Dervish drives warriors out of work?

[Evalescore]

is it me or are dervishes FAR superior to warriors? look at their skills.. they got condition removal hex removal armor buffs and everything..... is there any use for the normal warrior?

[asdfsadfsaz]

personally I had the same thought but then the warrior has always been a staple unit of just about any team. I can see how the they reduce the need for a warrior but I dont see the flat out replacing it. The main thing is still the dervish's overall intrinsic armor. I know they have alot of armor buffs but most of them are enchantments and if Anet throws a couple of defile enchantments onto enemies then it presents alot of problems for dervs. I could imagine dervs fighting along side warriors where the warriors still tank and the dervs deals out the heavy damage and tank for a bit if things get dicey.

[funkylovemonkey]

If that's true, you can count on a nerf.

I can't check it out myself... unless I decide to delete a character, which I'm starting to lean toward.

[noblepaladin]

When enchantment removal and interrupts isn't an issue, warriors are inferior tanks to compared to casters. For example, an Elementalists running armor of earth and wards have more armor than a warrior and have 2 extra pips of energy to do damage or heal. A monk can do something similar, using a secondary class to boost armor (armor of earth, mesmer stance) and then add in shielding hands or various protection spells to take very low amounts of damage, while having enough energy to heal. Heck, if enchantment removal isn't an issue, Monks will just run 55. Warriors make superior tanks when there is a risk of enchantments being removed or spells interrupted. One of the reasons why I prefer to run W/Mes or W/R rather than Wa/Mo is that W/Mes and W/R does not rely on enchantments as much to tank. Most casters rely too heavily on enchantments already, and I don't want to make another member of the party weak against enchantment removal.

[Lord of the Risingmoon]

well though it is true that pretty much any profession can tank, with a little effort, most of them aren't designed to, warriors are by nature designed to do that, dervishes, well....they are going to, have to (well actually I wouldn't mind them not gettint nerfed...hehe...) but they are going to get nerfed, because this is a preview event like the factions one...and we all know what happend to the assassin when after the preview event...though lets hope the dervish only gets nerfed...not...well...slaughtered...

[Edward Fireborn]

warriors hold the line. They do a medium amout of damage and have high armor. to do damage, they dont rely on enchantments or spells, therefore being difficult to counter. The Dervish has lower armor, they rely on enchantments to be effective and against a warrior will easily be beaten. Dervish's also require 2 or more enemy's to be really effective, ie aoe damage. One thing i found while i was playing the dervish is that agaisnt one enemy it wasn't worth staying around.

[SuXxorz]

Warrior utilizes both adrenaline and energy
Dervish utilizes purely energy (Try using Fear me on dervishes, it messes them up alot... I used my spells-only dervish versus a fear me dervish, and it messed me so much, cause it kept draining my energy every time I thought I had enough to use meditation to get back my energy)

Warrior has interrupts
Warrior had knockdowns ( and gloves to increase KDs by 1 sec )
Dervish has neither

They're both frontlines, while a dervish's strength is AOE and pure damage, a warrior and assassin has KDs and interrupts...

P.S. condition removal comes from monk line... otherwise dervish has none...

[Akirai Annuvil]

Quote from: Suxxorz
P.S. condition removal comes from monk line... otherwise dervish has none...

/sarcasm Whatever do you mean don't thay have the wonderful Avatar of Melandru? /sarcasm off :)

[Puntarunt]

Warriors aren't going anywhere.

They are the most support dependent class in the game, and with that support, are one of the deadliest classes.

Warriors are very prone to Conditions
Warriors are very prone to Hexes
If you keep trivial Nuisances from effecting a Warrior, he/she can trounce anyone.

Only thing that truely ghey's a Warrior and can't be simple removed is blackout, but thats because it wipes Adreneline clean(which is also retarded, bad enough it locks your skills, but it also prevents the build of Adreneline, and removes any existing adreneline). I remember when it didn't used to, but it does now. Those were good times to...Blackout, wait a few seconds for it to end, then Irresistable Blow/Backbreaker/Crushing Blow/Hammer Bash/Irresistable Blow the mesmer that blacked you out.

