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Tucks
06-10-2006, 10:05
Removed Burial Mounds from rotation.
Raised the team count for Broken Tower to 3.
Reduced the play time for Broken Tower to 4 minutes.
Reduced the play time for Courtyard to 4 minutes.
Added levers to Scarred Earth so that players can open gates leading out of the center region of the map. Gates still open automatically as teams are defeated.


Well, Anet seems to want ganks to come back into fashion again, and needlessly removed a good 1v1 priest map.

They made broken tower 3 man - something that people will most probably hate as its always been that people hate courtyard because there is so much luck involved.


Scarred earth is now going to be a gankfest because teams can get access to the other team straight away after beating one. Now the better team will get ganked like the old days.

I opposed the change to 6v6, but i decided that if its going to happen i would just try to grin and bear it, but this is ridiculous. I don't know what Anet was thinking.

ccrazool
06-10-2006, 10:29
It's interesting that the official game update page doesn't mention:

*Reduced the size of Hero's Ascent parties to 6.

:wink:

Zui
06-10-2006, 10:38
I do enjoy the change to 6 vs 6. However, the "exciting" changes to the maps mostly suck. Although I did have high expectations, like ANET scrapping *all* of the old maps and creating new ones... Since that didn't happen...

Getting rid of Burial Mounds I can live with, even though there was absolutly nothing wrong with it.

Courtyard still sucks. Except it's now shorter.

Broken Tower now sucks, because it's now Courtyard.

Scarred Earth got some much needed love, it was simply not fun to stand there for 10 minutes while two teams with absolutly horrible players and no where near enough damage duke it out, only to go on to roll the winner in less than a minute. Although, the new ganking angle kind of takes away from that. It's not fun when two good teams get matched up and duke it out, then another good team, and a horrible team get matched up. 3 ways are FTL. I'd have prefered they just limited this map to 2 teams maximum, or removed it instead of Burial Mounds....

So, all in all, I see three fairly bad moves, and one that's half good. Getting it an 1/8th right isn't all that bad when it comes to maps... Right?

Ailyrr Merlena
06-10-2006, 18:29
How about the fact they didn't remove Relic Runs, or update the map so that a spirit spammer couldn't block the bridge (both under and over)?

And the argument about the need for skills for running the relic still applies...now its just harder to make sure you have those needed skills. Unless, of course, you create your build around the off-chance you'll be getting the relic map.

Phoenixtech
07-10-2006, 09:27
What I loved most is that all they did was made HA more about luck with all of the 3-way gank fests and STILL haven't fixed the getting stuck bug. Having 1 player STUCK with 6 man is even worse than 8 man.

i cant get a username
07-10-2006, 09:59
Sacrred Earth is awesome :D(if you can win first :O), but yeah i really dont mind the changes as the altar maps have been changed so they are more like hoh.

twistedmo
07-10-2006, 10:21
Broken tower map is now more interesting, it gives good practice to holding halls.

Burial Mounds was useless when it was made 1v1 but if it went back to the old way like at the begining of GW it could be a gankfest(6v6v6v6v6v6 anybody).

But i'm sure new maps will come in due course

SDV Rider
07-10-2006, 23:44
I think the change on Scarred Earth is a very positive one. It gives an advantage to the team who is able to win their 1v1 first, so you there is incentive there. I don't believe the developers liked that the first team to win could affect the remaining two with spirits, distance aoe spells, etc, but the two teams inside really couldn't do anything back. In my opinion, this was changed for the same reason Halls was a while back (with fertile/symbiosis). Spirits are too decisive, and perhaps a bit unfair if you can't defend against them.


... something that people will most probably hate as its always been that people hate courtyard because there is so much luck involved.

I disagree with this. Good teams win Courtyard more often than not.

Lord Natural
08-10-2006, 09:30
The changes to scarred are nice, though Broken Tower is annoying. It's annoying that they took out Burial Mounds. 3-way match for 2 fame ftl.

Hatachi
08-10-2006, 09:50
I like the changes myself. Burial Grounds had 3/4 of the map out of use. One person could sneak back there and you take 10 minutes to find him. It just wasn't built for 1v1. Broken Tower I like, but I like it just because it lets people that don't normally make to end maps get a chance to play a multi team map as well. As for Scarred Earth, I think the change gives incentive to win earlier, and takes the boredom out if you win early and just sit around for 4 minutes. It also stops teams from being able to leave 1 person alive and just go kill ghost and ressurect up before they killed last opening the gate. It just doesn't really fit in (I don't think their should be a time when it is an advantage to not kill a team. This is just my opinion.) However, I do agree Relic Runs need taken out. They are a bit too diffrent in my honest opinion from other game types to really fit in the flow of the maps. But besides the one change they didn't make I want, they did a stellar job with the changes the did make. (Imo of course)

TeeBeeNZ
08-10-2006, 09:58
Burial Mounds was one of my favorites, I cant think of why they took this popular map out. I mean I imagined some of the crappy CTF maps were to be removed but this doesnt make sense. If it was due to its size then just crop the map, put some work in rather than just kill it.

