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Jummeh
23-08-2006, 22:34
http://gwshack.us/91eab

We have played this a couple of times with varying degrees of success.
Played 6 won 4. One of them, we were owned by NR and the other, we had our assassin drop about 10 minutes into the game. We held to VoD but didn't manage to push for the win, our rit got killed just before VoD and their (although lessened) NPCs protected by spirits overwhelmed ours.

Basic idea is to split, almost from the word go, although the 2 characters compliment the defense team well if they needed them to.


I suppose its mainly lacking spirit killing capabilities, although the gank team makes quick work of NPCs. Just any suggestions would be appreciated.

David Holtzman
24-08-2006, 01:14
Needs disruption and heal party. You have no interrupt or shutdown really.

Cantos
24-08-2006, 03:16
I am confused that you say you cant counter spirits. Spirits are not counterable beyond mobility. If you can violate lines with impunity then the Ritualist is countered. If you can split the team, the Ritualist is countered. You are running a dedicated gank team, but maybe you should try splitting your monks and do a more traditional 4:4.

I think your Ritualist is a waste of space. That position is crying out for a stand ele. Ether Prodigy and Heal Party definitely needs to be on it, Extinguish is nice too. Then you could add a Ward, Blinding Flash, or Blurred Vision so your monks dont explode. Try a Lightning Orb to complement any adrenal spikes you may be doing, try some Water snares. Try Windborne Speed and run flags with it when you need the cripshot on the stand. Hard res goes on here too.

You could experiment with Blessed Light monks if NR is persistently a problem for you.

Your runner is strange. Debilitating Shot and Barbed Trap are somewhat unusual choices. Usually more than one stance goes on here.

neoflame
24-08-2006, 04:33
On EDrain boonprots 12+1+1/9+1/9 (11+1+1/8+1/8+1/9 for the GoH) is generally the best attribute distribution IMO because EDrain hits -8/+16 at 9 Inspiration and doesn't change until 12 Insp. I'd rather have Spirit Bond than Guardian on the GoH monk simply because PS/SB work so nicely. I'd also rather have Signet of Devotion somewhere but that's personal taste...

On a Shock Axe (Rush) guy I prefer 12+3+1/9+1/9+1/3 simply because you get an extra point in Air and Rush has no breakpoints like Sprint does (at 7/9).

Skill choice on the hammer war seems rather unusual to me, I assume Return is used for emergency knockdowns on attackers on allies or something? Still I'd want Frenzy somewhere there, probably in place of TTL now that it doesn't refresh your adren.

3 Rez Sigs and a FomF on a rit (who really should be behind the backline... especially with no defensive stances!) seem a bit minimal.

Jummeh
24-08-2006, 10:40
Thanks for your help ^^
Let me have a another look with your suggestions.

The return is actually used like a deaths charge to sync the adreno spike from both warriors. Basically since the shock war will be moving towards the target anyway, the return is just a 15 second recharge teleport, It can also be used for emergency KDs vs melee pressure on monks.

Oink The Boar
24-08-2006, 18:59
Yeah, I like the use of Return in the build. Recall might be even more interesting...you could then recall your warrior to the gank team.

Is Mend Body and Soul working pretty well to keep conditions off of your Warriors, or might you need to switch to Draw Conditions?

The double boon prot setup makes me sad...like you said, NR does a number on your team, and that's a big part of it. Warriors should be able to take out spirits, but if your Monks can't keep them up and clean in the process, that won't help at all. I would suggest either a Blessed Light Monk or, if your Monk is feeling frisky, a Healing Prayers build.

At 4-2 with this build, I don't feel like it needs much commentary at this time, since you'll probably need to run it more to get a better feel for its strengths and weaknesses. Besides, it has obviously been working for you so far. :)

Jummeh
25-08-2006, 10:29
Mend is actually working great, but I have swapped the rit for an ele now... although as I am not that knowledgeable in ele ways, there is still lots of room for improvement.

Mend effectively is an RC w/o the massive heal, because our spirits tend to stay up for quite a while. Nothing in the likes of displacement which will drop as soon as the animation goes up etc. So 3-4 condition stacks are removed constantly. The monks saved a lot of energy this way. Also its a target ally so it can be used by the rit itself.

Deford
25-08-2006, 21:13
It looks like you went with a defensive build and then at a few points went away from the spirit of the build, it looks like you're not going to be able to do much until vod and are going to have trouble against melee hate, you're defence is also going to have a few issues vs degen with your current runner setup.

A few pointers:
-If you have a rit you are going to be setup for flagstand, but you will be forced out of there against degen unless you have heal parties so you might want to swap the cripshot runner for an emo, preferably a water hexer so that you still have snares.

-Guardian is slow and risky, get it away from those boon prots in favour of signet of devotion. The same could be said of gift of health but it has more uses. Most spikes are stopped easily with a spirit bond + prot spirit combo these days though so you might want to work one in.

-Recall/return is funny in that your location may not be next to the spike target which gives your opponent a bigger window to read the spike, deaths charge lets you enter it right away which is why it is used despite the longer recharge.

-Your offence is anemic on the main group since it only comes from two warriors and the ranger, you are likely to loose morale boosts against good teams due to an inability to kill their runner and they can likely send a monk back to aid in base defence because you are not a big enough threat at the flagstand.

