(Merged) Paragon Attributes

[Findariel]

PRIMARY: Leadership
You gain 1 Energy for each ally affected by one of your Shouts or Chants (maximum 1 Energy for every 3 ranks).

Spear Mastery
Spear Mastery increases the damage you do with spears and your chance to inflict a critical hit when using a spear. Many skills, especially spear attack skills, become more effective with higher Spear Mastery.

Command
No inherent effect. Many Paragon skills, especially those that protect your allies or increase your tactical position on the battlefield, become more effective with higher Command.

Motivation
No inherent effect. Many Paragon skills, especially those related to Energy management or that inspire your allies, become more effective with higher Motivation.

Discuss ...

[K Fonta]

Not confirmed? They're on guildwars.com.

http://www.guildwars.com/events/ingame/gwn-pvppreview.php

[Erasculio]

Duh, never mind, it has been fixed. I like the attributes - they show the Paragon as both a support character and as an offensive one.

Erasculio

[Findariel]

Hahaha you´re right! And I couldn´t find it! ;)

Well since most agree that Spear Mastery isn't the Primary Attribute but Leadership, some thoughts:


PRIMARY: Leadership
You gain 1 Energy for each ally affected by one of your Shouts or Chants (maximum 1 Energy for every 3 ranks).

Shouts: Shouts thus far are only used by warriors. Strength shouts belong to a warrior's primary so are rather useless for Paragons. But the tactics ones are useful; in a 8 person party the 5e shouts could easily get you more energy than it costs: at rank 12 leadership it´s 4e for each party member! And even the shouts only affacting 1 member (yourself) stil get you 4e back.

So with +4e for each ally, shouts actually work as energy management!
Use "Charge!" on a 8 player party at leadership 12 gains you a whopping 32 energy!

Note that Paragons use spears and that they will very likely get you adrenaline as well.
___________________________
Party affecting Tactics Shouts:

"Charge!" {E}[5e/0/20]
For 5..10 seconds, all allies in the area move 25% faster.

"Retreat!" [5e/0/20]
If there are any dead allies in the area, your party moves 33% faster for 5..10 seconds.

"Shields Up!" [10e/0/30]
For 8..18 seconds, you and all allies in the area gain 50 armor against piercing damage and 50% chance to block incoming projectile attacks.

"Watch Yourself!" [4a/0/0]
Party members near you gain +20 armor For 5..10 seconds.

[Princess eirika]

Wow, if you do combine some shouts with a paragon, they really can be a "battle commander" of sorts. I like this new playstyle, im really curious about the skills they have even more.

[Patccmoi]

Duh, never mind, it has been fixed. I like the attributes - they show the Paragon as both a support character and as an offensive one.

Erasculio

Currently i see Spear Mastery as Primary Attribute on the site... considering it makes no sense, i guess they'll fix it or i have some weird cache trouble (i tried emptying it but doesn't change).

Attributes are pretty much what i expected. I wonder if Motivation will help ALLIES energy management. If it does, it could be really awesome.

I hoped one of them would be concentrated on helping the offense of allies, and maybe it's included in there but the attribute line description doesn't show it.

I wonder what they mean by 'tactical position on the battlefield'? I just don't see how a skill can affect that!

I hope primary attributes has some good skills in it. Currently it might be good, but i'm not a big fan of it at first sight considering the low max energy you can gain, unless there is some shouts you spam every few seconds or so (i could see it useful with something like Watch Yourself! that is adrenaline based to boost your energy). I also don't really like how you gain no benefit from it except at levels 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, but if there's enough skills in there i guess it makes up for it. Cause currently i kinda wonder why you'd want that over 9, though it's hard to guess without seeing the skill set. Ah well! It's soon enough!


EDIT: Findariel, you misread the description of Leadership. It's 1E PER ally, what raises is the TOTAL maximum of energy. So at level 9 Leadership, even if you're around 8 allies, you would gain 3E after using a shout. I think we can all agree that if you could gain 32E from using a shout it would be flatout stupid, there would be easy ways to have infinite energy from your primary attribute only.

What i wonder though is if spirits, pets, minions count as allies in this case. I think they should, but then again it says allies AFFECTED by your shouts or chants. Can spirits be affected by shouts, or can't they just like they can't be for enchantments? I guess pets and minions will count but not spirits. Maybe for chants they will, who knows!

