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View Full Version : Oh noes! Vamp Touch teams may get better with Paragons



arredondo
21-08-2006, 05:54
This is kinda funny actually. If nothing changes much from now until final release we could see new and improved Vamp Touch teams. Put a few together with at least one Paragon and their long-term killing ability actually increases. Not just the Ranger version, but it may mean that even a few Necro Touch builds could become viable where each L18 Vampiric Touch is a -/+83 point life steal. Three Necros doing that on a target will do a total 250 point Blood steal per team touch (that's death after two touches!). Here's the one Paragon skill that makes this all possible:


Aria of Power (Chant) For 10...34 (42 at L16) seconds, each ally within earshot gains 2 Energy regeneration until that ally casts a spell.

25E/1s cast/45s recharge


So all Touch Rangers (or Touch Necros!) can turn on Awaken the Blood for +2 Blood stats, which lasts 47 seconds at L12 with a +20% enchant mod on the Blood staff, to easily outlast AoP's 45 second recharge. During that entire 45s touch attack-fest, the Rangers have +5E regen while the Necros have +6E regen. When AoP runs out, they put AtB back up so the spell doesn't ever conflict with the Chant.

As long as they don't cast a spell and only use Vamp Touch/Vamp Bite/Touch of Agony/Wallow's Bite, they each have terrific energy regeneration to do their damage. +5E regen on a Ranger with high Expertise is pretty wicked, especially since he'll still have his elite slot open. This allows him to bring Escape for 75% evades for 15s (at L14 Exp) along with +25% speed buff to chase down the victims. :shocked:

The Necros still have to manage energy well to spam 15E skills, but their elite slot is open too. The Paragon can also bring Aria of Zeal, which gives up to +10E to all in earshot if a spell is used within 10s. Combine that with L18 Offering of Blood for +22E everytime Aria of Power runs out and that OoB becomes an instant +32E boost every 45s.

The Touch Necros can also bring Blood Ritual (a touch skill) for each other with no AoP penalty since they are all touching together anyway. This adds another +3E regen for up to 15s, or a total of +9E regen when combined with Aria of Power. A Necro team can definitely spam 15E Touch skills with that amount of regen and energy bonus. Blood Rit has only a 2s recharge, and the -25% sacrifice penalty is -127 HP or so under AtB, which is quickly healed by two L18 Vamp Touch/Bites for a total +166 HP.

For the Necros I'd consider sending them as Ne/As for Dark Escape. At L10 Shadow Arts they have 12s of +25% speed and also -50% damage with a 30s recharge. Definitely a good stance for Touch Necros, and there are still other slots open.

Heh, if this catches on for either class, people who hate Touchers now will really despise them in Nightfall.

Zingeri
21-08-2006, 07:27
Touchers only have one weakness: Smart Players.

Paragons won't change that.

upier
21-08-2006, 10:42
The Touch Necros can also bring Blood Ritual (a touch skill) for each other with no AoP penalty since they are all touching together anyway. This adds another +3E regen for up to 15s, or a total of +9E regen when combined with Aria of Power.


BR is a spell. So that would cancel AoP wouldnt it? Same with OoB.
Or am i missing something?

But on the rangers - this might be a bit too evil - nice catch!

arredondo
21-08-2006, 11:01
Well OoB was to be used with Aria of Zeal every 45s for +32E, but you're right about BR and I should've caught that. It's a touch move, but a touch spell instead of skill. I've always wanted the Necros to actually be able to spam their own touch attacks, but I guess in the end this may only aid the Rangers.

Findariel
21-08-2006, 11:31
Itīs a bit ironic that Aria benefits everyone in battle - except casters.
Assassins, warriors with energy skills, thumpers, touchies, rangers ...

ijack
21-08-2006, 11:33
What toucher lack is not energy.

It is diversity and adaptability. It was a one trick pwny before, it still is.

critical vengeance
21-08-2006, 16:48
Told you aria of power is awesome :P That's not the only skills to help touchies


Fall Back!

