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Zingeri
22-09-2006, 22:01
Paragon Elite Analysys
-By Syria Blackblood

Paragons were hit with the nerf stick. Hard. Very Hard. Almost every crappy skill the Paragons had was made into an Elite!

Plus, the Duo Paragon build has been rendered near unusable. GG, ArenaNet. (However, ToF hasnít been nerfed. Weíll see.)

Anyways, letís get to the Elites.

(All were taken with Rank 12 in the Attribute)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon1.jpg

Slightly different than the PvP Beta one. If you have 12 Command, it has a better effect than the previous. If you donít have 12 command, it has a worse effect. Meh. Still a bit too situational, though.

Rating: 3/5

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon2.jpg

Was normal, but made into Elite. Itís cheap, but saying itís too situational is an understatement.

Rating: 2/5

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon3.jpg

Was normal, but made into Elite. This is a tad better, since the duration of Crippling is pretty nice.

Rating: 3/5

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon4.jpg

Phew. I was hoping that atleast this skill wasnít nerfed. Fortunally, it was buffed.

Energy cost is now 5e instead of 10e and recharge is now 5r instead of 10r. Thatís pretty damn good. But itís in Leadership now, which is so-so.

Rating: 5/5

Zingeri
22-09-2006, 22:01
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon5.jpg

Was made into Elite, but they also gave it a slight nerf. (15r instead of 10r). However, atleast itís compatable with Paragons.

Rating: 3/5

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon6.jpg

Itís worse than Aegis, and it was made into Elite? What the heck?

Rating: 2/5

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon7.jpg

Apparently ArenaNet is pushing Spear Mastery here. This skill, admittingly, is pretty sweet, since Paragon Spear Mastery skills cost way too much. Leadership requirement is a pain, but atleast it wonít be abused by Warriors. Combined with an IAS, things will die. (A new Paragon skill, Aggresive Refrain, was added, which is a constant IAS. I'm not joking.)

Rating: 4/5

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon8.jpg

See above. Itíll be a tough choice between the two elite. Focused Anger is for high-adrenal builds, and Soldierís Fury is for low-adrenal builds. Still, Flurry would be a better IAS for Paragons.

Rating: 3/5

Zingeri
22-09-2006, 22:02
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon9.jpg

1 second Recharge. Case closed. Although I could see some builds with 0 Motivation use this along with Plague Sending…

Rating: 3/5

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon10.jpg

-10 Degen?! I can’t even think of a way to recover from that!

Rating: 1/5

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon11.jpg

Was made into an Elite. Low Adrenal Chants never hurt, although I’d prefer a more efficient removal. However, this is near virtual immunity from Conditions, since it can be spammed so easily.

Rating: 4/5

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon12.jpg

Was made into Elite. It’s just average, really.

Rating: 3/5

Zingeri
22-09-2006, 22:02
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon13.jpg

Was made into Elite. This is basically a Ranged Eviscerate. No complaints there.

Rating: 3/5

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon14.jpg

10a? Why does this skill remind me of Skull Crack?

Rating: 2/5

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon15.jpg

I believe the recharge was reduced from 20r to 15r. Still, nothing bad.

Rating: 3/5

Izzy got lazy. He should have added new elites, not make old ones slightly better. Now the Paragon is a significantly weaker class than I had hoped. Iím not pleased.

However, Spear Mastery was buffed up the wazoo.

(Atleast Necromancers got incredible skillsÖ)

Khaunshar
22-09-2006, 23:59
Actually, Incoming is easily 4/5 in pvp.

You do realize it basically shuts down spikes if the paragon in question is skilled?

Akirai Annuvil
23-09-2006, 00:52
Actually I'd switch around the The Power is Yours rating with Defensive Anthem. I find that The Power of Yours at least gives you some specialized use as a party energy battery, situationally better than Blood Ritual.
Defensive Anthem like you said is beaten by plain Aegis :/ Why would anyone take that one...

