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View Full Version : 6v6 is here to stay FOR GOOD (MERGED)



dbgtboy
12-10-2006, 21:04
Some weeks ago, the Priests of Balthazar conducted an experiment to finally settle the smoldering debate: Instead of traditional teams of eight, could six-member teams actually appease the spirits of the Rifts? The experiment proved fruitful, for this week the Priests declared six-person teams as permanent law when entering the sacred battleground. The transfiguration has been active for approximately one week now, and the Priests report overwhelmingly positive reactions from the masses.

from: http://www.guildwars.com/community/thescribe/scribe-061012.php

discuss

David Holtzman
12-10-2006, 21:23
Only two words for the scribe: Prove it.

Ayumu
12-10-2006, 21:58
the Priests report overwhelmingly positive reactions from the masses.I've read 3 different forums and listened to a lot of chatter in HA and before and after the fights and I'd describe the reactions as mixed at best. But of course I know that forums aren't representative so ... perhaps he's right ... just perhaps.
Overall, everyone seems very pleased.Who is this "everyone" guy, I'd like to have a word with him.
According to the Priests of Balthazar, the spirits appear more entertained now than they have been for some timeAh, well, as long as the spirits are entertained it's all right I guess. But how many of those will buy Nightfall?

Freekey Zeekey
12-10-2006, 22:42
anet needs a to sit a few innings out imo

dbgtboy
12-10-2006, 22:52
i cant seem to find the edit button to edit my original post so ill add this here too:



Overall, everyone seems very pleased. According to the Priests of Balthazar, the spirits appear more entertained now than they have been for some time—due to the infusion of unique and abstract team configurations within their resting place. Those who have competed in the combat also radiate pleasure when discussing the change, saying it is slowly but surely eliminating the stale, repetitive strategies they encountered in the past.

Fafner
12-10-2006, 23:07
I hope the scribe is right.

However, I also hope that new maps can be created/adapted to reflect the smaller team format to appease some of the more obstinate opponents.

ZiegDivine
13-10-2006, 00:59
Scribe = anet. Of course it's going to be positive...

Nurse With Wound
13-10-2006, 01:38
Scribe = PR guy in anet. What elese he could say? And yeah, using words like "everyone" and "overwhelmingly positive reactions" makes this just ridiculusly funny. Its clear now, that they are trying very hard.....

melandrus elite
13-10-2006, 02:08
Scribe equals someone who has never tried to get r6 and had to change his whole way of getting it taking him a week and half to find a new build that suits him...and until he shows a screenshot of the spirits in the rift saying "ya that 6v6 apeases me!" im gonna try and petition it back with all my efforts.

Freekey Zeekey
13-10-2006, 02:29
laughing out loud

Nurse With Wound
13-10-2006, 03:21
Those who have competed in the combat also radiate pleasure when discussing the change,

Just had the time to read the full text. Lmao, I want a piece of what this dude is smoking :grin: Makes the world around you all colourfull and happy. Oh, and everyone "radiate pleasure".


According to the Priests of Balthazar, the spirits appear more entertained now than they have been for some time—due to the infusion of unique and abstract team configurations within their resting place ....If you have not had a chance, enlist your five most trusted soldiers

Translation :wammo "ted teh pwner", and his trusted team of henches. Lets not forget "V I M For Lyfe" and his team of elite r3+ trappers. Also, they all "radiate pleasure".

Thanks for all the comedy value. But dear scribe, try to lurk more next time.

opuis
13-10-2006, 03:23
HA quality has went downhill more than I expected since the change. I still fight a decent team maybe twice a run, but in general it's lost alot of quality. Henchway is every other team until Unholy.

One thing for sure, "The Scribe" doesnt HA.

ubard
13-10-2006, 03:26
Scribe equals someone who has never tried to get r6 and had to change his whole way of getting it taking him a week and half to find a new build that suits him...and until he shows a screenshot of the spirits in the rift saying "ya that 6v6 apeases me!" im gonna try and petition it back with all my efforts.

hehe, just like too say that since he works for Anet he probably COULD get that screenshot :)

i for one am totally nuetral on this whole thing, i think HA needed a change, maybe this is it.

(i'm definitely NOT liking some of the map changes... except burial mounds... i mean, good memory's there, but it really kindof "nerfs" fame-farming.)

wherever the scribe get's his info, it's definitely not from any forums, where it's all negative... or from id1... where it's all negative.

guess the 8v8 campaignists are just more outspoken :)


EDIT: however, i will miss the good ol' 3 monk backline... i guess that's dead now. It WAS getting kindof stale since factions changed bloody nothing, but nightfall really would have shaken things up on it's own at least in the backline. Get some variety.

opuis
13-10-2006, 03:31
guess the 8v8 campaignists are just more outspoken :)

I would say they're the ones who care (minus a small fraction praising it).

SilentVex
13-10-2006, 03:54
Whether anet cares to admit it or not, they are losing money on this. I know of several people that have quit because of the change, and tons more that are disgusted. Their PR can try to convince people of whatever they want, but 5 minutes in HA and it's obvious what people really think (in the 3 districts of HA...).

