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View Full Version : How 2 cope with the new meta.



Parker Bsb
15-08-2006, 19:57
I've noticed a shift away from balanced to a pure offence build, typically
2 warriors, 1 thumper, 2 condition rangers, 1 runner and 2 monks.

Faced with that amount of pressure most balanced builds will crack fast...

I would guess a hex heavy team could do well in this meta, altho we've tried a 6/2 split to decent success (the 6 are defensive with a spike to hold the stand and the 2 are for ganking npc's) the problem with that sort if build: waiting for VoD for the win, means we can't get in as many guild battles which means our rank will be low with the short duration of the ladders these days... also the holding team doesn't have all that much fun.

What build have you tried and how successful was it in this new meta?

Ace Bear
15-08-2006, 20:46
We have tried the dual Ele build. Fits nicely in our hex heavy build(just took out a Necro for the Ele). 1 Ele can blind both of the wars or the thumper(not a whole lot of condition removal on the front) and the other Ele can heal party the degen. Still though..Has a huge spiking potential, interupts on 5 characters, and conditions from those same 5(including deep wound from 3 of them).

Dual eles has worked for us but not always, I was thinking of making them Water/Earth for Wards which should slow down alot of that damage. Either Ele can still run.

So:
War-Axe
War-Hammer
Ele-Water/earth with Aegis
Ele-Water/earth with Aegis and draw
Monk
Monk
Mesmer-Expel Hexes(won't help vs this team but is always helpeful) with Aegis
Necro- Curse

Aiiane
15-08-2006, 21:40
The ladder system rewards those who can win a majority of fights quickly, rather than all of their fights in a varying amount of time, hence the shift towards offensive builds.

David Holtzman
15-08-2006, 21:47
This metagame is really going two places. On one hand everyone who can is going pure offensive physical and condition pressure. These sort of teams survive merely by killing everything in their path (and they are ridiculously effective at it. A little too much so in my opinion). On the other hand you have insane defense builds made to win at VoD. They take forever to kill anyone on both sides of the game, but that sort of defense works against heavy pressure teams like thumpers or the KGYU build. The way it's working now you really have to go one way or the other if you expect to win. A midline build between the two points doesn't seem to be effective against either. It won't kill against the defensive builds and won't survive against the offensive ones.

bellissima
15-08-2006, 22:17
There seems to have been a revival of ranger spike too... We've run into a couple top 100 rspikes in recent weeks and we don't even GvG that often.

ZiegDivine
16-08-2006, 00:01
There's a revival of ranger spike because of the introduction of seeking arrows. Most rspike builds now include both seeking and RtW. That means no more aegis, and no more shields up in most cases. People just have to rely on their rit spammers and union.

There's also an increase in 4 thumpers, 1 blindbot, 1 taint, 2 monks build. In the 4 gvgs I was in today, 2 were that build. It's really annoying -_-

Apok Omni
16-08-2006, 00:13
Yep, everytime someone notices a skill they haven't used because they thought it sucked and then see how it works, it shifts the meta.

Before a while, people didn't usually have CG Rangers or any Rangers in balanced in HA. THEN they noticed that CG goes through walls and NOW every balanced group wants one.

Now, about the phys. only pressure. any necro can simply hex them to prevent the pressure. But, usually the rangers carry dual i-hexes, so it will take time. They carry these conditions with them: Blind, Weakness, Deep Wound, Bleeding, Poison, Crippling. So, it will be hard with all these conditions, but a simple Emo Flag Runner could Extinguish them. Also, since its all phys. damage, you could blind them. Yes, they will have condition removal, but it would still help.

HappyPants
16-08-2006, 00:38
I think people can bring back some smiters, not that they have been gone that long. A smiter is the in-between, in my opinion, that people might be looking for. It can provide both a decent offence and defence. It has worked very well with my guild allowing us to stand up to the pressure of KGYU (with hp/extinguish emo) and allowed us to provide the pressure to roll over a bunch of guilds ranked between 50-200.

neoflame
16-08-2006, 04:10
Before a while, people didn't usually have CG Rangers or any Rangers in balanced in HA. THEN they noticed that CG goes through walls
Nope. Actually, Factions - and Seeking Arrows - was released, and since SA works best with Prac Stance... and Prac Stance works best with CG...

David Holtzman
16-08-2006, 06:58
There seems to have been a revival of ranger spike too... We've run into a couple top 100 rspikes in recent weeks and we don't even GvG that often.

In my opinion as an Rspiker, Rspike is mostly outdated due to teleportation and offensive metagame builds. The way Rspike survives is by killing very quickly anything that comes at it. Where it falls is when it's put under heavy pressure. Rspike has almost no pressure utility with 4 rangers in the frontlines, so the backlines just collapse and die. The other problem Rspike has is there is no effective way for it to really deal with a good team who can afford to drop an assassin into the base. In general the idea is that most teams can simply overpower the team at the flagstand since they are down 2 players. In rspike however, the number of the enemy is mostly irrelevent once there are 2 monks standing there. It would definitely be a good tournament build because you can force what map you need to play it, but for ladder climbing I'm not really convinced it is still effective.

