although Blackout would still work.)

Hush! (Domination magic ftw!)
10E, 2 cast, 20 recharge.
For 5...15 seconds, target's shouts only affect adjacent party members.

Therese Fireside
24-07-2006, 19:25
You know, when I first red about the Paragon I instantly thought P/W for the warrior shorts. But, I have to say, I've taken a ritualist all the way through factions without ever loosing a single mission, once I got past vizunah sqaure of coarse, and I have to say the power of the support rit is unparalled; and its a blast to play too. I think a Pragon/Rit would be something you wouldn't want to sneeze at. That said, I'd like to really get a feel for the pure Paragon by itself before I draw anymore conclusions as to what would best compliment it because my first impressions with the Rit were way, way off. I just had to learn how to take on a different role other than, Attack target, Kill target, Aquire new target, Kill new target....

Chemical Ali
24-07-2006, 23:14
Throwing Spears, maybe a mid range weapon? That would compliment the Paragon nicely since that's about where it should be anyway.

You would be able to have Warriors frontline, Paragons midline, Monks and Mesmers backline, and Rits superbackline (sry for leaving a few classes out lol).

Also, I have always felt that some of the Warrior's tactics shouts were a bit subpar, but that's just me.

arredondo
24-07-2006, 23:56
Reintroduce the condition "silence"? :P

Whenever you have silence on you, you are unable to execute any shout skills. Actually, that's a little too harsh.

My poor Mesmer though... he hopes he gets some anti-shout skills! (Although Blackout would still work.)

Hush! (Domination magic ftw!)
10E, 2 cast, 20 recharge.
For 5...15 seconds, target's shouts only affect adjacent party members.


How about this one?


STFU! (Uber-Elite Spell) For 1-3 days, all shouters on all servers will be unable to say a damn thing.

25E, 1 sec. cast, 3 month recharge.

Ravendove786
25-07-2006, 00:57
There's nothing as much fun as pointless speculation :)
Just 4 days to go and we'll see, in the meantime, let's keep speculating, hehe.
It seems that some kind of voice buff's going to be the paragon's "thing".

My guess (for the little it's worth) for the 4 skill lines are something like-
Charisma (Primary) - Maybe each point = 1% boost to nearby allies AL. I'm hoping not just a shout range/duration increase, though that might be useful for Wa or Ra secondaries.
Spear Mastery - spear attack skills
Guardian Angel stuff - defensive buffs
Avenging Angel stuff - offensive buffs

Looking forward to seeing how they work this class. Cos I'm curious about several things.

1) How will they protect party from hexes? By shouts?? Perhaps a holy aura would make more sense. And this'll be the Paragon's "thing" instead...
2) If there are maintained chants, a bit like a bard, as suggested, then that's going to leave the skill bar pretty empty - Pa can't exactly sing several tunes at once. Unless they have shortish duration and longish recharge. "I'm sick of singing that. I wanna sing something else for a bit!" Hmmm...??
3) But if it's more akin to the shouts already in the game, that's going to make most Pa skills nigh on uninterruptible.

I also agree that spears will probably be a mid range weapon.

Oh well, wait and see. Gonna delete my monk just so i'll have space for a PvP character this weekend :)

STARSBarry
25-07-2006, 01:18
Edit: The Ritualist is a Shaman, Period. I dont know about you, but the last time i checked Bards dont talk to spirits and channel things. Just because a Ritualist has skills with the word song in it, i dont think it means they are similar to a bard class.

just to point out the modern day shamen class aka WoW is actuey based on the DnD bard style combat and team support. So he is techniquely correct

Servant of Kali
25-07-2006, 02:14
All I know is if paragons are as boring as rits... I'm going to cry.

What are you talking about, Rits own. I have been playing mine since i got factions, almost all the time. Need a bit of break now, so i switched to Ranger again. I understand that tastes differ of course... but dont make it sound like everyone thinks Rt is boring :)


So... Paragon wielding Polearms.. interesting.

keydet
25-07-2006, 11:33
The Paragon does sound like it could be mainly a party-buff class. If so, I look forward to making this my ranger's new secondary. R/Mo just doesn't seem to have the support capacity I had hoped it would, but a secondary with access to lots of non-spell AoE/party buff skills would be wonderful.


Great minds think alike. I was also thinking that a longbow/party-buffing character would suite my play style nicely. And of course the real benefit of sticking with a ranger primary... PANTS! Enough with the men in skirts already! Especially those transvestite looking ritualists. :tongue:

I just wish I had never started my ritualist. He doesn't have the big hair, but the animations and armors... blech. Probably going to spend an hour just unloading my mule so I can delete him and start one of the new professions.

Findariel
25-07-2006, 12:48
More a tactical ranger, using javelins (with/without shield?) I think the armour will be 60-70 as well.

Just a few days and we'll know a lot more .....

Frostbone
25-07-2006, 14:53
Actually Rt is more of a bard class. At first glance no, but ever looked at spirits names ? "...song" "...song". :)

Paragon is more like ranger/orders-necro to me than a warrior.

No no, I really disagree. The Rt. is far from a bard.
Rt. equals more of a shaman, summoning spirits from the netherworld.

The paragon is close to fill the bard-role, like the bard in Baldur's Gate.

rangerjon
26-07-2006, 05:20
well if the spears can hit as much as bows (at least) then this class would seem interesting.

decent dmg, with some nice shout/chant buffs, this seems to me like a tactics ranger, only with super tactics skills

EDIT: After looking at the pictures of the paragon once more, I had this wild idea that they look like the white mantle, wasn't justiciar hablion's armor white/gold?