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Dragonfire Archer
10-08-2006, 04:01
Hi All
I was wondering in your guys opionions, what are the best GvG and HoH builds. For me:

HoH:

-Smiter build is always great when u have your self in a circle using the heal area/jameis healing circle build
-somehow Blood Spike always makes it into the top. Works for me!:grin:
-IWAY is probably the second best build ever(to Blood Spike) [sorry IWAYers:rolleyes:]


GvG:

-Ranger Spike using the Penetrating/Sundering and Punushing Shot build.
-Usually having a ranger oath trapper/spammer is useful.
-Having at least 1 or 2 assasin to solo the enemy Archers and bodyguards kicks butt(preferrably the Shadow Form and Arcane Echo build)
-the Pack Hunter(R/W Ferocious Strike-Hammer) build with a dual or triple smite build

Do any of you use these? Please give suggestions. My guild loses at GvG a lot.

shamed
10-08-2006, 12:01
I'm going to predict that every single person who replies in thie thread will give you the same answer that I am going to give you: there is no best build.

By definition, a best build has to be designed such that there are less counters to it than any other build out there. Were there such a build, there would be no logical sense in running anything else if you are playing to win. I'm sure if ANet wanted to encourage mass sheeping then such a build would exist; however, ANet seems to have this silly idea that everything in the game should have a counter and what is more important than the build itself is the skill of the players running it. How strange to think you can't blindly copy skill bars from Observer Mode and win huh?

tarutaru
10-08-2006, 14:04
Beat me to it. :grin:

SImply put: there is no "best build." Every build in GuildWars has a counter, and a counter to that counter, and so on and so forth. However there are a few guidlines to how to make a really good build that will do well in either PvP circumstance:

HoH
1. Ensure that you're incorporating skills that allow you to hold the hall of heroes. Long holding runs are going to be what gets you the big fame at the end of the day.
2. Don't bring specific counters to uncommon or rarely seen builds. Instead, examine your team as a whole, and see whether there are any innate counters. Look at what attributes you're using the most, and what skills are expendable. Browse through the skill catalog again, and this time look for general skills that work in your team dynamic, but also have the added benefit of happening to be a good counter to other types of teams.
3. Diversity, diversity, diversity. There is too much of a good thing. If there is no variety in your skills or builds, then you're an open book to very easy counters. Point in case: in iway, so many melee means that when other teams pack warrior hate just for the hell of it, they are completely countering your game. Spice up your builds, and try to shy away from FotM's.
4. Balance. No, I'm not talking about making that European balanced fotm from months ago. I'm saying that you need to ensure that your offense, defense, support, healing, and debuffs are in harmony. Too much of one and less of another is usually what makes great theoretical builds go down the toilet.

That's enough for now. More later. Final note: packhunters are not R/W's. Those are bunny thumpers. Packhunters were R/P's during the Nightfall PvP preview event.

Parker Bsb
10-08-2006, 14:52
First off the usual speach "There is no best build bla bla bla...."

Now, my favourite build for GvG involves a pure pressure build using 2 warriors, 1 disease necro, and 1 edenial mes.

DutchSmurf
10-08-2006, 16:45
If your guild is losing alot, consider running something simple. Like thumpers or any kind of spike (OF-spike, rangerspike, ect). Easier to run then balanced and you are likely to win in the top 500+ range too. And as you play more, you will find that you improve, even on something as lame as a thumper.

And of course, there isn't a best build. There are best builds for certain players. Like Rus being great as spikers, but not that good on balanced. And myself being great on mesmers, but worthless on monks. Find out what the favourite characters of your guild are and try to make a build with them. Last hint, be careful with the use of assassins.

Aiiane
10-08-2006, 21:49
To join the bandwagon: there are not best builds.

There are builds that are efficient and simple to run, while still being effective. There are a few of these that have been discovered, and have evolved, and there are some that are still waiting to be discovered.

But they are by far not the only builds with the same level of effectiveness, nor are they necessarily the most effective.

Suppemand
11-08-2006, 16:08
Answer to both is: IWAY
IWAY pwns all, if you play IWAY you can't lose.


