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Mickael
17-09-2006, 05:54
Heres a build I made for holding hall. I dunno if it would work im not an HoH expert (Im only R3, and ive iwayed some of it...).


Heres the build :

2X Elementalist/Monk

Energy Storage: 13 (12+1)
Air Magic: 16 (12+4)

Lightning Hammer (Air Magic)
Lightning Strike (Air Magic)
Blinding Flash (Air Magic)
Windborne Speed (Air Magic)
Aura of Restoration (Energy Storage)
Air Attunement (Air Magic)
Elemental Attunement [Elite] (Elementalist other)
Gale (Air Magic)


2X Elementalist/Monk

Energy Storage: 9 (8+1)
Air Magic: 16 (12+4)
Healing Prayers: 10

Lightning Hammer (Air Magic)
Lightning Strike (Air Magic)
Jamei's Gaze (Healing Prayers)
Heal Other (Healing Prayers)
Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
Ether Prodigy [Elite] (Energy Storage)
Resurrection Chant (Healing Prayers)
Glyph of Sacrifice (Elementalist other)


Elementalist/Monk

Energy Storage: 13 (12+1)
Earth Magic: 16 (12+4)

Obsidian Flame (Earth Magic)
Martyr [Elite] (Monk other)
Remove Hex (Monk other)
Holy Veil (Monk other)
Ward Against Elements (Earth Magic)
Ward of Stability (Earth Magic)
Ward Against Melee (Earth Magic)
Resurrection Signet ()


Ranger/Mesmer

Expertise: 9 (8+1)
Marksmanship: 14 (12+2)
Inspiration Magic: 10

Read the Wind (Marksmanship)
Savage Shot (Marksmanship)
Distracting Shot (Expertise)
Dodge (Expertise)
Revealed Hex (Inspiration Magic)
Inspired Hex (Inspiration Magic)
Expel Hexes [Elite] (Mesmer other)
Resurrection Signet ()


Necromancer/Ritualist

Soul Reaping: 11 (10+1)
Blood Magic: 16 (12+4)
Restoration Magic: 8

Shadow Strike (Blood Magic)
Lifebane Strike (Blood Magic)
Vampiric Gaze (Blood Magic)
Soul Feast (Death Magic)
Blood Ritual (Blood Magic)
Weapon of Warding (Restoration Magic)
Lively Was Naomei (Restoration Magic)
Resurrection Signet ()


Monk/Mesmer

Divine Favor: 14 (12+2)
Protection Prayers: 10 (9+1)
Inspiration Magic: 9

Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
Guardian (Protection Prayers)
Mend Condition (Protection Prayers)
Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
Mantra of Recall [Elite] (Inspiration Magic)
Contemplation of Purity (Divine Favor)
Divine Boon (Divine Favor)




Any suggestions? Think I can gain some fame with it?

mornd
17-09-2006, 06:55
Quick post as I got to run off so I can offer only what I perceived as weakness to the built and not enough time to sit down and offer solutions to you.

1. I am not an expert with air/rainbow spike builts but don't you think you should have something to remove enchantments esp protective spirit on a spiker instead. Depending on the Drain Enchantment on the team's only monk is risky as the monk is gonna be under a lot of pressure.

2. You do not have have any counters against spike. Against any spike opponent that has infuse lifer, you are going to lose the spike competitiion over the long run.. unless you are lucky enough to spike their infuser 1st.

3. Without frozen soil, it is hard for you to maintain spike team's advantage of superior numbers. If the team has a lot of rez sigs, the pressure damage may win your team over the long run.

4. Something not as critical but no corpse control e.g consume corpse makes well of profane kill your built/ghost when holding alters.

Mickael
17-09-2006, 07:25
1. Don't think its absolutly needed, They wont have prot spirit on the whole team so I can just spike some1 thats not enchanted. But I may be wrong, ill try to add some enchant removal if I have some problems against prot spirit:smiley:.


2. 2X Gale, savage shot and distrating shot are conters against spike. But Maybe I could add infuse health on the monk or a el/mo.