Edit: Oh, and today I saw "six v six suuucks has won a battle in the hall of heroes". Anet is high, or blind, or both.

deya
13-10-2006, 05:19
All this crying makes me..... laughing, good reading guys - keep it up!

nightrunner
13-10-2006, 05:42
Priests report overwhelmingly positive reactions from the masses.

I think 'masses' is another term for ViMway balls and RA champs.

Maybe their Priests only got as far as the Community Discussion forums and read all the PvEer's reports on how good the fame farming was, instead of continuing to the PvP forums.

David Holtzman
13-10-2006, 05:43
All this crying makes me..... laughing, good reading guys - keep it up!

Didn't your mother teach you that if you didn't have anything useful to say, you shouldn't say anything?

Leet Boi
13-10-2006, 06:31
zomfgwtfanetpwned

selber
13-10-2006, 07:56
The transfiguration has been active for approximately one week now, and the Priests report overwhelmingly positive reactions from the masses.

Only two words for the scribe: Prove it.


http://forums.gwonline.net/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=5584

MOD EDIT - READ THE RULES

eowen
13-10-2006, 09:44
thanks selber for remind them of this.
and remember there are probably even more people who prefer 6. Indeed its mainly the hardcore HA people who prefered 8. And its mainly hardcore pvpers who will go to the effort of posting about pvp in forums. (ex: you are a good cook and dont care about space exploration, you post in cooking forums, not space exploration forums, logical).
So it seems true that an overwhelming majority prefer 6v6. The polls show it, even though they were made in a forum, that probably had more die hard pvp fans per user, than the game itself does.

David Holtzman
13-10-2006, 11:15
http://forums.gwonline.net/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=5584

None of that was proof. What would be proof is a comparison chart between games played average between 6v6 and 8v8, or people entered. I don't particularly care what people's opinions on the change are, I want to see what is actually happening.

Cirian
13-10-2006, 12:14
Anet can't please everyone :/

David Holtzman
13-10-2006, 12:22
Anet can't please everyone :/

True, but they could do an awful lot better at pleasing more people. Adding a 6v6 Arena (it could even give fame. I don't care!) to the game would have pleased the people who wanted it and not alienated the people who played (and I use the past tense) GW for HA. The biggest problem with Anet's PR is that they don't know how to give without taking something away. Look at Champion points, for example. A lot of people were happy that it was dropped to 1200rating (myself included) but in doing so it angered people who prized it as a very difficult goal (at 1500). If they wanted to please more people (in general a good thing if you then want those people to give you money) they could simply have made a separate title for 1200 (or they could have started it at 1200 to begin with. Can't take away something that hasn't been given).

Tucks
13-10-2006, 13:26
I'm still pretty certain that once the novelty wears off this place will become as dead as TA. Infact, why didnt they make TA 6v6?

Also - the only place i have to go to to find some real competition these days is GvG, and somtimes that just isnt possible whenever i feel like it because I/my guildies have seperate lives and schedules.
Anet shouldn't always bend to the masses because the masses don't always care outside a limited scope. The government doesn't stop taking taxes because the masses want it because its what makes the country function.

Will it be possible for Anet to get statistics of the players in HA in a few months time, and compare them to the amount when it was 8v8?

Aire
13-10-2006, 13:33
I much prefer 6v6 tbh...

Loq
13-10-2006, 14:04
Well HA is not anymore about how skilled the player is and the build, but it is all about the build!!

6v6 HA = builds win games and player skills are not that important anymore.

I like both formats, I like slightly more 6v6, but at the end 6v6 is a noob fest contest in HA, it gets boring after a while to fight players that have no idea how to play well.

Pity GW HA was really interesting to play, the fights I use to have, counters here and countes there!!! Now very often you dont have the counter for some builds and you just have to resign and start again.

Ah well time to take a break from this game.

Aire
13-10-2006, 14:14
Well HA is not anymore about how skilled the player is and the build, but it is all about the build!!

6v6 HA = builds win games and player skills are not that important anymore.

L M A O - so clearly taking characters SOLELY to control heroes in the HoH wasn't build orientated?

Loq
13-10-2006, 14:17
L M A O - so clearly taking characters SOLELY to control heroes in the HoH wasn't build orientated?

LOL It is not my fault you couldnt beat those builds in 8v8 LOL.

Anyway those builds still exist now in 6v6 so your point is????

Ectos N Shards
13-10-2006, 14:21
ahhhh, g-hey.

Lykan
13-10-2006, 14:26
The scribe is a PR sheep who needs to spend more time outside of shing jea monastry.

Buddah
13-10-2006, 15:39
Whether anet cares to admit it or not, they are losing money on this.
Not really. People have bought the game already. Many/most will get Nightfall. At best they could say they are saving money as they need to pay less for bandwidth.


I'm still pretty certain that once the novelty wears off this place will become as dead as TA. Infact, why didnt they make TA 6v6?