Not really true. I'm joining the bandwagon too, there is no best build. For some tips about designing a GvG build you might wanna read this: http://www.guildwars.com/competitive/articles/stateofthegame/gvgbasics.php

Dragonfire Archer
11-08-2006, 21:32
I mean, what build do you like the best! Sorry for the mixup

Latbec
12-08-2006, 13:40
The best build is the one that allows your players to progress and become better at playing the game. Everything that is considered balanced, where everybody has an important role: this will allow your players to equally becomes better. There are many variations of such, which you can easily see on the observer mode.

Spike builds like ranger spike for example will give your guild a good rating but won't allow your players to progress. Eventually, when you will start playing balanced, you will realize that your rating does not correspond to the talent of your players, you will start losing and you will revert to spike. Playing spike is making your own prison: you will never get out of it.

DutchSmurf
12-08-2006, 16:07
The best build is the one that allows your players to progress and become better at playing the game. Everything that is considered balanced, where everybody has an important role: this will allow your players to equally becomes better. There are many variations of such, which you can easily see on the observer mode.

Spike builds like ranger spike for example will give your guild a good rating but won't allow your players to progress. Eventually, when you will start playing balanced, you will realize that your rating does not correspond to the talent of your players, you will start losing and you will revert to spike. Playing spike is making your own prison: you will never get out of it.

I don't agree here. Unlike what most people think, I think that spiking does learn you something. It doesn't learn you how to play balanced, but it does learn you something about things like communication. Most good balanced team will (or should?) try to split against you if your spike is good. To react on that in a proper way, you need good communication and good movement. 2 things that are very important in a balanced build too. What does balanced learn you that spiking doesn't?

Dazz the enchanter
12-08-2006, 23:44
well, considering 90% of mid to high level GvG kills come from a spike anyways, i dont see why people have such a problem with builds solely centered around this killing method anyways. at the end of the day, its still a "spike in 3 2 1" thats gonna get you on the road to victory within most builds, Check out observer, if you are still not convinced.

On topic: after you decided its a "your best build" thread, it would have to be the 2 warrior frontline, with 2 softies, e-surge/warrior hate nec/flash bot/smiter and some form of character capable of ganking, Hotstepper(cool name EW, so ill use it:grin: ), cripshot, etc. 1 boon, 1 blessed, and teh e/mo flagger.

deathy
13-08-2006, 13:17
thats about 11 players ^^

Aiiane
13-08-2006, 17:55
thats about 11 players ^^

I believe the players separated by slashes were choices for the '2 softies' bit. Which makes 8.

TheVindexus
14-08-2006, 13:21
I'd have to say Crip Shotter. Two awesome interupts, survivability of Distortion, the usefullness of Blackout, decent armor, a good snare and all of that with a wee bit o' degen.

Nekretaal
14-08-2006, 15:28
Every Time a build gets created that can consistently beat the "balanced" GvG build of (2) Boon prots (1) Domination Mesmer (1) Ether Progidy Heal Party Ele (2) Warriors with knockdown and (2) Misc [cripshot, monk, curse necro, illusion mesmer, warrior, Rt Lord, smiter, basically anything]...... anet nerfs that build.

Learn to play Balanced. The nerfdogs at anet seem to like it, and you arent at a risk of seeing your build get nerfed (Indeed, it will usually get buffed with the skill updates).

Vela
14-08-2006, 17:23
Hi All
I was wondering in your guys opionions, what are the best GvG and HoH builds.

.......................................

Do any of you use these? Please give suggestions. My guild loses at GvG a lot.


There is NO best build.

My suggestion to your guild GvGers is to play whatever balanced build you guys can play 4 to 5 times a day everyday. Don't change anything in the build unless you have understood the weakness in the build.

Don't want to hurt your self esteem here, but, the thread topic forces me to suggest that you play a very balanced starter build that makes everyone to play his/her role. Play at least 50 matches.

3-2-1 Spike may give you a few nice wins against a few weaklings, but, people who are great spikers, can surprise you with their ability in playing balanced. Have you ever seen [iQ]'s blood spike? In reality, a lot of things need to work between losing and winning. A lot of fundamentals need to be learnt and executed. The only way you learn that is by playing again and again in variety of roles.

