Resurrection Shrines [Archive]

Scutilla

20-08-2006, 16:08

This might actually be a better question for the Lore forum- why do players revive instantly while others only respawn after the players are gone?

I thought perhaps it was only that the Chosen (i.e. player characters) could be brought back from the dead- hence why we never tried to resurrect Rurik, Saidra, Brechnar, Togo, Yijo, etc. But a number of monsters use resurrection spells, so that doesn't work. Plus we know Togo is a Chosen, since he was able to take the Celestial Test.

I guess it's just yet another case of suspension of disbelief- monster's don't use rez shrines to make it easier for the player (same reason why the entire map of monsters don't swarm the part as soon as they leave town, which an intelligent monster group would do), and making NPCs stay dead for the sake of the storyline.

Looking at the luxon henchies, it's obvious that monsters are resurrected whenever we leave the areas. There's no other way how these monsters could end up working for the player, otherwise.
Ah crap, you mean I have to go kill the Lich AGAIN? :tongue:

Azrael STX

20-08-2006, 16:27

Also, considering the frequency of resurrection shrines (especially in Factions where they all have shrine keepers), it seems they weren't simply built for the sake of a select few. I doubt all those Kurzick and Luxon shrine keepers would have much business if the shrines only worked for you =P

nkuvu

20-08-2006, 17:07

This might actually be a better question for the Lore forum- why do players revive instantly while others only respawn after the players are gone?
I'd be willing to bet a chitin fragment that there is such a thread already.

DKS

21-08-2006, 06:28

I always wondered a similar thing myself...why is Rurik(or whatever other dead NPC) dead forever when he dies, yet player characters and henchies can die dozens of times, and with a simple usage of Rebirth, or Rez Signet, or Restore Life, or whatever they're back, but just a little bit weaker cause of the DP?

Xandlyn

21-08-2006, 07:20

Ah crap, you mean I have to go kill the Lich AGAIN? :tongue:

The janitor came in to wax/clean the Bloodstone and found the Lich dead. So he removed the body from it and the Lich re-spawned...then being a little ticked off he teleported the janitor in the hot fiery magma. The Lich is giving you the female necro taunt (head shake/finger snap) and said it's on!

I always wondered a similar thing myself...why is Rurik(or whatever other dead NPC) dead forever when he dies, yet player characters and henchies can die dozens of times, and with a simple usage of Rebirth, or Rez Signet, or Restore Life, or whatever they're back, but just a little bit weaker cause of the DP?
The lich took Rurik's soul thus the un-dead zombie prince at the end of the game. There was no way for him to re-spawn.

DKS

22-08-2006, 02:09

The lich took Rurik's soul thus the un-dead zombie prince at the end of the game. There was no way for him to re-spawn.

We were there. We had rez skills. The lich never would have had a CHANCE to take his soul if we would have just freakin used Rez Sig.

Zayren

22-08-2006, 02:30

There is a spirit of frozen soil that only affects mobs when your in the zone, and the reason NPC's don't/can't be rezzed, is because of the story-line, I mean if Rurik came back to life, how could he be Undead Rurik on Hell's Precipice? Or if Togo came back, then nobody would have even cared for a second that Shiro stabbed him, or the Emperor if Shiro actually ended up killing him, it's all about the story. (But why do Ghostly Heroes rez in PvP but not PvE...?)

Zaxares

22-08-2006, 04:19

This discussion has bigger repercussions for the GW world.

So, if anything in the world can be ressed, what does that mean for the ecological balance? It could be possible for a farmer/ranger to feed an entire CITY with his pet warthog. Kill it, carve off choice sections of its body, res it, kill it again, carve off more flesh. Repeat ad infinitum.

How then, do we arrive at a situation where more than half of the population of Kaineng City is starving?? :undecided:

Quintus Antonius

22-08-2006, 04:30

Please move this to the General Lore Forum so we can properly tear it apar...I mean.....discuss it.

Mularc Templare

22-08-2006, 08:21

Oddly, the view that we are "chosen" is probably true for both campians. In Prophesies, we are chosen in the fact that we can ascend, and get the attention of the gods, and thus gain "True Sight", a gift which the Mursaat believed to have found in a race of humans from the Isle of Janthir.