As for warrior shouts being used with Paragon... likely, but honestly i think that Paragon will have more than their load of Shouts, possibly many more than warriors currently have to affect the party!

[duward]

uhm they just changed it onthe site it now reads ... Spearmastery :primary atribute .. :)

[Findariel]

EDIT: Findariel, you misread the description of Leadership. It's 1E PER ally, what raises is the TOTAL maximum of energy. So at level 9 Leadership, even if you're around 8 allies, you would gain 3E after using a shout. I think we can all agree that if you could gain 32E from using a shout it would be flatout stupid, there would be easy ways to have infinite energy from your primary attribute only.
I wonder about that. Since there's always 1 ally affected (you), why should it say "for each ally" and not "You gain 1 energy for every 3 ranks in leadership whenever you use a shout"


You gain 1 Energy for each ally affected by one of your Shouts or Chants (maximum 1 Energy for every 3 ranks).

It seems that the new classes are very energy efficient. Look at the Dervish:


Mysticism (PRIMARY ATTRIBUTE)
Whenever an Enchantment ends, you gain 3 Health for each rank of Mysticism and 1 Energy for every 2 ranks of Mysticism.
At Mysticism 16, you get 8 energy (and 48 health) for each enchantment that ends, right? Enchantments on you? So you can spam RoF and Guardian (both 5e, 2 recharge) and get a net +3 energy each time you cast it and it ends?
And it doesn't even say enchantments on you.

I don't know ... let's see how it turns out.

[Art]

I'm hoping for a fast casting paragonic elementalist necro dervi-monk with these energy levels!

-Art

[Erasculio]

I wonder about that. Since there's always 1 ally affected (you), why should it say "for each ally" and not "You gain 1 energy for every 3 ranks in leadership whenever you use a shout"
I think that's because it still depends of how many people are around you. So, say,

Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself: 1 energy (it's only 1 ally, hence one energy)

Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself and 3 allies: 4 energy (one per ally)

Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself and 7 allies: 4 energy (since the maximum is 1 per 3 ranks in Leadership - with 12, you can get a maximum of 4 energy points)

I think that's how it works.

Erasculio

[Patccmoi]

I think that's because it still depends of how many people are around you. So, say,

Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself: 1 energy (it's only 1 ally, hence one energy)

Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself and 3 allies: 4 energy (one per ally)

Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself and 7 allies: 4 energy (since the maximum is 1 per 3 ranks in Leadership - with 12, you can get a maximum of 4 energy points)

I think that's how it works.

Erasculio

yup, that's how i see it too. Just the same as for something like boon-signet, you gain 2E per enchant on target, but with a max of 2..6E (i might be off on stats, i never use it hehe, just that this is how it works and it seems like the same description here).

[Findariel]

I think that's because it still depends of how many people are around you. So, say,
Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself: 1 energy (it's only 1 ally, hence one energy)
Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself and 3 allies: 4 energy (one per ally)
Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself and 7 allies: 4 energy (since the maximum is 1 per 3 ranks in Leadership - with 12, you can get a maximum of 4 energy points)
I think that's how it works.
Erasculio
Hmm .. unless there are some cheap and quick recharging shouts for them, it plain sucks compared to soul reaping, then >.<

I hope Motivation isn't going to be a 2nd Inspiration line, then .. poor Paragons :cry:

[nanothegreat]

And the way leadership works kind of has built in anti-farming function. If you're on your own, you only get 1 energy back. I'm sure there will be other ways to gain energy, but any solo paragon won't get any use out of leadership above 3 (not including related skills).

[Erasculio]

Hmm .. unless there are some cheap and quick recharging shouts for them, it plain sucks compared to soul reaping, then >.<

Keep in mind that Leadership also works on chants, though, and we don't know how those work. If they are like Bard's songs, as many have guessed, they'll likely have a short recharge anyway.

Erasculio

[Смерть]

Heh, (jokingly) now monks (not all monks) that can't manage thier engergy have both 1) a battery necro to supply them energy and 2) a paragon to help them conserve even that energy.

[Seyfert]

a whole line of shouts, are they going to add "sore throat" as a new kind of exhaustion for paragons?

[Xunlai Agent]

Keep in mind that Leadership also works on chants, though, and we don't know how those work. If they are like Bard's songs, as many have guessed, they'll likely have a short recharge anyway.