For 4-10 seconds, all allies within earshot gain 5-15 Health per second while moving and move 25% faster. "Fall back!" ends on an ally affected by this Shout when that ally successfully hits with an attack. 15 eNone 25 r

not great, but useful

song of Purification

For 20 seconds, the next 1-3 skills used by each ally within earshot remove one Condition from that ally. 5 (adrenal) 2 activate5 recharge

Well troll unguent can counter degen heal and remove a codition, not to mean pleague touch and deal with 2 conditions at a time

defensive Anthem


For 4-10 seconds, each party member within earshot have a 50% chance to block incoming attacks. This chan ends if that ally hits with an attack skill. 15 e 1 activate 25 recharge

Even more evasioness :o

Never Give Up!
All allies within earshot and below 50% Health gain 5-15 Energy. 5 e none 20 recharge

When you out of energy.. well if you do, this boosts you up some, not great but it is a cheap skill

Zealous Anthem
For 10 seconds, the next time each ally within earshot uses a skill, that ally gains 3-10 Energy. 10 1 20

More energy!

arredondo
21-08-2006, 17:08
What toucher lack is not energy.

It is diversity and adaptability. It was a one trick pwny before, it still is.

Even Touchies need mana after their initial barrage. That's why a lot of them bring OoB as their elite. As for offensive diversity, what's to stop them from bringing something like Vamp Gaze? At 5E pips, they can soften up a target from spell distance before moving in for the kill.

Findariel: Yeah, it seems Assassins could benefit decently from this as well; with 5E pips perhaps a return to the easy AoD->GPS->HotO->FS->TF combo. Since GPS was bumped up to 10E it's been tougher to run as smoothly. I'm sure other "new" setups could be exploited with the bonus energy regen considering Zealous and high Critical Strikes add more mana.

EDIT: AoD is a spell and will cancel AoP. It's not always an easy fit I guess.

critical vengence: Zealous Anthem does look like a nice addition for them!

zweistein
21-08-2006, 17:48
Even Touchies need mana after their initial barrage. That's why a lot of them bring OoB as their elite. As for offensive diversity, what's to stop them from bringing something like Vamp Gaze? At 5E pips, they can soften up a target from spell distance before moving in for the kill.

Findariel: Yeah, it seems Assassins could benefit decently from this as well; with 5E pips perhaps a return to the easy AoD->GPS->HotO->FS->TF combo. Since GPS was bumped up to 10E it's been tougher to run as smoothly. I'm sure other "new" setups could be exploited with the bonus energy regen considering Zealous and high Critical Strikes add more mana.

EDIT: AoD is a spell and will cancel AoP. It's not always an easy fit I guess.

critical vengence: Zealous Anthem does look like a nice addition for them!

gaze is spell too ... thou they can get barbed signet in its place...

arredondo
21-08-2006, 17:54
Lol, yeah I guess I have +5E pips in my head more than the fact that spells are off limits.

critical vengeance
21-08-2006, 18:05
gaze is spell too ... thou they can get barbed signet in its place...


Lyric of Zeal
For 10 seconds, the next time each ally within earshot uses a Signet, that ally gains 3-10 Energy 6 (adrenal) 1 second activate 5 second recharge


Even more energy O_O

eximiis
21-08-2006, 20:58
now imagine in GvG


5 touch ranger

1 anthem paragon

2 monk (6 pips of regen) with 3 life bond and 3 vital blessing for each monk
-they can heal with 2-3 signet which would give energy gain with one of the anthem. they can also use mesmer stance that cut recharge time of signet. they can also use mesmer signet.

rexkenley
21-08-2006, 22:17
What toucher lack is not energy.

It is diversity and adaptability. It was a one trick pwny before, it still is.