<jab>If you doubt the strength of the Warrior class, your obviously not very familiar with the class</jab>

[critical vengeance]

warriors will always be needed, they are a core class and will be supported, by chapter 4 chances are there will not be another front line class and dervishes will be next to pudding by nerfs.

[SuXxorz]

/sarcasm Whatever do you mean don't thay have the wonderful Avatar of Melandru? /sarcasm off :)

that's immunity...not removal... Besides that, it's an elite. And is this the main build ppl was complaining about? I thought it was Balthazar's Form...

[Ghosties]

dervish primary ftw...

warriors primary for the lose!!!!

[Nanashi]

I can tell you one thing. W/D with Balthazar form! xD PWN... well for a short while seeing as how you need mystisism for it be worth a dang >_>

[Azgalon]

I can tell you one thing. W/D with Balthazar form! xD PWN... well for a short while seeing as how you need mystisism for it be worth a dang >_>

1 second with 0 Mysticism?

[Woop Shotty]

You guys are afraid of this, really? Perhaps those of you who are worried didn't have a chance to see the power of W/D 16 Strength, 12 Scythe Mastery, combined with Wild Blow and Primal Rage (also 20/20 sundering works well).

[highfivesucka]

i don't think dervish will "replace" warriors, because their armor is lower and when you throw in things like the tactics line and endure pain they're still the best in my opinion. but I think dervish will provide options such that instead of needing 2 warriors to tank you can take 1 and a dervish, which at the same time although can't tank like a warrior provides more damage output, and so therefore frees up any other party slot for something else. so basically i think it will supplement the warrior like the Restoration magic rit did for the monk, i mean it's still a pain to try to find healers for missions, but not as much as it used to be because now people are willing to compromise and take healing rits if they can't find them. and i think that's what dervish will do for people looking for tanks, just provide some relief from trying to build a cookie cutter pug team

[Rastapopolous]

You guys are afraid of this, really? Perhaps those of you who are worried didn't have a chance to see the power of W/D 16 Strength, 12 Scythe Mastery, combined with Wild Blow and Primal Rage (also 20/20 sundering works well).

:shocked: And you did? please tell me about it...

[Mr Panda]

You guys are afraid of this, really? Perhaps those of you who are worried didn't have a chance to see the power of W/D 16 Strength, 12 Scythe Mastery, combined with Wild Blow and Primal Rage (also 20/20 sundering works well).

Thats nice, but it has the tincy issue of being gimped to be able to do damage. D/x would have still very high damage, and self healing, and more damage from spell based.

On a minor note, this is about warriors being replaced, mainly for tanking...

[Woop Shotty]

Well, I tested both dervishes and warrior primaries out. Criticals on dervishes are much lower.

As a W/D, I was able to choose the Sentinel armor (100AL) set, and have criticals that would hit softies around 120 and other warriors usually around 80-90, but sometimes ~50 if they had armor buffs.

Maybe as a Dervish scythe-wielder you were able to make healers run, but believe me, a critical from a Warrior that has and 20/20 sundering mod, and is using Primal Rage for a ~50% to have a critical and an additional armor penetration from that skill, and able to use it for 10 seconds every 15 seconds, it is very powerful - and those people were scattering after seeing the numbers.

If you don't care for it in PvP for WHATEVER reason, at least recognize that this has the possibility to be great damage in PvE and especially while farming in small groups.

[tarutaru]

For early to mid-game damage dealing and holding the front lines, Devishes are going to reign supreme. That is, unless their spells cause AoE scatter (Note: this would be the perfect solution for Anet: just make their spells cause scatter). However, in late to elite-game, when the front line is there mainly to hold aggro and sponge the damage (think: stance tank), then Warriors are going to be more effective on the front.

However, as one poster predicted, I see both of them on the front lines most of the time. Warriors to take the damage, devishes to dish it out, big time.

[the bomb]

is it me or are dervishes FAR superior to warriors? look at their skills.. they got condition removal hex removal armor buffs and everything..... is there any use for the normal warrior?

the same thinking ade the asassin class useless in pve!

