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melandrus elite
27-09-2006, 04:18
soo heres how it goes:
5 e/me:
16water
13(+2)e-storage
6inspiration
skills:
water attunement
Ele attunement{E}
Vapor Blade
Ice Spear
leech sig
ether feast
drain enchant(needned to keep damage not at half)
res sig

1boon prot(with leech sig not contemplation)

1woh/HP(with leech sig can replace any skill but woh)

1Rt/r spirit spammer with fs

108x5=540+335=67x5
>>>>>>>875<<<<<<<(1 kill)

Any suggestions or comments? post away if so

nightrunner
27-09-2006, 07:32
The first thing I thought of when I saw the title was Te. XD

Darknicrofia
27-09-2006, 07:42
the only thing this build can do is spike, it has 0 defense, no wards, not alot of condition removal and the energy managment is quesionable at best considering how NR > enchants, imo, u can farm a few groups with its spiking power, but even that is not alot, most rainbow spikes deal as much damage with WAY more versatilty such as PD, wards, chain aegis, interrupter.

and btw, any ele spike that REQUIRES an afterspike of 1 second cast will be guaranteed to fail against half decent infusors. not to mention you need line of sight for ice spear and you have no gale in the build

ZiegDivine
27-09-2006, 14:33
Half of boon's power comes from CoP and the survivability it gives the build. Please either put it in or don't run a boon prot. Part of the reason you have a WoH in an HA build is to heal the infuser right after an infuse. If you won't have an infuser there are better alternatives to the WoH monk (like ... sb/infuse).


soo heres how it goes:
5 e/me:
16water
13(+2)e-storage
6inspiration
skills:
water attunement
Ele attunement{E}
Vapor Blade
Ice Spear
leech sig
ether feast
drain enchant(needned to keep damage not at half)
res sig

1boon prot(with leech sig not contemplation)

1woh/HP(with leech sig can replace any skill but woh)

1Rt/r spirit spammer with fs

NR will shut down your entire build. Everybody but the WoH depends on enchantments, and NR is fairly common in HA atm (a lot of balanced builds run it, not to mention the hordes of VIMWAY and IWAY). Ether feast on the eles is a 3 second cast, which is just begging to get interrupted by any half-decent ranger. The whole point of a water ele is utility (mass slow down hexes along with decent damage) and if you're not going to be utilizing it, you're better off having an air spike (although that's also not so great anymore due to the immergence of cg rangers).

Parker Bsb
27-09-2006, 14:37
except this is HA :wink:

Here's my comments:

1) nevermind I'm on crack - 7 leech sigs not 2

2) The spike seems like a lot of damage, but it's realistically - 2 spikers because you'll want tto ensure PS is drained before the spike hits (2 drains is enough usually)

3) No defence = GG vs most pressure builds

4) Just noticed Major and Sup rune on each spiker = too much health lost you really need to rethink the defence and health levels. Even if you spiked/killed 1 member every 10 secodns (counting cast time that's fair) you will die before they run out of ressigs.

ZiegDivine
27-09-2006, 14:40
except this is HA :wink:

Here's my comments:

1) You need more than 2 leech sigs to interrupt a ghostly capping,

Yea, it's 7:30 am, I saw that after my post :embarassed:

There are 7 leech sigs in the build, every ele has one.

David Holtzman
27-09-2006, 21:58
Half of boon's power comes from CoP and the survivability it gives the build. Please either put it in or don't run a boon prot.

Meh, CoP isn't that useful. We certainly haven't been running it, and we do quite well.


Part of the reason you have a WoH in an HA build is to heal the infuser right after an infuse. If you won't have an infuser there are better alternatives to the WoH monk (like ... sb/infuse).

No way, SB/Infuse monks are utter trash. Word/Party is by far a better choice in terms of use and healing output.

ZiegDivine
27-09-2006, 22:22
Meh, CoP isn't that useful. We certainly haven't been running it, and we do quite well.