3. Thats so true! Ill take 1 inspire hex off the ranger to put frozen soil instead :smiley:.

4. I have soul feast on the necro ;).

Thx for the reply :smiley:

David Holtzman
17-09-2006, 09:40
A few notes:

1. Waiting for Lightning Hammer to recharge will take 15 seconds. That's far, far too slow for a spike. Get it down to a 7 second recycle and work from there.

2. Your air eles have no use of Aura of Restoration. Scrap it for something useful. Healing Seed would be a good use. Or enchant removal of some sort, probably drain.

3. Speaking of enchant removal, you're really gonna need it if you expect to kill anything.

4. Your earth ele is going to be totally useless. He doesn't have any energy management to power wards, let alone to deal with the exhaustion from Oflame. He needs a serious reworking.

5. You have way too many rez skills. If you're dying that much, you've already lost.

6. Your ranger could use a spike skill of some sort.

7. You necro has an awful lot of spike skills considering it's a 15second recycle. Shadowstrike recharges in 8, so I'm not quite sure why there's a copy.

the choseone
17-09-2006, 12:37
not a good spike build (not that im an expert).

you seem to wait long time between spikes
only 1 monk
aor is crap
not mich hex removal


try to solve this and it might work

Almas Darksoul
17-09-2006, 13:29
Unless you can keep a rapid spike rate up, the defense of your team will be rather weak. I would advise changing to LOrb on all the air eles, taking GoE and earth attunement on the Geo and changing one of the Attunement E/Mos into a prodigy one using extinguish+heal party or similar.

I'd also drop all the hard rezz skills and take more defense skills instead (as well as rez sig, ofc).

FarbrorVattenmelon
17-09-2006, 16:03
Gale is always useful

Mickael
17-09-2006, 16:07
David :

1. Stupid Gwfreak... Ive took the wrong skill. It is supposed to be Lorb not Lhammer ><. (To spike every 5 secondes, thats why I have 2X shadow strike...)

2. Cover enchant? Dual attunement is kinda fragile...

3. I remimber playing air spike in the good old days... we didnt had enchant removal and it was working... I know the metagame as change alot, but the only enchant removal worth removing is prot spirit imo. But I might take 2 drain enchant instead of aura of restoration.

4. Blood ritual, isp hex, revealed hex :/

5. 3 rez signet and 2 hard rez isnt that much imo, but ill remove glyph + res chant on 1 e/mo and take some enchant removal.

6. Penetrating shot? I dunno theres not alot of good spike skill for rangers... Waste of a slot imo.

7. See 1


the choseone :

1. See above

2. 1 monk + 2 heal party/heal other spammer + 2 Blinder + 1 warder + elite hex removal (and other hex removal) + elite condition removal + interupter + Blood ritual to keep up + some restoration on the necro... Is alot of protection, Blood spike usualy have 1 or 0 monks, but it still works realy good.

3. Was intend for cover enchant more than for the effect, but ill probably replace it for enchant removal.

4. remove hex + holy vail + 2X insp hex + expel hex (E) is alot of hex removal... alot more than team usualy takes...



Almas Darksoul :

1. See above :tongue:.
2. Whats GoE? :/
3. I alerdy have 2 prodigy el/mo that heal party and heal other... And no point to extinguish since I got martyr.
4. Ill drop one for enchant removal, but ill keep one.

FarbrorVattenmelon :
Thats why I have 2 eles with 13 energy storage and no exaustion skills to spam it ^^.


Thx for the replys aniway:smiley:

Ace Bear
17-09-2006, 18:59
3. I remimber playing air spike in the good old days... we didnt had enchant removal and it was working... I know the metagame as change alot, but the only enchant removal worth removing is prot spirit imo. But I might take 2 drain enchant instead of aura of restoration.
All that has to happen is Prot spirit then healing seed on the Ghost and gg, you can't even touch him. Even in the old days we had the Ghost, people just didn't play that well.

4. Blood ritual, isp hex, revealed hex :/
He has holy veil and remove hex. Maybe that was an error but that isn't going to give him energy. Also Blood ritual+ both of those hex removals still won't power everything he has. Btw, many teams that are using hexes such as Migraine will throw it on your Warder as the first target, so hex removal on him is kind of wasted(he will never get it off). Add glyph of Energy instead of Martyr.