So, I will say again, as a starter guild, play GvGs with a balanced team. And play every single role in that balanced build to find out who does what, why, when and how.....rather, needs to.

My fiddy 2 cents..

Vel

defrule
15-08-2006, 02:23
There is a best build. When Nightfall comes out, 6 pack hunters and 2 boons will be the best build. If it isn't, I will make sure it is. lol

Just trying to show my love for that premade :D

Dazz the enchanter
15-08-2006, 18:40
im pretty certain when nightfall arrives there will be no packhunter template..but thats for another thread, best not stray off topic :grin:

Sword Breaker
30-08-2006, 18:59
well, considering 90% of mid to high level GvG kills come from a spike anyways, i dont see why people have such a problem with builds solely centered around this killing method anyways. at the end of the day, its still a "spike in 3 2 1" thats gonna get you on the road to victory within most builds, Check out observer, if you are still not convinced.
Not necessarily true. Although many balanced builds kill with Adrenaline spike, there plenty of high level gvg builds that only use a spike when things aren't dieing. Once that spike goes through, then its back to pressure. Btw in most cases, Pressure>spikes, of course... not always true though. The thing with pressure builds is that they can focus their damage on many targets at once, instead of just one (or maybe one+adjacent/nearby targets), and in the end get out more DPS than a spike. Plus I agree that while spikes may get you the skill you need in tactics, such as facing a split, it will not give the spikers any actual "playing skill" aside from knowing when to better press 2 buttons. Anyway, answering the original question, my FAVORITE gvg build would be my guilds most hated 2 W/N, 2 Thump, N/mo tainted, 2 regular boons, 1 e/mo runner.

Nortos
31-08-2006, 08:41
I'd have to say Crip Shotter. Two awesome interupts, survivability of Distortion, the usefullness of Blackout, decent armor, a good snare and all of that with a wee bit o' degen.

No best build even 1vs1 against a cripple even if he has recurve bow exp players can dodge it by strafing

DutchSmurf
31-08-2006, 14:47
Not necessarily true. Although many balanced builds kill with Adrenaline spike, there plenty of high level gvg builds that only use a spike when things aren't dieing. Once that spike goes through, then its back to pressure. Btw in most cases, Pressure>spikes, of course... not always true though. The thing with pressure builds is that they can focus their damage on many targets at once, instead of just one (or maybe one+adjacent/nearby targets), and in the end get out more DPS than a spike. Plus I agree that while spikes may get you the skill you need in tactics, such as facing a split, it will not give the spikers any actual "playing skill" aside from knowing when to better press 2 buttons. Anyway, answering the original question, my FAVORITE gvg build would be my guilds most hated 2 W/N, 2 Thump, N/mo tainted, 2 regular boons, 1 e/mo runner.

If you think spiking is just pressing 2 buttons over and over, you never played a good spiketeam. And what is the difference with some of the current characters, like a thumper? You just hit a skill every time it recharges. Compared to that a spiker is much harder and needs far more skill. Things like positioning, ward placement, LoS, pushing up, falling back, ect, ect. All things you learn in a spiketeam, but not with a thumper. Don't rememeber anyone answering my last question, what do you learn in a "balanced" build that you don't learn in a spikebuild?

Dogbert
31-08-2006, 20:24
For ha i don't know the best build.
For gvg the best build is by far a balanced build.

Ranger spike best in gvg? You gotta be kidding me. Spike teams used to be fairly efficient on burning isle before they nerfed the Sentinels.

Wm had no trouble beating iq running ranger spike even on that small map in gvg championship.

That's about it.

DutchSmurf
01-09-2006, 00:06
For ha i don't know the best build.
For gvg the best build is by far a balanced build.

Ranger spike best in gvg? You gotta be kidding me. Spike teams used to be fairly efficient on burning isle before they nerfed the Sentinels.

Wm had no trouble beating iq running ranger spike even on that small map in gvg championship.

That's about it.