And who's izzy? The ultimate balancing dude?

critical vengeance
23-09-2006, 03:31
actually i'm fairly mad too, i was thinking when i first saw new dervish elites " hmm i wonder what the paragon got" Really it got it's skills just turned into elites ! meh... i was planning on using some of those too. The power is yours i thought might have -2 or 4 energy degen... but 10?!

arredondo
23-09-2006, 09:55
Aegis is an enchant and is easier to remove than chants like Defensive Anthem. DA also recharges 5s faster and is twice as fast in casting than Aegis, which can be interrupted by Mesmer spell stoppers - a 1s chant is tougher to interrupt. Aegis has more range, but earshot is still good.

BunnyLord
23-09-2006, 13:40
Incoming:
- Hmm, 4 seconds is way too short and the recharge is way too long.

Anthem of Guidnace:
- You can use this without any points in command? Good if you're a ranger or a paragon but not a perfect choice for melee.

Crippling Anthem:
- As if schyte skills and wind prayers are not enough, we get more crippling. Maybe we should add a wheel chain in the game.

Angelic Bond:
- non-maintanable non-enchantment non-removable SKILL. Good for protecting one target not like life bond which lowers damage directed to you. Cheap cost with fast recharge makes it spammable but ofcourse spamming it makes it deadlier to you.

Anthem of Fury:
- Another paragon/warrior buffer. Its nice considering that it's only 5 energy and the recharge is not really not high.

Defensive Anthem:
- Yup I agree with you there. If it's not elite if wont be that bad. The cost can be reduced by Leadership however you have to be close to you're allies unlike Aegis. It can't be removed though and recharge 5 sec faster.

Focused Anger:
- Not as good as for great justice before since it's always 100% more adrenaline. However it has a long duration pretty much like Ele attunements.

Soldier's Fury:
- watch yourself will be your friend.

It's just a flesh wound:
- Deep wound duration is neglible. It can be removed quickly in high-end PvP and not that threatening in PvE. Considering that this is shout meaning no cast and with 1 rech this is a good skill.

The Power is Yours:
- I'm disappointed with Captain Planet. The degeneration is worse than Spirit Channeling's -5 HP degen (not energy but hp). It's probably for Adrenaline Heavy builds that lets you gain energy from cheap skills like WYS.

Song of Purification:
- more condition removal is better. There's way too many conditions inflicting skills popping out. Burning, Cripple and Bleeding are getting too popular and we need more skills to balance them.

Song of Restoration:
- hmm, 5 energy for mediocore healing is fair. You just need to use a skill, so if you're a mesmer with ether feast you need to find someone to drain.

Cruel Spear:
- it will take paragons longer to build their adrenaline with Spears + you need a stationary target.

Stunning Strike:
- it's not that bad. 10adrenaline is pretty high but the only condition is to have a condition. Barbed Spear is all you need to trigger and cover it after. Damage is mediocre, atleast it has one.

Cautery Signet:
- The burning can be removed quickly. This skill is free with a not so long recharge.

Overall they just slightly improved the skills. Nothing too special.

Sorale
24-09-2006, 02:46
Angelic Bond isn't too good, actually--There's no damag reduction, so you're actually giving your monk more to do. I can't see this skill being useful--you've got to spread the monk's energy out even more using this one.

Malchiel
24-09-2006, 03:05
Angelic Bond isn't too good, actually--There's no damag reduction, so you're actually giving your monk more to do. I can't see this skill being useful--you've got to spread the monk's energy out even more using this one.

The purpose isn't to make healing more cost effective, the purpose is to foil spike by dividing the dmg.

MaximumSquid
24-09-2006, 03:21
For "The Power is Yours!" just swap weapons. . . This way the -10 degen won't affect you.

----------

Nice post btw :grin:

LagunaCid
24-09-2006, 03:29
For "The Power is Yours!" just swap weapons. . . This way the -10 degen won't affect you.huh?

0123456

Uriah_Heep
24-09-2006, 05:04
It will still affect you big time. I don't get it. You provide energy enough for Orison or Flare at the cost of making yourself useless???

Rampageoh
24-09-2006, 18:33
I chose Paragon as a secondary class this weekend. It worked well but I am a little disappointed that a couple of skill that would have helped my build were made Elites and moved to the Leadership branch. Oh well, just have to try a couple more alternatives.

critical vengeance
24-09-2006, 20:00
i still think the power is yours has got to be one of the most terrible things... it doesn't even give a lot of energy. If it gave an insane amoutn like 20 i could see the total utterly lose of all energy, but really i doubt anyone will use it.