To replace Martyr on the Ele replace Live Was Naomei on the Necro with Martyr.

Mickael
17-09-2006, 19:43
"All that has to happen is Prot spirit then healing seed on the Ghost and gg, you can't even touch him. Even in the old days we had the Ghost, people just didn't play that well."

Well, basic idea of the build was to cap before them... And if they cap, I can just spike the monks before no?


"He has holy veil and remove hex. Maybe that was an error but that isn't going to give him energy. Also Blood ritual+ both of those hex removals still won't power everything he has. Btw, many teams that are using hexes such as Migraine will throw it on your Warder as the first target, so hex removal on him is kind of wasted(he will never get it off). Add glyph of Energy instead of Martyr.

To replace Martyr on the Ele replace Live Was Naomei on the Necro with Martyr."


If he migraine the warder, my ranger will remove it (Hes the one with expel, isp and reavealed) I highly doubt they will trow a migraine on my ranger :tongue:.

Also I just realised my necro has no elites :/. Ill take Blood is power instead of blood ritual in that case. Then the warder wont have any energy problems :).

Almas Darksoul
17-09-2006, 20:44
It isn't wise to rely on another character for energy management within the team. If the necro gets pressured, shut down or similar, the ele will run dry quickly. GoE = glyph of energy.

David Holtzman
17-09-2006, 22:43
1. Stupid Gwfreak... Ive took the wrong skill. It is supposed to be Lorb not Lhammer ><. (To spike every 5 secondes, thats why I have 2X shadow strike...)

That's better at least.


2. Cover enchant? Dual attunement is kinda fragile...

If someone wants your enchants gone, they'll be gone. Want a useful cover enchant, take a chain Aegis.


3. I remimber playing air spike in the good old days...

Which has precisely what to do with today? When you're playing in "the good old days" you can play your way. When you play today, you play mine. If you want to win.


4. Blood ritual, isp hex, revealed hex :/

Blood rit isn't close to enough. It's only 1 energy per second more, it requires a touch and a sac, and does absolutely nothing for the exhaustion. The earth ele is trash. Rework him.

As to the hex removals, I think you confuse how those skills work. When your ranger removes one, your RANGER gets the energy, not the person he removes from.


6. Penetrating shot? I dunno theres not alot of good spike skill for rangers... Waste of a slot imo.

Sundering, Marauder both good choices.

Mickael
17-09-2006, 23:32
Well, heres the second version of it :smiley:.

Elementalist/Monk

Energy Storage: 13 (12+1)
Air Magic: 16 (12+4)

Lightning Orb (Air Magic)
Lightning Strike (Air Magic)
Blinding Flash (Air Magic)
Windborne Speed (Air Magic)
Holy Veil (Monk other)
Air Attunement (Air Magic)
Elemental Attunement [Elite] (Elementalist other)
Gale (Air Magic)


Elementalist/Monk

Energy Storage: 9 (8+1)
Air Magic: 16 (12+4)
Healing Prayers: 10

Lightning Orb (Air Magic)
Lightning Strike (Air Magic)
Extinguish (Protection Prayers)
Heal Other (Healing Prayers)
Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
Ether Prodigy [Elite] (Energy Storage)
Resurrection Chant (Healing Prayers)
Glyph of Sacrifice (Elementalist other)


Elementalist/Mesmer

Energy Storage: 11 (10+1)
Earth Magic: 16 (12+4)
Inspiration Magic: 8

Glyph of Energy [Elite] (Elementalist other)
Obsidian Flame (Earth Magic)
Drain Enchantment (Inspiration Magic)
Inspired Hex (Inspiration Magic)
Ward Against Foes (Earth Magic)
Ward of Stability (Earth Magic)
Ward Against Melee (Earth Magic)
Resurrection Signet ()


Ranger/Mesmer

Expertise: 9 (8+1)
Wilderness Survival: 8 (6+2)
Marksmanship: 13 (11+2)
Inspiration Magic: 10