1) that was evil, not wm
2) who said rangerspike was the best build?

Dogbert
01-09-2006, 17:44
1) that was evil, not wm
2) who said rangerspike was the best build?

1) Evil or warmachine what's your point exacly?
2) The original poster?

Aire
02-09-2006, 19:21
2 Warriors, 2 Mesmers, 2 Emos, 2 Monks is the current metagame. Although builds are currently focusing on more pressure and offense with rangers instead of Mesmers. (Crippling Shot + Melandru's Arrows + 2 debilitating shots, one on each ranger)

There are builds designed for each map that are incredibly powerful (iB's build from the first match or iQ's build for the second match vs iB), however it requires incredible teamwork to pull off to best effect.

Nortos
11-09-2006, 09:00
In balanced you learn how to Split where as full spikes (eg woc, blood, r-spike) can only split and get away with kills if there enemys have dped though i suppose in spikes can always send a bloodspiker back to prot the lord and let rest spike. But u learn in balanced how to split where as r-spike u cnt learn how to split. Also in balanced sometimes its not best to go on aden spikes u learn sometimes they target different targets which can end up in a double kill.

DutchSmurf
11-09-2006, 10:24
In balanced you learn how to Split where as full spikes (eg woc, blood, r-spike) can only split and get away with kills if there enemys have dped though i suppose in spikes can always send a bloodspiker back to prot the lord and let rest spike. But u learn in balanced how to split where as r-spike u cnt learn how to split. Also in balanced sometimes its not best to go on aden spikes u learn sometimes they target different targets which can end up in a double kill.

I think playing spike learns you more about splitting then running balanced. Since you can't split yourself, you need much more communication then the balanced team and much more running around. And most balanced teams are nothing more then rainbowspike with a different name. Only reason for the warriors is that you atleast get some option to split when things go wrong.

Wuzzman
13-09-2006, 14:22
If you think spiking is just pressing 2 buttons over and over, you never played a good spiketeam. And what is the difference with some of the current characters, like a thumper? You just hit a skill every time it recharges. Compared to that a spiker is much harder and needs far more skill. Things like positioning, ward placement, LoS, pushing up, falling back, ect, ect. All things you learn in a spiketeam, but not with a thumper. Don't rememeber anyone answering my last question, what do you learn in a "balanced" build that you don't learn in a spikebuild?

spike team requires...from a scale of 10-1 10 being the highest 1 being the lowest I would rate the intelligence of a spike team to a 1. Not saying the player isn't smart. The build itself is a pony with a 1 trick. rank 1k bspike is the same as rank 10 bspike. There is litterally little to no difference between to two. If your in a rank 1k guild that puts in a moderate amount of pratice doing bspike in hero ascent you will have the same amount of effectiveness as a r10 bspike run by one of the top guilds. You don't really put "genius" into a spike team. "1,2,3 SPIKE" sounds the same regardless if I say it or some 5 year old was told to say when someone calls a target. The difference between r1k balance and r10 balance is so large its shouldn't even be a wonder why the top guilds remain the top guilds like EVil for example. Kiting, postioning, timing, splitting, adjusting, predicting, is what you learn from balance. SPike teams only have one strategy "kill and do it instantly" and thus the only thing you learn is how to count.

Almas Darksoul
13-09-2006, 17:24
Spike teams learn positioning, target priority, battle movements, and requires a caller who can stay in time with his own spike. Contrary to popular belief, a blindbot in a spike team and a blindbot in a balanced team are extremely similar in their role, and both require situational awareness. Higher ranked spike teams are also more likely to be experienced with their spike, and have a cleaner spike.

A little example - last night I ran into a Ranger Spike team in GvG. They were rank 700, but still had a 95% perfect spike - it was near impossible to catch even for our skilled monks. We split, and before 10 minutes we had forced the enemy into their base, bodyguardless. We managed to finish them off about 5 minutes later, having a terrain advantage inside the hall. The team was VERY good at saying "3,2,1", and yet by 10 minutes was more or less defeated.
Say we had played Illicit Awakening while they were still a guild that focused on Rspike. They were around rank 7-8 by the end of a season, I believe. Their spike really isn't much better than the rank 700 one (having played against them a few times), and yet I'm fairly sure that they would have beaten us with extreme ease. Not only would they have been more aware as to when to retreat to defend their base, or better at preventing the attack, but they would have also been able to hold at the lord area for a much longer period of time, perhaps even long enough to wear us down.

