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View Full Version : oh wow, dervish will get nerfed a bit i think look



Captain Roberts
28-07-2006, 06:29
ok all dervish atacks are aoe, So when i use desperation blow everyone gets 1 condition and +30 dmg, then if a paragon uses that stability shout they take an extra 50+ dmg..this could be cool :p

Aramaki
28-07-2006, 06:46
D/W ftw! :grin:
Skills eventually will get balanced, can't wait for Nightfall already lol

GADefence
28-07-2006, 06:47
Drunken Blow + Deperate Blow + Balanced Stance FTW.

Archenine Paranoia
28-07-2006, 06:48
How does hundred blades + dervish work? Or Sun & Moon Slash?

BustroQuick
28-07-2006, 06:52
How does hundred blades + dervish work? Or Sun & Moon Slash?

Those require a sword equipped, so I don't think it'll be a problem.

Archenine Paranoia
28-07-2006, 06:53
Those require a sword equipped, so I don't think it'll be a problem.

So only the scythe attacks are AOE? My bad - I haven't made any of these characters yet to test them out.

suikoden
28-07-2006, 07:23
Sadly im inkling to solo vermin with them :shocked:

nsxyoungone
28-07-2006, 07:28
well the whole purpose of the pvp event is to see how they play and then be nerfed

Avatus Culire
28-07-2006, 07:31
well the whole purpose of the pvp event is to see how they play and then be nerfed
Indeed. Anet nerf too much :/

hadech
28-07-2006, 08:39
yes, I tried a Dervish in PvP and was swing my scythe around on the dummies and I did discover that their basic attacks are AoE. Imediately I think of the troll cave and the UW. Then I think "will the basic attacks make the mosters run away?" I really hope not

Longasc
28-07-2006, 09:20
The Scythe AoE is uber.

Also think of Wild Blow (guaranteed max damage crit hit), 9-41 is the base damage. You do 80 damage to a 60 AL target with WB on the isle of the nameless.

And now the best --- this swing is AoE...

Not to mention the other skills. I agree, heavy nerfs are to be expected.

Darakus
28-07-2006, 09:22
IF they're AoE and repeated in a manner that makes them seem like recurrent damage then the mobs will run.

That said it is most likely that what we are seeing now will be modded prior to final release as it is what happened with the assassin and ritualist for factions.

Azrael STX
28-07-2006, 09:27
Your attacks hitting all nearby enemies doesn't mean they cause AoE panic. That would be an unlogical thing to do to melee attacks =P

It's pretty obvious to me that W/Mo runners are going to be replaced by Dervish primary. As a pro runner, I saw a few skills on the Dervish that, when used properly, could be used to make the Droknar run without any secondary skills needed, as well as pretty much any other place that doesn't require soloing. I will be greatly anticipating the release of Nightfall for said purpose. Go go Avatar of Balthazar!

So, who else found it amusing to see the elite signet that lets you remove conditions from your party members.. as long as you set yourself on fire. I love it =D

ShadowCeiling
28-07-2006, 09:36
Apart from a few nerfs to the actual class... I expect a huge boost of anti-enchants and some new skills for anti-form... I mean the scythe is like hammer speed? or faster? not quite sure... I just don't want them to slow down the attack speed, some skill nerfs, like the elites... and not quite sure what else they'll do...

Shanaeri Rynale
28-07-2006, 09:37
All the usual Mesmer anti melee builds are fun right now, so many dervishes it's funny. No doubt as the day wears on people will learn the combo's and it'll be harder to harvest them

I love some of the skill names. It's only a flesh wound - lol

Findariel
28-07-2006, 09:39
Dervishes have melee attacks and their AoE damage nearby.
Paragon spears only have short bow range.

So for any Crippling Build, they are perfect.

wingzro
28-07-2006, 09:44
is it only basic attacks or attack skills aswell?

if it's only the basic attacks (selecting a target and pressing spacebar) that's AoE, then there really isn't a problem. unless all you do in a fight is just attacking with basic attacks.

Seef II
28-07-2006, 09:54
The only melee attack that behaves differently is Bull's Strike. It does not have AoE.

Skull Crack* - anyone casting in the AoE is dazed
Leviathan's Sweep - anyone evading in the AoE is knocked down
Protector's Strike - 1/2 second goodness
Desperation Blow - +damage, condition on struck foes
Thrill of Victory - +damage if you meet the requirement on all struck foes
Wild Blow - critical hit on all struck foes

etc.