In a spike team you're much better off running CoP then not. I'm sure iA has some team build that makes up for the lack of it, but in a 1v1 situation, you're better off using CoP.

Almas Darksoul
27-09-2006, 22:24
WoH/HP is certainly better than SB/Inf in terms of keeping a group alive, but it is still important to ensure that you have a copy of infuse in the party. This is important for dealing with necrospikes, where a Heal Other often isn't enough due to afterspike.

The WoH bar needs to be slightly modified to run it in a 2mo backline.

Also, with a rit and only two monks, why not run an RC Infuse and a WoH/HP?

B Ephekt
27-09-2006, 23:30
In a spike team you're much better off running CoP then not. I'm sure iA has some team build that makes up for the lack of it, but in a 1v1 situation, you're better off using CoP.
CoP is **** in tombs, and so are boon prots. And no decent GvG guild runs CoP anymore since Migraine hasn't been in the meta for quite some time. The only place I would consider CoP still viable is in RA (and even then I prefer Energy Drain over MoR).


Even though I doubt it will help this build in it's current state, your backline would be better off with a WoH/HP and a healing-specced RC/Infuse since you already have protection from the rit spirits. Something to consider about your rit, though, is that you're going to have to run EW for Shelter to even be worth taking.

You would probably be better of running a Marauder's/Savage/Oath ranger in place of one of the Eles, and then running a normal 3 monk backline.

melandrus elite
27-09-2006, 23:56
Leech sig=oop stopper. Plus I think mabye I can switch the elite of 1 spiker to ward against harm. and you guys take NR and tranq so seriously when two ice spear would kill either of them. and the build does have good spike power problem is that I can't figure out how i could run wards with this build.

btw my guild tried this build we got 2 consec(against starburst and obsidian flame) and then lost to any IWAY because the oop and ooa continually spammed enchants.

Also the reson I run a rit lord is that unless 1 monk went Mo/R no fs and then you would critisize me on that.

nightrunner
28-09-2006, 00:37
It's quite possible to get 2 consec with 8 Paladin Prebuilts.

Wondering why you think SB/Infuse is trash, David. They obviously come nowhere near the healing capability of a WoH, and if you only have room for one of them, the WoH is the better choice. But don't you think that their help vs things like PD on the altar, and having a dedicated infuser makes them worth bringing?

And I don't really think CoP is really great, any more. The increased recharge on Boon hurt it a lot. CoP is still viable, but not really a necessity any more IMO.

B Ephekt
28-09-2006, 00:42
2 Consecutive? Henchway gets 2 consec, so I'm not sure what you mean to say by that.



Also the reson I run a rit lord is that unless 1 monk went Mo/R no fs and then you would critisize me on that.
Did you not read the last bit of my post?

If you don't like the ranger idea, you could dedicate 1 or 2 eles to E/R for frozen and drop the rit completely. You don't really need that many copies of Leech Sig, especially if you can't hold once you cap (due to lack of defense). And a Rit Lord that can't keep up shelter is pretty much a waste of a party slot.

Or you could run a N/Mo prot with BiP for the Rit and eles, drop the attunements to open up the elite slots on your spikers and be able to run a Woh and SB/Infuse backline.

David Holtzman
28-09-2006, 02:45
In a spike team you're much better off running CoP then not.

Not really. Hex removal is better because you can use it to remove hexes that stop spikers and condition removal for the same reason. CoP is good for splitting and 1man monking, but not really otherwise.

************************************************** ********


Wondering why you think SB/Infuse is trash, David. They obviously come nowhere near the healing capability of a WoH, and if you only have room for one of them, the WoH is the better choice. But don't you think that their help vs things like PD on the altar, and having a dedicated infuser makes them worth bringing?