The reason you don't see pure-spike guilds in the higher ranks is more to do with getting burned out than having "equal skill" to people who play balanced. RUS were a mainly spike guild and still held the top 10-20 for a very long time. Spike is a fundamental aspect of many teams, and requires very similar amounts of skill and experience. People do things when they aren't spiking, too, you know.

Tanamoril
13-09-2006, 23:08
My perfect team is 2 monks (BL or BPROT), a defensive support character (ritual lord, e/mo heal party or something), 2 offensive support characters (edenial, choking gas, trapper, that kind of stuff), 2 powerhouses (w/e shock warrior, r/w thumper, etc) and a flag runner that can both work on his own, and seaminglessly blend in with his group.

Wuzzman
14-09-2006, 00:15
Spike teams learn positioning, target priority, battle movements, and requires a caller who can stay in time with his own spike. Contrary to popular belief, a blindbot in a spike team and a blindbot in a balanced team are extremely similar in their role, and both require situational awareness. Higher ranked spike teams are also more likely to be experienced with their spike, and have a cleaner spike.

A little example - last night I ran into a Ranger Spike team in GvG. They were rank 700, but still had a 95% perfect spike - it was near impossible to catch even for our skilled monks. We split, and before 10 minutes we had forced the enemy into their base, bodyguardless. We managed to finish them off about 5 minutes later, having a terrain advantage inside the hall. The team was VERY good at saying "3,2,1", and yet by 10 minutes was more or less defeated.

Say we had played Illicit Awakening while they were still a guild that focused on Rspike. They were around rank 7-8 by the end of a season, I believe. Their spike really isn't much better than the rank 700 one (having played against them a few times), and yet I'm fairly sure that they would have beaten us with extreme ease. Not only would they have been more aware as to when to retreat to defend their base, or better at preventing the attack, but they would have also been able to hold at the lord area for a much longer period of time, perhaps even long enough to wear us down.

The reason you don't see pure-spike guilds in the higher ranks is more to do with getting burned out than having "equal skill" to people who play balanced. RUS were a mainly spike guild and still held the top 10-20 for a very long time. Spike is a fundamental aspect of many teams, and requires very similar amounts of skill and experience. People do things when they aren't spiking, too, you know.

o plz plz plz. Your prioty target can be kept in the back the entire game! How many spike team gets folded trying to rush the enemies monks in a classic "1,2,3" A good spike team is designed to kill anything. Thus there should be no prioty targets because you should be able to kill anything. Prioty targets are just possible dead bodies thats all. Spike teams can not afford to spend time blasting at the 1 person who can shut them down. The only postioning for a spike team is not away from its target. Thats it. A spike team that has to fall back is losing. A spike team that has its members kiting are losing. A spike team that is screaming "OMGZ KILL THE ***" is losing. Anything that stops you from doing any sort of damage or makes you pick out a particalur target that has little chance of getting killed out right(the target knows its about to die so he pulls the entire spike team to the backline when he knows the damage is coming, thus giving enough time for an infuse) is a strong sign that your losing. The minute that mesmer becomes a problem your losing.