Because it is already used as an end point to RA. Also A few guilds still work out of TA trying to earn glad points off of those fragmented teams that have made it out of RA.

Tucks
13-10-2006, 15:53
Because it is already used as an end point to RA. Also A few guilds still work out of TA trying to earn glad points off of those fragmented teams that have made it out of RA.

Yeah but 8v8 HA was 50x more popular then TA.

VILenin
13-10-2006, 16:51
I actually prefer the 6v6. Whether you like the change or not, the fact of the matter is that 6v6 is exponentially easier to get out of teambuilding and into actual fighting, thus making it more accessible. I didn't mind 8v8, but damned if I was going to wait an hour before every match to get the team together.

Tucks
13-10-2006, 17:29
I actually prefer the 6v6. Whether you like the change or not, the fact of the matter is that 6v6 is exponentially easier to get out of teambuilding and into actual fighting, thus making it more accessible. I didn't mind 8v8, but damned if I was going to wait an hour before every match to get the team together.

Go to the magical place where you don't need to put any effort into building a team, i believe its called "random arena"

Freekey Zeekey
13-10-2006, 18:08
I actually prefer the 6v6. Whether you like the change or not, the fact of the matter is that 6v6 is exponentially easier to get out of teambuilding and into actual fighting, thus making it more accessible. I didn't mind 8v8, but damned if I was going to wait an hour before every match to get the team together.

Thats your fault not ours....

Not everyone starts the game at the same time....If you would have gotten into pvp sooner u would build a friends list/guilds list ect and not spend time to get into a team....I really dislike you kind that thinks so...spend less time farming at Witmans Folly and go pvp more you wont have a problem getting into team...

Its like joining a mmorpg where X Domination X is lvl 200 and your lvl 20...those admins aint gona give you a free ****ing handout

LOL i love you guys :D

Edric
13-10-2006, 19:54
Go to the magical place where you don't need to put any effort into building a team, i believe its called "random arena"

Couldn't have said it better myself.


Also I think the scribe said something about build variety? Puh-leaze. I sat in ID one for over an hour last night and saw nothing but ViM and Dual Smite ads. Oh, there was one R-Spike. Haven't seen that one before though.

Bring back the crazy eights. I've cancelled my Nightfall pre-order as of today.

opuis
13-10-2006, 20:11
http://forums.gwonline.net/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=5584

MOD EDIT - READ THE RULES

Hi Deya ~ !

lol, j/k but not in a sense.



I actually prefer the 6v6. Whether you like the change or not, the fact of the matter is that 6v6 is exponentially easier to get out of teambuilding and into actual fighting, thus making it more accessible. I didn't mind 8v8, but damned if I was going to wait an hour before every match to get the team together.

Hey, we were all in this position at one time or another. Those of us that HA everyday or at least regularly surely have had difficulty at one time or another finding a group. All opinions aside, can you honestly say the gameplay is better with 6v6?

I'd hope you say no - 70% Teams Smite, 15 % Degen, 14% 1-man hencway, then you have Eugen's dual surgers and Kirsty's dual flashbots (the only 2 interesting builds Ive ran into).

Wet One
13-10-2006, 20:31
it takes just as long to make a man team as it does to make an 8 man team... except now instead of those people who needed 3 more people now they only need 1 more person..

The reason you only see vimway and dual smite spamming the channel is that those are the people who have no friend lists, and those are probably the only 2 builds that they are compitent of running...... 1,2,3,4,5,6... when health gets low or e gets low push 7 and repeat... SWARM THE ALTER!!! ZERG RUSH ON THE ALTER NOW!!!!!!!! Emote under the bridge... lol everyone else checks the friends list... if the friends are busy i ask them if they can reccomend any of their friends...

Xunlai Agent
13-10-2006, 23:40
^^ nice babble

I actually prefer this but whatever...

melandrus elite
14-10-2006, 01:11
Hello i am the GW players voice scribe scribe...the one who tells the truth.
If i don't say that ANet is doing a good thing i'll be fired, so please don't mind my lies. i just hope that ANet keeps giving more crap to smoke so i don't know how bad the real deal in HA is.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~the real thoughts of the scribe~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

melandrus elite
14-10-2006, 01:15
Couldn't have said it better myself.


Also I think the scribe said something about build variety? Puh-leaze. I sat in ID one for over an hour last night and saw nothing but ViM and Dual Smite ads. Oh, there was one R-Spike. Haven't seen that one before though.

Bring back the crazy eights. I've cancelled my Nightfall pre-order as of today.

Well you did forget balance NR/Tranq, Starburst and this crazy exhaustion build i saw ran by there is a cow level(guild).

Deaths
14-10-2006, 02:04
I prefere 8vs8. Their were alot of Tactical movements in 8vs8 even in Ha. More possible varitys to the builds.

If i go now in HA teams theirs is only one thing lfet out dmg the oppent and win.

The only thing i Love are the map changes. 3 Teams on ALtar maps would be more fun with 8vs8. The Team who caps first will lose usually if they dont face nubs.