Not really. I'd drop it in a second for some offense, and in fact have. If PD is an issue take a humility on your offense, or get a decent hammer warrior or interrupt ranger. Just edeny the PD mesmer.

melandrus elite
28-09-2006, 04:15
I didn't mean that the only reason i kept the rit was for fs, that is hte only reason he is rt/r he is the prot of the team and helps us alot.

Btw also won in HoH today twice with the build to bad when an oop and an ooa completely spams it's impossiblr for use to win. I did get a req 10 15stance gladius though:)

Darknicrofia
28-09-2006, 06:11
bottom line is, this build has alot less versatility and defense than most if not all other spike builds, and quite frankly, even though u claimed to have won halls with it, i still do not believe it is a viable build to run.

melandrus elite
30-09-2006, 16:45
4 e/me:
16water
13(+2)e-storage
6inspiration
skills:
water attunement
Ele attunement{E}
Vapor Blade
Ice Spear
leech sig
ether feast
drain enchant(needned to keep damage not at half)
res sig

1 e/r:
16water
13(+2)e-storage
6inspiration
skills:
water attunement
ward against harm{E}
Vapor Blade
Ice Spear
winter
fs
res sig

1boon prot(with leech sig not contemplation)

1woh/HP(with leech sig can replace any skill but woh)

1tainted warder who spikes deathly swarm with the eles

with all hydromancer aromor the warder and winter it'll be much more versatile.(plus i won halls on a tuesday so there weren't that many good teams other than 1 bspike and 1 good VIMWAY)

Darknicrofia
30-09-2006, 21:47
i don't think you fully understand what the word versatility means.

winter makes you have more defense sure, but it can be killed easilly, plus, you have no anti hex, not alot of anti condition, ball up in wards much? choking gas will take care of that.

versitilitymeans you can handle all sorts of situations, yours cant.

melandrus elite
01-10-2006, 08:01
wow i mean so many builds run choking gas ill name them 1balance 2bspike o nvm ok done

ZiegDivine
01-10-2006, 09:20
wow i mean so many builds run choking gas ill name them 1balance 2bspike o nvm ok done

bspike doesn't run cg rangers. the point isn't how many different builds run cg rangers, rather how many teams run cg rangers. the answer is "a lot" (more then half of HA groups probably).

Darknicrofia
01-10-2006, 21:44
if your build cannot counter something as simple as cg rangers, i don't believe it is a viable spike build, blood spike can spread out, mixed spike can as well, ranger spike dont get affected, however, if you move out of your wards, you are easy targeting for everything, hell, even ranger spike takes a bonder, your build is nothing BUT soft targets, if you ball up against cg, you lose, if you move out of wards, you lose.

thats just the way it will be against half decent teams.

melandrus elite
02-10-2006, 03:27
if your build cannot counter something as simple as cg rangers, i don't believe it is a viable spike build, blood spike can spread out, mixed spike can as well, ranger spike dont get affected, however, if you move out of your wards, you are easy targeting for everything, hell, even ranger spike takes a bonder, your build is nothing BUT soft targets, if you ball up against cg, you lose, if you move out of wards, you lose.

thats just the way it will be against half decent teams.

I have no clue what yoyu are saying if you really want to play an interupt go migraine, plus i never said i coundn't spread out because you sound like you can only stick with the original design. i mean next time you try to criticize me then don't forget to think outside the box. This is NOT RA it's ok to run and spike and with a running on vapor blade i'd like to see a cg even try to interupt without being utterly owned by the spike.

B Ephekt
02-10-2006, 17:49
Were you running this last night?

Almas Darksoul
02-10-2006, 18:05
I have no clue what yoyu are saying if you really want to play an interupt go migraine, plus i never said i coundn't spread out because you sound like you can only stick with the original design. i mean next time you try to criticize me then don't forget to think outside the box. This is NOT RA it's ok to run and spike and with a running on vapor blade i'd like to see a cg even try to interupt without being utterly owned by the spike.