You can not cover that. "1,2,3" can be said by the most intelligent person in the world but still sounds the same and has the same timing if my 4 year old cousin said it. Spike builds are run by everyone because they are simple, effective builds, that require moderate level of competence to do well in basicly grap yourself a mic and start spiking, too simple and easy to be true now is it? Its effective because of 2 factors, surprise and your enemies stupidty or lack of talent. If your spike isn't a surprise you fail, if your spike faces competent players with a pinch of talent then your not going to get far the longer the match continues. Its effectiveness is because the mechanics are simple. You only have 3 orders to give a group, Go forward; which is what you do and keep doing when you rack up more kills: Stop; When you have to wait for the enemy for some odd reason like waiting at the flag stand so you can dp them out: and Fall back; your losing and will keep losing if you have to do this. Not very demanding on the players battle awareness now is it? The only true lesson in a spike group is following orders. To be able to call in a spike group is unique and takes exceptional skill. Not only is it your job to call spikes but to issue the calls for your 3 main movement orders. But other then that their is no real genius you can put in a spike build. Its designed simple and has simple mechanics and making it bend to a overly complex situation that requires you to make due with what you have will just leave you a dead genius. Balance is complex by nature, every player preforming a different task to secure a victory against all resist given by the opostion. You make due with what you have...you can tell which balance team has that philosphy and who doesn't by their choices in offensive and defenses. A spike team is ever player preforming moderatly the same task to secure a victory despite the opostion. Given the difference between the two definations and how this game is made I can't honsestly say that working against resistence doesn't require more genius then working as if there is no resistence.

defrule
14-09-2006, 02:47
Why should spiking be seen as simple and can be done effectively with ease? What difference is there in a balanced build with warriors applying pressure to a rainbow spike team just attacking at will?

If I went into a GvG with a ranger spike team but I just told everyone to fire at will, would you call us a spike team? Now let us concentrate our damage on one person then that is classified as a spike? So really spiking is more of a play style than a build? The build is merely designed to efficiently spike, so why should spike builds be looked at differently?

DutchSmurf
14-09-2006, 11:00
......

Guess you never saw any good spike guilds (like Rus) playing then.

Tucks
14-09-2006, 13:32
A good spike team is designed to kill anything. Thus there should be no prioty targets because you should be able to kill anything. Prioty targets are just possible dead bodies thats all. Spike teams can not afford to spend time blasting at the 1 person who can shut them down. The only postioning for a spike team is not away from its target. Thats it. A spike team that has to fall back is losing. A spike team that has its members kiting are losing. A spike team that is screaming "OMGZ KILL THE ***" is losing. Anything that stops you from doing any sort of damage or makes you pick out a particalur target that has little chance of getting killed out right(the target knows its about to die so he pulls the entire spike team to the backline when he knows the damage is coming, thus giving enough time for an infuse) is a strong sign that your losing. The minute that mesmer becomes a problem your losing.

Wow... You are trying to tell me that you need to choose random targets to win? so.. you are playing rangerspike, there is 1 mesmer shutting down your orders, what do you do? keep spiking randomly or wait for the right time to spike him down, drop a frozen, and proceed to kill people without being shut down for a while?

When calling a spike, you should ALWAYS prioritise. Your monks are under heavy pressure from damage? spike the people dealing it, You/your backline is getting shutdown? You spike the shutdown.


Spike builds are run by everyone because they are simple, effective builds, that require moderate level of competence to do well in basicly grap yourself a mic and start spiking, too simple and easy to be true now is it? Its effective because of 2 factors, surprise and your enemies stupidty or lack of talent. If your spike isn't a surprise you fail, if your spike faces competent players with a pinch of talent then your not going to get far the longer the match continues. Its effectiveness is because the mechanics are simple.

You are partly right about everyone running spike build because they are simple - but not completely. The main reason people run spike builds is because its so easy to cram alot of defence into it. Moderate competance? Yes, that will win you some games, but get a good caller in there with good players, and they will win 10x as many.

As for spikes being a suprise - not really, spike builds are obvious, and can be noticed before you even engage, any decent team will be ready for the spikes, and if they arent, they tend to be incompetant.



To be able to call in a spike group is unique and takes exceptional skill. Not only is it your job to call spikes but to issue the calls for your 3 main movement orders.

Earlier you said that you just call vs random targets, why would that take skill?

Wuzzman
15-09-2006, 02:22
Wow... You are trying to tell me that you need to choose random targets to win? so.. you are playing rangerspike, there is 1 mesmer shutting down your orders, what do you do? keep spiking randomly or wait for the right time to spike him down, drop a frozen, and proceed to kill people without being shut down for a while?

When calling a spike, you should ALWAYS prioritise. Your monks are under heavy pressure from damage? spike the people dealing it, You/your backline is getting shutdown? You spike the shutdown.