Read the Wind (Marksmanship)
Savage Shot (Marksmanship)
Distracting Shot (Expertise)
Marauder's Shot (Marksmanship)
Dodge (Expertise)
Frozen Soil (Wilderness Survival)
Expel Hexes [Elite] (Mesmer other)
Resurrection Signet ()


Elementalist/Monk

Energy Storage: 13 (12+1)
Air Magic: 16 (12+4)

Lightning Orb (Air Magic)
Lightning Strike (Air Magic)
Blinding Flash (Air Magic)
Windborne Speed (Air Magic)
Holy Veil (Monk other)
Air Attunement (Air Magic)
Elemental Attunement [Elite] (Elementalist other)
Gale (Air Magic)


Elementalist/Monk

Energy Storage: 9 (8+1)
Air Magic: 16 (12+4)
Healing Prayers: 10

Lightning Orb (Air Magic)
Lightning Strike (Air Magic)
Holy Veil (Monk other)
Infuse Health (Healing Prayers)
Heal Other (Healing Prayers)
Heal Party (Healing Prayers)
Ether Prodigy [Elite] (Energy Storage)
Resurrection Signet ()


Necromancer/Ritualist

Soul Reaping: 11 (10+1)
Blood Magic: 16 (12+4)
Restoration Magic: 8

Shadow Strike (Blood Magic)
Lifebane Strike (Blood Magic)
Vampiric Gaze (Blood Magic)
Blood is Power [Elite] (Blood Magic)
Strip Enchantment (Blood Magic)
Well of Blood (Blood Magic)
Weapon of Warding (Restoration Magic)
Resurrection Signet ()


Monk/Mesmer

Divine Favor: 14 (12+2)
Protection Prayers: 10 (9+1)
Inspiration Magic: 9

Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
Guardian (Protection Prayers)
Mend Condition (Protection Prayers)
Protective Spirit (Protection Prayers)
Inspired Hex (Inspiration Magic)
Mantra of Recall [Elite] (Inspiration Magic)
Contemplation of Purity (Divine Favor)
Divine Boon (Divine Favor)

Almas Darksoul
17-09-2006, 23:59
My suggestions on this version:


Ward of Elements --> Ward Against Foes on earth ele. Not only does it help on relic runs (bodyblocking), but it is far more useful than +armor if your players know how to kite. The majority of damage eles in HA are close-range (Starburst or Shockwave), so Foes arguably defends more against elementalists than Melee ever will.
Jamei's Gaze-->Extinguish on E/Mo number 2. You lack condition removal now. Alternatively, take Martyr on the necro instead of Naomi, and swap BiP to BR.
On Char number 6, I hope you meant Ether Prodigy instead of Ether Renewal.

Mickael
18-09-2006, 00:29
Ive edit the last post taking ur suggestions into consideration. :smiley:

thx^^

defrule
18-09-2006, 03:08
I would drop one E/Mo for a pp/sd mesmer.

btw why have 7 spikers?

Mickael
18-09-2006, 03:27
PP+SD is way too slow for the spike... No way ill be able to spike every 7 seconds with pd+sd...

And im having 7 spiker to kill ppls :P.

Productivity
18-09-2006, 05:40
PP+SD is way too slow for the spike... No way ill be able to spike every 7 seconds with pd+sd...

And im having 7 spiker to kill ppls :P.

Mantra of recovery.

If you need seven spikers to kill something there's a serious issue.

Almas Darksoul
18-09-2006, 16:49
It is fair to assume in the current HA build trend that if you play spike, 1-2 of your spikers will be interrupted every single spike. Loads of teams carry PD mesmers, Gas rangers, Cry of Frustration Migrainers or Distracting Blow warriors.

This can either be countered by hoping to never run into interrupts (not very wise), making half your team interrupt immune (And they don't help at all against PD) or having a huge overspike, by taking more spikers than required.

It also means that if you have 1-2 crashers you can still spike and beat inexperienced teams.