Erasculio
I think Erasculio is pretty much on the money and I doubt it will be a second inspiration line (Inspiration will be prolly stay unique in it's extreme usefulness :tongue: ). I doubt it will be worse than soulreaping considering soulreaping is conditional to your enviroment and has no energy generating skills....
I think there will be new game mechanics so the comparison so early on may be a bit off :huh:

[t lo]

a whole line of shouts, are they going to add "sore throat" as a new kind of exhaustion for paragons?

Nah, the paragons will just fight anime-style, where everything is either screamed at the top of the throat or whispered. :)

(no offense to us anime fans intended, of course)

[Patccmoi]

And the way leadership works kind of has built in anti-farming function. If you're on your own, you only get 1 energy back. I'm sure there will be other ways to gain energy, but any solo paragon won't get any use out of leadership above 3 (not including related skills).

That's why i said i hope Leadership has some good skills. It does seem limited as a primary attribute.

As for Paragon and soloing, well it's not like a solo char really wants to spam party buffs anyway, they usually are weaker than self buffs! I'm sure Paragons will have some options, otherwise they'll just have to use their secondary.

But i think you gotta accept when making a Paragon that the class is basically designed as a battle leader for a team, and that soloing just isn't its purpose.

[Bozo69PD]

Well If they actually make leadership not a primary then that will make W/P pretty crazy, considering warriors have such a low mp pool. I would use fear me and watch yourself then spam thrill of victory and such.

[The Harlequin]

Spear Mastery as Primary seems like a typo. Skills with inherent effects are primaries, not secondaries, even if they're kinda lousy. /coughfastcastingcough

[thedrjay]

I think that's because it still depends of how many people are around you. So, say,

Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself: 1 energy (it's only 1 ally, hence one energy)

Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself and 3 allies: 4 energy (one per ally)

Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself and 7 allies: 4 energy (since the maximum is 1 per 3 ranks in Leadership - with 12, you can get a maximum of 4 energy points)

I think that's how it works.

Erasculio

From the GW site:

Leadership
You gain 1 Energy for each ally affected by one of your Shouts or Chants (maximum 1 Energy for every 3 ranks).

Paragon with Leadership 12, wouldn't you gain 4 energy if only 1 ally (yourself is affected)

Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself and 3 allies: 4 energy (one per ally) * 4 allies = 16 energy

Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself and 7 allies: 4 energy (since the maximum is 1 per 3 ranks in Leadership - with 12, you can get a maximum of 4 energy points) 7 allies * 4 energy from the leadership attribute = 28 energy

Or am I misreading it?

[MaximumSquid]

thedrjay: it's one energy per allie as I'm reading it.

Which means that if you have rank 15 then you could get a maximum of 5 energy for using a shout / chant. . . if it hits everyone that is.

[Ranger Nietzsche]

YAY::: It says "ally" that means pets too, since BMs have soooo soooo many shouts (and in the way it works pet attacks are sort of shouts too, it might glitch into working) oh the energy for a BM.

[Phoebus]

Hmm .. unless there are some cheap and quick recharging shouts for them, it plain sucks compared to soul reaping, then >.<

I hope Motivation isn't going to be a 2nd Inspiration line, then .. poor Paragons :cry:
No, what that means is 5 energy shouts & chants will be free with 15 leadership and 4+ allies in hearing range, and 10 energy shouts & chants will have their cost halved. Very useful if Paragons have alot of shouts & chants.

And Spear Mastery could very well be a primary attribute. (Hmm, Expertise, maybe not.)


YAY::: It says "ally" that means pets too, since BMs have soooo soooo many shouts (and in the way it works pet attacks are sort of shouts too, it might glitch into working) oh the energy for a BM.
That would require lots of Beast Mastery, Expertise and Leadership to work.

[Clobimon]

Hmmm... maybe Spear Mastery is not incorrectly listed as primary. Perhaps their intention is for only Paragons to use spears. The other three attributes are all tied together in assisting/commanding the team. With these all non-primary, using Paragon as a secondary still allows one to be an effective commander. /shrug

I don't think this would bother me much. If I use Paragon secondary I probably wouldn't put many points into spear chuckin' anyway. As a warrior, for example, you'd probably get the same "remarks" made to you as you would if you stood back by the monks and wanded everything, never using a melee weapon.

[Naren]

I think it would be a real shame if Spears were limited to primary Paragons only... I hope that this is a typo.

