PDA

View Full Version : A synergy comparison you could already be thinking of.PVE focused



critical vengeance
04-09-2006, 20:54
(pvp is a whole different thing, i focus on pve personally, so if something seems wrong, it might be you have pvp in mind)

Right now i know many of you are thinking about the paragon's spear. The primary attribute does not directly effect spears, but the shout and chants can indirectly help. The paragon also currently lacks an Ias stance, but one may be made, who knows the elites and some skills are not avaiable yet.

When you first saw the paragon it probably seemed a lot like a warrior, adrenlin 2 pips of natural energy regeneration and some other things.

Many people are already thinking of great combinations, like the dervish/monk Some are thinking paragon/warrior and others too.


One thing i do expect due to the fact so many of the spear skills are adrenlin is that we will see mobile tank spear shooters. One edge they have over 16 spear mastery is their primary strengh, the extra armor penetration can help a lot.

In addition i can expect a lot of assassin spear users, heck there was critical barrages why not spear users? Well let's compare some of the con's and pro's of each.

And as we have seen, the pack hunter pre build had much popularity... most of it's power came from the fact it can spam spear of lightning, and have an ias to boost adrenlin build up.

So let's compare

Primary paragon


pros
-not a one trick pony, has other skills from primary to help boost spears
-has use of secondary for an ias or conjure x if wanted.
-armor is better, only behind warrior
-can use it's sheild unlike the pack hunter
-can use the runes for spears


cons

-no ias stance on it's own
-primary doesn't directly effect spear use
-no pants, only weird skirt things (yes i think of that as a con >_>)


Primary Warrior


pros

-strengh increases armor penetration of spears
-Highest armor and has skills to boost armor
-Has an ias stance, quite a few in fact
-has many skills that run on adrenlin as well
-same energy regeneration as paragon and can be boosted to 4 pips like the paragon without negative effects from aria of power, aria of power is not needed really on a high adrenlin build
-will no longer over extend
-one handed spear keeps armor up, so you can deal with damage as most tanks that are not pure stance and or tactics i.e the average (tank)
-has pants

cons

-cannot use aria of power to a good effect as primary can, but not needed really
-most want you to tank rather than this, even though you still can really
-has less vareity if using this
-cannot use paragon runes
-bad hex removal along with condition removal and dealing with them is pretty bad


Primary Assassin

pros

-primary directly effects for damage
-higher energy regeneration and can use a combination of assassin spells to break aggro if targeted
-critical eye can be used to add more critical hits.
-won't over extend and die
-has pants

cons

-may not have enough points left over to use sheild
-assassin is still unwanted by most people
-really another one trick pony if this is used
-might end up have too much energy left over, but can be solved with using spear of lightning more or more spells
-lowest armor tied with ranger, but even if you break aggro with something like viper defense or heart of the shadow you still have less evasion stances.
- cannot use paragon runes
- bad hex and condition problems




Primary Ranger



pros

-expertise directly lowers the cost of skills like spear of lightning
-has many ias stances as well as evasive ones
-1 pip extra of energy regeneration
-already proven to be incredibly useful
-has pants


cons

-usually will not have enough points left over to use a sheild
-cannot use paragon runes
-the spam of skills can usually get you destroyed by anti-melee type skills such as recklass haste with empathy and or spiteful spirit and other spells
-one trick pony
-cannot deal with hexes and conditions well
-many will want b/p rangers for aoe damage rather than this



I might have missed some i was thinking of, being labor day in all i just felt like typing this while i had it on my mind.

Fownkaymownkay
05-09-2006, 14:34
Not sure if Assasins and Rits can go into Nightfall PvE..

Other than that, yeah your points make sense. Pure Paragon is awesome, but I guess a Warrior shout or 2 make life a whole lot easier.

Oh, and I can't WAIT to try out a beastmaster Paragon. :afro:

keydet
05-09-2006, 19:33
Not sure if Assasins and Rits can go into Nightfall PvE..

Other than that, yeah your points make sense. Pure Paragon is awesome, but I guess a Warrior shout or 2 make life a whole lot easier.

