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View Full Version : There is a reason Dervish is overpowered



Servant of Kali
28-07-2006, 20:17
..and why Assassin was a bit overpowered last preview even before Factions.


Being overpowered is the way for many to love the class. And if you love the class you're going to buy expansion. "wow this class is great" is much better stimulans than "they are ok..." (for buying new chapter that is). That's the reason why Anet feels it's better to make class somewhat overpowered at first, and then before chapter is out, balance it.

I dont see any other reason. Let's face it, you cant miss how uber some of their builds are, especially considering Dervish is supposed to be better in pve. Well if they are this good in pvp atm, wow :P

Freaking healer II
28-07-2006, 20:24
The main reason they are "overpowered" is they havn't tested it in the big public and that's one of the reasons they having a Beta Weekend.

Azure Eyes
28-07-2006, 22:22
I think the OP's reason is a lot more likely. Theres no way they didnt see some of these builds coming. Especially the sand shards skill as well as numerous others. Their use was obvious as soon as you read the description. Dervs were intentionally made strong to get the player hooked. If sins were the way they are now compared to the preveiw i would have been much more reluctant to buy factions. Dervs are gonna get hit by the biggest nerf bat seen to date, by the time of release dervs are gonna have 20 armor 10-15 scythes with hammer speed and mysticisms energy gain will be halved and the health dropped altogether.

Bobross
28-07-2006, 22:31
Probably a bit of both...some of the combos are really obvious: just looking at the skills, the potential for abuse just jumps out at you.

So they must've come up with a bunch of skills, and even the ones where they knew there was a potential for problems, they just threw em all in the pot as is, and decided to let people go to town, they can sift through the data later and tweak, and balance as needed.

In the meantime, they give people a chance to brainstorm all the crazy abusive things they can do with the skills, and get really excited about the game. Win/Win! Then they'll tone it down some before the next preview event, and then nerf the hell out of them right before the game is released, so that everyone that plays other classes doesn't get fed up and quit. Makes sense to me.

Servant of Kali
28-07-2006, 22:36
The main reason they are "overpowered" is they havn't tested it in the big public and that's one of the reasons they having a Beta Weekend.

Oh come on, let's be honest. What are the chances that an average or i dunno, above avg (but not l33t) GW player can figger out obvious overpowered skills after... like 2sec? Do you really think a skill designer couldnt see that some skills are definitely overpowered? I dont think so :)

It is true that there are skills which prove average or nothing special, and then suddenly they are overpowered because game designed overlooked a possible strong combo. But with some skills it is so very obvious they are overpowered. Look at Lightning spear Paragon skill, which they even put in premade :) It is very superior to any bow skill, by far. And it is spammable with 2sec recharge. "Overlooked"? Nah :P


and that's one of the reasons they having a Beta Weekend.

But by far not the most important one. The #1 reason is a promotion of the game. That's also reason #2-#9 :)

I havent noticed we can "test" the "balance" of skills which will be added to existing professions :) And, if balance is such an issue, im sure we would be given than option.


Dervs are gonna get hit by the biggest nerf bat seen to date

Im afraid that's exactly what will happen :) But, i dont think they need to be nerfed that bad for pvp. However..... in pve im afraid, due to the nature of AI and mob configuration, that they will be way superior to warriors.

How many mobs have you seen using Gaze of Contempt? Very few, and only in Factions. Even then, Dervish gains energy when his enchants are removed (expired) and can re-spam some. On the other hand, if they aint removed, he remains very powerful. Aside of Gaze of Contempt, i dont think any enchant removal will suffice on pve mobs. No Prophecy mob, for instance, can remove enchants as fast as solo Dervish can put them. IMO. I still have to test tho... it's a bit early to tell.

zweistein
28-07-2006, 23:09
gotta kinda agree

when premades easily predate arenas, then there is something wrong... It kinda cant be bad testing, and nor it can be unaviability of counters...

tommynj
25-10-2006, 08:53
Dervish was never overpowered to begin with cause this was only beta testing as stated many times before.

Servant of Kali
25-10-2006, 11:46
Wow you're ingenious. You obviously dont understand that beta testing has nothing to do with word overpowered do you? In that beta test, the beta Dervish could play against non-beta something else, and pwn. When someone lost in Heroes Ascent because Dervish was blatantly overpowered, why didnt you explain to them "oh you actually won, these were beta dervishes, they are imaginary". And when people gained fame by winning in HoH, why didnt you explain to them "these are imaginary fame points which will disappear once dervish isnt beta anymore".

Longasc
25-10-2006, 14:45
Don't forget that some of the Skales were Dervishes and had enchantment rending attack skills.

Which did not bother me that much actually, after all you get back some energy and the bonus effect usually.


I agree, overpowering a class in preview events is a good way to promote it. It also gives them the licence to kill when people post how overpowered a build/class is. They are basically requesting a nerf of their class and kinda expect it, too.