In Factions, we gain this ability from the Oracle of the Mysts, who probably has some ability of "True Sight" as well...its the same effect, yet in Factions, it can only be seen in us when the Oracle sees it himself.

On Ressurect Shrines (sorry for getting so off-topic), Factions provides as much better point - the priest will not not ressurect you unless he or she (its hard to tell what sex those redemptors are) choose to. Would you ressurect something that could quite easily kill you? As for Prophesies, it could be the avatars of the gods who choose whether to ressurect you or not, and thus why the chosen are resuurected only.

Plus remember - the Guild Wars world is tied heavily by fate. If you stay dead, it's because you were supposed to die.

Mularc

Quintus Antonius

22-08-2006, 15:37

Might it also be possible that we are wearing something, such as a signet ring, that allows us to be ressurrected but that we don't know about since it isn't a part of the game mechanic?

Nemeon Lion

22-08-2006, 16:43

Might it also be possible that we are wearing something, such as a signet ring, that allows us to be ressurrected but that we don't know about since it isn't a part of the game mechanic?

sory, but this is well worth a WTF moment:

WTF? :laugh:

now to be on - topic:

i agree, fate rules the world of GW. The gods choose who to rezz or not, so dont kill em :laugh:

lavenbb

23-08-2006, 02:51

In some RPGs, fallen in battle != dead. If you think of it that way, when your hp hits 0 in battle, you "faint" and given some first aid (res) you can be healed. The res isn't perfect, so you get some DP, but given enough sleep (place of rest as defined by Anet an outpost) you can fully recover.

AerasaBloodarrow

23-08-2006, 03:24

In prophecies I would say that we can't 'die' because we are part of the Flameseeker Prophecies; maybe some higher god'ish power? They said that the true evil of factions & prophecies is actually the same. Therefor in factions, were still heroes; just born somewhere else; with a diffrent background but with the same future. Therefor again we can't/mustn't die as the Gods need us in a battle where they are the weaker ones.

Some heroes are bound to die (think Togo, Rurik), some others have to stay alive to save the day from a bigger issue than some charr, undead, titans, wacked-out citizen of Orr, afflicted, etc, etc

Just my toughts, I'm not a lore expert altrough I read it and enjoyed it. So don't kill me if I'm wrong. ^^

False Visage

23-08-2006, 12:56

The important thing to remember is that each shrine is dedicated to one of the five maor gods and this can't be an accident. Yes, people can ressurect other people through their own spiritual power but the ressurection at the shrines must be a divine act. I'm sure this would also extend to some of the wild "monsters" as we've seen, in the case of Tengu, that creatures we thought were monsters do have cultures and societies.

I think that in order for you to be ressurected in such a fashion, you would need to have potential or be powerful, and have some kind of role to play in the god's plans. However, Guild Wars is inhernetly biased to the human perspective anyway, so that does complicate the matter somewhat.

Ranger Nietzsche

23-08-2006, 17:02

well the only monsters I've ever witnessed using a ressurection skill is the Ressurect Gargoyles in Ascalon who use a Monster Skill REssurect and Zu Hanuku from the Boreas Seabed mission who uses ressurect the monk skill in what is an obvious game mechanic (he uses the res and you kill the little guys to fuel the spear to kill Zu Hanuku)

as for monsters "ressing" when we leave an area is this necessarily true? Aside from bosses (who may have a "fate" tie in) we can't distinguish one monster serf from another, perhaps there are just one hell of a lot of monsters int eh GW world.

Katscratched

09-09-2006, 08:50

perhaps there are just one hell of a lot of monsters int eh GW world.

. . . the White Mantle breed like bunnies.

Monster bodies do disappear, much like our own when we are rezzed. Maybe they have their own rez shrines? Shrines that are very very far away. . .

Quintus Antonius

09-09-2006, 12:44

Or maybe, because everything is static and instanced, when you leave an area, it reverts back to the state it was in before your entered it, just like towns and outposts, only without other people.