Oh, and I can't WAIT to try out a beastmaster Paragon. :afro:


ArenaNet/NCSoft did make it possible to take your Prophecies and Factions characters back and forth. Also they were heavily inspired by the card game Magic:The Gathering, and you can mix up the various decks in that. I see no reason why they won't make it possible for any character from a linked account to travel to Elona.

On a side note, I tried out the "Pack Hunter" (think that was the name of the BM paragon) during the preview weekend. It did good damage and using Enraged Lunge to gain adrenaline helped keep at least one of your spear attacks charged at all times.

critical vengeance
05-09-2006, 20:24
yeah pack hunters were pretty powerful, i really do think lightning spear might get like a 4 second recharge or something a little higher.

but it was just a ranger/paragon really, not a paragon bm, which would have been cooler :grin:

VILenin
12-09-2006, 14:09
Primary Assassin

pros

-primary directly effects for damage
-higher energy regeneration and can use a combination of assassin spells to break aggro if targeted
-critical eye can be used to add more critical hits.
-won't over extend and die
-has pants
Spear Assassin might have some good points. The spear seems to be a good alternative to the bow for those that want a one-handed ranged weapon. That being said, female Imperial armor doesn't have pants.

critical vengeance
12-09-2006, 15:44
>_> well that is true about the pants :P Still the trend appears that they try to give the female toons the least armor as possible while somehow maintaining the fact it can stop a sword going through you.

I think the critical barragers may have a better rep, well i guess it just depends, adrenline powered spears attacks might work out better in the end. We will just have to see how it goes i guess.

zweistein
12-09-2006, 18:40
A/P wont work well.

Crit baragers work well only because one thing: Barage is multitarget and it has ultra fast cooldown. Remove this skill from build and its worthless. i playerd crit barrager, but imho its just niche that gets you party and helps sin progress in game, but its not efective build. (energy manamgement is way too much luck dependant, only good thing that sin can bring to crit barrager is bledding...)

Paragon spears (so far) dont have any multiattack skills, nether A or P have decent attack speed boost, and 12 vs 16 is huge difference (even with high crits, 16 in spears still offers more - bigger +damage to skills)

not to mention that sin will have to invest ~9 points to shield linked stat if he wants that defence.

Akirai Annuvil
12-09-2006, 19:26
Yes but an Assassin has more lockdown skills which could prove useful, and Siphon Strength might have a use (*gasp*) since there are now more physical attackers, and the crit is very nice...

critical vengeance
12-09-2006, 20:39
still the combination of spells the assassin has to offer could mesh well with the spears, besides it would seem as if the assassin is getting some new skills in nightfall. There could be some great synergy. Later i'll post a concept build of something cool, i just need a while because i have to go soon.

Phoebus
12-09-2006, 20:53
A/P and P/A have no IAS skills.
IAS alone increases base DPS and adrenaline generation by 50%, there's no way Assassins can beat that.

critical vengeance
12-09-2006, 22:17
who needs an ias or even high weapon mastery when you have about a 50% chance to land a critical hit?

Well just do this type of a/p build

high critical hits i would say 13+
high deadly arts
semi decent shadow
whatever if any is left put in spear


Siphon Strength



For 5-10 seconds, target foe deals -5-50 damage with attacks and all of your attacks against that foe have an additional 33% chance of being a critical hit. This is an elite skill. 15 energy 1 10 recharge

Critical Eye

For 10-30 seconds, you have an additional 1-6% chance to land a critical hit when attacking. You gain 1 Energy whenever you score a critical hit. 5 energy None 30 recharge

Shadow Refuge

For 4 seconds, you gain 5-9 health regeneration.. When Shadow Refuge ends, you gain 20-68 if you are attacking. 5 1 8

then some spear skills and a rez


Yes it is a wierd concept, and it may or may not work, but still if it does :) it would be awesome, since even though you may not be attacking 33% faster, you have a good 50% chance of crit'ing.

