[Elonian Lore] Important C3 Plotline Info [Archive]

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Santax

18-08-2006, 08:52

Ban

18-08-2006, 09:01

Hmm.. well.. i dont see any other link with Titans and Shiro then Mhenlo going back. But that might be because i still havent finished the last 2 missions.

Art

18-08-2006, 09:02

Dhumm, Dhumm, DHUMM

-Art

Serendipity

18-08-2006, 14:24

The most likely explanation is that we will meet the "puppet master" who gave the scroll to the Vizier and drove Shiro insane.

And who probably unleashed the Charr on Tyria.

Since Elona is on the same landmass than Ascalon and Orr what is the probability of Charrs in Elona ?

I would buy Nightfall only for fighting Charrs again. :)

Quintus Antonius

18-08-2006, 14:26

WEll, I'd like to point out that the magazine really hasn't confirmed or denied any new information, just confirmed some things we already knew.

Laibeus Lord

19-08-2006, 07:05

It isn't surprising considering that these three continents seem to have shared interaction and history together.

I still don't have a screenshot, but if my memory serves me right, the leader of the Shining Blade seems to be of Elonian bloodline - her dress is different from the Tyrians and is more similar to an Elonian Paragon.

Quintus Antonius

19-08-2006, 07:17

Where do people get the idea that Evennia is Elonian? I don't remember that being said anywhere, and so far, all I'm seeing is speculation based on her skin and dress, which can both be rationally explained away within the content of Prophecies.

Now, that said, if there is an in-game conversation or something that says she is Elonian, then I will understand.

Santax

19-08-2006, 07:26

Although Evennia seems to have the armour of a Paragon, she is a Monk, and I have reason to believe that she was implemented before work even started on Nightfall.

Laibeus Lord

19-08-2006, 07:48

Just a theory :p Even if work hasn't started for C3 before Evennia was created, it is possible that the C1-C3 arc was already conceptualized including the NPC characters. One will notice that the only Campaign so far that they've announced "work has started" is C4, unless I missed some news in the past, they have not announced that the work for "C2 or C3" has started.

Again just a theory. It could very well be that it was just a coincidence.

Evennia could be or couldn't be. We don't have anything that says she isn't related or of Elonian origin, and we don't have anything that says she is. It's just a theory... don't get harsh with a theory ;)

Santax

19-08-2006, 15:00

Quintus Antonius

19-08-2006, 16:00

It's a hypothesis, not a theory. Confusing the two can be dangerous. A theory is backed up by a lot of evidence, both in-game, and logical speculation; a hypothesis is just a guess.

I'd give Evennia a 1 in 5 chance of being Elonian, and a 4 in 5 chance of being nothing special.

Trojan

19-08-2006, 20:17

This makes alot more sense now. I have a feeling Nightfall is going to tie up everything neatly.

choco

19-08-2006, 20:36

dgwnitro

21-08-2006, 03:55

Gordon Michael

21-08-2006, 03:58

Well I don't see any conection with Shiro nor with titans in chapter 3. Shiro got confused (enough said for those who followed the story) and due to the following of events he did what he did. I have no possible idea how an ancient raged god could have sent Charr to Ascalon for no reason as well.
The Charr also invaded Kryta, giving the White Mantle and the Mursaat an opportunity to save Kryta and take over, after they captured the Shining Blade leadership, they started marching on the Shiverpeaks, and they probably intended to continue on to Ascalon, and then send fleets to invade Cantha and Elona. Dhuum and Menzies both have grudges against at least one member of the main pantheon, and probably want more worshippers. As for the Lich, Dhuum used to be the god of death, anything involving killing people and / or raising undead hordes fits his portfolio. The Charr, Khilbron and Shiro all caused large-scale magical devastation that they have not been observed to repeat, which suggests that they may have been assisted. There may have been significant double-crossing involved. I think Dhuum and / or Menzies (who may be the same god) is softening everyone up for a full-scale invasion. I don't think Dhuum and / or Menzies is some puppetmaster behind the Charr, Mursaat, Khilbron, the Titans and Shiro, I think he just gave them nukes, manipulated then into using them and then moving on once the damage was done, with only the hordes of chaos actually working directly for Dhuum / Menzies (although the Terrorweb Dryders might be mercenaries or allies of convenience).

Gordon Michael

21-08-2006, 04:21

The Charr are beasts, more easily confused then human beings, no? Ok, the Charr might be smart enough to master basic magic, but hey, who doesn't in the GW Universe? If there really was a puppetmaster (Dhumm :wink: ) then he would've easily brought the charr to mind that they should attack the humans.