You are partly right about everyone running spike build because they are simple - but not completely. The main reason people run spike builds is because its so easy to cram alot of defence into it. Moderate competance? Yes, that will win you some games, but get a good caller in there with good players, and they will win 10x as many.

As for spikes being a suprise - not really, spike builds are obvious, and can be noticed before you even engage, any decent team will be ready for the spikes, and if they arent, they tend to be incompetant.




Earlier you said that you just call vs random targets, why would that take skill?

Prioty targets are just possible dead bodies. If you spike the warrior who is coming up your line that is pretty much all you can do. for two reasons, 1 you be an idiot not to and 2 even if you wanted to you can not ignore someone who has little to no chance of falling back...if you did you be an even bigger fool. Possible dead bodies don't have names. If that was the case spike teams would beat balance teams 90% of the time without a problem. A future dead body has no name meaning it doesn't have to do anything but be breathing to get targeted. A spike team CAN say "We must get that mesmer" but an it afford to play whack a mole? The mesmer becomes the ideal target meaning taht you would kick his *** if you could. The keyword to that sentence is if you could. Lets say you meet a competent mesmer who can counter the **** out of you and lets say he had good monks who can heal a spike given some talent due to their experience and the mesmers experience. What would that mesmer do if he knows he will be called by the spike teams caller? Do you think he will just wait for you to say "1,2,3 spike" before getting his *** out of your range? Could you afford to keep targeting him the whole matching while he is pulling your rangers into waiting arms of warriors? The funny part is that he knows he is a target anyhow so there is no waiting. He can easily lay the smack down on one of your spikers thus putting your spike off then get back to the safety of his backline, I've done it a million times, I've seen players from other guilds with players I have to admit are better then me do it to the highest ranked guilds who run spike builds. SPike builds can't afford to waste its time playing those mini games with the people who are going to screw them over. The only thing they can possible care about is how far is he from his monk.

Spike builds aren't made with the thought "what if I'm getting ***", spike teams do what they do despite resistence. There is no genius or creativity or anything other then what it takes to run the build. No talent really needed just timing and kindergarden students can do it. Not saying spike builds are wrong, or they are some patheticly weak entity because I been in several and fought several. To a spike team the person shutting them down doesn't exist and when you have to acknowledge that they do exist you are in trouble, your spike just became very perdictable and your delaying your offensive for a person who knows he is dead meat if he acts like he isn't going to get targeted. Once you start working against resistence like a balance team does your bascily losing since your fighting a match another build is more designed to win.

DutchSmurf
15-09-2006, 11:29
........

Yep, you never played in or against a good spike team.

Wuzzman
16-09-2006, 00:15
Yep, you never played in or against a good spike team.

actually I have. And if I didn't how would you know? Do I have to create pics for all my matches so I can prove something to a bunch of guys who have a whole lot of free time on their hands? The real question is have you been in a good spike team and if so you have can you prove it?

David Holtzman
16-09-2006, 00:37
There is no genius or creativity or anything other then what it takes to run the build. No talent really needed just timing and kindergarden students can do it.

We got to rank 6 with ranger spike. Maybe we have no talent and were a bunch of kindergarden students, but I bet we rolled you.


To a spike team the person shutting them down doesn't exist and when you have to acknowledge that they do exist you are in trouble, your spike just became very perdictable and your delaying your offensive for a person who knows he is dead meat if he acts like he isn't going to get targeted. Once you start working against resistence like a balance team does your bascily losing since your fighting a match another build is more designed to win.

What are you talking about? You clearly have no conception of how a good spike team works. You absolutely have to stop whatever is trying to counter you. I would have thought this to be so obvious it went without mentioning. The person shutting you down doesn't exist? That statement is laughably contradictory as to be absurd. Pray tell, if he doesn't exist, how precisely is he shutting you down? Didn't you ever wonder why spike teams ran prep characters?

adrenalinq
28-09-2006, 12:20
I like GW because EVERY build can be countered to Flawless victory.
Example - what your ranger spike will do against 6 Me with Empaphy, Price of falure and ect? Cry of Frustration can interrupt preparations af ALL your rangers!