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There's also an increase in 4 thumpers, 1 blindbot, 1 taint, 2 monks build. In the 4 gvgs I was in today, 2 were that build. It's really annoying -_-

All I can say is, you're lucky it was a blindbot and not a water ele. Add snares to that build and it is basically game. That's how WIMP pushed up so high.

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Before a while, people didn't usually have CG Rangers or any Rangers in balanced in HA. THEN they noticed that CG goes through walls and NOW every balanced group wants one.

Er... no. What happened was the recharge on Practiced Stance was reduced and the skill Seeking Arrows was introduced. Seeking is awfully nice on altar maps, so lots of people started taking it. And once you have practiced stance already, why not take gas along? It's some extra damage and some nice AoE interrupt for all those Necrospikes floating around.

ZiegDivine
16-08-2006, 16:58
All I can say is, you're lucky it was a blindbot and not a water ele. Add snares to that build and it is basically game. That's how WIMP pushed up so high.

Yep, EnS had deep freeze with them last night ... it was basically game :wink:

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SA is used in CG rangers, because of the altar maps. SA + sav = constant interrupt on the ghostly.

Wuzzman
22-08-2006, 04:19
maybe effective uses of necro's in what they do best... hexing would stop the tide of pure offensive builds. God the only reason those builds work is because the metagame was sooo sure that a blind bot and some wards is all you need to ignore the warrior prementaly. Then something funny happened the starburst ele..hilarouse. The revival of rspike is also hilarous, some people thought taht their two spam away ele's where the only "real" defense they need that they huddled in their wards getting picked off one by one truely funny.

Patccmoi
23-08-2006, 17:49
What do you think of a build like this to counter the mass Thumper/Warrior builds?

E/N

14 Water (11 + 3)
12 EStorage (10 + 2)
10 Curses

Shard Storm
Ice Spikes
Deep Freeze / Frozen Burst
Blurred Vision
Shadow of Fear
Enfeebling Blood
Ether Prodigy
Rez Signet

It can easily support your offense by snaring enemies, but you can also drastically reduce the other team attacker's efficiency by using Blurred-SoF-Enfeebling over and over. You can also snare them, which is a great pressure reliever. If you don't want to burden your monk for health sac, you could possibly replace one of the 3 snares with Aura of Restoration, it's great to handle saccing (used it before on an E/N that used Dark Fury every 5 sec and didn't need any monk support).

Since all of these or nearly are AOE effects, they can work very great for multiple attackers, and affect Thumper's pet as much as the ranger, something a Blindbot spammer can't do. In a team like that that is low on hex removal, it's pretty much overloading their ability to handle hexes. Honestly most teams that don't use Expel Hexes would be overloaded pretty fast with this and couldn't remove them all. SoF with 5 sec recharge and often affecting more than 1 target is a lot already and you add all the water snares + blurred on top, not counting Enfeebling Blood that is pretty big AOE and requires lots of condition removal too.

Don't go on how you're sacrificing Heal Party or Draw Condition, etc. You could just have an E/Mo running flag with HP/Extinguish, a Me/Mo with Draw along in fight, etc. I'm not saying this build should replace an E/Mo just because it's an ele. It's a support for your offense (heavy snares) with support to your defense (heavy anti-attackers) and it's just a combat utility char that can be fit in a build that goes with it, and could possibly tweak 1-2 skills depending on what your team needs.

So what do you think? Does this have its place in the current metagame?

Almas Darksoul
23-08-2006, 18:34
I think a definite priority now is using multiple anti warrior/ranger characters, or have a large range of skills spread out in your group to deal with them. Builds such as thumperway and melandru/apply ranger combos are extremely common atm, and one blind-bot really isn't enough.

I think Hex Builds have some chance of success, since they are capable of carrying a LOT of attack hate in the form of curse hexes and water hexes. However, these tend to be weak to splits or assassins, which must be accounted for to be successful with the current setups going around.

Patccmoi
23-08-2006, 19:25
I think a definite priority now is using multiple anti warrior/ranger characters, or have a large range of skills spread out in your group to deal with them. Builds such as thumperway and melandru/apply ranger combos are extremely common atm, and one blind-bot really isn't enough.

I think Hex Builds have some chance of success, since they are capable of carrying a LOT of attack hate in the form of curse hexes and water hexes. However, these tend to be weak to splits or assassins, which must be accounted for to be successful with the current setups going around.

I think that something like i wrote above (Hydro/Curses E/N) with an E/Mo flag runner (Blinding Flash, HP, Extinguish) can possibly handle this pretty well. Blinding Flash E/Mos are usually quite good against Assassin gankers. You need someone else to finish them, but you can at least make them close to useless.

Dogbert
23-08-2006, 23:54
I think that something like i wrote above (Hydro/Curses E/N) with an E/Mo flag runner (Blinding Flash, HP, Extinguish) can possibly handle this pretty well. Blinding Flash E/Mos are usually quite good against Assassin gankers. You need someone else to finish them, but you can at least make them close to useless.

I like your e/n build patccmoi. It looks interesting to say the least. I'm gonna see if we can fit it in the build next gvg.

I mean shadow of fear lasts for 20 seconds at 0 curses. It's one of the best aoe hexes in the game. Recharges in 5 seconds also. Good luck keeping up any hex removal vs that.

Wuzzman
23-08-2006, 23:58
wow...I don't think its the lack of blinding flash eles that thumpers are pwning....