Now that all aside, there still is little known about the charr and their leaders, maybe Nightfall can tie this up?

-this all is hypothetically and i can not prove much of it thus it is not a theory- :shocked:
That's an interesting point, at first I assumed that the Charr developed the searing spell on their own, but the Charr don't seem to build their own siege engines or use captured siege engines, and Charr structurres are either crude stick and hide structures or short, shallow-angled stone ziggurauts with pillars and raised stone plazas that don't require any engineering knowledge.

ShadowSword

21-08-2006, 11:13

In both plotlines there's unexplained problems.

In Prophecies the problem is how the Charr do the Searing and why was the Lich turned that way when the scroll was opened. (Not why the Charr attacked, they've been warring for centuries).

In Factions the problem is why did Shiro turn and what then gave him the power to return 200 years after.

The intervention of Dumm explains this neatly.

the forests wisper

21-08-2006, 16:19

The most likely explanation is that we will meet the "puppet master" who gave the scroll to the Vizier and drove Shiro insane.

ive been saying that!!! there is a pupet master!! duhmm made shiro insane in the undeworld and probably told lich to destryo ore so he can tak over tyria!

i had a whole buch of reasons in the new god thread!

i bought pc format just for the 3 page artical ... still worth the 6 quid price tag

Quintus Antonius

21-08-2006, 16:28

Santax

21-08-2006, 19:52

Here's something to get you thinking:

We know that basically every creature in Tyria worships some kind of deity, with the possible exception of the Mursaat and a few others.

So, who did the Lich and Shiro worship?
The Lich worshipped the titans, until he began to control them at which point he began to think of himself as a god, much like the Mursaat. Shiro worshipped the old gods and the emperor, just like everyone else, but felt he had to kill the emperor or Angsiyan would kill him.

I think everyone is missing the most obvious Dhuum-Khilbron link here...

Scepter of Orr - allows the holder to control the titans and undead (unless you happen to be an Undead Lich, in which case you can contrl them anyway, indeed, that's how the Lich sent undead into Kryta in the first place)

Dhuum - god of death

On a side note, what King Reza, a decent and respectable king, doing with a Scepter that could control the Titans and Undead?

Gmr Leon

21-08-2006, 22:44

The scepter of Orr was probably found by the people who settled around Arah. While they walked the streets they probably discovered this and since they didn't know what it did they just used it as a symbol of power that the king held with him. You know,kind of like the passing down of the crown.

Also,the Lich was once the Vizier so would he not have also worshipped the Old Gods before he was transformed into the Lich?

Quintus Antonius

21-08-2006, 22:47

Yes, but I find it unlikely he continued that worship, and since he sought to control the Titans, it's highly unlikely he worshipped them.

teh Monkeys

21-08-2006, 22:54

On a side note, what King Reza, a decent and respectable king, doing with a Scepter that could control the Titans and Undead?

Lich form controls undead, scepter controls titans.

Dhuum is no longer the god of death, Grenth is.

Quintus Antonius

22-08-2006, 03:08

I think we are looking to one source for a universal answer, when I doubt that's the case. Dhuum's power may have corrupted the Vizier and the Orrian people, but I think the subesquent events may have been on their own, just as Shiro probably acted alone during Factions but may have been influenced prior to that while he was in the Underworld.

JeanDeathwish

22-08-2006, 03:58

All the best stories come in a trilogy and now the saga which began with Guild Wars: Prophecies (the full install of which you'll find in on this month's bonus disk), and continued with Factions, comes to a close in Nightfall. That's not to say that this is the last chapter in Guild Wars, just the culmination of the Titans/Shiro story arc.

Could this mean that Chapter 4 will not be a stand alone expansion but a completely new Guild Wars, with different characters, professions, story, map, etc. and be an actual *gasp* game?! They said they like to compare Guild Wars to Magic: The Gathering and MTG does things in threes.

Of course this would mean that Chapter 4 wont be released ~6 months after Nightfall, as Prophecies took more than a year to make, a similar but new game should compare in time to make.

Or I could be just dreaming. But, if they do adopt a similar game design, the possibilities are endless. Where, on the other hand, if they continue to make stand alone expansions they will be reaching a dead end, as people are wondering about how many professions/skills are too many or how thin can they spread the population. Even they must realize some of the design flaws that people complain about in many threads. This 3 tier chapter system can fix many wrong doings and help renew interest. It may seem far fetched to make a completely new game but I think it will help a lot in the long run.

