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View Full Version : honest question re: iway



Ashin
30-07-2006, 10:28
This weekend I tried to see what Hero's Ascent was like. I had not ever tried it before, so I came expecting to feel like a noob but eager to learn. Now, never mind that D/Mo's own HA atm.. setting that aside..

My first experience was with an IWAY group. I understand some of the concepts involved in this build, but even so, I'm here to ask: why? Why is this team build like THE way that pugs try to organize themselves? Why is it so loved by players that have the communication skills of a small stone? Why are people so dedicated to it that I actually saw several players recruiting into their "IWAY guild" (yes, entire guilds devoted to the religion of IWAY).

After a few IWAY's I decided to boycott it, even if it meant not getting groups for long periods of time. And here's why. Every single IWAY experience I had went pretty much like this:

Step 1. the IWAY group takes about 30-40 minutes to form. The group leader is extremely specific as to each and every skill that each person on the team has. In one case, learning that someone was missing a needed skill, even AFTER we had won our first match, resulted in the entire team resigning.

Step 2. IWAY finally begins. Someone runs in early on the NPC's and starts the encounter before everyone was ready. This results in a mass resign and this step may be repeated up to five times.

Step 3. IWAY begins for real. We're fighting players. There is zero communication. The other team wins.

Step 4. The team disbands.

Now.. here's the strange part to me..

Step 5. Everyone who just had this negative experience with an IWAY group immediately renews their search for ANOTHER IWAY group!


The most fun I had all weekend was with a totally random pug that was fairly well balanced and had competent players who communicated and had a good sense of humor. We stuck through some rough spots, adapted a bit, and I earned like 8 points of fame from that one group that, by all accounts of everyone in HA, should have been a miserable failure.

The most annoying group was a trapper group whose leader pretended to know everything but who, it was painfully clear, didn't really have any situational awareness or ability to adapt (and he didn't know what dervishes were.. but he knew how to say "GET IN THE BALL" at a rapid pace)

The most I learned was in a dervish spike group and a foc spike group where the leaders were very competent and very harsh. But because they were competent I was ok with their harshness. I didn't enjoy myself but I learned something.. and got a fame point or two. But these highly structured teams didn't really do any better than my random pug that I enjoyed so much.


So, experienced PvP'ers, am I wrong to boycott IWAY? The only way I got invited to the two competent teams was because I specifically stated something like "Rt looking for a smart group, no IWAY pls." Please educate me. =)

Aiiane
30-07-2006, 18:49
IWAY is a template build.

It takes very little time/effort to organize (though if a rather ineffective organizer is doing so, it may take as long as any other group), and there is a large base of players who are at least familiar with it.

Against a group of equal organization, the build is such that it will win more often than just pure random determination would give you (namely, more than half of the time against a group of equal organization/skill).

That, in a nutshell, is why it is popular.

epsoul
30-07-2006, 21:59
Essentially, IWAY is popular because it used to be extremely overpowered (it's been nerfed, but its still fairly powerful) and a lot of people only did it to get their deer/wolf/tiger/phoenix. So, everyone was used to running it and many weren't proficient in anything else.

Ashin
31-07-2006, 09:34
I guess my confusion is that, for such an overpowered build, it seemed every IWAY group I was in failed miserably. Moreover it just didn't seem fun?

Someone explained it to me that IWAY is popular because it can do reasonably well with very little coordination or communication in the team. I guess that made the most sense.

Anyway I maintain my boycott and twice I was invited to really good teams only because I stated 'please no iway' in my LFG line I think. One person told me they were willing to take me into their guild team even tho I had no rank, purely on the basis that I could form coherent sentences. The bar is really pretty low in some of those HA districts. The typical IWAY team literally involves not a single line of text typed in team..

Eros Hayashi
31-07-2006, 11:22
i know this is sorta off topic but i cba to start a new thread, i just started pvp like him but took me hours to find a team, main reaons all teams wanted ranked members only so how the hell are any new pvpers goin to get any fame if they cant get a team? it sucks

Super Kenny
31-07-2006, 23:36
Hmm, I've never IWAY-ed in HA because of lack of communication.. I like talking on vent/ts while in a group..saves time and everything. BTW, when I first started HA, I just joined any group that needs a build that I can play.
Some ranked group even accepted me, and soon, you start making friends and boom, 100 fame a day. Heh, it's all about connections :)

Kalidri
01-08-2006, 05:45
I IWAY'd with friends. It was fun. Actually hilariously fun given the amount of grief people give you for running with the wolves :) I got a great deal of pleasure beating teams who were rotten to us, frankly they deserved it.

