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Laibeus Lord
05-08-2006, 22:08
Was reading the GWP and GWF manuscripts, analyzing, comparing, you-know.

I noticed something, when the word "Tyria" is used, it is referring to the continent and not the "world" or "planet" (or whatever you want to call it).

Some examples:
1) The Forgotten only exists in the Continent of Tyria (if Elona is connected, then in Elona as well).

GWF Manuscript p.45 states that:


"Tyrian visitors claim that the serpentine Naga resemble the Forgotten of the northern continent."


Simply means that the Forgotten never landed or touched the Continent of Cantha right?



"The Serpents were summoned by the old gods out of the rift to 'shepherd the other creatures of the land through this time of transition, while the gods continued to create the world around them.'"

(GWP manuscript, forgot to write down the page number).

Which means, the old gods created the landmass of Tyria first than the other landmass, possible?




786 BE or Late Pre-Imperial Era (275 PIE): Humans appear in the Continent of Cantha for the first time and settle the Northern coastline before spreading completely across the continent.
Their development is unhindered by the Forgotten.

GWF Manuscript Unified Timeline.



Could it be that all this time we were interpreting the references to "Tyria" as referring to the "world" when it is literally referring to the continent itself?

Another example, The gods gave magic to the "inteligent race of Tyria", how about the other continents then?

Could it be that the other continents gained magic because they had travellers when the old gods gave the gift of magic?

Example, by the time the old gods gave the gift of magic, the Empire of the Dragon already have an embassy and an ambassador in the Kingdom of Ascalon for 99 years already. The embassy/ambassador was established on 100BE and the gods gave the gift of magic on 1BE.

Could some of the Shining Blade members originated from Elona, say like their leader? (can't remember her name). And we also know already (Scribe #10) that one of Elona's provinces borders the "Crystal Desert", then could it be that they acquired magic and learned of the old gods because of the Tyrian civilizations?


There are other stuff that is strongly supporting this, but there is one major problem:

GWP Manuscript said: "And the gods leave Tyria."

That one line contradicts everything that GWP and GWF manuscripts provides us (and maybe in-game texts as well) that the events in Tyria is solely to Tyria.

What do you think? I like to hear refutes to this claim ^_^ Will help in the interpretation of some stuff in the timeline.


PS
Some non-lore possibilities:
1) When they wrote the manuscript, they haven't finalized the SL of the other campaigns;
2) They haven't really thought of "the gods leave the Planet whatever" and wrote instead "the gods leave Tyria";
3) They just want to put conflicting SLs so we can't close it (which many modern writers do).

:p

Yota Warrior
05-08-2006, 22:18
It could refer to both the continent and the world. In the Guidebook it also says that the gods were in Cantha at the same time they were in Tyria. It also shows that they left the exact time they left from the continent Tyria.

It also shows that the forgotten were also in Cantha as well, it's just that they were never disturbed by the native Canthans.

Heelz
05-08-2006, 22:31
I interpreted the "unhindered by the Forgotten" line as the Canthans were able to develop faster than Tyrians because there were no Forgotten on the continent.

Laibeus Lord
05-08-2006, 22:36
Yah, same here @Heelz.

@Yota, guidebook, you mean the one that is "sold separately" for Factions?
Was it by ANet or a third-party publication/writer ??

Coz if it is 'cannon', then it will be in conflict with ANet's GWF Manuscript (p45):


"Tyrian visitors claim that the serpentine Naga resemble the Forgotten of the northern continent."


When they could just write "The people thinks that the serpentine Naga resemble the Forgotten."

Hmm, now I am curious what is in that guidebook.

teh Monkeys
05-08-2006, 22:55
The historian who compiled the prophecies manuscripts refers to the GW world as Tyria because he is from Tyria. Tyria was more or less the "known world", just like how the Mediterranean was back in the ancient days.

Quintus Antonius
05-08-2006, 23:03
Either Gaile or the Frog said that when they say "Tyria" it is both the world and the continent of Prophecies.

Laibeus Lord
05-08-2006, 23:17
Ahh its official.
Hmm, now which is which. Which refers to the continent only and which refers to the "planet" in the GWP manuscript.