EDIT: I might as well post something about lore too...

The appearance of Dhuum might put an answer to the question "What happened to the Scepter of Orr?" Apparently the events on Tyria (continent) and the events on Cantha are happening simultaneously but there is no reason why Nightfall cant connect with Tyria at the Crystal Desert and extend (in time) after both the Lich and Shiro have been defeated.

Or...

What if the "outcast God" is not Dhuum but actually.... GLINT, as she was the expected puppeteer of Prophecies. But then again shes not really a god.. or an outcast...

Kjentei

22-08-2006, 04:44

The most likely explanation is that we will meet the "puppet master" who gave the scroll to the Vizier and drove Shiro insane.

And who probably unleashed the Charr on Tyria.

I like that idea, that's just itching for an awesome storyline.

Durza the Shadeking

22-08-2006, 07:41

There is just one little problem with closing everything up with chapter 3;
what about the people who only buy that one?

Just a thought.

False Visage

22-08-2006, 07:49

It won't be Glint as that would make no sense to anyone who:

1. Doesn't own Prophecies
or.
2. Doesn't follow the Lore Forum at GWOnline.net :P

logik

22-08-2006, 08:22

everyone forgot about the Tombs attack by the undead... that happeend right before factions came out, i think that will be explained as well.

Mularc Templare

22-08-2006, 09:49

I agree with the "In threes" or what is acutally reffered to as the Block Mechanic in MTG, however, I doubt it will be a different game completely. If Anet really does follow that meantality (which again, I think would not only be unbuisness-like, but sort of defeats the purpose.) I would assume that we will have access to an off-world map.

I would in fact love a campain in which we find more about the Mursaat/Sear war, even if it is happening across the multiverse...just my personal opinion.

Mularc

Darakus

22-08-2006, 09:55

It could also just be that the story arc spoken about is the one in which Mhenlo, Cynn, Aidan and Devona are the heroes of ANet's lore nothing more.

Karuro

22-08-2006, 12:29

As Anet had decided to make Trilogy's from what Ive read, everything will be tied up in Chapter 3. So most likely, Mhenlo's team will join us.. again. Thus we finally get rid of 'em in chapter 4? =P

Gordon Michael

22-08-2006, 12:47

Could this mean that Chapter 4 will not be a stand alone expansion but a completely new Guild Wars, with different characters, professions, story, map, etc. and be an actual *gasp* game?! They said they like to compare Guild Wars to Magic: The Gathering and MTG does things in threes.

Of course this would mean that Chapter 4 wont be released ~6 months after Nightfall, as Prophecies took more than a year to make, a similar but new game should compare in time to make.

Or I could be just dreaming. But, if they do adopt a similar game design, the possibilities are endless. Where, on the other hand, if they continue to make stand alone expansions they will be reaching a dead end, as people are wondering about how many professions/skills are too many or how thin can they spread the population. Even they must realize some of the design flaws that people complain about in many threads. This 3 tier chapter system can fix many wrong doings and help renew intrest. It may seem farfetched to make a completely new game but I think it will help alot in the long run.
1. Are you suggesting that if Tyrian, Canthan and Elonian characters are completely locked out of the next three campaigns and anyone playing the next three campaigns was forced to start over from scratch, this would somehow magically prevent the player base from becoming more spread out?
2. A lot of people don't consider more skills to be a problem or a design flaw. Some people, such as myself, think there's still significant holes on the skillsets of certain professions.
3. To use an MTG analogy, you can have core 9th edition cards (core, obviously) Kamigawa block cards (first campaign trilogy) and Ravnica block cards (second campaign trilogy) in the same deck.
4. It seems that, on average, it takes about 5 years to come out with an MMORPG sequel, campaign 4 is probably coming out around the second anniversary of Guild Wars, give or take a few months. Assuming they keep up the current release rate and release Guild Wars 2 exactly 5 years after Guild Wars, they'll finish the second campaign trilogy in spring 2008, finish the third campaign trilogy in fall 2009 and release Guild Wars 2 in spring 2010.

Durza the Shadeking

22-08-2006, 20:03

lavenbb

23-08-2006, 04:46

Again, how would everything be tied up for people who only bought Chapter 3? I know this will be a small minority buy how will the Chapter 3 only guy feel, with all these plots being tied up that he doesn't understand.

If factions sets the standard for future campaigns, nightfall will have it's own sub-plot for you to follow, and complete. Each campaign is a part of the puzzle, and only when put together will you understand the main plot.