The experience with pugs...the uncommunicative ones that cussed at you if you so much as showed up with a bit of armor out of place? Could not compare with the IWAY with friends.

My assessment of IWAY is that its a hoot with people you know because it IS simple and you can sit on vent and joke around while you are setting up your spirits, putting in traps and martyring (I was the martyr ranger). With strangers it is pure hell and the fun just gets sucked out. I was great with my group, worked like clockwork and made a huge amount of fame with them, but the moment I was in a pug I could do nothing right in the eyes of the leaders.

I've since had equal fun with FoC, balance etc...because I knew the people involved. For me it's not the build, it's the team.

Ashin
01-08-2006, 08:29
i know this is sorta off topic but i cba to start a new thread, i just started pvp like him but took me hours to find a team, main reaons all teams wanted ranked members only so how the hell are any new pvpers goin to get any fame if they cant get a team? it sucks

Well in my limited experience you get into decent teams if you:

a) Can communicate like an adult.
b) Can play the build they need.
c) Reject IWAY =)

OK (c) is half-joking but honestly it helped me. For me, I am at a disadvantage because I do not have prophecies, and often they want the Rit to be Rt/R for frozen soil (which I cannot get). I let the team leader know up front to save time because I know its often requested. I tell them I do not have rank but I know how to play my class. Often good teams give people that speak like adults a chance.

Honestly tho I think you need a good guild and/or friends list to have much enjoyment from HA. The game itself is really cool but the average person making/joining pugs in the districts is another matter. In all seriousness most of them cannot read or type. Common example:

"RESIGN"
"RESIGN"
"RESIGN"
"type /resign"
"RESIGN"
"ok wtf is not resigning?"
..
..
...

"sry watchn tv"

??

opuis
01-08-2006, 18:14
I guess my confusion is that, for such an overpowered build, it seemed every IWAY group I was in failed miserably. Moreover it just didn't seem fun?

Someone explained it to me that IWAY is popular because it can do reasonably well with very little coordination or communication in the team. I guess that made the most sense.

Anyway I maintain my boycott and twice I was invited to really good teams only because I stated 'please no iway' in my LFG line I think. One person told me they were willing to take me into their guild team even tho I had no rank, purely on the basis that I could form coherent sentences. The bar is really pretty low in some of those HA districts. The typical IWAY team literally involves not a single line of text typed in team..

Iway isnt overpowered...It's just annoying. Annoying in the fact that every HA build you organize should be prepared for 4 warriors on them. That's all.

It's fairly easy to counter and easy to defeat. People who run it in guilds like MATH run it at it's best. Ive seen some r9 Iway groups who ran it well too. \

Also, you should try and download Vent and TS. This way you shouldnt really have to type.

Kalidri
01-08-2006, 18:50
Yeah IWAY is not overpowered. After playing it awhile our team had a 70% success rate in the first room - we actually did defeat some good guild teams...but when you repeat something enough, I would certainly hope so! Our success rate steadily decreased with each successive 'step up' in the Halls. We did win the hall once, but we could not hold the hall...standing on the platform and defending we were spiked down and did not have enough healing power (heh and it was a big shock to us...so we really had NO CLUE what to do there).

So why does it make fame? Because it is very very fast. You can go through the guards to get 10% morale, and you can generally blow through the first team you meet in just a few minutes. Once we were all commited for a few hours we could just go and go and go. We made fame not from cumulative wins but from winning the first 1-3 battles and from flawless battles over and over.

So yeah, its very beatable. Mind you this was 3-4 months ago so I don't know how its changed but it sounds like the odds are even worse. Lol, and I have a screen shot of my FoC team killing IWAY in 1:30. So umm...yeah there are foils to IWAY. No one complains about FoC.

Buddah
01-08-2006, 19:00
I guess my confusion is that, for such an overpowered build, it seemed every IWAY group I was in failed miserably.

It was just a really bad weekend to even try to IWAY with all the dervishes running lose. Dervishes are mobile IWAY counters, causing blindness, weakness, and crippling where ever they go.

tarathial
02-08-2006, 01:26
I guess my confusion is that, for such an overpowered build, it seemed every IWAY group I was in failed miserably. Moreover it just didn't seem fun?

Someone explained it to me that IWAY is popular because it can do reasonably well with very little coordination or communication in the team. I guess that made the most sense.

Anyway I maintain my boycott and twice I was invited to really good teams only because I stated 'please no iway' in my LFG line I think. One person told me they were willing to take me into their guild team even tho I had no rank, purely on the basis that I could form coherent sentences. The bar is really pretty low in some of those HA districts. The typical IWAY team literally involves not a single line of text typed in team..


Well I don;t know excatly but it seems that the guild MATH did/does very well using IWAY and they seemed to win a lot with it. So that might have been why it was and still is popular.