-Your mesmer isn't that useful at the flagstand because there aren't enough hexes in the build to overload removal, you are just at the level where it isn't simply feeding the opposing monks energy and they have to use auxilary removals.

-On the Hammer warrior you will want to swap out mighty blow for fierce blow, it is simply more damage in the spike that way. Otherwise swap out devestating for backbreaker and get a bigger knockdown.

JodoKast
25-08-2006, 23:09
Just a few remarks as i am a guildmate of Jummeh:

- the idea of the build is to be beginner friendly, hence the heavy spike defense in the form of the ritualist. This has allowed us to stay alive more easily against the teams we are facing at our level. Similarly, a good amount of comments regarding potential scenarios do not really compare to reality at our level of play. We get mauled by higher level teams regardless of the build :rolleyes:

- mobility doesn't defeat the Rit at all at the flag stand and even less at VOD when it supports the NPCs

- the monk setup is not reflecting the reality. I am running a blessed light monk, not a boon prot.

- guardian is too slow so swap it for signet of devotion which is even slower ? i don't understand the argument at all. Not to mention it doesn't do the same thing either.

- Return ahead of recall because of the energy upkeep on recall, return ahead of death's charge for the versatility, cost and recharge time(you can't death's charge to an ally during retreat for example or use it to teleport from the flag stand to the top of the hill in meditation island - our GH)

Deford
25-08-2006, 23:57
- guardian is too slow so swap it for signet of devotion which is even slower ? i don't understand the argument at all. Not to mention it doesn't do the same thing either.


Basically here is the issue, Guardian is too slow to be used in response to active pressure. With divine boon up you are paying that extra cost to get a heal out of every cast so unless you are casting it on a target that has already been hit a bit you are wasting energy. If that target is continuing to be hit, a lot of bad things can happen before your 1 second cast has completed. On the other hand if you are casting it on a target that has already gone through it's damage you aren't getting any benifit out of guardian and are actually making them more susceptable to something like irrisistable blow. The reason most of the higher level boon prots run signet of devotion is because for no energy they can provide these top off heals and the longer cast doesn't matter as long as you know how to cancel it and you can work well with your partner monk.

I'm not saying guardian is a bad skill, just that there is a reason most boon prots run signet of devotion where you would run guaridan.

neoflame
26-08-2006, 00:42
WRT MBaS: Doesn't your rit (well, former rit since you say you've got an ele there now) usually stay back to spam spirits with impunity, though? I mean, being able to stay behind the backline is a major reason for even having a rit, and if he is that far back how will he be in range to MBaS blindness off allied warriors at opportune moments?

Tucks
26-08-2006, 02:21
Yay, another gank build designed to go to VoD. Long boring matches for everyone!

Aiiane
26-08-2006, 05:22
Yay, another gank build designed to go to VoD. Long boring matches for everyone!

Last I checked, the goal of GvG was to win, not to die quickly.

Tucks
26-08-2006, 16:59
Last I checked, the goal of GvG was to win, not to die quickly.

I'm just saying that imo that build is lame, because it uses the ritualist spirits, that are overpowered during VoD, plus NPC ganking to win.

David Holtzman
26-08-2006, 20:08
I'm just saying that imo that build is lame, because it uses the ritualist spirits, that are overpowered during VoD, plus NPC ganking to win.

And I'm just saying that "lame" is a made-up scrub term used to define anything that doesn't coincide with the player's set of made up rules he thinks should magically apply to GW.

neoflame
27-08-2006, 00:06
And I'm just saying that "lame" is a made-up scrub term used to define anything that doesn't coincide with the player's set of made up rules he thinks should magically apply to GW.
+1 to this. Play to win, not to entertain; making the two goals the same is ANet's job, not the player's.

Jummeh
27-08-2006, 00:54
I don't think its a lame build that 'waits' for VoD, its an active split, the problem being that a lot of the time you have to face 6v8s or 5v7s.

Since Ritulist and their spirits are in the game(and presumably balanced, long recharge, long cast, high cost), I don't understand how it can be lame.
Its not like the tower team is just turtling in base either.

The idea is to try to upset the other team by not playing what they want you to do, I'm sorry if you find that lame but in any competition, if you do exactly as what your enemy intends you to do, it normally ends in defeat.


http://gwshack.us/6e80f
Anywho, have a look at the new build, the idea is for the Air Ele to pass the flag to one of the warriors and retreat and spam HP and Extinguish. Lightning Hammer is there for when we do have an extra person to participate in a spike, its non-LoS so it suits Meditation's bend at the tower, also it doesn't necessarily put the ele in direct danger of interupts or attacks.

The vapor blade is predominately there for anti spirits, and also nice little skill to catch the odd un-enchanted target. MY only concern is that there is not enough defence on the water ele and maybe I need to pop a personal defence skill in there, but maybe some suggestions for that?

The potential damage for mini-spikes with the 2 warriors + 2 eles is quite large, although surviving a full frontal attack could be a problem, although we can always fall back to the wall and use the choke point to our advantage. The positive spin for that is, the gank team can kill with inpunity. They can clear a base in a little over 5 minutes including running time if they un-molested (that being the first try).
Of course, most teams will send back defenders, its a nice pair of chars and quite powerful. It will also balance the flagstand fight, whose spikes are just as potent.