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deathy
01-08-2006, 10:41
http://gwshack.us/e78b0

I will post a more deatiled description later, but at the moment just keep in mind we have a unique 'dual spiking' system in our guild...

Jummeh
01-08-2006, 12:34
You might wanna add the attributes aswell.

Commenting on the build, you only have 3 hex removal skills, the current metagame is rather hex heavy, so you might find trouble keeping your warriors clean. Lack of CoP on your monks mean that they will be run down by hexes much easier also.

I prefer guilt/shame to e-burn, its a form of energy management also and it hurts monks a hell of a lot more. Also in synergy with diversion, it can be indefinate shutdown for a monk. Of course it doesn't suppliment your adreno spike though. So maybe run one e-burn and one guilt/shame.

Warriors look ok, although your hammer will miss IB dearly, DC is nice but the recharge is so annoying, but I have yet to find a skill to do its job.

Almas Darksoul
01-08-2006, 13:20
I would rethink the ranger. He has the only spammable conditions in the build, so any enemy with just one copy of extinguish can pretty much remove atleast half of his pressure.

You might want to think of replacing him with an e/mo with Ward Against Melee to protect your fragile mesmers (no distortion) from spikes, as they may end up being forced fairly far forward. He could also run extinguish, freeing up a slot for self healing on your flag runner.

That said, I know some people like to steer clear of the 2w 2me 2e 2mo build structure

deathy
01-08-2006, 13:22
You might wanna add the attributes aswell.

Commenting on the build, you only have 3 hex removal skills, the current metagame is rather hex heavy, so you might find trouble keeping your warriors clean. Lack of CoP on your monks mean that they will be run down by hexes much easier also.
i disagree, with MoR, remove hex recharges in 3-4 seconds...



I prefer guilt/shame to e-burn, its a form of energy management also and it hurts monks a hell of a lot more. Also in synergy with diversion, it can be indefinate shutdown for a monk. Of course it doesn't suppliment your adreno spike though. So maybe run one e-burn and one guilt/shame.
yeah as i said unique dual spiking system ^^, but i will try it out in a few gvgs


Warriors look ok, although your hammer will miss IB dearly, DC is nice but the recharge is so annoying, but I have yet to find a skill to do its job.
again...dual spking...dc helps each of the warrior quickly teleport to a target if they are needed for the spike

deathy
01-08-2006, 13:34
I would rethink the ranger. He has the only spammable conditions in the build, so any enemy with just one copy of extinguish can pretty much remove atleast half of his pressure.
Theres alot of damage and interrupts, which is the primarily purpose of that character, bleeding is just a side affect...
Also, our current build uses 2 rangers, so it would be hard to switch straight to no rangers


You might want to think of replacing him with an e/mo with Ward Against Melee to protect your fragile mesmers (no distortion) from spikes, as they may end up being forced fairly far forward. He could also run extinguish, freeing up a slot for self healing on your flag runner.
Would ward against melee on the ranger work? Is it affected by expertise?


That said, I know some people like to steer clear of the 2w 2me 2e 2mo build structure
Our current build has no mesmers and flag runner ele, so it would be hard to completely switch so quickly...

Jummeh
01-08-2006, 13:34
45 seconds per spike? =/

RE: Hexes. Sure rem hex recharges in 3-4 seconds, para bond, life siphon recharges in 2.

deathy
01-08-2006, 13:37
45 seconds per spike? =/

RE: Hexes. Sure rem hex recharges in 3-4 seconds, para bond, life siphon recharges in 2.

normally the warriors can either run to target or just spike alone with other characters, dc is only for when we need a garuanteed kill

what other hex removal would you suggest? on what characters?

Parker Bsb
01-08-2006, 15:25
I'd drop MoR on one of the mes and go with Expel.

I'd drop MoR on the monks for Edrain - it's a much more efficient form of energy with a switch (foci+wand= 40% faster recharge chance) and it kills some of their energy.