Not anymore, there are now long range touch rangers. They have the basic touch skills but can do range dmg.

zweistein
21-08-2006, 23:54
now imagine in GvG

5 touch ranger

1 anthem paragon

2 monk (6 pips of regen) with 3 life bond and 3 vital blessing for each monk
-they can heal with 2-3 signet which would give energy gain with one of the anthem. they can also use mesmer stance that cut recharge time of signet. they can also use mesmer signet.

pawned by any half decent team.

your two monks simply dont have healing power. signets dont trigger divine favor, have long casting time, etc etc ...

this team simply cant split without huge loss of efectivity, thats to need for their para be in rage when chants are reaplied.

there is little flag run support, one ranger can run flag, but would get massacerd by enemy flagrunner (either cripshot or windborne ele with ice spikes)

there is no way to take out npcs before finall battle efectivelly - teleport is simply not there, ranger npcs funily use pindown

---

basically, bonders there suck a bit. there is reason you dont see touchies in GvG, this wouldnt change it

critical vengeance
22-08-2006, 00:31
it just sounds like it will be a more annoying time in team battles, that or alliance battles or something. I expect paragons to mesh well with barrage rangers and warriors, i mean +2 energy regeneration is verrry good.

Cirian
01-09-2006, 12:45
Forget Vamp Gaze, take Blood Drinker. It does more damage for half the cost and you can Plague Touch the 10s bleed over too for even more damage.

VILenin
01-09-2006, 16:52
Even Touchies need mana after their initial barrage. That's why a lot of them bring OoB as their elite. As for offensive diversity, what's to stop them from bringing something like Vamp Gaze? At 5E pips, they can soften up a target from spell distance before moving in for the kill.

Findariel: Yeah, it seems Assassins could benefit decently from this as well; with 5E pips perhaps a return to the easy AoD->GPS->HotO->FS->TF combo. Since GPS was bumped up to 10E it's been tougher to run as smoothly. I'm sure other "new" setups could be exploited with the bonus energy regen considering Zealous and high Critical Strikes add more mana.

EDIT: AoD is a spell and will cancel AoP. It's not always an easy fit I guess.

critical vengence: Zealous Anthem does look like a nice addition for them!
Screw magic! An assassin can easily put up Way of Perfection or Sharpen Daggers before the shout comes up, then go to town with a Palm Strike > Horns > GPS > TF combo.


it just sounds like it will be a more annoying time in team battles, that or alliance battles or something. I expect paragons to mesh well with barrage rangers and warriors, i mean +2 energy regeneration is verrry good.
Any particular reason why you specified Barrage Rangers and warriors when 1) Barrage barely costs almost no energy with high Expertise and Zealous bowstring already, and
2) Warriors usually rely on adrenaline anyway?

It sounds to me like Aria of Power would be more useful for a Big Shot (Melandru's Shot, Penetrating Attack, Sundering Attack, Marauder's Shot) ranger than for a Barrager... after all, Big Shots do massive damage but run out of energy fast. Similarly, assassins will definitely benefit more from AoP, because their skills are energy-based.

MaximumSquid
01-09-2006, 19:43
Aria of Power is definitly going to change a lot of things.

A-net might have to make skills that put a lid on skill spammers.

I already toss one idea (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=416753) out there on the Mesmer Forum.

I'm not going to jump to too many conclusions though until the next beta where we get to see what every class has to work with.

I mean. . .

Aria of Power might get nerfed or there might be a better combo to run than it.

Just gotta wait.

critical vengeance
07-09-2006, 02:29
yeah who knows that might have something like

aria of energy - elite chant - gives 3 pips of energy regeneration :P wouldn't that be nice thing. Of course i doubt it, although if they did nerf aria of power it would be cool to have an elite to have something like aria of power 1 pip, new thing 2, total of 3 :o

yazaga
07-09-2006, 23:32
Really touchers are just a nuisance, but then again maybe someone said that about IWAY, when it started. We will see. The more scary part i think is warriors and their energy skills and trappers too.

VILenin
10-09-2006, 16:48
Really touchers are just a nuisance, but then again maybe someone said that about IWAY, when it started. We will see. The more scary part i think is warriors and their energy skills and trappers too.
I'd be more scared of the assassins.

critical vengeance
10-09-2006, 21:14
problem is even if the assassin has all the energy in the world you could never recharge fast enough... although spirit of quickening zeipur or whatever it is called could go well then hmmm