Sol Dethgard
02-08-2006, 09:32
Step 1. the IWAY group takes about 30-40 minutes to form. The group leader is extremely specific as to each and every skill that each person on the team has. In one case, learning that someone was missing a needed skill, even AFTER we had won our first match, resulted in the entire team resigning.

Step 2. IWAY finally begins. Someone runs in early on the NPC's and starts the encounter before everyone was ready. This results in a mass resign and this step may be repeated up to five times.

Step 3. IWAY begins for real. We're fighting players. There is zero communication. The other team wins.

Step 4. The team disbands.

Now.. here's the strange part to me..

Step 5. Everyone who just had this negative experience with an IWAY group immediately renews their search for ANOTHER IWAY group!Honestly that's about 95% of any pugs out there, they spend FOREVER making a group, they expect to own all without ever having played together, get mad cause they don't and rage quit. The teams that win halls everyday are people that have played together everyday and profected their builds, unfortunatly not everyone wants to do that.

Sol Dethgard
02-08-2006, 09:36
I IWAY'd with friends. It was fun. Actually hilariously fun given the amount of grief people give you for running with the wolves :) I got a great deal of pleasure beating teams who were rotten to us, frankly they deserved it.

The experience with pugs...the uncommunicative ones that cussed at you if you so much as showed up with a bit of armor out of place? Could not compare with the IWAY with friends.

My assessment of IWAY is that its a hoot with people you know because it IS simple and you can sit on vent and joke around while you are setting up your spirits, putting in traps and martyring (I was the martyr ranger). With strangers it is pure hell and the fun just gets sucked out. I was great with my group, worked like clockwork and made a huge amount of fame with them, but the moment I was in a pug I could do nothing right in the eyes of the leaders.

I've since had equal fun with FoC, balance etc...because I knew the people involved. For me it's not the build, it's the team.You hit the nail on the head, I refuse to be in any pug groups because they are not fun. I pve/farm until guild & friends are on then we get together and HA, we don't always win, but we have fun, which is something most pugs suck out of the game.

halfthought
15-08-2006, 01:19
who ever said iway was overpowered, not really... I never lost to I way when not playing Iway.... (including unranked bloodspike (I was in that)) against rank 9 I-way)

Snype Doesnt Heal
15-08-2006, 03:38
who ever said iway was overpowered, not really... I never lost to I way when not playing Iway.... (including unranked bloodspike (I was in that)) against rank 9 I-way)

if youve never lost to iway, you havent played enough

:grin:

Sadistic Nightmare
15-08-2006, 05:41
who ever said iway was overpowered, not really... I never lost to I way when not playing Iway.... (including unranked bloodspike (I was in that)) against rank 9 I-way)
and we are supposed to believe this?


Honestly that's about 95% of any pugs out there, they spend FOREVER making a group, they expect to own all without ever having played together, get mad cause they don't and rage quit. The teams that win halls everyday are people that have played together everyday and profected their builds, unfortunatly not everyone wants to do that.

I agree, which is why I dont bother with "balance" pugs now.. Iway all the way

David Holtzman
15-08-2006, 07:26
I never lost to I way when not playing Iway.... (including unranked bloodspike (I was in that)) against rank 9 I-way)

You are either fantastically lucky or fantastically lying. Either way, your comments aren't very useful.

Tranquilis
15-08-2006, 20:20
You hit the nail on the head, I refuse to be in any pug groups because they are not fun.You're missing out, then. That's fine - more random players for me to team with. ;)

Seriously, I have a Friends list as long as my arm, good people all, each skilled and capable with their characters, and each willing to stick it out when things turn nasty. How did I find them? Playing in random PUGs. In any particular group, you may only find one or two players that are good, but if you remember who the skilled players are, you'll quickly build a list of fun, friendly people. Now, some of these people I've been playing with off and on for months now - They'll look me up just to see how my chars are coming along, to ask for help, and so on - It's like having a my own private guild of non-guildies, to go along with my real guild. So, like when I lucked into a random elite group and we started racking up win after win (16 in a row), it just got more and more fun as we went. I'd have never found those guys and gals if I'd stuck purely to my guild.

Sure, sometimes I'll wind up in a group of losers, or a get into an IWAY group and get spiked horribly because there's no coordination, but if I won every time, it'd get boring, ya know?

Mr Dbest
16-08-2006, 18:51
Sure, sometimes I'll wind up in a group of losers, or a get into an IWAY group and get spiked horribly because there's no coordination, but if I won every time, it'd get boring, ya know?


Not so sure about that...I could probably amuse myself with my pheonix gotten from all those wins... =]