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View Full Version : The Attempted Revival of Arredondo's Team Hex-A-Lot.



tarutaru
29-07-2006, 06:13
I think that most of us can remember back in the day when warriors ran rampant in gvg with their Lieutenant Helms, allowing the normally devastating hexes to just s..l..i..d..e right off of them with ease. Hexes were almost non-existant in the gvg metagame during that time, seeing as it was almost useless to try to shut down the melee classes that way.

However, those days are long gone. Which made me wonder... Could a mass hexing GvG build be viable nowadays, or is it just part of the graveyard of potentially great teams? W/o annoying equipment like that blasted Helm to stand in my way, I set off to dust off Arredondo's old threads on his romps with the Hex-A-Lot crew, and see what I could build from it.

Here below is the build in its current form. I've tweaked it and tweaked it, and I think it's at the point for general consumption. Strategy follows afterwards.


Necromancer/Monk
Soul Reaping: 4 (3+1)
Blood Magic: 16 (12+4)
Healing Prayers: 9
Smiting Prayers: 9

Offering of Blood [Elite] (Blood Magic)
Life Siphon (Blood Magic)
Blood Ritual (Blood Magic)
Mark of Subversion (Blood Magic)
Well of Blood (Blood Magic)
Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
Scourge Healing (Smiting Prayers)
Resurrection Chant (Healing Prayers)


Mesmer/Necromancer
Fast Casting: 10 (9+1)
Inspiration Magic: 10 (9+1)
Illusion Magic: 16 (12+4)

Crippling Anguish [Elite] (Illusion Magic)
Conjure Phantasm (Illusion Magic)
Clumsiness (Illusion Magic)
Images of Remorse (Illusion Magic)
Soothing Images (Illusion Magic)
Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
Mantra of Persistence (Inspiration Magic)
Resurrection Signet ()


2 x Mesmer/Monk
Fast Casting: 7 (6+1)
Inspiration Magic: 12 (11+1)
Illusion Magic: 16 (12+4)

Migraine [Elite] (Illusion Magic)
Arcane Conundrum (Illusion Magic)
Spirit Shackles (Inspiration Magic)
Power Drain (Inspiration Magic)
Leech Signet (Inspiration Magic)
Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
Mantra of Persistence (Inspiration Magic)
Resurrection Chant (Healing Prayers)


Elementalist/Necromancer
Energy Storage: 10 (9+1)
Water Magic: 14 (10+4)
Curses: 11

Ether Prodigy [Elite] (Energy Storage)
Blurred Vision (Water Magic)
Shard Storm (Water Magic)
Teinai's Prison (Water Magic)
Malaise (Curses)
Suffering (Curses)
Shadow of Fear (Curses)
Faintheartedness (Curses)


Ranger/Necromancer
Expertise: 16 (12+4)
Blood Magic: 12

Vampiric Touch (Blood Magic)
Vampiric Bite (Blood Magic)
Touch of Agony (Blood Magic)
Offering of Blood [Elite] (Blood Magic)
Whirling Defense (Expertise)
Dodge (Expertise)
Plague Touch (Necromancer Other)
Resurrection Signet ()


Ritualist/Mesmer
Spawning Power: 3
Restoration Magic: 13 (12+1)
Inspiration Magic: 12

Soothing Memories (Restoration Magic)
Mend Body and Soul (Restoration Magic)
Weapon of Warding (Restoration Magic)
Resilient Was Xiko (Restoration Magic)
Recuperation (Restoration Magic)
Preservation [Elite] (Restoration Magic)
Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
Inspired Hex (Inspiration Magic)


Monk/Mesmer
Divine Favor: 15 (11+4)
Healing Prayers: 11 (10+1)
Inspiration Magic: 10

Blessed Light [Elite] (Divine Favor)
Dwayna's Kiss (Healing Prayers)
Gift of Health (Healing Prayers)
Signet of Devotion (Divine Favor)
Healing Whisper (Healing Prayers)
Power Drain (Inspiration Magic)
Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
Heal Party (Healing Prayers)


Essentially, this operates just as a damage-heavy pressure build would. You get into the fight fast, and never give them a chance to breathe. I'll break the builds down into sections:

***Melee Shutdown***
Especially pertinant with the Nightfall campaign coming out relatively soon, melee classes are definately all the rage, and we'll be seeing a lot more of them in the GvG metagame, as if there aren't enough already. Currently, though, the only ones hauled in are Shock/AoD 'Sins, Shock/Adrenal-Spike Warriors, and a few various Ranger builds. To make them all just useless and force them to essentially just stand there most of the fight, the hexes of choice are: 2 copies of Spirit Shackles, Crippling Anguish, Clumsiness, Images of Remorse, Soothing Images, Blurred Vision, Shard Storm, Teinai's Prison, Malaise, Shadow of Fear, and Faintheartedness. Half of them I obviously chose to use as speed de-buffs, which can also be applied to tactical measures against other classes as well. The remaining anti-melee hexes are designed to get rid of their energy and adrenaline, make them attack much slower, and when they do actually get an attack off, miss it half the time. Sounds like shutdown to me. Only missing components are Blind and/or Weakness. Crippling Anguish could be replaced by a nice Signet of Midnight/Plague Touch combo, or the Touch Ranger could take either Throw Dirt or an Enfeeble-like spell. All possibilities to think about.

***Caster Shutdown***
This is where this build truely shines. Due to the 2 copies of the Migraine mesmer, within seconds of battle every caster on their team is going to have slow-cast hexes on their shoulders. The list of all the anti-caster skills are: Mark of Subversion, 2 copies of Migraine, Malaise, 2 copies of Arcane Conundrum, 3 Power Drains, 2 Leech Signets, and a Partridge in a Pear Tree (bear with me here it's past midnight and all). While outnumbered by the anti-melee hexes, what the build lacks in diversity it makes up for in sheer spammability. With Mantra of Persistence on the mesmers, and some short recharge times, one can expect very soon into battle to see every caster on the other side with both Migraine, AC, AND Malaise to boot. Your guys won't have to re-apply for under a minute, leaving much time for disruptings galore.

***Direct Damage***
This is the one thing this build could use more of. You've got a lot of indirect damage from half a dozen degen hexes spread around the other team, but degen does you no good if you don't have finisher damage. And for this particular build, we needed someone that could quickly dish out a boat-load of damage to finish off anyone on the other team whose health dipped just a tad too low. Regretably, the only thing I could think of to accomplish this quickly would be the Touch Ranger. I ultimately decided on keeping it because it can apply some decent damage pressure, as well as double-up with flag running as well.

***Support***
Since by nature this is a pressure build, the support skill slots used are only ones I felt absolutely needed to be in here to help the build prop up. The necro helps accomplish this by giving energy boosts to those lacking, corpse controlling with some health regenerators, healing the entire party, and screwing up some of the other party's healing with my favorite all-time hex/degen suppliment: Scourge Healing. Again, not alot, but what I think is just enough to help the build recover when the going gets rough.

***Backline***
Bear with me here again, for I chose a very non-traditional backline. First let me start with the Ritualist. I honestly believe the Rits have been largely overlooked in their capacity to be a monk replacement. I think they have better native energy management, have more aid possibilities, and can heal just as well. For this Rit, lay down the two spirits around where you know your backline will be. Keep Resiliant was Xiko on you as much as possible, you'd be surprised how helpful it can really be. With that item in your hand, use Soothing Memories for nice near-free heal bursts, Mend Body and Soul for the pesky condition removal, and Weapon of Warding for the anti-melee help. The second choice I made was to have a Blessed Light monk on the backline with the Rit. Again, not a conventional Blessed Light monk skillbar, but I felt those particular skills would complement the Rit best.

Now, any comments/criticism would be much appreciated. I really want to see just how far this thing can go.

MAdnRisKy
29-07-2006, 11:03
ok a few things.

You have a lot of squishies, a lot of mesmers, all in illusion and no distortion.

SORT THAT OUT!

secondly, touch rangers just do not cut it. Make him a warrior, enjoy using knockdowns and axes and put a draw conditions somewhere in the mid line to facilitate him.

Thirdly you don't need 2 migrane mesmers they'll overlap. here's an idea, use one with IoR and one with Conjure. Consider using a different elite, infact consider reworking the whole 3 mesmer in illusion thing :P (hint spirit of failure price of failure and reckless haste are lovely) and possibly think about expel on one.

fourthly you have a necro with support skills not curses skills, and you have an ele with necro skills, perhaps sort that out, to put necro skills on the necro (and get parasitic bond in there and price, and reckless, because its just SO damn good to start tossing those around and the mesmers won't have the problem of e management they have atm) ;)

oh and, how darw you run a water ele without deep freeze. SHAME on you.