Parker Bsb
28-09-2006, 14:08
I've never seen a team with 6 me's except in a fc air spike... empathy/PoF/Cry on that many members tells me you won't win many matches - and thus the ranger teams have no worry.

David Holtzman
28-09-2006, 19:17
Example - what your ranger spike will do against 6 Me with Empaphy, Price of falure and ect? Cry of Frustration can interrupt preparations af ALL your rangers!

We'd kill them. 6 mesmers would never ever kill us, and spikes would eventually get through. With 30 minutes back then till VoD it would be a long but easy match.

Aire
29-09-2006, 18:04
With that weak an offense, your Rspike can wander round your base and kill NPCs....

Dragonfire Archer
02-10-2006, 04:49
im pretty certain when nightfall arrives there will be no packhunter template..but thats for another thread, best not stray off topic :grin:

I'd say when Nightfall comes out the main GvG build will be a Derv spike(basically a full team of Dervs focusing on running up to enemies and using spells such as "Heart of Holy Flame" and stacking enchants on themselves)

Dragonfire Archer
02-10-2006, 04:52
Another one I've seen that usually wins is a Flareway:

-5 Me/E that use:

Elemental Attunement, Fire Attunement, Flare, Rodgert's Incantation, Fireball, Ether Feast, Drain Enchant(some of the mesmers ditch Ether Feast and Drain to get another fire attack and res.)

-and the usual 3 monk backup(bonder, prot and 1 other)

David Holtzman
02-10-2006, 06:01
I'd say when Nightfall comes out the main GvG build will be a Derv spike(basically a full team of Dervs focusing on running up to enemies and using spells such as "Heart of Holy Flame" and stacking enchants on themselves)

Not a chance. That build's been hit by a dozen nerfs to the point that the class as a whole is almost unviable for PvP.

deya
02-10-2006, 06:20
Offence is ze best defense.
~Any~ build will work as long as you know how to play it.

sahlakh
02-10-2006, 09:22
The build you play sets the potential for your team. The rest is up to you -- how you succeed depends on how well you use the potential.

David Holtzman
02-10-2006, 10:26
Offence is ze best defense.
~Any~ build will work as long as you know how to play it.

8 mes/eles with glimmering mark and ice spear. I guarantee you you won't win. Empeh is right, the build sets the potential. "~Any~" build just won't cut it.

Aiiane
02-10-2006, 12:57
8 mes/eles with glimmering mark and ice spear. I guarantee you you won't win. Empeh is right, the build sets the potential. "~Any~" build just won't cut it.

But then again, a wide range of them will. Of course, a wide range of them won't. Luckly, Guild Wars has so many potential builds there are plenty that fit into either category.

deya
02-10-2006, 13:23
8 mes/eles with glimmering mark and ice spear. I guarantee you you won't win. Empeh is right, the build sets the potential. "~Any~" build just won't cut it.

People got brains for a reason.

Aire
02-10-2006, 18:10
Fastcast Ice Spear is a crapload of pressure. And glimmering Mark wtfpwnz warriors and rangers, so you shouldn't have too much problem.

I could get it to work....

Fafner
02-10-2006, 23:26
Here's a split build you might enjoy. 4 warriors, 4 monks. I think we ran 2 axe, 1 sword, 1 hammer.

We held the team at the stand with the 4 of us (3 monks, 1 warrior) while the gank squad went in to cause mischief.

We ran it twice awhile back, one win, one loss against ~250ish guilds.

*disclaimer* I said "might enjoy", we didn't put it together to win matches, just as one of many builds to force our newbs into learning how to split.

The Avatar
18-10-2006, 20:51
Since it's a team game there is no way to make a perfect build. Individually, the build should focus on a specific role, either going extremely offensive or extremely defensive. u dont have to balance ur build cuz ur teammates make up the part what ur vulnerable to, that's what thy're for. If u play a mesmer, u should focus on locking down enemies by going either anti-warrior or anti-caster. If ur a warrior, u can go either with pressuring or acting as an meat-shield.