[Princess eirika]

It most likely is, Leadership dosent look like an normal attibute to me, and look at all the other masterys, swords, hammers, axe, bows, daggers...their not primaries.

[Clobimon]

It's been fixed on the official site now. Leadership is primary

I guess I can do some spear chuckin' with Paragon secondary afterall :grin:

[ShiningDrLight]

Man, i'm glad they changed it to Primary...because I was going WTF?

[crying wolf]

uhm they just changed it onthe site it now reads ... Spearmastery :primary atribute .. :)

No it doesn't, leadership is primary. And why would the weapon that they use be the primary? That would make NO sense at all. Rangers don't ahve marksmanship as their primary, and warriors have strentgh as theirs. They don't want to limit their weapons to the primary class.

Also, I can see some skills, like "watch yourself", being spammed for constant energy by paragons. There is definitely going to be a problem with paragons energy management. They will literally have tons of energy. I wonder if this is in reply to all those e-denial builds out there. To be honest, we could use it. E-denial pwns anyone that uses energy. So maybe it is overpowered in order to adress another balance issue that cannot be fixed with a nerf.

The dervish primary looks very powerful too imo. It doesn't say enchantments on you. So basically that means everytime someone uses an enchantment like RoF, he's going to get energy very fast. Dervish=counter to enchantment removal?

I can't really say whether or not these two are overpowered in terms of energy due to the fact that I haven't seen how much their skills cost. Oh, and let's hope that paragons cannot use adrenaline. If they can get such good energy with their primary, they don't need adrenaline as a form of energy management.

[CanthanPeasant]

Going a little off-topic, now that we know the Paragon has an attrib which gives energy management benefits, how will this affect the armor attribs? Given that all the spellcaster profs have 2 pieces of armor with Energy Recovery + 1, will the Paragon be like the Ranger with only one armor piece with Energy Recovery or none at all (like the Warrior)?

[Princess eirika]

Im curious about that as well. Im thinking maybe a base armor rating of 70.

They dont look very squishy to me, and their armor looks like maybe they might wear some steel.

I was thinking, maybe 3 energy regen? and 25 energy? I have no idea...like a ranger though. They might have a typical spellcaster, or maybe different like the assassin who has a 25/4.

[Erasculio]

Going a little off-topic, now that we know the Paragon has an attrib which gives energy management benefits, how will this affect the armor attribs?
Keep in mind that the Assassin also has a Primary Attribute that helps with energy, and still has +4 energy regeneration.

I believe it depends if the spears are one handed or two handed, but considering how the Paragon relies on Shouts and Chants, I believe he will either use Adrenaline, or have caster-like energy (total, regeneration, or both).

Erasculio

[zapper]

From the GW site:

Leadership
You gain 1 Energy for each ally affected by one of your Shouts or Chants (maximum 1 Energy for every 3 ranks).

Paragon with Leadership 12, wouldn't you gain 4 energy if only 1 ally (yourself is affected)

Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself and 3 allies: 4 energy (one per ally) * 4 allies = 16 energy

Paragon with 12 Leadership uses a shout on himself and 7 allies: 4 energy (since the maximum is 1 per 3 ranks in Leadership - with 12, you can get a maximum of 4 energy points) 7 allies * 4 energy from the leadership attribute = 28 energy

Or am I misreading it?

I believe you are correct the other people are wrong.
You gain 1 Energy for each ally affected by one of your Shouts or Chants (maximum 1 Energy for every 3 ranks). 12/3 = 4 like you said and the other guy who said no way. "Well I thought same thing when they said Assassins would get 4 energy regen and 1% critical for every rank + 1 energy for every critical they hit you with and duel wield, that's way too powerful yet now I think they aren't over powered rather weak." Yeah, If warrior shouts do count from tactic lines you get like <charge,Shields up> to give you a huge energy boost back thats only if your warrior shouts count or they could make shouts only from that line count and be like 15 mana, and if your group doesn't stays together and they drift apart your only going to get like 8 energy back. Hell most of time I shout in PvP for <charge, extra> only 1-2 people hear me. This at least forces you together and may make my Elmentalist useful as AoE at same time. If you be lucky and you got 8 man team everyone hears you
8 x 4 = 32 - (spell cost) = ~25 which fill up your bar. I can see why they nerfed pets in pvp now. You got 8 + 8 like necros (blood/pet builds) you have 16 potental allies. If they use word Allies and not team mates this may be too powerful they probably should get rid of allies and only make it team mates. I still hate when they nerf the CORE game to add in some new classes they did it to WARRIOR when assassins came into being and even changed a few monk spells and axed necros minnons after ritualist arrived.