[lavenbb]

why would making spells scatter mobs a perfect solution? There's a reason why people hate firestorm...

[Renegade Returns]

Warriors arent leaving just yet. The Dervish is just the Aoe Dmg dealer which is basically a combo of a Earth ele and a Warrior. Its Armor isnt as strong as that of a warrior and they are only specialized in one weapon and dont have extra armor pene cause of strength. I think that dervishes and warriors can work together as the tank and a supporter in the front lines.

[GrimShade]

Man I remember reading a similar thread about the Assassin kililng the Warrior... ya that happened.

All in all I wouldn't mind them not haveing a Warrior as a class in Ch3. That would keep the D/W to a minimum for many starting out, and give a chance to have other 'core' classes.

[Flaming Bahamut]

the dervish can hit multiple targets and their scythe are more powerful than hammers plus its the same speed, i saw it on wiki

[Woop Shotty]

All in all I wouldn't mind them not haveing a Warrior as a class in Ch3. That would keep the D/W to a minimum for many starting out, and give a chance to have other 'core' classes.
How does that make sense. Anet wants their product to sell, and it seems most new people want to try out a warrior primary as their first character. Okay, so if Nightfall is flooded with warriors wouldn't that entice people to create other character types?
Or how about me, I wish to make a warrior in CH3 as the warrior armor we had a preview of looks great there.


the dervish can hit multiple targets and their scythe are more powerful than hammers plus its the same speed, i saw it on wiki
You don't need to be a dervish to use a scythe, or take advantage of 3 people being attacked at once, or the speed of it. As I said before, you'll be surprised when you actually have a look at the usefullness of the strength attribute combined with the scythe.

[Unnamed]

Only thing that truely ghey's a Warrior and can't be simple removed is blackout, but thats because it wipes Adreneline clean(which is also retarded, bad enough it locks your skills, but it also prevents the build of Adreneline, and removes any existing adreneline).

Try Sympathetic Visage aka Ancestor's Some-thing-or-other (factions) - Massively underused mesmer illusion ability which will undermine any attacking warriors (probably best used in Random arenas / Fort aspenwood etc). Can be removed but as with any enchantment stacking it can be nigh impossible to do.

[Paul Pluto]

Its Ancestors Visage :)

Yeah they both drain adrenaline and energy but I was thinking something more like Uhh was it soothing images that stopped purely adrenaline?

Dervishs arent going to push anyone out the way, the floods of them wont even be allowed into most groups just like assys. Look how badly people need warriors in Factions and they always need to be actually recruited a lot lately!

[critical vengeance]

Its Ancestors Visage :)

Yeah they both drain adrenaline and energy but I was thinking something more like Uhh was it soothing images that stopped purely adrenaline?

Dervishs arent going to push anyone out the way, the floods of them wont even be allowed into most groups just like assys. Look how badly people need warriors in Factions and they always need to be actually recruited a lot lately!


actually i see plenty of wammos looking for work, too many of them, once people see how nice the dervish is, they will be more than happy to be flooded with them

[elsydeon]

im surprised nobody has mentioned the balthazar form

+40 armor, holy dmg, and 33% faster move and attack and its a form, at 16 myst it lasts 64 seconds

this means 110 armor, more than any warrior has, 33% faster move, and cant be removed; making d/w perfect for running (a tactics shield and that sword from pre-searing that rurik gives you with a +5 defense mod for +26 armor, 136 total) with nothing but balanced stance and mystic regeneration (leaving 5 skill slots free, probably for more enchants to work with mystic regen, giving, in effect, super mending and myst makes them very energy efficient)

[critical vengeance]

im surprised nobody has mentioned the balthazar form

+40 armor, holy dmg, and 33% faster move and attack and its a form, at 16 myst it lasts 64 seconds

this means 110 armor, more than any warrior has, 33% faster move, and cant be removed; making d/w perfect for running (a tactics shield and that sword from pre-searing that rurik gives you with a +5 defense mod for +26 armor, 136 total) with nothing but balanced stance and mystic regeneration (leaving 5 skill slots free, probably for more enchants to work with mystic regen, giving, in effect, super mending and myst makes them very energy efficient)


that has been mentioned and yes the idea of it rocks :grin: maybe not mentioned on this thread but mentioned before and mystic regen should prove to be a great skill

[Renegade Returns]

Also keep in mind that the Dervish can only hit one target and 3 foes adjacent to that target and NOT all foes adjacent to it.

