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Bozo69PD
23-10-2006, 03:26
alot of people have been saying meh to order of undeath because the amount of healing involved to keep it up (and yourself) but what if you just used vampiric minions? What dmg they deal leeches back to you, so you would be getting 15 life every time 1 hits.

Masoj Hunett
23-10-2006, 04:10
yea...have you tried making an army of vamps??? VERY hard to do since they cost 25e and have a recharge of 15 seconds. Besides 5 sec is like 1 or 2 attacks, not much.

Kael Deathreaver
23-10-2006, 20:06
you could use arcane theivery to take aotl from a hero and then the healing will be really easy, or just get a good monk ;-)

Nekretaal
23-10-2006, 20:22
Order of Undeath stinks.

With a small number of minions, you get a lousy increase in damage for a big cost (energy & sacrifice), with a large number of minions, you get a big burst of damage, but cant a 10-fiend necromancer essentially obliterate anything anyways without any help? (if you cant obliterate anything with a 10 fiend army then death magic is pointless)

SO to get a damage boost that you dont need, you give up a skills lot and the extra sacrifice makes you the target of enemy aggro. What's the point?

Chthon
23-10-2006, 20:24
[edit: server refused to post my previous attempt]


yea...have you tried making an army of vamps??? VERY hard to do since they cost 25e and have a recharge of 15 seconds. Besides 5 sec is like 1 or 2 attacks, not much.

An army of 4 or 5 vamp horrors and 5 or 6 fiends isn't hard to maintain though, and it should work.

If we assume that, on average, each minion is going to be halfway through an attack cycle when OoU is actived, horrors will land 2 attacks during its duration and fiends will land 3.

With a 5/5 army, that's 10 vamp attacks and 15 fiend attacks. With a 4/6 army that's 8/18.

At < 425 life, the extra 17 leeched by a vampiric horror will cover both the 2% sac for its own attack and the 2% sac for one attack by another minion.

That leaves the total sac at 20% for a 5/5 army and 30% for a 4/6 army -- and that's probably affordable.

As for it being "not much," a 5/5 army will average 425 armor-ignoring damage in 5 seconds, and a 4/6 army will average 442. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any skill that can match that.

Bozo69PD
24-10-2006, 00:09
yeah thats what I'm talking about, also, since your saccing anyways if ur 16 soul reaping the 25 energy of vampiric minions isnt much since they will be annihilating. Hrm, if only I didn't have to wait 5 more days to try it.

MaximumSquid
24-10-2006, 00:28
*Cough*

http://www.knights-templar.com/images/Skill%20Icons/n_dark-aura.jpg

Zaxares
25-10-2006, 09:07
Question. Does Order of Undeath affect other allied necromancers' minions? Or just your own?

Archenine Paranoia
25-10-2006, 09:24
*Cough*

http://www.knights-templar.com/images/Skill%20Icons/n_dark-aura.jpg

Assuming you are running it with 10 fiends, it'll be 2 attacks in 5 seconds each. That's 20 attacks, which is 40% health, +10% for casting, so half your health.. If you are also running Dark Aura, you lose a further ~350 health. It's safe to say that you need a second Necro to be taking that kind of damage, and you'd also need your first MM to be in the thick of combat for it to work.

I don't think it's going to become a usable build as it stands.

Archenine Paranoia
25-10-2006, 09:25
Question. Does Order of Undeath affect other allied necromancers' minions? Or just your own?

It states YOUR minions, unfortunately. Else you could do a nice combo of W/N with Order of Undeath / Dark Aura, and get your monk to Healing Seed you. Insta-gib everything near to your location. Unfortunately, only the MM will cause the huge damage, and he doesn't want to be anywhere near that when he's going to lose 50% life alone from Order of Undeath.

NME
25-10-2006, 21:01
Well, part way into it use Tast of Death on a minion and you are healed, or use Heal Area.

ccrazool
25-10-2006, 22:19
I tested OoU as it existed in the beta; the damage output was noticable, the health sacrifice was negligible.

OoU doesn't suck. Of course, I use AotL anyway and I don't see myself switching.

Kyshen
26-10-2006, 10:14
the Problem I see with using Vamps is the Recharge.. 15 seconds for a minion isn't nice. when you can just have a 5 second recharge on a fiend.. keep summoning them and casting taste of death to heal yourself at the expense at one of your minions.

incidently, in one of my previous threads we discussed how Dark aura doesn't work to give almost Machine gun-esque AOE dark damage with OoU, but how about dark bond? would that help redirect the damage back to the minions?
(ooh.. can you feel the karma? :P)

BlueHeaven
26-10-2006, 22:34
Can't you pair this with Dark Bond and then only take 25% of the Sac cost?

manveruppd
31-10-2006, 01:19
*Cough*

http://www.knights-templar.com/images/Skill%20Icons/n_dark-aura.jpg
I LOL'ed! :D

Azrael STX
31-10-2006, 02:31
Assuming you are running it with 10 fiends, it'll be 2 attacks in 5 seconds each. That's 20 attacks, which is 40% health, +10% for casting, so half your health.. If you are also running Dark Aura, you lose a further ~350 health. It's safe to say that you need a second Necro to be taking that kind of damage, and you'd also need your first MM to be in the thick of combat for it to work.

I don't think it's going to become a usable build as it stands.
But if there was a way to keep yourself alive, you could pretty much kill anything instantly. I like the idea, myself.

Arutima
31-10-2006, 03:19
use olias#master of whispers as your MM and go for

105 hp order gear, and you can keep order of undeath up almost all the time

halfthought
31-10-2006, 03:35
Order of Undeath stinks.

With a small number of minions, you get a lousy increase in damage for a big cost (energy & sacrifice), with a large number of minions, you get a big burst of damage, but cant a 10-fiend necromancer essentially obliterate anything anyways without any help? (if you cant obliterate anything with a 10 fiend army then death magic is pointless)

SO to get a damage boost that you dont need, you give up a skills lot and the extra sacrifice makes you the target of enemy aggro. What's the point?


um, no it doesnt, with 10 minions, it give you a WHOPPING damage increase, and with reliable self heal, such as heal area, you can get back sac intantly. a +17 damage with all fiends give you a WHOPPING 340 damage increase, that is INSANE. one use sacs 30% of your health, a bit less the bip. of course keeping it up is suicidal, but casting it with 5 seconds itnervals can be kept up with an INSANE damage increase, a effective 170 dps boos

Banito
31-10-2006, 20:01
Whats wrong with getting a monk to heal you?

halfthought
02-11-2006, 02:20
^
thats like saying
whats wrong if I tank with my assasin, the monk can heal me :tongue:

NTsan
02-11-2006, 10:08
It would be better for player to play as the 105HP build.. self PS FTW
Or if you really like to micro-manage your hero then that's fine