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flexiboy
10-09-2006, 14:09
Hey,

i was in HA today when we faced a death spike team, they were very powerfull and i was wondering the build they used. I only saw two skills which were flesh golum and deathly swarm (the spike skill)

So if anyone knows the build to this, that would be great, thanks alot :grin:

Darjk aka Cloud
10-09-2006, 15:48
Hahahahahaha you guys must have faced us xD
we were playing that build for fun. worked quite nicely ^^

Vela
10-09-2006, 16:40
Its a gimmick build and it works. Be careful with corpse management.

Darjk aka Cloud
10-09-2006, 16:42
there are lots and lots of corpses (even the flesh gollems leave corpses) and at the same time you spike every 5 sec with deathly Swarm....

we did get defeated a few times, but that was mostly our own ignorance :)

Xunlai Agent
10-09-2006, 19:05
yeah we started that during 6 v 6 weekend. We ran Deathly Swarm and Bitter Chill....

Almas Darksoul
10-09-2006, 21:30
The build concept for Death Spike has been around for a long time - I remember running it with 5n 1rt 1r 1mo shortly before factions was released. I think 6v6 may have woken up the concept again, although I have seen it run one or two times before it.
The flesh golem is a new addition, and increases the pressure but at the cost of seriously decreasing the defensive capability when holding.

Either way, it's a fairly fun build, having played it once or twice myself.

Ion The Sudden
10-09-2006, 22:42
Me and a few good friends of mine "Reborned" the MF Spike or Agrias-Way as the creater of the build calles it. Nyways, they only sad part of the build is that we lose only to iway and vimway -_-. But most balance teams are pumbled. beat Euro Fretenity and got some nice commments after our victory. soz I cant give the whol;e build away :(. But if you wanna know more about it talk to "Wm Agrias":wink:

sahlakh
10-09-2006, 23:37
Yeah, I don't share builds either.

BTW, I invented minion factory.

slakt
10-09-2006, 23:55
The spike is pretty vurnable to interrupts, because of the long casting time of Deathly Swarm, but if it all hits, it's a lot of damage. I don't really get the point of the Flesh Golems though. Sure, they add some pressure, but I'd take monk elites over that any day. It's meant more as a fun build though I suppose, so I can dig it.

Oh, and I invented the Sever Artery + Gash combo. Whisper me in game for more info.

grimwold
11-09-2006, 00:05
Yeah i invented mending and healing breeze on wammos.

What ? I sound ridiculous ? now you know how you "invented" guys look.

Ectos N Shards
11-09-2006, 06:52
The build concept for Death Spike has been around for a long time - I remember running it with 5n 1rt 1r 1mo shortly before factions was released.
Mmm Hmm.

:undecided: h4x

Azrael STX
11-09-2006, 14:48
Maybe it was meant to read shortly 'after'? Lol.

tarutaru
11-09-2006, 16:51
Yep, you can thank Pat for this little gem.
Deathly swarm, bitter chill, flesh golem, rit spamming, monk protection, and rit weapons work nicely together, apparently.

Crazy *** builds ftw.

Patccmoi
11-09-2006, 17:45
Yep, you can thank Pat for this little gem.
Deathly swarm, bitter chill, flesh golem, rit spamming, monk protection, and rit weapons work nicely together, apparently.

Crazy *** builds ftw.

Hey, i never claimed i invented anything!

Flesh Golems actually have a very nice point in this build. Deathly Swarm spike alone takes too long to cast to really be sufficient pressure. Too easy to interrupt, and you're not really likely to score straight kills.

The point of Flesh Golems is that as soon as they start, you don't really have to pressure with your Deathly Swarm as much and can concentrate on healing more. 5-6 Flesh Golems is like having a bunch of warriors attacking, but people tend to ignore them a lot more (they won't blind Flesh Golems, etc.). Add that pressure to the pressure of Deathly Swarm, and you don't need 'spikes'. It's just killing pressure.

Darjk aka Cloud
11-09-2006, 18:06
the spikes arnt really spike so if you cant partisipate with it (you're healing or whatever) then its ok anyway. the golems do an ugly 90-100 a hit and trust me. that kills fast. the other team goes to defencive mode so that gives us more time to heal. the more that you attack the less they attack so the less you have to heal ^^

*EDIT*

i had it a few times that the first spike actually killed 3 guys xD

gg for that

Almas Darksoul
11-09-2006, 20:04
Bah, I meant 6n 1r 1mo before. Now I look stupid.