Robot Stalin
24-09-2006, 21:38
"The power is yours!" is a joke. Even "Never give up!" beats it, and that's not even elite.

Goldfish God
24-09-2006, 22:54
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon14.jpg

10a? Why does this skill remind me of Skull Crack?

Skull Crack requires an interrupt, this only requires a condition. Haven't checked it this time, but during the PvP event if u applied a condition in the same hit (i.e. apply poison, various anthems etc) you would meet the Dazing requirement. Much easier to apply than Skull Crack, plus additional damage, plus range.

"The power is yours" only screws u energy-wise, luckily you have adrenaline skills also.

Uriah_Heep
25-09-2006, 16:32
"The power is yours" only screws u energy-wise, luckily you have adrenaline skills also.

Good point but the effect of it is a joke. 7 energy? I am sure the ele on my team will hugely appreciate that extra Flare.

NobleNick
25-09-2006, 21:55
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/Zinger314/paragon10.jpg

-10 Degen?! I canít even think of a way to recover from that!

Rating: 1/5


Nice posts, Zingeri!

I think I want to take a slightly different position on this skill than you (and virtually everyone else after you who commented on the subject).

First off what does this -10 degen for 10 seconds do? It essentially wipes out all your energy and keeps it wiped out for 10 seconds. Then you have to rebuild energy for at least 3 seconds before you can do anything. If you had any energy left after it was cast, then you might have 10 energy, 19 seconds after the cast. So this spell shuts you down cold on energy for at least 13 to 19 seconds (depending on whether your first cast costs 5 or 10 energy. Plus you lose all energy you had, as if casting Ether Lord or Rebirth.

That is the downside. And it is a big downside; no question on that. You are like an energyless warrior for 13 to 19 seconds. Assuming you had 15 energy when you cast this spell, it cost you 10 for the cast + 5 energy lost through degen + ABOUT 4/3 x 10 = 10 + 5 + 13 = 28 energy lost

Now the upside:

In a party of 8 (and assuming everyone is at least 7 energy down from max) you generated 7 x 7 = 49 energy for the party. 49 - 28 = 21 energy generated over 20 seconds. At the end of this 20 seconds, you would have enough energy to throw "The Power is Yours!" ('TPiY' for short), again if you chose to do so.

Let's compare with a few other energy management elites:

Mantra of Recall, a highly respected elite, generates 24 - 10 = 14 energy over 20 seconds.

Peace and Harmony, another elite which is respected more by some than by others, generates 1 extra pip of energy = 30 energy in 90 seconds (+20% enchantment length) - 5 energy to cast = 25 energy in 90 seconds = just under 7 energy per 20 seconds PER player upon which it is cast. *IF* a team has 2 non-smiting monks, then this elite is worth about 13 energy per 20 seconds for the team.

So, TPiY differs from other common energy elites in that, for a party of eight:

MoR nets 14 energy over 20 seconds, spread out over one player.
P&H nets 13 energy over 20 seconds, spread out over two players.
TPiY nets 21 energy over 20 seconds, spread out over eight players.

Remember this is net for the team. In the last case, one player sees -28 while the rest of the team sees 49 energy every 20 seconds. This is almost exactly 49/21 = 7 pips, spread out over the 7 non-Paragon players.

Another way of looking at this is that the Paragon can dedicate his energy management TOTALLY to the rest of the team, and use his adrenaline skills to simultaneusly fight like a "ranger-lite." In this "sacrificial" mode, the Paragon's (energy regen - spell cost) averages about zero over the cycle, while every other member of the party gets an extra 7 energy per 20 seconds, which is the equivalent of 1 pip, which is the equivalent of EVERY OTHER PLAYER HAVING A NO-HASSLE, FREE SECOND ELITE (PEACE & HARMONY) RUNNING IN THE BACKGROUND. That would be the equivalent of SEVEN free P&Hs!! And I can tell you that running P&H **DOES** make a difference.

If Two Paragons were to team up, both running TPiY, they could alternate cycles, with second one casting TPiY just as the degen from the first Paragon's TPiY ran out. Six members of the team would get the equivalent of +2 pips energy regen. The Paragons would each get 10 seconds or so of +1pip regen in each 21 second cycle; so could throw one 5-to-10energy cast every 21 seconds (in addition to TPiY).