If under attack you are not very well off without a sheild lol :P

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And while i am at it i should post a concept mobile warrior spear chucker


The moving/stationary turret

Dolyak Signet
For 8-18 seconds, you have +10-34 armor and cannot be knocked down, but your movement is slowed by 75%. None None 20

Battle Rage
For 5-17 seconds, you move 25% faster and gain double adrenaline from attacks. Battle Rage ends if you use any non-attack skills. When Battle Rage ends, you lose all adrenaline. This is an elite skill. 4 Adrenaline None None

Healing Signet
You gain 40-130 health. You have -40 armor while using this skill. None 2 second activate 4 second recharge

Barbed Spear
If this attack hits, your target begins bleeding for 5-15 seconds. 3 (adrenal) None None

blazing Spear
If this attack hits, you deal + 5-30 damage and sets target foe on Fire for 1-3 seconds. 7 (adrenal) None None

Cruel Spear
If this attack hits, you deal + 5-30 damage. If it hits a non-moving target, you inflict a Deep Wound for 10 seconds. 7 (adrenal) None None

Wild Throw
If this attack hits, it deals + 5-20 damage, and any Stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be "blocked" or "evaded." 7 (adrenal) None None

rez




just activate the doylak signet before the battle rage thing and then rock and roll with double adrenlin... man that will be cool :P

lifeinthefridge
12-09-2006, 22:59
hmm i seem to agree and dissagre in some regards

zweistein
12-09-2006, 23:32
who needs an ias or even high weapon mastery when you have about a 50% chance to land a critical hit?

Well just do this type of a/p build

high critical hits i would say 13+
high deadly arts
semi decent shadow
whatever if any is left put in spear


Siphon Strength



For 5-10 seconds, target foe deals -5-50 damage with attacks and all of your attacks against that foe have an additional 33% chance of being a critical hit. This is an elite skill. 15 energy 1 10 recharge

Critical Eye

For 10-30 seconds, you have an additional 1-6% chance to land a critical hit when attacking. You gain 1 Energy whenever you score a critical hit. 5 energy None 30 recharge

Shadow Refuge

For 4 seconds, you gain 5-9 health regeneration.. When Shadow Refuge ends, you gain 20-68 if you are attacking. 5 1 8

then some spear skills and a rez


Yes it is a wierd concept, and it may or may not work, but still if it does :) it would be awesome, since even though you may not be attacking 33% faster, you have a good 50% chance of crit'ing.

If under attack you are not very well off without a sheild lol :P



people make mistakes about how attack speeds work. you dont get 33% more hits. you swing 33% faster which means that you got 1.5 more attacks in same perod of time than without ias.

siphon strenght is touch range, you have to move to meele to use it. thats pve suicide for sin (without shield). if you would use shield, you would have to split to stats, 2 of which cant be boosted by runes.

also, critical hit means basically that you hit as if weapon had mastery 4 higher and you are guaranteed max-damage hit. so if you have lowish (~9) weapon mastery, you hit way less hard than you would be hitting with non-crits on 16.

---

basically: full mastery and ias -> crits and weapon mastery.

critical vengeance
12-09-2006, 23:42
didn't know it was touch range, never used the skill. O well, poor assassin lose out again :D

Good beating the idea with a stick with you though ;) I think warrior and paragons plus rangers should have a good time with spears, although paragons have plenty of other things they might just excell at enough you don't want them heavly focused at spears.

zweistein
13-09-2006, 09:20
yeah, primary warriors will actually be awesome spear chuckers., maybe better than primary rangers

one word: Flourish.

critical vengeance
13-09-2006, 19:06
hmmm flourish might not be the best bbet since a lot of the skills don't need to be recharged, because they don't have recharge skills, just adrenlin mainly.

zweistein
13-09-2006, 20:45
hmmm flourish might not be the best bbet since a lot of the skills don't need to be recharged, because they don't have recharge skills, just adrenlin mainly.
true, but its more of wenergy mamangement that skill recharge.

that way, you will have skills recharged a tad faster (not really necesary), but you will have energy to chain energy attacks just like expertize ranger would do, but with AP bonus (and frenzy :-)

critical vengeance
13-09-2006, 22:04
problem is i only see a couple attack skills to use with spears that have a skill time recharge, flourish although good may not be the best elite to use :)

edit: had the wrong idea in mind when you mentioned flourish, still have pve in mind. After seeing your other build i can defiantly seeing good stuff happening. for pvp of course using flourish on a spear build.