Burial is removed. I still dont get why. Because of fame farming. Ppl are farming fame with henchs. So they should bring burial back.

Sacred is fun. U have to kill fast so u can gank. Its like the good old days. :D

But 6vs6 is like TA with just 2 more ppl.

KuruSeed
14-10-2006, 07:50
I wasn't aware the entire forum users of Guild Wars Online was the entire userbase for Guild Wars itself.

I had fun with 8vs.8 and 6vs.6.

You could say I don't pvp and you'd be half right.

Aire
14-10-2006, 08:54
LOL It is not my fault you couldnt beat those builds in 8v8 LOL.

Anyway those builds still exist now in 6v6 so your point is????

Erm... most of those builds are totally useless in 6v6 - and its not that its easy to beat the build - its how irritating it is in HoH when you're trying to cap vs. two teams with two copies of seeking arrows/Practiced Stance. Its not actually possible.

Removing the ability to take characters thats sole use was for HoH or relic runs is good. Generally insulting player skill is bad ...

Tucks
14-10-2006, 12:24
Erm... most of those builds are totally useless in 6v6 - and its not that its easy to beat the build - its how irritating it is in HoH when you're trying to cap vs. two teams with two copies of seeking arrows/Practiced Stance. Its not actually possible.


That was part of the fun - knowing how to overcome that sort of thing with whatever you had. If there are two teams with that you can safely assume they will interupt eachother forever, so you send your own people to DEAL WITH IT. Part of the skill was learning to track all the players and know what everyone was doing, and somtimes all it takes is a tiny bit of pressure, or a shock/interupt in the right place to get your hero to cap.

No offence, but if you think that it wasnt possible to cap you weren't playing right.

Aire
14-10-2006, 12:25
No offence, but if you think that it wasnt possible to cap you weren't playing right.

Against two decent teams - it was. You can't shut down 4 characters with 5, and still hope to out heal the rest of the teams...

sahlakh
14-10-2006, 12:28
People who are satisfied don't complain. There's a poll over at TGH made after the permanent change. 73.39% of people who answered like 6 vs. 6 HA better and only 8.87% dislike it.

Tucks
14-10-2006, 13:45
Against two decent teams - it was. You can't shut down 4 characters with 5, and still hope to out heal the rest of the teams...

You are saying that both teams will be interrupting your ghost? So the team who has the altar wont be interrupting the other team attempting to cap?

You will tend to have 2 people to your ghost, easy to stop. I've lost count of the amount of times i have interrupted seeking or even chopped pd. Shock, wait for them to stand up and they will have an interrupt queued, so its just learning to time you chop/blow/whatever interrupt. Then there is also a whole range of counters, like a flash bot, curse spammer, chain kd's, even just killing them as the holding team usually has a dead back line.

slakt
14-10-2006, 15:04
People who are satisfied don't complain. There's a poll over at TGH made after the permanent change. 73.39% of people who answered like 6 vs. 6 HA better and only 8.87% dislike it.

But do you think that those 73% will be playing HA regularly from now on? If you would have a poll only for people who actually play HA, I'm sure the result would be pretty different. HA players don't want 6v6, those who want/wanted it are PvE:ers, Arena Players and GvG:ers who don't play alot of HA. They don't really care, but figure that "what the hell, a change might be make HA more fun/easier to get into". So they try it, notice the new metagame, play for a while - but then get tired of it for the same reasons as before the change. In the long run the change to 6vs6 won't have any affect on the "atmosphere" or whatever of HA. It won't do anything except crippling the gameplay and reducing the HA communty.

sahlakh
14-10-2006, 15:31
But do you think that those 73% will be playing HA regularly from now on? If you would have a poll only for people who actually play HA, I'm sure the result would be pretty different. HA players don't want 6v6, those who want/wanted it are PvE:ers, Arena Players and GvG:ers who don't play alot of HA. They don't really care, but figure that "what the hell, a change might be make HA more fun/easier to get into". So they try it, notice the new metagame, play for a while - but then get tired of it for the same reasons as before the change. In the long run the change to 6vs6 won't have any affect on the "atmosphere" or whatever of HA. It won't do anything except crippling the gameplay and reducing the HA communty.

The poll also had an option, "I don't play HA". Anyways, the number of people who dislike the change still seems low to me.

I'm not surprised the people who used to play HA a lot don't like the change. But remember, the change wasn't meant to piss off existing HA players, it' goal was to attract new players to a "dead" place, and based on the figures, it wasn't a bad idea.

Tucks
14-10-2006, 17:14
The poll also had an option, "I don't play HA". Anyways, the number of people who dislike the change still seems low to me.

I'm not surprised the people who used to play HA a lot don't like the change. But remember, the change wasn't meant to piss off existing HA players, it' goal was to attract new players to a "dead" place, and based on the figures, it wasn't a bad idea.

TA has always been more dead then HA. You were lucky to get more then one district in Euro/International servers. Compare that to HA... Why mess with it?