Also can you explain the dual spike, it seems you'll be relying on the runner to help out and they will be 90% of the time running back and forth.

deathy
01-08-2006, 15:43
well orignally our build, was 2 warriors, 2 rangers, 1 rt lord with doom, which was alot of spike, basically both warriors look out for a targat to spike, and both are able to call, so we try and keep even mini spikes fairly frequent,
when the enemy have dp, the dual spking comes in especially useful as we only need 1 warrior to join in with the spike to kill them

however, with the loss of doom and the second ranger, it may not be as effective.

the skills on the mesmer are based on used MoR, which skills would i need to change,(and on which mesmer)to make it effective?

Ace Bear
01-08-2006, 18:18
Most of the stuff mentioned so far I don't see as a big problem you need to take care of except for the second Mes being a Expel Hex mesmer. Just change MoR for Expel Hexes and Remove Hex for something else(Overload! :D).

One thing I did notice that hasn't been mentioned yet. How will you mitigate the other team's damage? All I see is Aegis and "Watch Yourself". Many teams use a Emo or something to slow that damage so their monks don't have to heal 24/7(much easier on energy management) however with your build if you want to keep everything but add more pressure I would suggest change the Ranger to a cripshot Ranger.

This will give you 2 conditions instead of 1, a snare to stop their Wars from freely moving around in your mid-back line(no the Emo's snare doesn't count since he will be running around most of that time). Plus poison on alot of their team will definitely give them some degen to deal with along with the spikes coming every so often.

deathy
01-08-2006, 18:51
k expel it is

dont forget, constant aegis and watch yourself is still a hell of alot of damage mitigation...

also by swtiching the ranger, it takes away a bit from the spike, i will try it out though however

Thanks for the help

Jummeh
02-08-2006, 00:17
Becareful with aegis, its IB fodder. It can actually be quite dangerous for the monks.

As for DC, have you tried "To the Limit" ? It is an insanely overpowered skill. It will mean your spikes come in at a much faster rate. Heck, dev is fully charged in about 2.5 seconds.

Ace Bear
02-08-2006, 04:57
dont forget, constant aegis and watch yourself is still a hell of alot of damage mitigation...
What I was refering to in general was that MANY builds(pressure, spike, degen, balanced) included some way to spike a target. And a prerequisite to spiking is generally stripping the target right before the target is spiked so JUST 1 enchantment won't really have an effect. That is why I suggested the Ranger being a Cripshot ranger to slow down their Wars from just tramping around anywhere.

Although if you want to keep the damage in the spike high(the Ranger changing to Cripshot won't reduce your spike btw) change to another E/mo having blinding flash as a nice little shutdown for Wars. The E/mo would easily be able to spike, hell they can do that very well.

deathy
02-08-2006, 13:04
version 2: (let us edit our posts!)
http://gwshack.us/cdb7b

ill discuss to the limit with my guild

Parker Bsb
02-08-2006, 15:30
TTL works great in fast spike builds, but if you have several long recharge skills it's not worth it.

TTL can keep your adren up indefinatly tho so it is always a good skill, but I don't know if it woud work with the build you have.

Ok back to the build:
Axe war - drop rush for sprint
Ranger - drop dual for hunters, OR a run skill to double as a backup runner
Ele - I'd consider using earth instead of air, wards can really help out, and with about 8 they last decently long.

Monks - I despise MoR but that's a personal thing, I really don't like having 2 bars that are near identical as it makes you easy to counter. Have you considered running a blight monk as your second?

Mes - Look fine to me, assuming you are staying midline and blacking out warriors rather than pushing into their monks for blackout - in which case I'd get distortion in there somewhere (likley at the expense of draw and gale).

flaming caster
03-08-2006, 08:24
i have to agree with the poster above me,
a blessed light monk is a verry good alternative these days
it also counters shadow shroud spikes wich completely shutdown both boonprot from healing the target