Factions is also only part of the story, but there is still a beginning and an end, and it definitely can standalone.

Santax

23-08-2006, 09:48

Problem is... ANet said somewhere that they would stop at 8 Campaigns...

It'd be 3-3-2, and so the last 2 campaigns wouldn't have much of a shot at a storyline...

False Visage

23-08-2006, 13:02

Unless, Campaign 4 and 8 are somehow designed to round out the other 6. You end up with something like:

3-1-3-1,

Two main plots explored through three chapters and maybe a finale chapter, or a small self contained plot?

Quintus Antonius

23-08-2006, 20:10

I bet all the campaigns are somehow intertwined, it's just this particular story arc is a triology. Others may not be.

Scutilla

23-08-2006, 20:32

I'm kind of skeptical about how much Nightfall has ties with Prophecies and Factions. Yes, the events with the Grasps at Tombs and the Dragon Festival seem to lead into the NF storyline, but I'm not sure how the story of Dhuum could be fit into the Flameseeker and Shiro storylines. It seems very unlikely that there was any external source involved in Shiro's betrayal (other than what we see in Factions itself- the fortune teller, the Envoys, yadda yadda), and while there's a lot of things we don't know about in the Prophecies story, this "Guess what! Dhuum was actually behind all of it!" seems a tad out of left field to me.

Not to mention that Prophecies and Factions have zilch to do with each other (other than the Mhenlo connection and a shared Grasping Darkness connection to Nightfall), so they can hardly be considered members of a trilogy IMO- unless Chapter 4 is going to somehow be wildly different.

Finally, there's the point that each chapter is meant to be stand alone- a person whose first Guild Wars product is Nightfall wouldn't have the first clue who Shiro or the Lich were or what a Titan or Mursaat is.

I'm going to file this one under "Previewer spouting stuff to build hype, I'll believe it when I see it".

Problem is... ANet said somewhere that they would stop at 8 Campaigns...

It'd be 3-3-2, and so the last 2 campaigns wouldn't have much of a shot at a storyline...
Source? I've never heard anything about that.

shadow the hero

24-08-2006, 07:32

http://www.gamestar.de/imgserver/bdb/1127600/1127627/800x600_DCDF1DB935B6FB3324F8B8B34FFFDDC8 i think you should watch this

Arkhan The Black

24-08-2006, 16:10

So chapter 3 will be an explanation to why it all happened? The searing and the corruption of Shiro?

Sounds good enough for me.

Quintus Antonius

24-08-2006, 17:09

http://www.gamestar.de/imgserver/bdb/1127600/1127627/800x600_DCDF1DB935B6FB3324F8B8B34FFFDDC8 i think you should watch this

I can't seem to find the video in question...

shadow the hero

24-08-2006, 17:18

I can't seem to find the video in question... http://www.gamestar.de/aktuell/screenshots/guild_wars_nightfall/52500/guild_wars_nightfall.html seems like the Link i send, didn't work..... oh Well check the last picture ( i think it was) It's a Proof Dhum attacked the old HoH and it's his Minions inside!

Sir Jack

24-08-2006, 20:29

http://www.teeteehaa.de/~gc2006live/

Pic nr 14, Woman called Morgahn, Dervish, is on the cover of the CE, seems to be an allied NPC. Paragons seem to have pretty high ranks in the army as well, but that was kind of expected with all the "Arch Angels" and Leadership and all :/

Gmr Leon

24-08-2006, 22:14

I think out of those pics from Shadow the Hero's link I found one of what exactly this night mentioned does to the landscape.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a338/GmrLeon00/TheDarkness.jpg

Ranger Nietzsche

25-08-2006, 18:37

noen of those links seem to prove dhumm, tho one of them did give us a map of elona !!

Nemeon Lion

26-08-2006, 19:54

if indeed guild wars will only be 8 chapters, which by the way cant find any source for this, how tha hell will A-Net keep up with the upkeep from the constant gamers playing the old chapters?

WE NEED GAILE HERE!!! Or one of you can ask gaile about this :laugh:

About the plot, puppet-master? Why not?

Chris A

10-09-2006, 23:42

hello im new to GWonline but not to GW and its lore. This whole concept of "who, what and why" really grabbed my attention when i started doing Fow and UW about a year ago. Since then i've been combing forums all over for answers and have found many interesting ideas that all go very neatly together. I will attempt to put everything I've heard from various forums into one neat plotline. I in no way claim the orriginal ideas for myself but mearly just putting the bits and peices together in a logical way. I am in no way god nor do i say my word is law is all pure speculation, all beit very good speculation. Having said that i will say this, This will be long so i apologize in advance, and WILL ALSO CONTAIN SPOILERS. also if the moderator feels this better fits somewhere ealse, plz move it to where it may be more usefull.