[Exodus Mars]

everyone knows all professions have counters, but with Anet adding so many new profs like the dervish, I'm having a hard time imagining a possibly stable team builds. You would have to be very specialized to counter the newest 3 professions, and I'm wondering if that's even possible anymore to have a well-rounded group.

[critical vengeance]

everyone knows all professions have counters, but with Anet adding so many new profs like the dervish, I'm having a hard time imagining a possibly stable team builds. You would have to be very specialized to counter the newest 3 professions, and I'm wondering if that's even possible anymore to have a well-rounded group.


Good point :undecided:

[Soron]

I rather think that dervish will make Assassins even less wanted.

[critical vengeance]

how they be anymore unwanted in most pugs? It seems almost... unimaginable.

[Exodus Mars]

one illegible string of letters concerning dervish=
omfglolroflmfaowtf!?!
In other words- wow!

[Fenix Aurion]

Dervish can't replace Warriors. Warriors are up in the frontlines at all times. Put Dervishes in the frontlines and it'll get beat down. Mesmer and Necro remove enchants will kill a Dervish immediently or make them useless. I think that Dervish is a class that shuld follow behind the warriors. Not replace them.

[Artemis Shadowhawk]

Although a Dervish cannot replace a warrior, I think they will be able to adequately tank in PvE. With constant enchantment cycling and CoP, you'll be able to drop conditions and hexes and constantly maintain health. Also, I think that in a PvE mob situations, they'll wield a higher damage output also. In PvP, I don't see Dervishes in any way replacing warriors though.

[MaximumSquid]

Rangers already drove warriors out of work DPS wise. . .

Warriors still have the speed buffs, Mass KD skills, the ability to take any elite if you go sword.

That's still a lot of flexability to work with when making builds.

What the Dervish will take away?

They were so unbalanced during the preview that you really can't make any claims yet.

I just see too many changes that could get made before release not including the addition of more skills for Dervish to play with.

Dervish may take the flagging job away from some builds, but I really don't see the Dervish topping warrior anytime soon out of PvE.

[devilsmom]

Warrior utilizes both adrenaline and energy
Dervish utilizes purely energy (Try using Fear me on dervishes, it messes them up alot... I used my spells-only dervish versus a fear me dervish, and it messed me so much, cause it kept draining my energy every time I thought I had enough to use meditation to get back my energy)

Warrior has interrupts
Warrior had knockdowns ( and gloves to increase KDs by 1 sec )
Dervish has neither

They're both frontlines, while a dervish's strength is AOE and pure damage, a warrior and assassin has KDs and interrupts...

P.S. condition removal comes from monk line... otherwise dervish has none...

well hes right...
warriors can always use adrenaline to help him make damage so he does not need much energy

while a dervish is fully energy what means that hell have some problems if hes energy goes down..

[Cirian]

The warrior has very reliable tanking skills and equipment. A typical warrior will have around 106 base AL (Dreadnought's/Legionnaire's + Shield), plus or minus 10AL for those that go for Glad's or Sentinel's. Then there's shouts ("Watch Yourself!" and "Shields Up!") for yourself and allies, Protector's Defence (75% block for allies), and a myraid of personal stances to aid defence or attack. Warriors also have some great self healing via Healing Signet and "Victory is Mine!", not to mention, a good damage output and interrupt skills.

People are also very familiar and comfortable with what warriors do and they are a very, very solid class.

I think Dervishes have the stronger offence by far for taking out multiple enemies in melee. I saw someone do the base DPS numbers for Spears and Scythes, and unsurprisingly (roughly) Spears = Swords = Axes, and Scythes = Hammers. Once you factor the multi-target nature of scythes into the mix, plus the skills, Dervishes are like hammer Warriors on crack at damage - at least on paper. Pure tanking wise they look softer, but with the right support they can be hardened pretty well - I'd like to see Warriors and Dervishes teaming up. I think Paragons are going to have a big effect on tanking too, particularly the way they can buff Warriors and Dervishes.