At same time I like the way they look but they probably give them only 2 energy bars which will make them just different kind of warriors with stances which really doesn't help when they probably cap your energy at 20 and you have 30 energy coming in you have to get a offhand. Of course this is all speculation but I don't see the point in playing the class if they dumb down the energy to two bars. Yet this toon probably be so depended on ALLIES you could never SOLO or play it without it's secondary class.

Another Point is most shouts as of now are like 5-10 mana at most I could cast and recast all my shouts from 4 reg class/WARRIOR class and do it over and over again but with a WARRIOR/x I can barely do 2 shouts and I am out of mana and shouts really are rather pathetic for what you have to give up mana and pretty much all your FUN of playing just to do something for the armor/speed or whatever that a NECRO can just ignore touch kill you and conditions / hexes are what are the only things that seem to kill people anyways direct damage is pretty worthless in every pvp match I been in thousands only the ODD E will get some spell off on you once in a while, warriors don't kill any of my toons unless I am almost dead or fighting something else and they stumble apon me and think they wiped me yet I was totally ignoring them to kill something really important like a monk or AI.

[neoflame]

I don't see how Leadership is confusing at all. You gain 1 energy for each affected ally - if you affect just yourself, that's theoretically 1 energy; if you affect yourself and a teammate, that's theoretically 2 energy; if you affect your party of 8, your Guild Lord, 2 bodyguards, 4 archers, and 10 Bone Fiends that's theoretically 25 energy. However, if you have 3-5 Leadership you will only gain 1 energy in each case because there's a cap. You don't expect Boon Signet to give you 6 energy when there's a single enchantment on your target, do you?

[windforcex]

Hmm .. unless there are some cheap and quick recharging shouts for them, it plain sucks compared to soul reaping, then >.<

I hope Motivation isn't going to be a 2nd Inspiration line, then .. poor Paragons :cry:

Just "watch yourself" is a good enough reason to have leadership. It recharges very fast and it is a very useful thing by itself. If it stays in this way, I bet u will see a ton of pa/w s spamming "watch yourself".

[zapper]

I don't see how Leadership is confusing at all. You gain 1 energy for each affected ally - if you affect just yourself, that's theoretically 1 energy; if you affect yourself and a teammate, that's theoretically 2 energy; if you affect your party of 8, your Guild Lord, 2 bodyguards, 4 archers, and 10 Bone Fiends that's theoretically 25 energy. However, if you have 3-5 Leadership you will only gain 1 energy in each case because there's a cap. You don't expect Boon Signet to give you 6 energy when there's a single enchantment on your target, do you?
So your saying you believe the cap is what? You didn't specify? I assume the cap would be your energy storage. I really don't get why you assume they have a cap because of a boon signet.

First of all a spell isn't a primary and you cast a monk spell your DIVINE PASSIVELY gives you a + health for every rank which from what I read is exactly same thing.
<For each rank of Divine Favor, allies are healed for X health whenever you cast Monk spells on them.>

Also SOUL Reaving you die you get energy for every rank and have ZERO cap it just keeps comming after each death.

So what's the difference in at attribute 12 saying we are wrong in assuming they are going to get 4 energy for every shout that they cast that allies hear? Why would you assume in your statement that there is a cap? If they give Ps energy pool similar to warriors energy reserve only a typical W of ~25 energy reserve without staffs/offhands even with 50 energy return really won't matter unless you have a big energy reserve for that returning energy. A player could keep spamming shouts that people can hear but if you pvp enough with random people they will more than likely just run off doing whatever they want to no matter what you tell them about benifits you be getting only 4-8 energy back at most and even best shouts that warrior has rarely change an outcome of a match or even be heard. It's like SOUL R. it's ok in PvP but it's 10x better in PvE which is what this attribute may be like after they done their weekend beta test another word for NERF it after data comes in. And if you keep there energy reserve like WARRIORs you be unable to really cast SPELLS from the returning energy even if your pool is 25 energy you cast ONE elmentalist spell you be done and you couldn't cast a shout to get more energy because you be spent. Have you ever seen a full casting W/Elmentalist I not seen a good one only attempts. Well I am not trying to flame you guys I am just passionate and want to play it now rather than this weekend good thing they didn't tell me about this a few months ago.