Now it all starts about 200 years ago(my timing maybe wrong but bare with me as i state a few guesses here). At this time Dhum and/or Menzies are thrown out of the circle of the gods. Being all po'ed by this the intend to destory wat the gods made. Thus they cause the Titains to ravage the world. This is when the world turns to King Doric. He seeks help from the gods and is giving the sceptor of orr to subdue the titains and lock them behind the door of kamolie.

Around this time Dhum and/or Menzies seeks to use the humans against the other gods in cantha. Dhumn/or Menzies impersonates the fourtune teller and tells Shiro of a vast conspiricy to kill him. As this forth telling start to come to pass Shiro is left with one option, kill the emperor. When is himself is slain his death wail turns the whole....blah blah blah you now this part. But, what you didnt see was Dhum/Menzies comes to Shiro and offers him revenge. They inted for him to use the affliction 200 yrs later to destoy cantha.

2yrs Before present day. Dhumn/Menzies turn back to Tyria. They give the charr the power to to sear ascalon and destory the world. After Alberden and Rurik mustered a defense against the beasts and kryta used the white mantle/Mursaat to destory the charr there, Dhumn/Menzies decieded to use the Vizor in Orr. When the Vizor seeks their counsel, they give him the power to kill the charr, and all of Orr, and settle a grudge with the old gods by destorying their prized city. Then Dhumn/Menzies ressurects the Vizor and gives him a similar offer they gave Shiro, and the Lich is born.

Present day, we'll hope back to cantha. Shiro uses the power he was given and trained with and raises an army of afflicted. However a double cross is made. Shiro Finds a way to become human. When Dhumn/Menzies realize this they send the 'envoys' to res you at viznuah sqaure. You then end up doing Dhumn's/Menzies's dirty work by defeating Shiro.

Well that was a short plot but thats a different debate.Now to Tyria

About half way through the story line in proph.(after the searing now) The White mantle find the sceptor of orr they only thing that can control the titans(why is under vast speculation wether the Murssaat wanted more control over the titans in case the door failed or if the mantle found out that the Lich was Looking for it, which he was). So the Lich now knows the local of the sceptor, but he cant get to it. He uses the army Dhumn/Menzies provided him with and forces the sceptor out of human control. In the Sanctum Kay mission you give him said sceptor, he is then very happy now. Now he uses the flameseeker prophcies against you to find the only way to the fire island and the door. The rest is history, hes gets control of titains and attempts to destory humanity, But you stop him and the titains.

Also to clear up any Mursaat/ Searer relations. Way back when King dorick asked the gods for help, the Mursaat(maybe from elona judging by the wings?)ally with the humans and seeks to destroy the Titains(yes i just said the Mursaat were once the good guys).The Searers i deem by their appareance are closly related to Menzies shadow army(ps they too maybe from elona due to the wings).Just so you know I'm getting the wing=elona idea from the GW Preveiw video where a monster had very white wings. Now the Searers give you a way to protect yourself against the mursaat. Why? Cause the Lich needed you to kill them and find the way to the fire island and the Searers had that means to help you. That clears up the reason why the mursaat knew of the Door and tried to keep it close.

Now the conclusion of the matter. Dhumn/Menzies are battling the 5 Main gods. Both sides used Humans to thier advantage. The Mursaat helped Humans even though they hated the old gods because of the titain threat. the Searers were Like the High Preists of Menzies Shadow army. The titains were too apart of this army. This leaves humans in the middle. I frankly wont coment on what the hell Glint had with anything, she can go either way IMO. Therefore, in NF there will be an all out war as Dhumn/Menzies get really tired of losing all the time and just go all out war in Elona(since mostly the gods will have thier gaze in the dessert, tyria, and cantha) in a surprise move. I expect the Mursaat and possibly the Searers in NF along with Shiro(the ghostly hero anyone?) possibly trying to make things right. Also i expect the 'envoys' here too, we may find out that thier the generals of Menzies and that they act as the four hoursemen of the apocalypse(much like Dhumn Hoursmen in UW).

Anywho just my take/guessing/putting the bits and peices together. This may all very well be just my rambling on, but hey this is my take on it. Now take it as you will.

ps. ill lmao if i get on tonight and find out my accounts been banned for blabing the whole story line of ch. 3 ;P.