[critical vengeance]

Considering avatar of bathazarr gives an extra 40 armor taking base al to 110, while it is up you have a lot of armor, and yeah the paragon if defiantly going to effect a lot, considering where it used to take spells to have the effect, it will be skills.

[Woop Shotty]

You guys just wait you'll find out that what I said about W/D is true. All this talk continues about which is greater than the other, and all you need to look at it the simple damage of it. You'll see, so long as they didn't nerf the scythe that badly.

[critical vengeance]

Well scythe skills do cost a lot... w/d with a sycthe might be a bit hard. To tell you the truth though i really think anet is going to punish the dervish like the assassin, instead of afflicted though they will have things like well of profance and shatter enchant and stuff to just mess up the dervish bad.

[katya]

Pure tanking wise they look softer, but with the right support they can be hardened pretty well - I'd like to see Warriors and Dervishes teaming up. I think Paragons are going to have a big effect on tanking too, particularly the way they can buff Warriors and Dervishes.

Yup, I'm dead keen to see how the Dervish and Paragon will slot into a team environment as support for Warriors. With strong support classes like Ritualists and Paragons I get the feeling that some interesting changes are in the air.

[Woop Shotty]

Well scythe skills do cost a lot... w/d with a sycthe might be a bit hard. To tell you the truth though i really think anet is going to punish the dervish like the assassin, instead of afflicted though they will have things like well of profance and shatter enchant and stuff to just mess up the dervish bad.
All you need is Primal Rage and high Strength and you've got a working build. Of course a stance can be stripped, but how often does that happen in PvE?

With a 20/20 scythe and max strength, during the PvP event, I was dealing 70-110 and no one cared to do anything but run. Whether or not it will be big in PvP, it will probably be big in PvE. One can have Sentinal armor, tank, and deal 300dps +/- in the same time.

[halfthought]

dervishes cant tank (supposeing cop spike is nerfed)

[MaximumSquid]

halfthought: Tanking is an understatement when four or five people can't kill you! :shocked:

[Kjentei]

Warriors will always be needed. They take a beating better than any of the other professions, and deal a surprising amount of damage- being great with knockdowns and some conditions. As well as not being too dependant on energy.

I see that the Dervish is not as capable of tanking as well as the Warrior can (However, Conviction seems like a skill I predict will be used in PvE a lot, if it can give the Dervish AL:94). I think that the Dervish is much better at inflicting multiple conditions on multiple foes. I also think the Dervish has some great farming and running possibilities.

I don't think Dervishes will "drive the Warrior out of work". Instead, I think that they're not best to be compared.

I'm very excited about the Paragon, there's just so many great things going for the Paragon. (I really want to test out Anthem of Flame + Barrage :tongue: )

[tommynj]

Warriors are still the tank kings with the high armor rating but don't be so fast to say a war can put down a dervish so easily. People said that about sins, where they cant beat a war and they was wrong. Lets just wait and see how people plan to use their new classes.

[Symbolic Self]

Dragon slashers are killing machines in PvE. KILLING MACHINES. Don't underestimate the damage a warrior can put out even in PvE. That said a D/W with flail looks to be unbeatable in terms of mass damage output.

In PvP the superior single target damage of warriors will win the day, though it looks like dervishes will make great smite platforms.

[TLLOTS]

There's no doubt that Dervishes won't displace Warriors. However, they do have great potential in pressure builds, particularly with the range of conditions they can dish out. Just imagine a D/R using Apply Poison along with Wounding Strike. Assuming you're not enchanted, that's -7 degeneration on every target you hit, and when you decide you want it, slap on an enchantment ssuch as Aura of Thorns to cripple everyone nearby and you then have the most spammable deep wound in the game, and that's only 3 skills so far.