[neoflame]

So your saying you believe the cap is what? You didn't specify? I assume the cap would be your energy storage. I really don't get why you assume they have a cap because of a boon signet.

Boon Signet: ...For each enchantment on that ally, you gain 2 energy (maximum 1..6).

Leadership: You gain 1 Energy for each ally affected by one of your Shouts or Chants (maximum 1 Energy for every 3 ranks).
Learn to read.

[cinders]

From the GW site (http://www.guildwars.com/events/ingame/gwn-pvppreview.php):

Paragon Attributes

Leadership (PRIMARY ATTRIBUTE)

You gain 1 Energy for each ally affected by one of your Shouts or Chants (maximum 1 Energy for every 3 ranks).

Spear Mastery

Spear Mastery increases the damage you do with spears and your chance to inflict a critical hit when using a spear. Many skills, especially spear attack skills, become more effective with higher Spear Mastery.

Command

No inherent effect. Many Paragon skills, especially those that protect your allies or increase your tactical position on the battlefield, become more effective with higher Command.

Motivation

No inherent effect. Many Paragon skills, especially those related to Energy management or that inspire your allies, become more effective with higher Motivation.


What is interesting is that Leadership is an energy skill. It seems like a Necro could be a more effective Paragon than a Paragon, if it wasn't for runes. I am very interested to know how Paragon abilities work with Minions.

[Harshateja]

Yup, its pretty much the opposite of the soul reaping. That said, yea I could see a new form of mm coming along with a pa/n running Leadership for energy, death magic for minions, and command for protection (and maybe healing...we'll find out friday).

[lavenbb]

Yup, its pretty much the opposite of the soul reaping. That said, yea I could see a new form of mm coming along with a pa/n running Leadership for energy, death magic for minions, and command for protection (and maybe healing...we'll find out friday).


Aside from you reversing the OP's point :wink: , I don't think leadership by itself will provide enough energy for a full minion master build, keep in mind that all the minion skills take 15 - 25 energy to cast, it is a very energy intensive class.

While leadership's conditional is less restrictive than soul reaping, it also provides a lot less energy in comparison..

[Tiamont]

Leadership might actualy be better than soul reaping if minions and pets count for leadership.

[Azgalon]

5 Energy per Ally affected at Leadership 15 then?

[Harshateja]

This doesn't look right to me. After looking at leadership again, it looks like possibly the worst primary attribute out there. It says a maximum of 1 energy for every 3 ranks. That means at level 16, you can only gain a maximum of 5.333 energy, regardless of the number of allies around you. Maybe I read it wrong but...

There better be some 0 mana chants or shouts...

[lifeinthefridge]

btw there was an error on there site that said spear mastery was the primary attribute but it was no fixed for those confused by other threads

[MrRock]

I have a bit of a split going on here. I'm excited to see what the attributes are going to be, however, I think I'm a bit dissapointed to see how they are working. I guess I can't make a final judgement until Friday. I was very much looking forward to this new class.

Sorry for any typos, the kitten is playing with the screen and I cant see what I'm typing.

[Aiiane]

This doesn't look right to me. After looking at leadership again, it looks like possibly the worst primary attribute out there. It says a maximum of 1 energy for every 3 ranks. That means at level 16, you can only gain a maximum of 5.333 energy, regardless of the number of allies around you. Maybe I read it wrong but...

There better be some 0 mana chants or shouts...

Why should there be 0 energy chants/shouts? The point of Soul Reaping was that it wasn't based on skill use, so it gave a certain amount of energy. Compare leadership more to Expertise - gives effectively an energy boost (although not a net positive change in energy) each time you use a skill. 15 Leadership, with 5 allies in the area, would be the equivalent of 100% expertise on any 5e chant or shout. There's no need for it to be 200% expertise or more.

[Zaxares]

Besides, I think you can expect to see some sort of elite Paragon skill that does something like:

"For X seconds, all of your shouts/chants cost 5 less energy (minimum 1 energy)."

[cinders]

This doesn't look right to me. After looking at leadership again, it looks like possibly the worst primary attribute out there. It says a maximum of 1 energy for every 3 ranks. That means at level 16, you can only gain a maximum of 5.333 energy, regardless of the number of allies around you. Maybe I read it wrong but...

There better be some 0 mana chants or shouts...