Some "Tyria" usage could be either so its hard to tell.
1) Forgotten - Tyria continent only?
2) the gods "took back" magic - Tyria continent only? - this seems to be concentrated too much on Tyria to be the "planet"?? - but then the "magic-war" could be happening in the different continents...


Hmm wait... it could be that the when the old gods gave magic "to Tyria" it was referring to the "continent itself".

And then, when the Bloodstones was spewn by the volcano, it spread across "Tyria" (the planet) and gave magic to the rest of the "planet Tyria". Coz, the "magic-war" was specifically referring to the continent of Tyria, which could be proven because the gods don't have any knowledge of the "magic-war" raging on (???)

Since the scattering of the Bloodstones "across Tyria" (GWP Manuscript), no one found it all yet and was even written that they will never get together again (if I remember it correctly, its not in my notes).

Hmm... ehe, thanks in advance (I'll go play in the Elite Missions for now).

Durza the Shadeking
06-08-2006, 03:06
I interpreted the "unhindered by the Forgotten" line as the Canthans were able to develop faster than Tyrians because there were no Forgotten on the continent.

From the guidbook (the one not sold with the game) we know that the Forgotten were in all Tyria, the planet. The word "unhidered" means basicly, undisturbed. The Guidbooks says the Cathan Humans 1st appeared on the tip of Shing Jea Island and built their exmpire from there. The Serpents started to withdraw so they never came in contact with the human residants of Cantha.

Quintus Antonius
06-08-2006, 03:11
Also, the Manuscripts talk about the Old Gods giving magick to the races of Tyria. In the Factions Lore Guide in the Prima Guide, it talks about Ritualists being in touch with the spirits before this, and adopting Grenth and their other various gods after magick was granted. In this paragraph, it specifically states "after magic was given to the races of Tyria", meaning the planet.

Laibeus Lord
06-08-2006, 05:34
Hmm, I should buy that Prima Guide then if it is considered "cannon".

Santax
06-08-2006, 10:08
Magic was given to the planet as a whole, and there WAS Forgotten in Cantha, but since humans only settled on Shing Jea Island and the northwest corner of the mainland, they never came into conflict and a contest for resources. All the Forgotten in the world left at the same time, when the Forgotten in Tyria departed en masse for the Crystal Desert, Forgotten in Cantha left too, but to unknown whereabouts.

Laibeus Lord
06-08-2006, 12:05
Hmm, how many other publications are there that is considered a cannon for GW?
Store links perhaps?? (another air delivery :/ )

Quintus Antonius
06-08-2006, 15:28
As far as I know, the canonical works published which TAOS officially recognizes are legitmate sources of lore are The Guild Wars Manuscripts, The Art of Guild Wars, Guild Wars: Factions Manuscripts, The Art of Guild Wars: Factions, the lore guide in the official Factions Prima Guide, the booklet that game with the GW:F preorder box, and any official publication or recognition by the devs (Gaile and co.).

Laibeus Lord
08-08-2006, 05:37
Ok thanks, I will look for the Art of GW series and the Prima Guide GW series.

That's sad tho that some canon lore are in a separate book. That somewhat cancels out the purpose of the manuscripts. Maybe if they want to release additional canon lore, they might as well write a book about it, coz well personally, I'll be wasting money and shipping cost for a Prima Guide where what I only need is the lore part :/

Oh well... (tho seriously, they should just write a book, story-based, or Lore Book, just not some third-party publication..)

lavenbb
08-08-2006, 07:50
Lore lovers are still the minority IMO, it is unlikely that they'll publish a book just for lore.. it probably isn't worth it for them..

Laibeus Lord
08-08-2006, 11:16
True. Unlike *ehemmWoWehemm*.