[Xpiher]

IMO, Dervishes will replace warriors in some builds if the D/Me Sand Shards build isn't nurffed right off the bat then you'll be seeing D/Me in pressure builds instead of Warriors. If Dervishes can maintain conditions, you may see 2 Dervishes and 1 Warrior Front line emerging. Either way, Dervishes are going to change the meta game drastically.

[Servant of Kali]

In PvE, i cant think of a single situation where Warrior would be better than a well-played Dervish, simply because Dervish can use so many awesome combinations.

A smite monk + dervish in pve is a combo i dont want to miss. Need a tank? Really, forget about warrior. Dervish can do it better. Let's make some use of mesmer too. Throw Visages on a D just before he enters battle. It will also give him energy and health.

Not only can Dervish be more resistance to hits/spells, he can also kill much much faster in PvE.

I dont have PvE warrior, never liked em too much. Now, there wont be a reason to take one in PvE over a decent Dervish (which means no DMo with mending).

[jamesmackswell]

Everyone seems to forget that almost all the dervish buffs and cool features (forms aside) are enchantments. In PvE, I imagine that ANet gave enchantment removal skills to most of the enemy mobs (at least at higher levels). Groups will still need warriors, because you can't strip off what makes warriors "tanks."

[TLLOTS]

Everyone seems to forget that almost all the dervish buffs and cool features (forms aside) are enchantments. In PvE, I imagine that ANet gave enchantment removal skills to most of the enemy mobs (at least at higher levels). Groups will still need warriors, because you can't strip off what makes warriors "tanks."
That's not really true. Dervishes are reliant on enchantments certainly, but simply removing enchantments isn't as dangerous to a Dervish as you may think. Many Dervish builds will make great use of cover enchantments, because they fully expect them to be stripped, either by enemies or by themselves using skills. Sure, you could momentarily screw up a Dervish by using Rend Enchantments to get rid of their cover enchantments and enchantments below it, but then all you've done is activated those enchantments ending effects and given the Dervish a nice amount of energy. With the recharge time of many Dervish enchantments being so low, it's not a problem to throw them back up again before an opponent can take advantage of it.

[critical vengeance]

That's not really true. Dervishes are reliant on enchantments certainly, but simply removing enchantments isn't as dangerous to a Dervish as you may think. Many Dervish builds will make great use of cover enchantments, because they fully expect them to be stripped, either by enemies or by themselves using skills. Sure, you could momentarily screw up a Dervish by using Rend Enchantments to get rid of their cover enchantments and enchantments below it, but then all you've done is activated those enchantments ending effects and given the Dervish a nice amount of energy. With the recharge time of many Dervish enchantments being so low, it's not a problem to throw them back up again before an opponent can take advantage of it.


I'm still wondering how many mobs will end up using well of profane, if anet plans to make it harder it will be there a lot

[lavenbb]

Under normal circumstances, enchantment removal shouldn't hurt dervish much, but do remember PvE can be setup to be extremely lop-sided. Mandragor groups, for example, has like 4 or so monsters who are very willing to spam chillblains + plague touch to all your party members. This is only at the newbie island after like.. the second mission..

I believe dervishes will indeed have a slightly more difficult time in Elona than in other places, just like Kaineng city is harsh to assasins.

[Servant of Kali]

Nightfall will of course be biased.. as i said, it was same with Prophecies. But i DONT count Nightfall to show how good Dervish is vs Warriors. I count Factions and Prophecies. Nightfall will be artifically created with Dervishes in mind, just as Factions was with assassin (explosions anyone?).

So, warriors in Prophecies and Factions - extincts species. And i like it! :P
(ofc i dont mean they wont be played, just that i think dervish will be better)

[Linux]

Do everyone hear the trumpets and bells of a big class war..... W/x and D/x

Warriors will always stay n chap three dervishes are a monk ele and warrior mix pretty much so they are right up their with warriors , But warriors are the kings!!!! It depends of the skills of the warrior also their armor is GR8 so we will see

Hmmm i been ready and checking out the skills and d/x builds i am not sure yet dervishes have good attributes but the armor is ok compare to warriors so i keep my farming ra/mo gvg w/rt and make a d/x

[critical vengeance]

Do everyone hear the trumpets and bells of a big class war..... W/x and D/x

Warriors will always stay n chap three dervishes are a monk ele and warrior mix pretty much so they are right up their with warriors , But warriors are the kings!!!! It depends of the skills of the warrior also their armor is GR8 so we will see


demo dervish (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=426158)


i would like to see a warrior outlive that :cool:

[Linux]

yea yea I READ MORE I AM CHANGING my statement kinda so d/x are very skillful so we will c now i am lookn for the x for the d/x

Avatar of Melandru

wow this is a nice elite skill check it out sry for spamming thread i got alot to say heheh sry bye!