Finally, *I* don't like your backline, but by all means try it out and see where you get.

arredondo
29-07-2006, 18:59
Well if you do get a gang together, I'll join in. Those matches were a lot of fun back then. I know first hand that it's not easy putting team builds together, so keep fleshing out your ideas until you get it to work the way you want them to.

For now, I'm helping out upier who's trying to get a solid Mesmer team to battle a group of Eles 8v8. I'll be talking tactics with any U.S. players who want to come by next Tuesday evening (http://forums.gwonline.net/showpost.php?p=4272434&postcount=56)(Aug. 1).

shamed
29-07-2006, 19:16
I don't like the idea of a touch ranger runner because almost every other kind of runner will be able to hinder you without your being able to get back at them. Cripshot, water, illusion. All will shut you down safely without fear of retaliation. I'd say swap out the Res Sig for Illusion of Haste on your M/N and let him be the runner.

As for the touch ranger, I'd suggest a esurge/burn mesmer instead. In the midst of the fight, you'll be able to do nice damage + edeny and when it comes down to knocking off that last bit of health, you can do it too and at range.

How about going Rt/Mo with your ritualist for Draw Conditions? With Resilient, Draw Conditions gives you free health and regen. Put your Inspiration points into Channeling and bring Spirit Siphon and Essence Strike instead for energy mangement. Swap out one instance of Drain Enchant on the Me/Mo and put Inspired Hex there instead.

Symbolic Self
30-07-2006, 05:23
I think eburn is a weak finisher. I'd try to either squeeze in PP + SD somewhere. I also second the recommendation to get deep freeze on that ele. In a pinch you could also use ice spikes to kill someone.

Come to think of it a W/A with siphon speed would be a good complement to this build. A covered siphon is very efficient at reducing the effectiveness of kiting, doubly so when combined with a speedboost, and warriors have a quick damaging spike to boot. But with only one melee that character may spend more time being shutdown than not, depending on your opponents.

Dogbert
31-07-2006, 15:55
I think eburn is a weak finisher. I'd try to either squeeze in PP + SD somewhere. I also second the recommendation to get deep freeze on that ele. In a pinch you could also use ice spikes to kill someone.

Come to think of it a W/A with siphon speed would be a good complement to this build. A covered siphon is very efficient at reducing the effectiveness of kiting, doubly so when combined with a speedboost, and warriors have a quick damaging spike to boot. But with only one melee that character may spend more time being shutdown than not, depending on your opponents.

I think the toucher will work well in this build.

1) No one needs to bring draw conditions.
2) Most hexes don't do anything to a toucher unlike a warrior.

Wish Resign
31-07-2006, 16:06
I think the toucher will work well in this build.

1) No one needs to bring draw conditions.
2) Most hexes don't do anything to a toucher unlike a warrior.

Except, that the water eles, crip shotters, etc. that you will most likely be fighting will completely shut you down and also make you useless to your team when you finally push the other team off the flag stand.

Also all the person, that you are attacking, has to do is kite you. Also as said many times before, the DPS on a touch ranger is quite low. Most monks will be hurt energy wise from the damage that you are dealing to the teammate that you are attacking.

Die In Basra
01-08-2006, 00:34
Um, how do you plan to kill people, again? You don't have any form of a spike, and the only damage comes from a single toucher, with a speed buff only 1/3rd of the time. Or is he your runner? :\ You'll have to get scourge on at least 4 people for it to even hurt, remeber, heal party heals the users as well, so only 160 damage goes to the person useing heal party-that takes the monk 5 energy to clean up, and your entire build is now finished. You have one scary hex, three if they have a blessed light or healing light monk. Your ritme has a useless elite. You are basicly done if they have expel hexes or more then one copy of heal party.

It's just too easily countered, going pure degen, and is a complete gamble- if they can't spare a person to run flags while he HP's, or they don't have two HP's, or an interupter that sits on your nec/mo, then you might do ok. If they have an expel, a blessed light, and an off-runner heal party, you are well an truly screwed, and no amount of tactics will win you that match. You can be split against easily with no boonprots and a very weak backline, if they do a 4/4 split you literally can't respond. Hell, even a 3/5.