After all that praise for the Dervish the health gain of Mysticism is now a joke, 1 per level, brr. But I am still glad that they can still walk without a cane, after all that praise and whine and requests to nerf them we can be glad that the class still exists. :tongue:

trafalgar-zero
25-10-2006, 15:19
I think it is a lot easier to justify nerfing a class that needs it, then boasting a class that needs it. In the public eye it could be seen as favoritism if boasts were given out to a certain class. If they nerfed a class, instead of having the people who play every other class in an uproar, which comes with boasts, you only have the people who play that class complaining.
Promoting could be another reason they wanted the class strong.

Servant of Kali
25-10-2006, 16:03
Well, no one really complained when Ritualists and Assassins got quite a lot of buffs in the last update, since everyone knew how pathetic those skills were before buffs.

Roze
25-10-2006, 22:17
ok first in the pve event dervish were only slightly overpowered because of a few things
1) the mystacism nerf (it hurts i know but was kinda nessacary)
2) armor (dervish armor sucks)
3) the fact that all of the buffs are enchanements (enchanements are removed rather easaly)

Servant of Kali
25-10-2006, 22:36
Slightly overpowered? Have you actually used observer mode at any point during weekend? HoH full of 8-man dervish teams, GvG battles ending in 2 min (literary) - that's how long it took for Spearmen and other guilds to win. You can say others didnt really have good enough counters but still....

critical vengeance
25-10-2006, 23:52
spike potential isn't as great now, all the PBaoe spells got nerfed, seems like half damage and double the recharge it think for almost all of them.

Linux
27-10-2006, 22:12
The game will balance out, In the begining of guild wars w/mo was the main owners but now they're balance so now it is advertising skills d/m healing ursef is great and removing hex and conditions d/w tanker run with stand everything and runner so they're all god but its looks wierd running with a Scythe. it is hard choosing well u can always switch at 20 ur prim.............................................. .........................................

ChernobylOverseer
30-10-2006, 15:18
I just dont want dervishes to be like assassins, thinking they can tank and dying faster than the monk can do anything about, then everyone gets pissed at the monk, yadda yadda yadda so on and so forth.

Servant of Kali
30-10-2006, 15:42
ChernobylOverseer - I dont know what exactly is your problem. Unlike assassin, Dervish _CAN_ tank. My dervish has went through half of the game (at least as far as missions are concerned) with starter armor. Yes that's right. And guess what, i TANK. With all the buffs on me, they really dont get much for attacking me. And i deal nice aoe dmg all the time.

Kojak
30-10-2006, 15:43
The Dervish might seem overpowered, untill you run into a necro spamming the two variations of desecrate enchantments :P While you desperately try and strip them off yourself before you die :x

unseen victor
30-10-2006, 16:51
The dervish is set up to strip its own enchantment very fast (pious assault) being the one that comes to my mind the fastest. and with most of the enchantmest being "when this enchantment ends" and mysticism being what it is. Any time you strip or remove those enchantments you heal them or set someone fire, cripple, weaken or cause some other condition. So what you get is fully healed fully regened energy and anyone that is around them is most likly dead.

Kojak
30-10-2006, 16:59
dessecrate doesn't remove the enchantment. It just damages them according to how many enchantments are on the target. So you do huge damage vs the dervish, without removing their enchantments ;)

unseen victor
30-10-2006, 17:23
but pious assault does with no recharge if you are under the effects of a enchantment. What you need is enchantment removal with health degen conditions. Then your defile or dessecrate once there health enchantment is gone. But still if the enchantments are stacked in a good order your going to heal them for every bit of there health back. The only way i see to take the dervish down is a good energy denial build with massive aoe attacks

Kojak
30-10-2006, 19:30
Energy denial definately screwes up a dervish, so does spirit shackles + mindwrack. with all those aoe swings.

Not to mention SS, and the big one. Spoilt Victor. (providing they dont have avatar of dwayna equipped)

unseen victor
30-10-2006, 21:35
I think Soul Barbs is going to be the best way.

1.Soul Barbs
2.Guilt
3.Backfire
4.Power Flux
5.Wastrel's demise
6.Enfeeble
7.Energy Burn

Spell denial with tons of hexs, energy burn, and weakness. has no heals but any sin, dervish, or other caster would be a puddle.

There is ways to take them down. But its going to be M/N or a N/M.

The Last Windseeker
30-10-2006, 22:52
The thing about dervishes is that you can't just make a build to kill a dervish in general. You really need to know what form they are going to be using and use something that that form doesn't cover. Example, if they are using Mendralu thenhexes will work well against them, If they are using Dwayna then conditions work best against them If they are using Balthazar then using degen will work the best. Of course you could try running an energy denial build but from my experiences, dervishes are pretty resilent to that due to the fact they gain energy back from mythicsm.

rentauri
31-10-2006, 20:41
Hexing might work but I think the best bet would be enchant denial. Stop them from putting on enchants such as Well of Profane and Shadow Shroud.