I read it the same way you did, which got me thinking a N/Pa would work better.

[lavenbb]

This doesn't look right to me. After looking at leadership again, it looks like possibly the worst primary attribute out there. It says a maximum of 1 energy for every 3 ranks. That means at level 16, you can only gain a maximum of 5.333 energy, regardless of the number of allies around you. Maybe I read it wrong but...

There better be some 0 mana chants or shouts...


It does look very bad.. considering this probably is the only primary attribute that actually limits your character.

In order for it to work, you have to 1) invest heavily on the attribute, and 2) take care to affect as many people as possible with each shout.

And I thought primary attributes couldn't get worse than spawning power..


But then again, this is just speculation, maybe.. their skills really shine... Otherwise, they'll stay as E or N's secondary. That's a shame.. I liked their armor =/

[LagunaCid]

Are you people mad? Who woudnt like having "you get (3...15) MP" on all of your shouts?

[lavenbb]

Are you people mad? Who woudnt like having "you get (3...15) MP" on all of your shouts?


That is unlikely to happen because the (maximum X amount) clause had always been used to refer to "maximum per trigger" in GW's history, consistently.

[Patccmoi]

That is unlikely to happen because the (maximum X amount) clause had always been used to refer to "maximum per trigger" in GW's history, consistently.

Ya, i really don't understand how people confuse it. It's pretty clear and matches exactly the description of skills already working this way (Boon Signet... and for damage you have the same wording with 'damage' instead of energy for Enraged Lunge, Blades of Steel, etc.)

I mean, come on, it's written you gain 1 energy per ally. Not 'you gain 1 energy per ally affected every 3 level'. The MAX raises.

Currently, it does seem like a bad attribute, but then again it depends. We don't know yet the inner working of the class. For example, if they have some adrenaline shouts (not likely imo though), it can be great. If they have many 5E, spammable shout/chants, it's actually very good. If they have shouts that are more akin Shields Up! (10E, long recharge), it's horrible because Expertise lowers the energy cost much more with lower investment. The one thing i don't really like about it though is that currently, unless there is many good skills in the line, there is no reason to ever put the attribute at anything but 3-6-9-12-15. There is just no use to the points in between, which seems kinda bad to me.

And plz, forget the idea that you can get 5E per ally affected. Just think about it 2 seconds. It makes no sense at all. Without even using an elite energy management, a Paragon could use any kind of shout to fill his full energy bar at any time. That's incredible abuse for secondaries (you could have a Paragon throwing Panic and covering it with Conjure Nightmare all over the place...) They would need to make all his shouts 25E to attempt to balance something like that, making them unusable for /P. It's just retarded. Not to mention this is NOT what the description says!

[Egberto]

I can really see my Paragon having 15 Leadership, gaining adrenaline through spear attacks (hope that will be possible) and shouting Watch Yourself for a fast and steady stream of +5e boosts, fuelling all the other nice shouts and chants :grin:

[DutchSmurf]

There better be some good skills in the Leadership line, else I don't think it has much use. Since the area limits the use for a team. And if I use it, don't think I will ever raise it further then 8+1(minor rune) for a max gain of 9 energy. Which is 1 more then you need in a team of 8. Atleast energy shouldn't be a problem on the Paragon. Not if you add Motivation:
No inherent effect. Many Paragon skills, especially those related to Energy management or that inspire your allies, become more effective with higher Motivation.

I really wonder why Paragons need that much energy managment, must be some spells with a really high energy cost there. Or maybe he just doesn't have much energy to start with.

[Egberto]

... And if I use it, don't think I will ever raise it further then 8+1(minor rune) for a max gain of 9 energy. ...

I think that Leadership 9 will only give you a max of 3 energy per shout/chant and not nine. The description reads: (maximum 1 Energy for every 3 ranks).

[DutchSmurf]

I think that Leadership 9 will only give you a max of 3 energy per shout/chant and not nine. The description reads: (maximum 1 Energy for every 3 ranks).

I know, I can't read. Makes it even less usefull then I thought. And I already thought it was useless.

[li levac]

The attribute is ok, what will make or break this profession as a primary will be the skill in the attribute.

If they put some significant boosting skills in there you might see a serious use of paragon, otherwise people will use other primaries and have the secondary as paragon.