Zui
14-10-2006, 17:21
But do you think that those 73% will be playing HA regularly from now on? If you would have a poll only for people who actually play HA, I'm sure the result would be pretty different. HA players don't want 6v6, those who want/wanted it are PvE:ers, Arena Players and GvG:ers who don't play alot of HA. They don't really care, but figure that "what the hell, a change might be make HA more fun/easier to get into". So they try it, notice the new metagame, play for a while - but then get tired of it for the same reasons as before the change. In the long run the change to 6vs6 won't have any affect on the "atmosphere" or whatever of HA. It won't do anything except crippling the gameplay and reducing the HA communty.

Even if the size of the community stays exactly the same, meaning Heroes' Ascent community looses as many players as it gains, 6 vs 6 still allows for easier PUG formation, and means there are more teams in toumbs at any given time. The fact you could form an IWAY team in under two minutes was one reason alot of people played it. Now you can form a poor balanced in under two minutes! Lol. I think that does change the atmosphere, although not very much...

Mathius Clarkus
14-10-2006, 17:55
i prefer 6v6 to 8v8 - easier to get a group easier to organise, new tactics and we all ready have 8v8 for gvg - if people miss 8v8 that much - go do gvg.

eowen
14-10-2006, 18:12
there is nothing more to discuss, polls have shown people prefer 6v6.

wether or not 6v6 is better or not than 8v8 has no importance. People who prefered 8v8 need to stop trying to make people who like 6v6 look like noobs. We all know the noob callers are infact the noobs themselves.

I would trust a pve monk with rank 0 more than a pvp monk rank 6 all earned on IWAY warrior.

Tucks
14-10-2006, 18:48
there is nothing more to discuss, polls have shown people prefer 6v6.

wether or not 6v6 is better or not than 8v8 has no importance. People who prefered 8v8 need to stop trying to make people who like 6v6 look like noobs. We all know the noob callers are infact the noobs themselves.

I would trust a pve monk with rank 0 more than a pvp monk rank 6 all earned on IWAY warrior.


I would trust the iway warrior, because they have 10x more experience, are mor eliekly to know builds/counters and know maps. Also in the last phase of iway (im gunna shocked to hear myself say this) it took skill to run because it was balanced and not overpowered and counters were standard in most teams. Thats why most people moved onto builds like bloodspike and ViM who were interested in easy fame.

I dont play iway or anything like that, but i still have more respect for them then most.



i prefer 6v6 to 8v8 - easier to get a group easier to organise, new tactics and we all ready have 8v8 for gvg - if people miss 8v8 that much - go do gvg.

GvG is completely different to what HA was. Thats like comparing apples and oranges.

David Holtzman
14-10-2006, 21:24
The poll also had an option, "I don't play HA". Anyways, the number of people who dislike the change still seems low to me.

I'm not surprised the people who used to play HA a lot don't like the change. But remember, the change wasn't meant to piss off existing HA players, it' goal was to attract new players to a "dead" place, and based on the figures, it wasn't a bad idea.

I think you're taking the conclusions of the figures too far Empeh. The poll asks which you enjoy, making no real reference to how often you play. All it shows is that a majority of the voters prefer the 6v6, not that 6v6 is more played now than 8v8 was. It's also entirely possible that the people who liked 8v8 didn't vote because they had left the game. Really, the only figures that would allow us to come to these sorts of conclusions are games played before/after, people entering before/after, and people consistently playing before/after.

ZiegDivine
14-10-2006, 21:28
I think you're taking the conclusions of the figures too far Empeh. The poll asks which you enjoy, making no real reference to how often you play. All it shows is that a majority of the voters prefer the 6v6, not that 6v6 is more played now than 8v8 was. It's also entirely possible that the people who liked 8v8 didn't vote because they had left the game. Really, the only figures that would allow us to come to these sorts of conclusions are games played before/after, people entering before/after, and people consistently playing before/after.

Another "figure" which should be included, but won't, is the number of good or at least decent players in HA. There's no real way to measure it, but from my own experience the overall skill in HA has taken a dip. That's why, in my opinion, 8v8 > 6v6, no matter what a poll shows.

Wuzzman
14-10-2006, 23:38
I've read 3 different forums and listened to a lot of chatter in HA and before and after the fights and I'd describe the reactions as mixed at best. But of course I know that forums aren't representative so ... perhaps he's right ... just perhaps.Who is this "everyone" guy, I'd like to have a word with him.Ah, well, as long as the spirits are entertained it's all right I guess. But how many of those will buy Nightfall?

pve'ers buy nightfall for the most part the people who buy nightfall don't give a damn about hero ascent.

Wuzzman
14-10-2006, 23:43
there is nothing more to discuss, polls have shown people prefer 6v6.

wether or not 6v6 is better or not than 8v8 has no importance. People who prefered 8v8 need to stop trying to make people who like 6v6 look like noobs. We all know the noob callers are infact the noobs themselves.

I would trust a pve monk with rank 0 more than a pvp monk rank 6 all earned on IWAY warrior.