In most instances, Migraine pales in comparison to a CG ranger (the main exception being pure hex builds) as it is easily preventable, easily removable, and requires considerably more skill on the user's part.

Rangers have 100 armor against elements. You can't spike down the rangers like Geospikes, monkspikes or necrospikes would. Not to mention they can still interrupt you if you move... they just follow you. The current spike relies on all spikers landing their skills for the spike to be sucessful againts a non-dp'd target, meaning that a choking gas ranger will own you regardless.

As Nicrofia said... You either ball in the wards, maybe surviving but having no spike, or you leave the wards, dying more and having no spike.

melandrus elite
03-10-2006, 00:46
Were you running this last night?

I have run this build 3 times got 2consec first time on the 26th won halls for america second time on a tuesday forget when and then I did it in a gvg and won(too bad we faced henchway with a lvl 16 in it).

Darknicrofia
03-10-2006, 07:42
any spike build can WIN halls, yours cant hold against a half decent team.

however, there are better spike builds out there to be ran, almost every spike build in fact, compared to this one.

and no, cg rangers do not get "owned" by vapor blade. unless the prot monk is horrible and that your spike is perfect, 2-3 of those vapor blades will get protted through and your after spike will be caught by infuse.

I don't know what sort of teams you manage to beat with it, but it sure doesnt sound like any decent team i know of.

slit greenleaf
06-10-2006, 05:21
this build has no defense....
but it does have healers..
and it definatly has damage..
lastly with all this damage if this is moddified could make a great NEW HoH 6v6 spike..

you could take out the rit stick in a warder and ball up inside the wards or almost anything else...you could take this build in so many directions.

about draks comment on the cg...875-100=775-80=695=death to a cg...

~slit~

Wuzzman
10-10-2006, 23:43
curent meta game? Little enchantment, less spirits, and weaker defense and even much less offense( 2 monks heal better now I think..but ultimately you can't cram that much defense into the build anymore in 6v6 without sacrificing seriouse damage)...so basicly...this is runnable. AND WARDS ARE NOT GREAT DEFENSE FOR HERO ASCENT....spikers, aoe spikers, trappers, duel smitters....

melandrus elite
12-10-2006, 02:51
well anyways 6v6 ruined most all spikes including this one. so now ive dicided to run 2 shove sin dualsmite and fame farm till r6.

ZiegDivine
12-10-2006, 18:11
well anyways 6v6 ruined most all spikes including this one. so now ive dicided to run 2 shove sin dualsmite and fame farm till r6.

What's going to happen when (if) you hit r6? All of a sudden you'll be good?

melandrus elite
14-10-2006, 01:02
at r6 i'll start playing guild HA for halls drops or sell account on ebay if you really need to know.

ZiegDivine
14-10-2006, 19:57
Why not just play HA for hall drops now?

melandrus elite
15-10-2006, 03:01
because...well i got this grest feeling right after my r3 emote and im looking for that same thing again. Any ways i only need 42 more fame about 1 or 2 days worth.

David Holtzman
15-10-2006, 04:29
Why not just play HA for hall drops now?

Because that's a really stupid reason to spend time on something. If I want gold I'll go get a job and ebay what I need, I won't spend 4 hours plugging away at HA to maybe get myself an 8.5k sigil.

ZiegDivine
15-10-2006, 08:42
It's actually 9k, I sold a few today :wink:

scamPOR
22-10-2006, 06:43
you won't sell a rank 6 account for much... not with the volume of 9+'s for sale. You'd need a ton of pve to make up for so little fame.

melandrus elite
25-10-2006, 05:02
you won't sell a rank 6 account for much... not with the volume of 9+'s for sale. You'd need a ton of pve to make up for so little fame.
95% explorer-yes
favored(r3 lucky)-yes
all missions beaten and canthan protecter-yes
all pvp mods runes adn skills unlocked-yes
champion-yes
survivor-no:sad:
and a few more titles i can't think of