Findariel
28-07-2006, 10:14
Just as a scyte implicates, it could be a very useful farming device ...

lifeinthefridge
28-07-2006, 10:18
well i think sycthe dmg should be reduced i mean they do insane dmg without sup runes

lifeinthefridge
28-07-2006, 10:20
Dervishes have melee attacks and their AoE damage nearby.
Paragon spears only have short bow range.

So for any Crippling Build, they are perfect.


well we dont no if theres differnt types of spears like... long spear, recurve spear who knows plus id like to see what the rare skins look like

salaboB
28-07-2006, 10:35
With so many powerful AoE melee attacks obviously okay, when will crude swing be fixed to be useful? :P

Longasc
28-07-2006, 13:20
With so many powerful AoE melee attacks obviously okay, when will crude swing be fixed to be useful? :P

Yes, I was thinking the same. Not that anyone would be using this skill actually, but I never figured out why it must be the only warrior aoe attack (hundred blades, cyclone, triple just to name a few) to be "easy to interrupt".

BlazingAgony
28-07-2006, 13:36
Your attacks hitting all nearby enemies doesn't mean they cause AoE panic. That would be an unlogical thing to do to melee attacks =P

Why would it be unlogical? Say you and your team are all clumped up and something (regardless of whether melee or spell) keeps hitting all of you at once because you're close together.. what do you do? You scatter of course to minimize overall damage to your team. Mob AI is supposed to immitate this behavior.

It's not different than mobs scattering when using Ignite Arrows for example.

Fanghorn
28-07-2006, 13:59
ONe word, dervish= uber tanker in pve

Azgalon
28-07-2006, 14:56
Balth-form and just swing around? :D

ShiningDrLight
28-07-2006, 15:00
Well, i'm just glad that Dervish's are perhaps the only attacking class that won't be better with a Ranger Primary. Expertise....Yay!

richo
28-07-2006, 17:00
think mountain troll will soon meet balthazar (or atleast his avatar:wink: )

the dervish look very promising for farming trolls, vermin, pongmei valei, and more places i dont know atm~~

soulstryke
28-07-2006, 17:12
well the whole purpose of the pvp event is to see how they play and then be nerfed

Heheh perhaps. Or perhaps; given all the Factions grief they've been getting; they wanted to give us something to get our interest up for the next chapter release.

I can fully imagine these skills staying the same for the release; with only minor tweaks. Remember; we are playing with level 20 versions of these attacks - they are going to do less damage at lower attributes. I also think that several of these will only be useful in PvP; but that is my opinion based on what I've seen so far.

Have you seen how tactics are changing in PvP to fight these guys already? Splitting up, a little more one-on-one instead of massing around the first target... this is going to be fun.

Lenox
28-07-2006, 17:17
I like the Melandru+Chilling victory for Aoe with 16 mysticism and 13 scythe it will be awesome. Add Balthazar's rage to it and you're done.:D

Azgalon
28-07-2006, 17:22
I like the Melandru+Chilling victory for Aoe with 16 mysticism and 13 scythe it will be awesome. Add Balthazar's rage to it and you're done.:D

Should work well for the D'Alessio Seaboard Mission! :laughing: :girly:

Bobross
28-07-2006, 17:39
There's just too many good things about the class for it not to get nerfed. I've done fine against them, so far, but thats because people aren't familiar with them yet.

They boast: Built in easy to use energy management (and even a skill that doubles as energy management and a self heal), plentiful and powerful self and group heals, hex removal, condition removal, condition causing, aoe damage, some ridiculous aoe damage skills/combos. Powerful forms which last a long time (they can be up nearly half the time), cost little energy, have no means of being stripped: the only downside is the casting time of 2 seconds, allowing them to be interrupted, except that they recharge in 5-10 seconds if interrupted, so that doesn't even stop them.

Few obvious counters: enchant removal would seem to be a counter, but considering the effects of enchantments on ending, quick recharge of enchantments, and built in energy management, Dervishes actually want their enchantments to be removed. Backfire, is an easy solution, but CoP will work so well in most Dervish builds, for a pesky hex like that to be a problem (though its not even necessary, as Dervishes already have hex removal of their own). Interrupts aren't an option either, as many of the spells cast in under 1 second -and they even have a very good skill to prevent interrupts, if they ever became a problem.

Enchantment stripping followed by energy denial could work...but its a lot of concerted effort just to take down one character.

Lenox
28-07-2006, 17:46
Ahah just saw that AoMelandru will also work great with Exhausting Strike !
==> 16 mysticism, 13 Scythe, AoMelandru + Chilling Victory + Exhausting + Balthazar's Rage Here we go !:sunny:

DIEnamic
28-07-2006, 18:07
Can't wait for the dervish IWAY or dervish DUAL SMITE!