I wouldn't trust a pve monk period in pvp. Considering that r6 kids who can't monk because they play iway all day DO NOT PLAY AS MONKS, I'm ok.

Wuzzman
15-10-2006, 00:05
thanks selber for remind them of this.
and remember there are probably even more people who prefer 6. Indeed its mainly the hardcore HA people who prefered 8. And its mainly hardcore pvpers who will go to the effort of posting about pvp in forums. (ex: you are a good cook and dont care about space exploration, you post in cooking forums, not space exploration forums, logical).
So it seems true that an overwhelming majority prefer 6v6. The polls show it, even though they were made in a forum, that probably had more die hard pvp fans per user, than the game itself does.

Actually most Guild Wars forums are occupied by pve'ers. They out number pvp'ers 4 to 1 and consider even with a pvp section of a forum it doesn't stop pve'ers from posting on them. The true testiment to how "popular" 6v6 ha is the 3 international districts in hero ascent. GG.

David Holtzman
15-10-2006, 02:25
Another "figure" which should be included, but won't, is the number of good or at least decent players in HA. There's no real way to measure it, but from my own experience the overall skill in HA has taken a dip. That's why, in my opinion, 8v8 > 6v6, no matter what a poll shows.

Being good is a (somewhat, depends on definition) qualitative fact. As such there's really no way for Anet's numbers to track it. They could potentially do so with rank, but since everyone seems to insist that rank is meaningless as a guide, I don't think they would get anywhere.

ZiegDivine
15-10-2006, 02:33
Exactly...

Parker Bsb
15-10-2006, 18:59
A conversation about which gender plays better is not relevant or even fair. Stick to the discussion at hand (which I'll remind people is about 6v6).

Edric
16-10-2006, 15:51
Did anyone see the poll that Gaile says she posted on a fansite about 6v6 HA? She stated in the recent in game chat log that 70% of people were in favor of the changes and that the activity in the districts at Hero's Ascent show that 6v6 has been well received (I'm paraphrasing...look at the chat log here (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=424865) for the actual text)

I wonder of those people active in HA, how many want it to change back. I also wonder how that poll can be considered accurate since people on fansites don't all play HA regularly (I'd assume).

Just more meat for the grinder...

Wet One
16-10-2006, 15:57
Did anyone see the poll that Gaile says she posted on a fansite about 6v6 HA? She stated in the recent in game chat log that 70% of people were in favor of the changes and that the activity in the districts at Hero's Ascent show that 6v6 has been well received (I'm paraphrasing...look at the chat log here (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=424865) for the actual text)

I wonder of those people active in HA, how many want it to change back. I also wonder how that poll can be considered accurate since people on fansites don't all play HA regularly (I'd assume).

Just more meat for the grinder...

So where was she when this took place? I am assuming from the frog talk that it was not in HA.... seems kind of dumb to have this discussion in a PvE town if thats where it took place... but hey thats just me.

Edric
16-10-2006, 17:44
So where was she when this took place? I am assuming from the frog talk that it was not in HA.... seems kind of dumb to have this discussion in a PvE town if thats where it took place... but hey thats just me.

I concur. I also think its irrelevent to take the opinions of PvEr's that play PvP a few times and decide they hate it but are glad there was 6v6 since it was easier to find a team.

Ruin it for people who have been PvPing for a few months or over a year so you can say that people love the changes. I don't get it. Maybe they should change PvE so that you can only have four people in the higher level zones but don't adjust the mob levels. That way every team can be run like a four man green farm.

PvP got the shaft.

Alleji
16-10-2006, 19:17
Well HA is not anymore about how skilled the player is and the build, but it is all about the build!!

6v6 HA = builds win games and player skills are not that important anymore.That's true if two good teams face each other. The build will be a big advantage there and has a good chance of deciding the match. But take a team of idiots, give them your uber-build of pwnage and see how much player skill really decides.

My team has won plenty of fights because of our skill, even when facing a direct counter to our build. Best example is probably beating a team that runs a shields up chain + dual aegis with rspike. Yes, it took 52 minutes, but seeing them flame us after the fight for being rspike "noobs" was totally worth it.

Freekey Zeekey
16-10-2006, 20:16
^ nothing more pleasing about those wins..even if its for 1-2 fame...

like i always say in my pugs "patience is a virtue"

Bacon
16-10-2006, 21:47
I concur. I also think its irrelevent to take the opinions of PvEr's that play PvP a few times and decide they hate it but are glad there was 6v6 since it was easier to find a team.

Ruin it for people who have been PvPing for a few months or over a year so you can say that people love the changes. I don't get it. Maybe they should change PvE so that you can only have four people in the higher level zones but don't adjust the mob levels. That way every team can be run like a four man green farm.

PvP got the shaft.