Katscratched

09-09-2006, 17:44

Or maybe, because everything is static and instanced, when you leave an area, it reverts back to the state it was in before your entered it, just like towns and outposts, only without other people.

Aww, that's no fun :rolleyes:
(Nonetheless, I hold to the argument that White Mantle breed like bunnies.)

Shorefire

10-09-2006, 01:30

halfthought

10-09-2006, 01:45

actually, I think "rezing" with rez shrines as is really not part of the story line, it sld really be considered as not part of the story line, and ignored... rezing is really figuaral I think its just a "really potent heal" that "dieing" is really woudned or knocked out, and rez spells can only work if they are not dead. as for rez shrines, supposedly, accoding to the story line, your character has not died... "wipes" would be considered nto to have happend, and u simply respawn sort of as a "checkpoint" even though u keep items and exp.. the only time u have "died" is

SPOILER
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shiro wipes u in vizunah

Ranger Nietzsche

11-09-2006, 18:14

Or maybe, because everything is static and instanced, when you leave an area, it reverts back to the state it was in before your entered it, just like towns and outposts, only without other people.

thats the most unlore thing i've ever heard you say.

IM SO PROUD :thumbsup:

Ostriig

11-09-2006, 23:14

Quintus Antonius

11-09-2006, 23:29

Well, come on, this was bordering on ridicious. The theories were getting so complex and confusing, that even I couldn't follow them. I was waiting for someone to start using string theory or something.

Resurrection, except in instances of storyline, is just a game dynamic. It's like asking if all those swirlling white whirlpools everywhere are part of the lore. Why our characters rez, definitely lore; why monsters rez after we leave, game dynamic.

Kalidri

12-09-2006, 00:02

Maybe, the reason why we can be rezed is the fact that Dwayna intervenes for us...

Or....

Grenth has so many people right now from the afflicted plague, searing, Orr's Cataclysm, dwarven civil-war, etc... he has more people than he can handle, so he decides to send people back.

Yea and Grenth gets the 5 cent Krytan redemption for each monk he returns!:cutie:

I always go by the theory that dead PCs and NPCs are just 'mostly dead', thus explaining the death penalty each time they come back. Basically if you did get your head cut off or your soul stolen or other unpleasantness (deletion by the gods aaarrrgghhh!), you would not come back.

I think the gods are just being generous with the shrines. (especially if no mobs spawn nearby).

Sable Phoenix

18-09-2006, 21:55

So you're basically a Highlander-style immortal? You can't die normally, but choppy-chop to the neck and you're gone for good?

Somehow that doesnt work for me (although I do agree that decapitation or some other form of dismemberment is too extreme for a monk to handle and would require direct intervention from the gods to fix -- being eaten whole by something big, being cut in two, being crushed flat beneath giant boulders, and other extreme forms of damage would also fall into this category).

Not everyone in the GW world has the blessing of the gods; there are peasants galore, farmers, millers, tanners, the vast majority of everyday people for whom death is the end, just like in our world. For whatever reason, in exchange for service to the gods the magic users of this world (that's us players) have been granted a measure of power that allows them to stave off the end, even if that end is brought about by violent means. When you imagine an army made up of people who are so touched by gods that they are almost unkillable, it's no surprise that these people have formed guilds that wield greater power than the armies of entire kingdoms.

Shorefire

19-09-2006, 15:10

Take alliance battles for instance. All of the "God Chosen" are fighting one another, and corpses basically litter the areas. Yet we are resurrected to continue the fighting, maybe due to Balthazar's amusement over our battles, hence the Balthazar faction we get for kills in alliance battles.

nubnub

26-09-2006, 04:03

In terms of the world of Guild Wars, I think we resurrect at the shrines because we are allied with them. The enemies don't, because they're bad guys.

moenbase

27-09-2006, 02:12

What I find more interesting to know is why (a lot?) of 'high devoloped' races, for example the Mursaat hasn't learned any resurection skill?
Do they feel so superior that they don't expect to die? Might be. And it does make sense, really.
Or wasn't it granted to them for some reason?