Tucks
08-10-2006, 10:12
Relic runs are fine, i don't know why so many people hate them. They aren't broken (except maybe the choke under the bridge) and they have the teams on even grounds (except skills, but they made a conscious decision to take them/not unlike being ganked).

My problem is the scenario's where two teams can gank the third, seems totally unfair really, especially if it is the best team there.

flaming caster
09-10-2006, 18:03
yes i agree on that, when i was facing some top guilds in ha (pnh and top 50's) i often got whispers from other teams to "lets gank the blues together"

Lothiron
09-10-2006, 20:41
See, I think the subterfuge in HA now is a good thing.

I was in scarred earth yesterday, fighting it out with the blue team. Yellow opened the gate and tried to gank both of us. We and blue joined forces and kicked the hell out of yellow. Then we carried on our battle, and 3 minutes later, we defeated blue.

It was totally a blast.

Tucks
09-10-2006, 21:08
See, I think the subterfuge in HA now is a good thing.

I was in scarred earth yesterday, fighting it out with the blue team. Yellow opened the gate and tried to gank both of us. We and blue joined forces and kicked the hell out of yellow. Then we carried on our battle, and 3 minutes later, we defeated blue.

It was totally a blast.


It wasnt you who was ganked, it was Yellow.

Xcutioner
18-10-2006, 22:42
I think Burial Mounds was takin out because of priest camping, which allowed mediocre teams to drag out matches that they had no chance of winning.

Freekey Zeekey
18-10-2006, 23:37
^ you can do the same in Dark Chambers..even worse using those alters which dont work as good as they did before but some cheesy tactics still work there Trust me on that....so maybe they should have taken that map out as well and have -2 maps...

come on man Anet aint really bright dude when it comes to drastick decision making

Mathius Clarkus
18-10-2006, 23:50
i like the map changes i beleive they bring a new ellement of play into the game. A change is nice now and again and more multi-fight maps mean more blood-fests:cool:
of course those who keep loosing on the maps will bad-mouth it but as with most things i think most people will realise they have their ups and downs and acdcept them like they did the last ones.

Freekey Zeekey
19-10-2006, 01:04
most pre nerf tombs play dont care neather cuz wer usualy the ones winning...

ZiegDivine
19-10-2006, 02:38
What I loved most is that all they did was made HA more about luck with all of the 3-way gank fests and STILL haven't fixed the getting stuck bug. Having 1 player STUCK with 6 man is even worse than 8 man.

Yep, that totally sucks. Our monk got stuck in scarred earth yesterday. Of course, due to the third team being not too bright and trying to kill 2 teams at once, we won.

I like most of the map changes, my only complaint is the removal of the priest map. I like going through many maps, getting increasingly more fame ... why take a map out of rotation? What was wrong with it? If you're worried about people running off, well just delete 3/4th of the map. Is that so hard? 3 way altars are easy to win, most of the time the team that should win, does (I just happen to be in it...).

Aire
19-10-2006, 10:33
I like the 6v6 changes, but by god those map changes were a total joke....

Ranger Nietzsche
21-10-2006, 10:32
more annihilation less altar holding.

how the heck is a 6 man team supposed to defend against 12?

Ayumu
21-10-2006, 16:17
how the heck is a 6 man team supposed to defend against 12?Not at all. Just let your Ghostly die. The second he's dead the other two teams lost their common enemy and will stop cooperating. Then just interrupt for the remaining two minutes. You should have at least two primary interrupters on your team, four is of course better. Since both of the other teams will have at least two interrupters too it should be easy to hold.
Of course one of the other two teams might do something unexpected like not notecing your Hero's dead and continue to attack you. In that case you'll lose, but so will they. But that's just how 3 team maps work.

Did I mention I hate 3 team maps?

Luckyly this will change soon, look forward to next friday and the Song of Concentration. :smiley:

FarbrorVattenmelon
21-10-2006, 16:54
Or the other team will kill you before you actually get to hold and go straight on you right away.

ZiegDivine
22-10-2006, 01:10
If you get killed by only one team, while the other sits back and watches, you don't deserve to go to the next map anyway, seeing as how you can't kill a team 1v1.

asxtc
25-10-2006, 13:20
imho...the worst change is definately turning Broken Tower into a 3-way.