As true as that is, its how it will stay. There's obviously more PvE'ers who PvP once in a while than hardcore PvP'ers. That means PvE'ers make up over 50% of the game. Since money means more than anything, Anet will want to please the PvE'ers. Please the majority of the game = more profits for Anet. I have no doubt that Anet doesn't care about what the PvP'ers say, HA players in particular. They just want more people happy than unhappy.

defrule
17-10-2006, 20:22
Did anyone see the poll that Gaile says she posted on a fansite about 6v6 HA? She stated in the recent in game chat log that 70% of people were in favor of the changes and that the activity in the districts at Hero's Ascent show that 6v6 has been well received (I'm paraphrasing...look at the chat log here (http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=424865) for the actual text)

I wonder of those people active in HA, how many want it to change back. I also wonder how that poll can be considered accurate since people on fansites don't all play HA regularly (I'd assume).

Just more meat for the grinder...

If it wasn't well recieved, they wouldn't openly admit it would they?

slakt
17-10-2006, 21:14
If it wasn't well recieved, they wouldn't openly admit it would they?

It was well recieved among people who don't play HA, but not well recieved among people who do play HA. And since there are many more non-HA players than HA players, Anet says that the change were well recieved. And technically, the majority likes the change, but the majority doesn't play HA.

defrule
18-10-2006, 01:30
Wow i just noticed, is that 70% coming from the poll in the guild hall? 177 votes at the time of writing, and they is definitely a good sample size to represent the population.

Aire
18-10-2006, 15:48
Wow i just noticed, is that 70% coming from the poll in the guild hall? 177 votes at the time of writing, and they is definitely a good sample size to represent the population.

Nope - i believe the results are compounded from all fansites. TGH actually says that 9% dislike the changes, the rest either dont care or like it....

I'm also loving the comments by HA'ers about the loss of skill - keep going, its good entatainment :grin:

Tucks
18-10-2006, 16:04
Nope - i believe the results are compounded from all fansites. TGH actually says that 9% dislike the changes, the rest either dont care or like it....

I'm also loving the comments by HA'ers about the loss of skill - keep going, its good entatainment :grin:

Well, my personal observations is that it is rediculously easy there now, and therefore no fun. Last time i played i only lost on the last 2 altar maps.

David Holtzman
18-10-2006, 18:14
I'm also loving the comments by HA'ers about the loss of skill - keep going, its good entatainment :grin:

Why do people feel the need to make this sort of insipid commentary? Condescension is not an attractive quality in a person in any sense. If you don't have something useful to say, do us all a favor and don't speak.

Lothiron
18-10-2006, 18:53
My guess would be because it is rather amusing to watch the constant cries of "ZOMGWTF ITS LESS VARIED NOW ZOMG!!!!1!!eleven" I personally find them rather amusing to watch.

6v6 HA for the win. A stale arena got a much needed breath of life.

defrule
18-10-2006, 19:29
Repeating another person's post from another forum.



New exciting builds have already become a new meta for 6vs6 HA. Screen from today's Broken Tower match.

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1850/gw413yy5.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gw413yy5.jpg)

Two out of three teams utilize the new innovative build... Who will prevail?

Bacon
18-10-2006, 20:23
My guess would be because it is rather amusing to watch the constant cries of "ZOMGWTF ITS LESS VARIED NOW ZOMG!!!!1!!eleven" I personally find them rather amusing to watch.


I'm sorry, but it is less varied. How many teams do you see a Melandru's ranger and an apply ranger, or a/w with a smiter. Or henchway. And things like these amuse you? I'm going to say you're not a hardcore HA player.




6v6 HA for the win. A stale arena got a much needed breath of life.


Major skill balances or new maps (not simply altering a couple maps) alone would have given it a breath of life. Completely changing the way HA is played made it worse.

Xunlai Agent
20-10-2006, 19:39
Let's get over it and deal with it, kk?

Nurse With Wound
21-10-2006, 02:34
Let's get over it and deal with it, kk?

Why dont you just go back to pve, and stop trying to tell me what to do.

Ace Bear
21-10-2006, 03:37
Why do people feel the need to make this sort of insipid commentary? Condescension is not an attractive quality in a person in any sense. If you don't have something useful to say, do us all a favor and don't speak.
But in a way he is right. If all the good HA players left then yes the skill level would go down(but not a huge amount or for a very long time because people can learn, all of the "noobs" aren't retarded). So it stands to reason that if HA truly has gone down in skill alot of the old better HA players left. But the I still high ranked guilds HAing it up all the time and I still see a decent number of higher ranked groups around. I also see plenty of the average groups floating around guild groups or otherwise. The way he said it wasn't needed but his meaning for the most part is true in my opinion.

Bacon
21-10-2006, 04:16
Let's get over it and deal with it, kk?

No. How can you say that when they totally screw over HA.

David Holtzman
21-10-2006, 05:30
But in a way he is right.

Actually, no, he wasn't.


If all the good HA players left then yes the skill level would go down(but not a huge amount or for a very long time because people can learn, all of the "noobs" aren't retarded).