The two Paragons collectively would do at least the same amount of damage as a single warrior. So this would be the DPS equivalent of a 7-man party, with 6 of them having awesome energy regen. With good teamwork this would be a very mean machine.

On the other hand, if you cast this when you have 30 energy, and everyone else is maxed out, then uses 10 + 20 + (8 x 4/3) = about 41 energy, you are useless (energywise) for 11 to 17 seconds, and the net energy gain to the party is -41 :shocked:

If the energy degen was -8 for 8 seconds, you would still have people who wouldn't be able to make this skill pay off, and yet anet would have to nerf it, because some teams would be capable of the coordination needed to abuse it.

So in summary, TPiY is potentially a very valuable elite; but it takes high coordination and a "team mentality" to extract the potential benefit.

NeferJackal
25-09-2006, 22:20
Hmm, the Paragon elites seems decent. But I dont see anything that just screams it is a must have. Like Reaper's Mark for necromancers.

Geishe
26-09-2006, 01:18
Hmm, the Paragon elites seems decent. But I dont see anything that just screams it is a must have. Like Reaper's Mark for necromancers.

Angelic Bond! Me love it, very love it. Its possibly the skill Im most excited to unlock after release.

P.S Necro's ALWAYS seem to have great elites >.>

Artemis Shadowhawk
26-09-2006, 01:41
I have a question concerning Angelic Bond. Is the damage diverted and then it takes armor into account? Or do you just receive half of what target ally receives.

i.e. you'll be taking more damage if your armor isnt factored in for your character while protecting a monk.

Ramza
26-09-2006, 14:15
Seems like only one person spotted the absolute awesomeness of "The power is Yours". Good job NobleNick.

Run that with an adrenaline heavy build and you are giving your whole team bonus energy, can't get much better than that.

Just like many other skills in this game, it needs a particular playing style. That doesn't make it a 1/5 rating, more like 3/5.

Geishe
26-09-2006, 15:14
I have a question concerning Angelic Bond. Is the damage diverted and then it takes armor into account? Or do you just receive half of what target ally receives.

i.e. you'll be taking more damage if your armor isnt factored in for your character while protecting a monk.

I havent really test it, and wont be able to till release... but I think you just get half the damage of what your protectee's recieves... not counting armor. Mending Refrain + xxxxx of Restoration line will easily bring your health back up. Leader's comfort will also be great with a big team, or high leadership.

Fownkaymownkay
26-09-2006, 16:50
Good news: My necro will officially rock the shiznit out of NF.

Bad news: My paragon might not be able to play as a healer as well as before. :sad:

Artemis Shadowhawk
26-09-2006, 21:16
I don't know why but I just like the idea of Angelic Bond and Signet of Synergy. It seems like it fits so well.

NeferJackal
01-10-2006, 01:08
I think Soldier's Fury isn't getting the respect it deserves.

Soldier's Fury 5r 1c 5r Elite Leadership Echo
For 10...30 seconds, if you are under the effect of a Chant or Shout, you attack 33% faster.

Several things to note:

Duration:
At high levels of Leadership it will have a huge duration beyond the recharge and being super cheap to cast. Many of the other IAS skills cannot be maintained indefinitely, having a recharge much longer than their duration, or even have a condition to end prematurely.

IAS:
It produces max IAS of 33% with absolutely NO nasty drawback! Flurry severely amputates your damage and Frenzy makes you quite vulnerable.

Condition:
The only condition here is that you have to have a shout or chant effecting you to benefit from the increased IAS. Though since chants tend to vanish when they proc their effect, you need to rely on shouts with a long duration to have a consistent gain from Soldier's Fury. An energy chant would be of preference, since you can call on immediately when needed to power Soldier's Fury, instead of having to charge up an adreline shout.

They're on Fire will fit the bill, lasting 20 seconds on your entire party and having a recharge of 20 seconds. With high leadership you can reduce the cost of Theyre on Fire quite considerably.

So now we have consistent IAS and a shout to power it, then I will suggest throwing in Blazing Spear and Anthem of Flame to benefit from Theyre on Fire.
If you can handle it managing it, use Burning Refrain as well on your party.