However, certain dwarves of the Stone Summit uses Resurect, like those priests. It would've make sense for them to bring a Rez with them when they took Thunderhead Keep as well. Especially with the upcomming thread from the south.

I can't say anything bright about the Resurection Shrines. The henchies and we are getting rezzed. But when we take Togo or Mhenlo along, they won't get rezzed. I don't think there is much Lore about that.
And if there is, why don't we get rezzed in missions as well?

About Death Penalty. When you lose (a battle) your morality goes down, you think that you can't do it anyway, so why do you bother?
In realtime war they upped the morality of soldiers with whistles, songs, drums, and whatever comes to mind. It gives them more strenght. However their real power doesn't really increase, it's just the 'thought' that makes them stronger.
If we lose in GuildWars the low morality is shown as a -xx Death Penalty. You are not less stronger, it's only our minds that think we are weaker. And it's shown as a decrease in health.
When you win a battle, it goes up again because you think your stronger.
When you keep winning battles you won't feel much stronger anyway because you'll know you will win yet again. Only a challenge, like something relativly difficult, a boss monster would raise the moral.
It's all psychology I guess. It all makes much sense to me. Not sure if I explained it well enough, but I think this is what's going on...

MadCatvanHelsing

27-09-2006, 16:31

Maybe it's just a question of balance, death is negative, life is positive.
It has to be balanced, but giving life is much more positive than death is negative. Thats why not all nice npc's are rezzed, and you can choose to atack, but mob's always atack, whatever you do.

What about this dialoue, if the gods choose to who dies for ever and who only temporary:

Grenth: DWAYNA!!!
Dwayna: huh?
Grenth: What did I tell you, I'm supposed to choose who dies, and who not. So stop messing.
Dwayna: But he looks much better when he's alive and she has such beautiful hair. And the bunny just was to cute :D
Grenth: He? SHE??? A BUNNY?!?!?! I was talking about that idiotic healer hench in Cantha.... Just stop it.
Dwayna: /taunt
Dwayna: Make me :P
Grenth: (using Stewie voice) Damn you woman, damn you to the UW
Dwayna: Oh yeah, you wish.
Grenth: whatever *leaves room*
Balthazar to Dwayna: you know you realy pissed him off this time.
Dwayna: your point is ? ;)
(on the background Melandru thinks she is high on something and Lyssa is casting something and laughing.)

Shorefire

28-09-2006, 04:14

Grenth: DWAYNA!!!
Dwayna: huh?
Grenth: What did I tell you, I'm supposed to choose who dies, and who not. So stop messing.
Dwayna: But he looks much better when he's alive and she has such beautiful hair. And the bunny just was to cute :D
Grenth: He? SHE??? A BUNNY?!?!?! I was talking about that idiotic healer hench in Cantha.... Just stop it.
Dwayna: /taunt
Dwayna: Make me :P
Grenth: (using Stewie voice) Damn you woman, damn you to the UW
Dwayna: Oh yeah, you wish.
Grenth: whatever *leaves room*
Balthazar to Dwayna: you know you realy pissed him off this time.
Dwayna: your point is ? ;)
(on the background Melandru thinks she is high on something and Lyssa is casting something and laughing.)

haha, what would happen if all the gods were on That 70's Show.

But I seriously believe we are rezed due to the attention glint, eventually the gods, and other powerful people give us. As for Togo and Mhenlo, their noobs and the gods dont care (just kidding, it all comes down to game mechanics for them)

moenbase

28-09-2006, 09:30

It only says "I'm dead!"/"xxx xxx is dead!" when you ctrl + click on urself/someone.

But when for example a mission is failed, it says "the party has fallen" or something simulair.
Perhaps there is some kind of difference?

Gagabraino

16-12-2006, 18:49

I thoerise that only we can use resurrect shrines because we worship the 5 gods, which is why Mursaat, Titans, Charr, White Mantle, Stone Summit, Forgotten, Margonites, Outcast, Wardens, Afflicted, Naga, Tusked Howlers, Veldt, Plants & etc can't use them.

Resurrection skills themself are simply talents that the Gods left on Tyria AE.