Mesmers in these builds aren't useful for some reasons. Firstly, for PP/SD to EVER land against a team with a prot who is awake, you need to have cover hexes going around (parasitic bond on the necro). Even this won't work against experienced teams, who wilil find which hex is PP very rapidly and have a prot spirit on them before the rest of the spike can hit. Also, mesmers contribute very little to a team's defence - a ranger can interrupt, eles can heal or ward, but mesmers have restricted roles defensively at best. This is especially important when considering that nearly all of this team are both offensive and defensive.

Just another piece of advice too: consider dropping one point in air on the eles to gain 2 points in energy. You lose about 6 damage per spiker but gain 3-4 seconds on prodigy, increasing defensive potential.

opuis
18-09-2006, 17:15
Firstly, for PP/SD to EVER land against a team with a prot who is awake, you need to have cover hexes going around (parasitic bond on the necro). Even this won't work against experienced teams, who wilil find which hex is PP very rapidly and have a prot spirit on them before the rest of the spike can hit.

I hadnt ran into anyone using PP/SD in quite a while until the other night. Now granted, their spike was spot on (Spiking with Banish + other skills, not sure which), our infuser + prot was quick to know who was getting spiked. I was surprised they didnt have more hexes floating around to make us work.

I think rspike makes best use of PP/SD because a good rspike is hard to infuse.

Mickael
18-09-2006, 21:09
Almas got it all^^. As for dropping 1 in air, good idea:smiley:.

Wet One
18-09-2006, 21:31
1. Don't think its absolutly needed, They wont have prot spirit on the whole team so I can just spike some1 thats not enchanted. But I may be wrong, ill try to add some enchant removal if I have some problems against prot spirit:smiley:.


Thx for the reply :smiley:

I used to run rainbow in both HA and GvG for quite some time... and as an example we used to run 8-10 enchant removals for gvg... and i think 4-6 for HA.. Not only to remove the enchants, but also as e-managment...

Another thing you might consider is dropping bip for whail of doom, and then putting in a blood rit instead... i know from person experience that it works very well in shutting down warriors...

Also, imo... ele attune is not so great.. and you may need some more damage to knock out warriors on the first shot... so i would suggest mindshock on at least one ele.. and that ele has 2 enchant removals... if you do this you will most likely want bip not whail of doom, and that ele WILL be bip dependant for e managment... so on soft targets he would spike w/orb strike... for ranger/warrior he will hit with mindshock/strike and they will be toast.

because there are 2 techniques in spiking.. have enough defense to spike out monks while getting attacked... or...

spike out damage dealers with such a strong spike that they really no longer phase you and have less defense... I have found the second to be a better option.. and if you have a stronger spike you can always spike out soft targets easy... also the stronger your spike is you can still spike when 1 spiker is dead, which is a def. advantage in the long run


Also... i think 7 spikers is overkill.. if you rework the skills you can kill with 5 spikers no problem (i know from experience not just making a stab in the dark)

Aslo pp/SD is not too slow if you do mantra of recovery, burn, shatter enchant etc etc etc...

Mickael
18-09-2006, 21:56
Good idea on Wail of doom, ive alway wanted to try it in some gvg build but never has the occasion. Blood ritual should do the job fine.

For ele attunement, I play a TA blinder with dual attunement and it works rly well. Should be as good in ha imo. (cept there is more enchant removal)


Mind shock is a good idea, but I think I still prefer dual attunement. (Coz I rly want to try wail :tongue:).

For the 2 techniques : with the wards, 2X Blinder and now wail of doom. I was hoping to spike soft targets first and keeping warriors/thumpers for last.

I want to be the more defensive possible since I made the build for holding mostly. 2X Blinder(with cover) + Warder + wail of doom + interupters + gale spam + lot of hex removals + 2 heal party/heal other spammer + Infuse + Br powered monk + weapon of warding + extinguish should be rly good if I cap the altar somehow.


Edit in responce to ur edit : Well, the ranger isnt realy a spiker... I wanted to have one to conter ritual lord that spammed shelter all day long. Im thinking of replacing him for another monk... that would be amazing if we manage to cap the hall^^.