But its good to know the certain stories. Hmm, an idea, maybe they should offer an option for writers to be granted canon status for their fanfictions and thus turning it into canon. hehe ;)

Quintus Antonius
08-08-2006, 17:50
We are a very vocal, and very influencial minority though. You have to keep that in mind. We've already seen some of our ideas be translated to in-game circumstance, and I've always had trouble believing we just coincidentally thought up the same things as the writers. I think ANet has been giving nods to lore fans, in specific, these forums' lore fans, in many ways. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lore book published. Not as stand alone product, but as a inclusion in a package such as a CE.

teh Monkeys
08-08-2006, 18:35
Haha, suffering from illusions of grandeur, eh Quintus? :p

Quintus Antonius
08-08-2006, 18:38
Come on, Monkeys, even you have to agree that some of it is just too convienant. I feel like we are the writers, haha. Now if we could just have some say on the voice acting, we'd be set.

Anyway, we are dragging this way too far off-topic. Right-o. Tyria, continent, planet, tasty partyfavor.

Tuor Son Of Huor
09-08-2006, 09:38
I wish they hadnt stopped writing the Lore updates to the official website: i was genuinely interested in those.

As for the name of Tyria; I support the theory that Tyria refers to BOTH the world and the continent.

I will go a few steps further to try and bring everything together:

The intelligent races were at first created and lived in Tyria the continent, hindered and harrassed by the forgotten.
Some Humans begin to migrate and explore for regions where the Forgotten will not harm them; thus Cantha and Elona were established; these civilisations flourished, while the 3 kingdoms of Tyria (the continent) fought amongst one another and lived in a "Medieval/dark ages" era. Thus the Elonians and Canthans were able to seek Ascension before the Tyrians (this is speculation on my part: I can only support the Elonian claim to be among the first to attempt ascension.)

Durza the Shadeking
09-08-2006, 10:09
I wish they hadnt stopped writing the Lore updates to the official website: i was genuinely interested in those.

As for the name of Tyria; I support the theory that Tyria refers to BOTH the world and the continent.

I will go a few steps further to try and bring everything together:

The intelligent races were at first created and lived in Tyria the continent, hindered and harrassed by the forgotten.
Some Humans begin to migrate and explore for regions where the Forgotten will not harm them; thus Cantha and Elona were established; these civilisations flourished, while the 3 kingdoms of Tyria (the continent) fought amongst one another and lived in a "Medieval/dark ages" era. Thus the Elonians and Canthans were able to seek Ascension before the Tyrians (this is speculation on my part: I can only support the Elonian claim to be among the first to attempt ascension.)

Some Problems with your logic...

1.Humans appeared in Cantha first, (we don't know about Elona).
2.For a very long time, The Ascalonians were alone in their kingdom, which grew into the main part and two colonies. So the real qubling was only during the Guild Wars.

Tuor Son Of Huor
10-08-2006, 16:50
You are correct about Cantha being established 1st. The rest of my argument was based on that pact, and as such ; holds no water. All that is left is my personal feeling on the matter -
I still maintain that Tyria refers to the world AND the continent.

I'm stubborn like that :D

Tuor Son Of Huor
10-08-2006, 16:58
I will supply another piece of evidence to support my theory:

Both Canthan AND Mouvelian calendars have the same entries:


1769 BE / Middle pre-imperial era Serpents arrive in Tyria.

174 AE / 684 CC Serpents leave the world of men.

This is a linguistic clue: the name Tyria was substituted with "the world of Men" which, I'm sure you will agree, includes both Tyria the Continent and Cantha.


205 BE / 305 CC Humans appear on the Tyrian continent.

Again, the language gives us cues: the word continent was placed deliberately to indicate that Tyria had been inhabited AFTER the Canthan continent.


1 BE / 509 CC The Old Gods give magic to the races of Tyria.

And finally, this clue comes along. The Old Gods wouldnt simply give magic to the dwarves, Charr, Humans and Grawl living in Tyria: they would bestow it on ALL RACES: even those in Cantha. Therefore Cantha is part of the World "Tyria"

-----------------------

Of course, this brings into question whether or not the Titans would have spilled over into Cantha, but that is for another thread :D


I'm stubborn like that :D

Quintus Antonius
10-08-2006, 17:36
And that's just evidence from Prophecies. There is also a lot of evidence from Factions too. For instance, it discusses how the Ritualists became familiar with Grenth after magic was given to the races of Tyria and changed what the Ritualist could do.