It seems highly unlikely to me that the skill level would return to where it was given any reasonable timeframe. It took the very best players over a year to get to where the gameplay standards were in top 8v8 HA. Considering the vast majority of the best players no longer play in HA, I estimate it would take a great deal longer. Far longer than the piddling few weeks we've had so far, and quite likely longer than another full year.

ZiegDivine
22-10-2006, 00:06
It's really sad to be in HoH and know most of the people there, know what they are running ... after only a few months in HA. Skill level and amount of good players HAS gone down, no matter what a PvE poll shows.

Bacon
24-10-2006, 03:51
It seems highly unlikely to me that the skill level would return to where it was given any reasonable timeframe. It took the very best players over a year to get to where the gameplay standards were in top 8v8 HA. Considering the vast majority of the best players no longer play in HA, I estimate it would take a great deal longer. Far longer than the piddling few weeks we've had so far, and quite likely longer than another full year.

The skill level will never return to what it used to be. Guild Wars simply won't last long enough for that to happen. There's no more originality like there used to be, and these changes are just making it worse. The ID districts are almost as bad as the American districts now.

David Holtzman
24-10-2006, 06:21
The skill level will never return to what it used to be.

Nonsense. Neither of us has the information to make that sort of assessment. However unlikely you may consider it, I see no particular reason that HA lacks the capacity to return to the skill level it had.


The ID districts are almost as bad as the American districts now.

And have been for over 9 months. This is neither new nor remarkable nor of any relevance here.

Xpiher
24-10-2006, 06:48
Nonsense. Neither of us has the information to make that sort of assessment. However unlikely you may consider it, I see no particular reason that HA lacks the capacity to return to the skill level it had.



And have been for over 9 months. This is neither new nor remarkable nor of any relevance here.

IMO HA skill lvl has gone down. This is due to the simplicity of making a viable 6 man team. Spikes are more powerful, and pressure condition builds work better (not talking about Vim/I way). Look at Starburst for instance. When its played correctly, it can win the halls. Also, Dervish rushes will be insane now, assuming they don't get nurffed hardcore. Even if they do, throw in a smiter and GG. But, the skill lvl is increasing. There are more "balanced" teams in HA now and its still quickly teaching people how to PvP. The LvL of skill in HA started to go down before 6v6 was introduced. The FOTM were just to easy to run and get fame, while the "balanced" builds that work could take hrs to put together. In a sense, making HA the 6v6 from it is today took some of the grind out of getting fame, which IMO isn't that bad.

David Holtzman
24-10-2006, 21:24
IMO HA skill lvl has gone down.

Indeed, which is why I said, "It seems highly unlikely to me that the skill level would return to where it was given any reasonable timeframe.". I was merely pointing out that while given a reasonable timeframe it was unlikely, that by no means implies that such an even can never occur. It just probably won't occur now or in the near future.


The FOTM were just to easy to run and get fame, while the "balanced" builds that work could take hrs to put together. In a sense, making HA the 6v6 from it is today took some of the grind out of getting fame, which IMO isn't that bad.

Before I address this issue, I'd like to make sure we're on the same page. So if you could, please define for me what you mean when you say "balanced" and why this is a good thing. Further, how people playing balanced changes the "grind" aspect considering that the fame count per rank is precisely the same as it was previously.

Frozen Corpse
25-10-2006, 05:16
I love 6v6 tombs.

I just hope my guild doesn't find this post >.>

Ranger Nietzsche
25-10-2006, 19:26
Found you frozen.

But we in 치 The Spearmen 치 are aware of your preference anyway. you PUG whore.

^^

Xpiher
25-10-2006, 20:14
Indeed, which is why I said, "It seems highly unlikely to me that the skill level would return to where it was given any reasonable timeframe.". I was merely pointing out that while given a reasonable timeframe it was unlikely, that by no means implies that such an even can never occur. It just probably won't occur now or in the near future.



Before I address this issue, I'd like to make sure we're on the same page. So if you could, please define for me what you mean when you say "balanced" and why this is a good thing. Further, how people playing balanced changes the "grind" aspect considering that the fame count per rank is precisely the same as it was previously.

Balanced builds are builds that have a combination of offense and defense are not themed, or centered around 1 class or skill. For instance: 2 Warriors (ax hammer), 2 E-surge mesmer, a E/Mo, 1 utility, 2 monks would be a balanced team in GvG. These builds, when ran correctly, tend to do better at holding and winning halls than FOTMs. When ANET changed HA to 6v6 it took away some of the viability of using balanced builds and made it even easier to from FOTM teams because you need less people.

What I mean by grind is the massive amount of time it takes the average player to form a group when not using a FOTM and usually the only non FOTM builds are Balanced Builds. Furthermore, ANET perpetuated the elitist attitude of rank = skill when they hosted the double fame weekend. While by in large the better half of the PvP community knows this isn't correct, the majority of PvPers do believe this. Thus, being under rank 3 makes it even harder to find decent teams, regardless of the real skill of the player. Even being under rank 6 now makes it hard to find a decent group. Since the amount of time used to find teams that actually win is substantially high, the grind factor is also high. Thats what I mean by grind