The spikes are VERY funny if they land perfectly. The biggest flaw with the build is probably in capping halls - Flesh Golems are stupid by nature and killing rangers is very hard due to their high armour, so it is rather easy for a hero to be perma interrupted by the third team.

bellissima
11-09-2006, 20:41
Bah, I meant 6n 1r 1mo before. Now I look stupid.
Well, Flesh Golem is a Factions-only elite, so it's still improbable that this was being run before Factions release. However I did come up against at least one team in HA running this kind of build in the early summer (a month or so *after* factions release).

The trouble is the prevalence of some sort of quick corpse consumption in HA (most builds can't afford to have a well of the profane going up on the altar). It worked great for the 6v6 weekend when corpse control wasn't that common though.

Almas Darksoul
11-09-2006, 22:03
I believe I sad that I ran it with Death Spike before factions, not death spike with flesh golems. It was semi-functional then, as well. Mainly it was a test to see if Vampiric Swarm spike would work in my eyes.

Corpse abuse is annoying, but it has slowly declined in popularity since the Tainted Necro in IWAY was removed - profane was less of a threat.

Xcutioner
11-09-2006, 22:57
Frozen Soil or Consume Corpse go a long way to completely shutting down these types of minion builds. Corpse control will slowly reduce the number of golems in play and after that it's a simple mop-up operation.

Did I ever mention I invented "Frozen Soil"? I did! :afro:

ZiegDivine
11-09-2006, 23:13
Frozen Soil or Consume Corpse go a long way to completely shutting down these types of minion builds. Corpse control will slowly reduce the number of golems in play and after that it's a simple mop-up operation.

Some groups have a saccer, so corpse control doesn't afftect them as much.

Azrael STX
12-09-2006, 02:10
Some groups have a saccer, so corpse control doesn't afftect them as much.
..you do know what Frozen Soil does, right?

Patccmoi
12-09-2006, 16:17
..you do know what Frozen Soil does, right?

Unless it's far out of range (in which case usually you can just move back a bit and rez), Frozen was always quite easy to take out when we played this. Just call it and throw Bitter Chill, doesn't require LoS and with 3-4 casting it it's gone.

I'm considering trying this again in 8v8 and replace Flesh Golem on one of the Necros with Psychic Distraction. This way if you face a Necro with Consume Corpse or Wells this guy can keep an eye on him and stop it right when it starts. CC is still .75 sec cast with boots, and since you have a very good idea of when the Necro will use it (right when something die) the interrupt shouldn't be that hard. It will also help a lot with the lack of interrupts on altar maps, and with 2 spirit spammer a N/Me with PD should have close to infinite energy to spam it.

Tyrus FTW
13-09-2006, 01:24
I went up against this build in a dual smite group, it was on the first alter map (I forget which one, please dont pwn me just because I invented noobs), i remember watching the moral chart and theirs was going lower and lower every few seconds. Once I got to the alter I saw too my horror at least 3 flesh golems already.

Basically they were annoying as hell, as the RC/Prot I, along with the other monks, where trying to keep away from them which meant our Infuser couldnt infuse spikes.

This build is pretty cool, pressure from Golems, spike dmg, decent healing and of course energy management isnt too bad with the saccers running BiP (as a guess) and of course a ranger and rit spirit spammer.

No thoughts on how to beat it yet, but it is past midnight and I have work in 6 hours :laugh:

Dallcingi
13-09-2006, 05:44
Yeah, I don't share builds either.

BTW, I invented minion factory.

So you work for Anet.... (read article on guildwiki saying a guy from Anet discovered minion factory)


..you do know what Frozen Soil does, right?

Ya but he sacs before the battle begins... so yeah.. he can be mezzed rezzed lol

Darjk aka Cloud
13-09-2006, 08:04
I went up against this build in a dual smite group, it was on the first alter map (I forget which one, please dont pwn me just because I invented noobs), i remember watching the moral chart and theirs was going lower and lower every few seconds. Once I got to the alter I saw too my horror at least 3 flesh golems already.