[Egberto]

I think I read on the official pages that Paragons are goin to use shields. Now I wonder which of the attributes will be the prerequisite for them? :huh: Since they changed the way shields work in one of the recent updates, Paragons will not be able to use warrior shields (if they aren't warrior secondary that is).

[Servant of Kali]

Am i the only one who thinks it's boring that all primary attributes are actually energy-gain?

Energy Storage
Soul Reaping
Critical Hits
Leadership
Dervish primary..

I mean.. half of the professions have energy management primary. I'd prefer that i have some fun attribute, even if it means Spawning, which some consider weak (i myself, think it needs a buff).


And i cant wait to see 55hp dervishes replacing monks.... sigh. Just what GW needed :>

Paragon better have some cool skills, because Dervish didnt impress me so far :P

[Orrik]

affected by one of your Shouts
Which begs the question: Does this apply to warrior shouts? If so P/W with points in tactics will be a common sight.

[Erasculio]

From here (http://www.guildwars.jp/news/news_view.aspx?bid=1&iid=374):

http://static.guildwars.jp/images/event/0607c3pvp/02.jpg
So spears are one handed? I wonder if we'll see shields linked to Paragon attributes.

Erasculio

[Phoebus]

So spears are one handed? I wonder if we'll see shields linked to Paragon attributes.
I sure hope so.

And if the spears can be moded we can expect one handed ranged weapons with +20% enchant. :)

[Servant of Kali]

WoW i might make Paragon after all! That pic is awesome. I never liked being warrior. Too mainstream for me. But they do have some awesome shields. Now i can finally get one, well, without being warrior :P

I see that spearman also nicely fits Chapter3, being the classical african warrior style. Let's hunt some lions :P I can already see a lot of Shaka Zulus!

[The Harlequin]

The energy rebate from shouting is fairly clear to me. With a full party at level 20, you basically get to do a lot of shouting for free. That seems to be the intent of the design. That seem reasonable--Level 20 rangers get to spam barrage for nearly free. It's realistic to expect ppl will have Leadership at 9 or 12 to get +3 or +4 per shout, with shouts going for (just my guess) 5E each.

Is the spear a close or range weapon? I hope it's a close weapon with adrenaline-based skills. I'm really hoping this is a viable alternative to the Warrior (can you tell? :azn: ) complete with real defensive tanking options for PvE goodness.

[lavenbb]

maybe the shields are 10AL and has no requirement, just like peppermint shields?

They sort of introduced them during Christmas and people can't get them anymore.. kinda unbalancing..

[ShiningDrLight]

I've never heard ANYONE call a peppermint shield unbalanced:tongue: ...they don't grant any energy bonus or anything other than a measly 10 AL...which makes them useless for Casters [who need the energy more] and useless for Warrior and Rangers [Warriors get better Shields, Rangers have 2-handed bows...or hammers as the case may be] :grin:

[lavenbb]

My casters use it when they go melee. The point here is not how useful the item is, it is just the fact that some people have access and some don't. Sort of like the old HoD swords.

We already see that pretty much all the other items have been modified or made available across the board. It is only a matter of time until 10AL shields get the same treatment.

[ShiningDrLight]

Yes, but i'm sure you get a 10 AL shield without a requirement somewhere in Pre-Searing or Post-Searing...its not particularly valued so I don't see much of a reason to have it be modified like the HoD sword and made ready across the map...

[Patccmoi]

Considering how close to warriors Paragon are with their shields, i'm starting to hope for adrenaline skills and shouts.

If you have low adrenaline shouts, then their primary attribute becomes quite interesting. Otherwise there is always Watch Yourself!, but the range on that is pretty poor, though if you're in melee alone with 2 others it's pretty easy to have going good.

A Flurry Paragon with Watch Yourself! could potentially have good energy going.

[Look Alive]

I wonder what req. the paragon shields might have.

[lavenbb]

Considering how close to warriors Paragon are with their shields, i'm starting to hope for adrenaline skills and shouts.

If you have low adrenaline shouts, then their primary attribute becomes quite interesting. Otherwise there is always Watch Yourself!, but the range on that is pretty poor, though if you're in melee alone with 2 others it's pretty easy to have going good.

A Flurry Paragon with Watch Yourself! could potentially have good energy going.

"Watch Youselves!" is changed to within earshot now.

[neoflame]

"Watch Youselves!" is changed to within earshot now.
WY has been earshot for a while. The real change is that earshot is apparently now aggro bubble range...