[katya]

If somebody has not responded to the thread you want to post to and the edit button is still available (1 hour since you posted) any new post by yourself will be considered a double post.

So Linux, if you have a lot to say, compose your thoughts, write your post and then post it. Please do not double post.

The Avatars are generally nice skills, though. How do you think they will help drive Warriors out of work?

[FireballX]

Endure Pain
Defy Pain
Dolyak Signet

^^ All tied to the strength tree, all only available to Warriors, all make the warrior a superior tank. That's pretty much the end of it.

Now, regarding damage, from what I've seen the dervish does insane amounts of AoE. But no KD, no interrupts as far as I've seen, so no utility other than the damage + conditions. Won't be replacing a solid hammer warrior in my pvp builds.

[Servant of Kali]

Wait FireballX, so you're expecting Dervish to replace like every possible role? Ahem?

Hammer warrior in PvP? Just how many hammer warriors have you seen last few months in GvG? I remember.... 1? Everyone is sword or axe.


Endure Pain
Defy Pain
Dolyak Signet

^^ All tied to the strength tree, all only available to Warriors, all make the warrior a superior tank. That's pretty much the end of it.

You're kidding right?

Doesnt matter, i'll leave you to your oppinions... im not going to explain again why sword mending isnt as good as people think.¸


ps: If i wanted i couldve made Oath shot Symbiosis ranger or RLord Rt with Symbiosis. If total health is what makes the best tank (which it doesnt). Dervish would have what... 2,000 health?

[FireballX]

Wait FireballX, so you're expecting Dervish to replace like every possible role? Ahem?

Hammer warrior in PvP? Just how many hammer warriors have you seen last few months in GvG? I remember.... 1? Everyone is sword or axe.



You're kidding right?

Doesnt matter, i'll leave you to your oppinions... im not going to explain again why sword mending isnt as good as people think.¸


ps: If i wanted i couldve made Oath shot Symbiosis ranger or RLord Rt with Symbiosis. If total health is what makes the best tank (which it doesnt). Dervish would have what... 2,000 health?

...you missed my point.

Regarding tanking, it's not the total amount of health that matters, it's the fact that you can control when you want the health or armor. This allows flexibility. More than a second on a symbiosis summon is not flexibility, but an instant 250 health is. Same for +32 armor.

Regarding damage, in PvE axe warriors end up competing with dervishes for total dps output. And from what I've seen, dervishes are better total damage dealers, but not single-target damage dealers.

I wasn't expecting the dervish to replace every role, I'm pointing out roles the warrior could do that the dervish cannot, as per the title of the topic.

And I really, really do like how you pull the mending warrior out as a strawman to attempt to discredit my post.

[Servant of Kali]

Ok so let's stick to tanking :) You say warrior is better because of health+armor. That's ok. I say Dervish is better because he negates so much of the dmg others can do on him, that it doesnt really matter whether he has higher health or not.

If you evade/block 50% attacks for instance, you dont need as much health as someone who has no evade/block. If no spells can target you, you dont need that much health because half of enemy group does absolutely nothing to you.

That's kinda logic i used. Im sure there are roles where Dervish isnt better than warrior, true, but in PvE i cant think of many of those, honestly speaking.

[TLLOTS]

Eh, tanking is a pretty foolish exercise in any case. If you have a need to tank, then you're not killing things fast enough.

[FireballX]

Eh, tanking is a pretty foolish exercise in any case. If you have a need to tank, then you're not killing things fast enough.

Now there's a comical statement I'm not going to bother refuting.