I've done alot of degen builds, they're my favorite, and you just can't go over three of them without compromising your build. That much is good, because it might force their HP into heal party mode and get ahead on flags, or leave him without energy to blinding flash, it might mean that you can force thier expel,or whoevers bugging you, to kite and therefore limit thier defense against it. It just gives you alot to play with, having a few degeners but still keeping with a strong offense. A good oob curses necro can get -7 on 4 people easy, and a good edrain illusion mesmer with IoR, Conjure, and Mantra of Persistance can get -9 on ~3 people.

And I can understand your point about melee defense, but really, it's alot easier to keep a warrior clean then to make it dirty.

Aiko
01-08-2006, 06:33
Maybe get one of the mesmers to swap out Migraine for Arcane Langour? It's sure to get missed in the flood of hexes and really mess up an opposing monk with unremovable exhaustion.

On the E/N drop Shadow of Fear for Enfeebling Blood, it's range is quite high and you'll still have Faintheartedness for the slow?

A few Distortions probably wouldn't hurt either. Hard to say, may not need them though with that much shutdown.

Bobross
01-08-2006, 16:01
How about soul barbs and recurring insecurity? You've already got loads of hexes, this gives you a built in spike. When you're going to spike, lay on soul barbs and call a target, then everyone can have one hex that recharges quickly and doesn't overlap with other people's hexes, and each can cast that on the person at once....even if its not the most appropriate hex for that character.

fallot
01-08-2006, 17:40
How about soul barbs and recurring insecurity? You've already got loads of hexes, this gives you a built in spike. When you're going to spike, lay on soul barbs and call a target, then everyone can have one hex that recharges quickly and doesn't overlap with other people's hexes, and each can cast that on the person at once....even if its not the most appropriate hex for that character.

I don't think it will work at all, SB/RI relies on some very particular hexes to get the "spike" off. You'd have to fit that into your build such that it might just as well be ordinary SB/RI.

deathy
01-08-2006, 18:05
how about 1 or 2 necro or mesmers as /w's

they can wand while hexing for adrenaline, take 1 or 2 adrenal skills, say final thrust, then run in and kthxwtfpwn them^^

just 2 slots out of 64 for final thrust would be exactly what your looking for in terms of finishing damage as far as i can tell

arredondo
01-08-2006, 21:35
Why was this moved to GvG? We never once formed a guild or played GvG with our groups.

David Holtzman
01-08-2006, 22:28
Why was this moved to GvG?

Because it is a GvG build?

remmeh
02-08-2006, 14:55
there's no runner, which makes me believe that it's not a GvG build.
however you have only 2 people who make health bars go up, which makes me believe that it is a GvG build.

shrug.

Parker Bsb
02-08-2006, 17:29
Let me know where you want this moved altho it looks like a GvG build to me.

RoyalScion
02-08-2006, 23:01
there's no runner, which makes me believe that it's not a GvG build.
however you have only 2 people who make health bars go up, which makes me believe that it is a GvG build.

shrug.

A dedicated runner doesn't have to be in a GvG build. However, you're right about this not being a HoH build, as it doesn't have close to enough holding power.

Xunlai Agent
09-08-2006, 04:42
with the current metagame I think hex heavy teams have quite slim chances outside of the SB/RI spike (even that isn't as HOT as it used to be)....

David Holtzman
09-08-2006, 06:57
with the current metagame I think hex heavy teams have quite slim chances outside of the SB/RI spike (even that isn't as HOT as it used to be)....

Actually the exact opposite is true. The metagame is set to heavy offensive presure at the moment, and hex heavy teams eat that alive. Of course, the problem is that many teams are still running the old meta which gets rolled by thumpers (unless the old meta team is REALLY good) but anihilates hex teams.

Wuzzman
20-08-2006, 00:23
:grin:
Except, that the water eles, crip shotters, etc. that you will most likely be fighting will completely shut you down and also make you useless to your team when you finally push the other team off the flag stand.

Also all the person, that you are attacking, has to do is kite you. Also as said many times before, the DPS on a touch ranger is quite low. Most monks will be hurt energy wise from the damage that you are dealing to the teammate that you are attacking.

Water skills are used half assed in most gvg builds *cough*blindbot*cough* and crip shot.. add some more condition removing ultity would be nice... Also if the toucher knows to target the closses one to him when he is being slowed down then he would be fine. Also since the toucher ranger doesn't have to worry about melee he can bring two run skills instead of just one. Also touchers don't activate boon/prots enchantments like warriors and rangers do. The only bad thing is e-den on touchers and diversion and the likes. But teh build covers caster shut down.

Also there IS a such thing as a gvg build without a runner...its called tactics