The element of luck on winning this map has been greatly increased. No-one minds a fight where the best team wins (the majority of the time)..but this is no longer the case with BTower. Even decent top ranked teams can fall foul of "yellow/blue/red" just not having a clue and not playing the game.
There is also a lot of ganking and fighting from a poor position in an attempt to "prevent" another team winning..no matter the cost.

The best team wont always win a 1v1 but this change has now turned into:
1v2 or 1v1+1...with the emphasis on beating the "guild or ranked" team higher on the agenda than winning.


Making this map a 4 way...wont prevent ganking...but it would spice it up to level most would accept (you just would never get a team capping)

ImSoToast
13-11-2006, 13:33
What a suprise and treat it would be if tehy made new maps with the big update coming up.

Supreme Commander
13-11-2006, 20:51
imho...the worst change is definately turning Broken Tower into a 3-way.

The element of luck on winning this map has been greatly increased. No-one minds a fight where the best team wins (the majority of the time)..but this is no longer the case with BTower. Even decent top ranked teams can fall foul of "yellow/blue/red" just not having a clue and not playing the game.
There is also a lot of ganking and fighting from a poor position in an attempt to "prevent" another team winning..no matter the cost.

The best team wont always win a 1v1 but this change has now turned into:
1v2 or 1v1+1...with the emphasis on beating the "guild or ranked" team higher on the agenda than winning.


Making this map a 4 way...wont prevent ganking...but it would spice it up to level most would accept (you just would never get a team capping)

I think you should take it from a far different aproach. Broken tower 1v1 is pretty much like annihilation, if you are able to kill the other team, they cant hold the altar. Making it 1v1v1 definately makes it more exciting and needs more preparation. You can decide. Early cap? can you hold for 2 mins? late cap? do they have interrupters? can we prevent them long enough? de we have something to stop interrupting? how long can we survive high-pressure? these are all questions that should be answered. Now this isnt always easy on pugs getting through all this but on guild teams or friend-teams it's a good thing to do.

The same is for Scarred Earth. When you win the first battle, do you rush in to gank the winning team? Can you take the risk of both teams ganking you instead? For the second team, is the 3rd team a threat? What do we do when they get in? do we attack them instead or do we retreat to leave the team they had just been fighting, causing a stalemate on who start the next attack.

The game has changed to have people to think of new tactics and to think about questions like those much more now. If you can combine good tactics, with an all-round teambuild, you'll have a fairly good chance of winning the first few games. Ofcourse, the luck of the draw always takes chance, ie: 50% chance to block, miss etc. But a team shouldn't rely on just luck, I think everyone knows that.

cheers.

Bacon
14-11-2006, 04:53
I think you should take it from a far different aproach. Broken tower 1v1 is pretty much like annihilation, if you are able to kill the other team, they cant hold the altar. Making it 1v1v1 definately makes it more exciting and needs more preparation. You can decide. Early cap? can you hold for 2 mins? late cap? do they have interrupters? can we prevent them long enough? de we have something to stop interrupting? how long can we survive high-pressure? these are all questions that should be answered. Now this isnt always easy on pugs getting through all this but on guild teams or friend-teams it's a good thing to do.

The same is for Scarred Earth. When you win the first battle, do you rush in to gank the winning team? Can you take the risk of both teams ganking you instead? For the second team, is the 3rd team a threat? What do we do when they get in? do we attack them instead or do we retreat to leave the team they had just been fighting, causing a stalemate on who start the next attack.

The game has changed to have people to think of new tactics and to think about questions like those much more now. If you can combine good tactics, with an all-round teambuild, you'll have a fairly good chance of winning the first few games. Ofcourse, the luck of the draw always takes chance, ie: 50% chance to block, miss etc. But a team shouldn't rely on just luck, I think everyone knows that.

cheers.

As good as that sounds, it isn't how it actually works when you play.

Broken tower 1v1v1 is just courtyard with orbs instead of priests. If you have enough protection, just hold for 2 mins as you would on courtyard. Usually its real team vs heroway vs heroway, so just cap first and its gg.

Scarred Earth is a ****ing joke now. If you're a guild and you finish last, you're going to get ganked. If you're in a well known group and finish last, you're going to get ganked. If you finish first, it'll probably be a win for you, considering you can a) just completely destroy both teams when they're both low or b) let them finish, and kill the winners while they're low.

There are no new tactics. Period.

MAOLeader
17-11-2006, 00:07
im absolutely loving the 30-40 minute matches I'm having in scarred earth... really I mean... /resign and restart the run, worth the 1 fame. Oh right, only 1 fame because I skipped from Zaishen... GRRRR