Either way, I see dervish getting nerfed into the ground hardcore come nightfall release.

Khift
28-07-2006, 19:17
I don't see dervishes getting nerfed at all. I find them to be acceptable, and hell I haven't even played one, just played against them.


First of all, they're clunky. The enchantments you need to feed your offense, if you supply them yourself, take time to put up. Those PBAoE enchantments you love so much? They suck. Yes, you heard me, they suck. They're decent now, because people don't know how to counter them, but as a monk I can say for certain I laughed every time I was kiting a dervish and they tried to hit me with those.


Dervishes have only one way to achieve IAS, although few/no people have noticed it thus far, and when you take out the AoE part they do pressure damage about equal to that of a warrior, just without the spiking ability.


The forms are, in general, powerful but acceptable. The only one I believe is a little over the top is Grenth, because mass enchantment removal on contact is really brutal. (I'm looking at you, OoA.) They're exactly what elites should be -- powerful, flashy, class defining and iconic yet not entirely broken.


Of course, they have massive synergy with smite which can and will be abused. Is that a problem? Heck no!


They've got alot of synergies, but when it comes down to it these are just the quintessential pressure melee character we needed. Warriors and Assassins can do the spiking; let Dervishes do the pressure.

cerimos
28-07-2006, 19:47
I don't see dervishes getting nerfed at all. I find them to be acceptable, and hell I haven't even played one, just played against them.


First of all, they're clunky. The enchantments you need to feed your offense, if you supply them yourself, take time to put up. Those PBAoE enchantments you love so much? They suck. Yes, you heard me, they suck. They're decent now, because people don't know how to counter them, but as a monk I can say for certain I laughed every time I was kiting a dervish and they tried to hit me with those.


Dervishes have only one way to achieve IAS, although few/no people have noticed it thus far, and when you take out the AoE part they do pressure damage about equal to that of a warrior, just without the spiking ability.


The forms are, in general, powerful but acceptable. The only one I believe is a little over the top is Grenth, because mass enchantment removal on contact is really brutal. (I'm looking at you, OoA.) They're exactly what elites should be -- powerful, flashy, class defining and iconic yet not entirely broken.


Of course, they have massive synergy with smite which can and will be abused. Is that a problem? Heck no!


They've got alot of synergies, but when it comes down to it these are just the quintessential pressure melee character we needed. Warriors and Assassins can do the spiking; let Dervishes do the pressure.


I TOTALLY AGREE, playing a dervish is powerful yes, when your playing against other dervish, but man you stick a warrior and monk in front of this class and you got problems, Some skills need nerfs, because of the totally broken builds people will make with sand shards but other than that, this is a really solid class, I dont see any problems with the base that is a dervish just whacky builds that people come up with, hopefully,Izzy will see that the class is fine, for the most part, except for some skills, These suckers drop like flies under focus fire, trust me, i played against them on a monk, and played one, and let me tell u, these guys fall faster than ele's.These will also make excellent edition to balance groups, forget smite, forget iway, These babies are just what we need for a melee train, as stated above!

Djinn Effer
28-07-2006, 19:56
These suckers drop like flies under focus fire, trust me, i played against them on a monk, and played one, and let me tell u, these guys fall faster than ele's.

I don't trust you. Infact, you're wrong. Firstly, they have more armor than Eles; Secondly, they have way more survival skills. Faithful Intervention + Mystic Vigor + Balthazar's Rage + 5:1 Vamp Scythe... You get healed for 30 per swing, (Thats if it only hit 1 person.. multiply that number by the number of people you hit 60, 90.. etc) nearly full every 20 seconds cause of rage, and if your health drops below 50% you get healed back up and can recast fi. You can solo just about anything. >.>;;"

CanthanPeasant
28-07-2006, 23:38
The Dervish is a great enchantment spammer/spiker... just using the Pre-made D/W built already gives the basic starting point on how to expand on the skill sets. I replaced the Tactics Victory is Mine shout with Pious Renewal and I never had energy problems. The Energy gain from Renewal is on top of the energy gain from Mysticism, so you could imagine the continuous spamming/spiking you can do with this baby.

El Sordo
28-07-2006, 23:45
Melandru's resilience seems to make these dervish get really frustrated due to their reliance on conditions to pressure. Also, crippling them also makes them a lot worse off and an easy target for ranged professions. I don't know if anyone has tried, but does SS hurt them for each person they deal damage to or per swing?