Basically they were annoying as hell, as the RC/Prot I, along with the other monks, where trying to keep away from them which meant our Infuser couldnt infuse spikes.

This build is pretty cool, pressure from Golems, spike dmg, decent healing and of course energy management isnt too bad with the saccers running BiP (as a guess) and of course a ranger and rit spirit spammer.

No thoughts on how to beat it yet, but it is past midnight and I have work in 6 hours :laugh:

there is a way to beat it, but its not easy. you could call it an fame farming build as it rapes all the none experienced teams by extreem pressure on the monks. With dual smite it should be easy to defeat this, but not many teams know how to do this right. they just go in and smite, thinking they pwn.

Wuzzman
13-09-2006, 12:01
Death Swarm the frozen soil. While you can be interupted your not as likely to be cry of fustarioned by a mesmer since you don't have to ball up also there is like 5 of you who are doing it soo. Oh and corpses control is little to none in hero ascent right now so.....

Would be interesting if nightfalls introduced anti corpses control or better make your own corpses!! They won't trigger soul reaping but they can be used to make minions with it would probably read like this

Decaying flesh: 15 energy 1sec 30recharge
description: You create a corpes at your location, doesn't trigger soul reaping, the corpses is gone in 6 seconds.

genius. If anet is reading this I hope anet doesn't make this AN ELITE!!!!!! probably will though....

Wuzzman
13-09-2006, 12:06
o and I beat this build. Basicly if you have any sort of pressure( I had a taint necro) the flesh golems will disappear. killing the necro's one by one with my thumpers was pretty cool to. O and my necro was running wells and had plenty of soul reaping coming in from all taht spirit spammer gg. O and there was no smiting in my build, and we only had a bless/light and a boon/prot double gg.

grimwold
13-09-2006, 16:42
odviously it depends on the people running the build and the people in the other team... you`ve as good as said tainted flesh beats this build, very misleading. spiking is easy, its the keeping people alive part inbetween thats the hard part.

i sometimes play in this build with other players that im very familiar with, we honestly havent lost a 1v1 fight with it outside of relic maps, but capping that alter at the end of it all is the stumbling block. still, its worth playing purely for how fast it wins matches, and to see how many iway / vim / whatever the hell is it these days, rage quit at the end of it.

Almas Darksoul
13-09-2006, 17:13
I would say the biggest counter to the build is Consume Corpse. By the time the fight begins, the first flesh golem is already on ~50% hp, and you can waste further time by kiting around. After that, you're left with a low-defense build with a semi-powerful spike.

A cry of frustration or 1-2 gas rangers will weaken this spike to a laughable point. I'm assuming tha Wuzzman's team had both of these traits.

Also, deathly swarming the frozen soil is quite a stupid idea imo... using 3 seconds of time on multiple characters to kill a spirit that can usually be easily wanded down.

Secondly, a 2mo backline build is extremely powerful against gimmick builds, presuming that the gimmick can be stopped once or twice by the shutdown on the other characters. Generally, against a spike build, 1-2 good monks and 6-7 good pressuring characters are far more useful than 3 mediocre monks.

Patccmoi
13-09-2006, 17:33
I wouldn't use a saccer with this, honestly. In games where we had corpse problem (for example against some pressure build like 2 rangers with NR/Tranq mass interrupting with degen, etc.) that tended to last a while with nobody dying and our pressure being clearly insufficient without golems, we just decided on one guy to never heal. We let him die and raise off him. No need to have a dedicated saccer, just decide to let someone die when required.

I made a 8v8 version of this build that i'll try to test soon, and if the rumored update is true i'll add Rising Bile too i think. Especially against teams like Vimway/IWAY, this should be laughable. Hex 4-5 of them at start, and after 30 sec with no hex removal they will all explode for 150 Area armor ignoring damage. If they're close to one another at all, they will all instantly die...

Wuzzman
14-09-2006, 00:26
well actually I just had 3 thumpers and I was playing e-den. I picked a N/mo and continued to spam shame and diverion on him..pretty funny to be honest.

Patccmoi
17-09-2006, 01:12
yuNa is running this in GvG and doing quite good with it lol.

5 Necros, 1 Rt spirit spammer, 2 Monks. Just mass Flesh Golems, Death spike, and push forward.