What is Ascension?

[Unknown Hatred]

Yes, the process that allows us to enter FoW and UW, but what truly is Ascension, a way of being reconized by the gods..or an actual change in mind body and soul so that we are more in tune with the spirits theirselves.

There are two theoritcal forms of Ascension, The Crystal Desert, and Weh No Su (Closer To The Stars), many people think that these forms of higher status are the same, but if that is so..why do Ascended people have to become Weh No Su to see Shiro, if our Ascension allows us to become one with the realms of Grenth and Balthazar, why can we not see a mere Envoy when we can access the gods theirselves. (Although, this is going to frazzle your brain, people who have achieved Weh No Su can use the UW and FoW, yet Ascended people cannot see Shiro)

Rumours:

1) Ascension lets you fight the Mursaat
False, players infused but not Ascended can fight the Mursaat

[Elvin Drude]

from a writers point of view, it would involve changing the whole story line in order to get the Tyrian charaters to start after Napui Quater, or for there to be qa very ling movie telling us all what had happened.

but from a game point of view....mabey they are slightly different types of ascension. like one might bring you closer to the gods in mind, one in spirit. sounds a bit weird but....

[teh Monkeys]

Ascension is about getting seen by the gods and getting acces into the various realms of the gods and such.

Weh-No-Suh is about being able to see into the spirit realm.

Or something.

[Unknown Hatred]

Ascension is about getting seen by the gods and getting acces into the various realms of the gods and such.

Weh-No-Suh is about being able to see into the spirit realm.

Or something.

how come Weh No Su can access the gods realms then.

[teh Monkeys]

Programming issues.

[Guts Deathrage]

You get access to Cantha via Lions Arch...well before Ascension in Tyria.

[Unknown Hatred]

You get access to Cantha via Lions Arch...well before Ascension in Tyria.

and you get access to Tyria via Kaineng Center..well before Weh No Su in Cantha :rolleyes:

[Continumanomaly]

Guts is saying that according to the timeline the PCs haven't actually gotten Ascended yet. But i don't know what u are trying to say.

[Unknown Hatred]

Guts is saying that according to the timeline the PCs haven't actually gotten Ascended yet. But i don't know what u are trying to say.


irregardles, this is the LORE forum not the PROGRAMMING ISSUES forum, discussing the lore of ascension, now. contribute, or leave.

[teh Monkeys]

Try not to get your panties in a bunch, I didn't read the your post very well, since I was tired.

We have no idea what the hell it is that ascension does. All we know is that, according to the prophecies (more or less), the chosen are to complete ascension in the desert, and help the flameseeker.
The chosen are rumored to be King Doric's descendants; blood relatives. King Doric was the man who went to the gods, and asked them to save his people. The gods then created the bloodstones and sealed them with Doric's blood.
What ascension essentially is, is a re-enactment of what Doric did; his bloodline seeks an audience with the gods, in order to save Tyria. After being ascended, they are able to break the seal on the bloodstones.

Being Weh-No-Suh lets you into the realms of the gods because these are probably classified as spirit worlds, or somesuch.

[Quintus Antonius]

They are probably the same thing with different names and cultural twists. Being able to "see into the spirit" realm sounds an awful lot like "claiming the gift of True Sight".

[Ferdoc]

well what about this though. the ascention isn't just merely 'activating' the bloodline and breaking the seal. but rather using the unseen heritage within you and challenging the will of the gods. you challenge it by preforming the 3 rituals, and from that you are able to see the 'taint' in your body when you go to augury rock and go and face your double. after rising above what holds you back, you are smiled upon by the gods as Doric was and given a blessing of sorts. the gods recognise the power you have obtained by preforming rites and rituals as well as ridding your body of taint.

as for closer to the stars, they are not preforming any sacred rite per say. they are showing the envoy's the power the posses. as the cut scenes don't really mention anythign mysticall about them, rather they talk about the power and prowess that the charater(s). from this i assume that going against the celestials, and killing the tainted versions is to impart upon themselves a portion of their power. and only by killing all 4 will they gain the ability to see the 'stars'.

A further difference as it was mentioned above is that the 'closer to the stars' people can see it. as i belive what they do is just pierce the veil of the spirit relm, not penetrate it. as with ascention you are casting off what makes you suscepable (sp?) to the veil itself. and by doing so it no longer affects you.

now as to why both can enter UW and FoW, i think that the gods bless those that have succeed in even moving one step above thier normal pitiful selves. (hey they're gods after all). and the only gods that deem those who have done so worth to enter their relms are Gern. and Balth. well.. for now atleast.

[EternalSoul]

See I've been quite confused on one thing, how the Gods recognize you or bless you in any way, considering they have left. I know they left humans with magic and whatnot but how can they recognize us if they aren't here? Sorry off-topic, I tried to find a thread about it too but I couldn't...

This question would also make Ascension even weirder.

[Ferdoc]

you force their attention tho. think about in dunes. "the gods gaze at he who controls this circle" or something like that. even though the gods have left the method to get their attention is still in place. atleast this is what i think

[ShadowReapr]

I wouldn't say that they are the same thing at all, rather two paths to the same ending (in the same way the path of the deceased is different in both continents).

Personally I believe that Ascension isn't necessarily gaining the audience of the Gods, but merely gaining the powers of the dead, while remaining alive. What do I mean? Let me clarify:

Normally, the Hall of Heroes are reserved for the mightiest, but certainly dead warriors. The Underworld is for dead folk. However, once Ascension has been attained, they are open to the alive folk (perhaps, and this is a tangent, after Lord Odran's little expeditions the Gods saw how it may be advantageous to allow certain mortals in their realmd).

On the other hand, being Closer to the Stars also gives us the powers of the dead. The dead will have to be able to see the spirit realm, for that is their destination (and then, later, the Underworld (and/or FoW). See where I'm going with this?), and they must also be able to see the Envoys and the dead, for communication might be hard otherwise (to wit, perhaps that kid from the Sixth Sense was ascended :D).

A bit iffy, I know, but I think if we see the same sort of ascendance in Elona, it may just prove this theory. After all, the whole raising-of-the-army-against-Dhuum will likely involve our travelling into where no mere mortals can go.


Or, for a totally different, not-quite-serious idea, perhaps being Ascended is simply a title. After all, we surely couldn't have completed such hardships without having the favour of the Gods on our side.

[Quintus Antonius]

I liked how you put all that ShadowReapr. Makes sense to me. I'm not sure if it's right or not, but it makes sense.

[Unknown Hatred]

I wouldn't say that they are the same thing at all, rather two paths to the same ending (in the same way the path of the deceased is different in both continents).

Personally I believe that Ascension isn't necessarily gaining the audience of the Gods, but merely gaining the powers of the dead, while remaining alive. What do I mean? Let me clarify:

Normally, the Hall of Heroes are reserved for the mightiest, but certainly dead warriors. The Underworld is for dead folk. However, once Ascension has been attained, they are open to the alive folk (perhaps, and this is a tangent, after Lord Odran's little expeditions the Gods saw how it may be advantageous to allow certain mortals in their realmd).

On the other hand, being Closer to the Stars also gives us the powers of the dead. The dead will have to be able to see the spirit realm, for that is their destination (and then, later, the Underworld (and/or FoW). See where I'm going with this?), and they must also be able to see the Envoys and the dead, for communication might be hard otherwise (to wit, perhaps that kid from the Sixth Sense was ascended :D).

A bit iffy, I know, but I think if we see the same sort of ascendance in Elona, it may just prove this theory. After all, the whole raising-of-the-army-against-Dhuum will likely involve our travelling into where no mere mortals can go.


Or, for a totally different, not-quite-serious idea, perhaps being Ascended is simply a title. After all, we surely couldn't have completed such hardships without having the favour of the Gods on our side.

so in a way Weh No Su is a superior form of Ascension compared to the Tyrian Ascension as it boasts all the qualities of tyrian acendance plus to ability to see envoys shiro etc.

[Ferdoc]

is it tho? because i'm still hung up on the fact that you have to kill 4 creatures to gain ascention, while in Tyria you need to complete a ritual and then kill a double to become ascended.

i just think there is a large amount of symbolism in the use of the double having all of your skills but being 'stronger' perhaps its a metaphor for the characters imperfections when compared to Doric? or symoblistic of the ultimate challenge anyone could ever faces. the need to counquer yourself. wiether it is your selfdoubt, self effacement or what have you.

i think they are different legs of the same table. 2 things in different places but apart of the same scheme.

[Acerbus Aether]

In the process of Ascension you face your Doppleganger which is in turn, your 'personal demon' of a such. He has the exactly same abilities that you have, the same mindset, but his mind is wracked with abominations that the mortal realm should not endure, the Doppleganger's mind is intensely warped and it carries over in his physical state, his head ethereal, his body blackened. Now how's that for some nifty writing-shmiting? Defeating a warped representation of yourself grants you a higher level of awareness, akin to an epiphany, those who conquer their inner fears and tribulations in their physical form are recognized by the gods themselves.

As for Weh No Su:
The Dragon, a reminder of atrocity, pain, and anguish.
The Phoenix, the representation of fiery eternity in the Underworld.
The Turtle Dragon, the eternal paradox
The Kirin, the embodiment of corruption.

All but the Turtle Dragon imply an embodiment or reminder of an inner trouble, to defeat the Celestial representation of pain, fiery doom, corruption, and misinterpretation/mistake means conquering the representation of inner failures. The spirits of Cantha have placed this test to see who is worthy of seeing past the mortal world.

[Quintus Antonius]

I think it's also important to remember that in Cantha, there are different forces at work in addition to those in Tyria. Because of traditional Ritualist ancestor worship and spirit communing, Canthans have a closer relationship to the "spirit world", and these spirits may in turn, help to guide the Canthans, thus Weh No su takes on a different role than Ascension in Tyria, although the ending point is essentially the same.